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Are friendships with Americans real and long-lasting?

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby keius » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:05 am

Winston wrote:I strongly disagree. It is NOT exactly the same in the US as in other countries. If it were, why would you be here? It is not utter BS that people bond easier in other countries. Who are you to judge other people's friendships or relationships? THEY are the ones in the position to judge. So if they say that they bonded better with people in other countries, then it's true for them at least (even if it's not true for you).

And many here claim just that. What country are you referring to when you say that it is worse than in America? What country is more cliquish than in America?

I am not saying that it is easy to make long lasting friends through thick and thin who will always be there for you. I'm saying that it's easier to find hang out friends and socialize with people in other countries. Whether they are your "real friends" or not, at least communicating with them is a much more natural process and feels much more down to earth and normal/natural. It's not as awkward as it is in California, that's for sure. That's what I'm talking about, and the primary demonstratable difference.


My comparison is based on what i view as 'true' friendship where a pal will go through thick and thin for you VERSUS casual friendship.
Certain environments will foster more trust when it does happen. Other environments will never foster that trust.
China is worse than America when it comes to 'real' friendship. Lifelong friends can stab you in the back with the lamest incentives. I've seen so much
of this, it's ridiculous. Most Chinese won't even trust their own family. I've seen so much family backstabbing, i think i can even say that it's a common thing.
In general, i think when your in an area where the people have a harder life, and struggle more,
it sometimes creates that kind of "everyone for himself" mentality. How bad is the PH when it comes to fostering that kind of trust?
Who do you trust implicitly with your life in the PH?

Casual friendship is a different thing altogether. I agree with you that America is about as bad as it gets. Socializing(guy+girl socializing) in America is a dead past time. Hell, you can't even do it in bars anymore
unless your just there to hit on girls and get dumped on. American "clubs" are a social deadzone no matter what people say. I agree that if i wanted casual friendship, starting up conversations, building circles
to do shit with, then yeah, America is the last place you want to be. So yes, when it comes to the casual convo out of the blue or spontaneous socializing, just about anywheres better than America.

FYI though, there is an exception. There are places in the states where you can bond with 'casual' friendship. These tend to be different kind of clubs. And these will usually be centered around specific kinds of activities.
I joined a Tennis association at one point, and build a casual circle of friends very easily. Those guys liked doing things such as boozing, other sports, physical activities such as white water rafting, skydiving, etc.
Did i trust them that much? Not particularly. But that's what i consider casual friendship/acquantances.
That lasted...until i got married :? That was more of a single boys type club. I would think that others could find social friendships such as this in other kinds of special interest clubs....like track racing, etc.
When everyone has the same interests, it's fairly easy to socialize. I just recently got invited to join a mountain biking group of guys and gals. This group is mostly married folks like myself.

Still, like we've all mentioned a billion times, finding a social avenue for openly shmoozing with the opposite sex is pretty much null in the States.
keius
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Postby Rock » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:16 pm

Winston wrote:
keius wrote:Honestly, truly long lasting, trusting friendships are really really hard to come by.
In no way is this limited to just America. The fact is, people are people.
Physical distance can and does destroy friendships just as easily as relationships with the opposite sex. People do change when they go through the different stages of life. Priorities change.
Some of you seem to believe that being raised in another country means friendships will be more 'bondful'. That's utter BS.
I've seen enough different cultures to know that a close friend can easily stab you in the back with the right provocation or reason. There are countries where it's way worse than in America.


I strongly disagree. It is NOT exactly the same in the US as in other countries. If it were, why would you be here? It is not utter BS that people bond easier in other countries. Who are you to judge other people's friendships or relationships? THEY are the ones in the position to judge. So if they say that they bonded better with people in other countries, then it's true for them at least (even if it's not true for you).

And many here claim just that. What country are you referring to when you say that it is worse than in America? What country is more cliquish than in America?

I am not saying that it is easy to make long lasting friends through thick and thin who will always be there for you. I'm saying that it's easier to find hang out friends and socialize with people in other countries. Whether they are your "real friends" or not, at least communicating with them is a much more natural process and feels much more down to earth and normal/natural. It's not as awkward as it is in California, that's for sure. That's what I'm talking about, and the primary demonstratable difference.


"Honestly, truly long lasting, trusting friendships are really really hard to come by." Very very true in my case of having lived in several countries abroad. Friendships tend to be based on a mutual need / mutual benefit scenario. In today's world, people move and change jobs often, marry, have kids, divorce, remarry, etc. People grow apart as quickly as they grow together. I had some great friendships with classmates and colleagues from around the world in my school and work. I've lost touch with about everyone by now though. During my travels, I made some close friends. But some of them have changed dramatically and are no longer the same people. Others have married and had children. There are a handful I keep in touch with. But that's more the exception than the rule, at least in my case.

If anything, the people who have made the most effort to stay in touch with me are some of the girls I knew in China and Taiwan. Believe it or not, they can become sincere long term friends, even after marriage in some cases.

In Latin America, I found many people to be super warm on the surface but perhaps least sincere for the longer term. The guys are very bad at keeping in email touch. Its easier for Americans to socialize at bars and public venues there. But I think its harder to make real friends with people there unless they too are Americans.

"It is NOT exactly the same in the US as in other countries. If it were, why would you be here?" Because I get a big dating handicap in parts of Asia and Lat Am relative to the US meaning I can get younger, better looking, and more plentiful dates and girlfriends in those places than in the US. And my preferred method of meeting girls has been cold calling in pubic areas or approaching them via online dating sites. So social environment was not a critical factor in my case. With guys, I don't think the US or even California is the worst. Some places are harder to meet guys you can talk to or relate to easily.

Also, understand, that the language gap can sometimes draw you into a false illusion of being accepted by the guys. I learned this the hard way at my first uni. During second year, I had a French exchange student as my room mate. At first, I was impressed at how friendly and inclusive the small group of French guys at the school were. But I soon learned that they were quite nasty underneath the surface, just more elegant in their presentation. My room mate would share to me what was going on in the group and I soon found out they were very false and phony, not just towards me but even amongst themselves. After a couple months, I figured out hanging with the American guys on the floor was a much more honest, enjoyable, and real type of experience.
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Postby Grunt » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:09 am

Western culture is far to competitive at even basic, and unnecessary, levels.

You can barely drive to the supermarket without having to swim through a sea of enraged men with all the maturity of a 4 year old and another sea of passive-aggressive females that think driving is less about moving from point A to point B and more about pissing off every man they can, and thus get their attention.

If we don't have even the fundamental concepts of basic civility, how can any of us possibly hope to establish any real friendships? I gave up trying more than 25 years ago and consider the issue akin to asking if man can fly by flapping his arms.

It aint never gonna happen.
How to deal with newbies that talk much but do little.

Pics or it didn't happen.

YES/NO

Cool story, bro.

Problem solved.
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Postby Winston » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:51 am

http://www.oshoquotes.net/2009/12/osho- ... riendship/

Osho Quotes on Friendship

1) Friendship is possible between equal human beings, totally free from all bondage of society, culture, civilization, only living true to their authentic nature.

2) Only individuals can relate; personalities cannot. Personalities are like shadows. They cannot meet, they cannot merge, because they don’t exist. Personalities are fake. That’s why in the whole world people are talking of love, but there is no love. They are talking of friendship, but there is no friendship — even talking of trust. But for that a tremendously powerful individuality is needed. Personalities cannot trust; they are always afraid — afraid that their reality may be exposed, may be known.

3) Friendship can turn into enmity, and enmity can become friendship. You all know — happiness can turn into sadness, and sadness can change into happiness. Although they are polar opposites, they are almost like twins, very close. Just a slight change in circumstances and one disappears …the other was just behind it. So remember the transcendent — existence belongs to the transcendental. Don’t divide it; otherwise you will be continuously tortured by the duality.

4) In this ambitious world, friendship cannot bloom, love is almost impossible, compassion cannot exist. We have created such an ugly mess, and the root is that we think that there is something to achieve.

5) A man who seeks friendship, love, companionship, out of loneliness is not going to find it. In fact, with whomsoever he will associate he will feel cheated and he will make the other feel cheated. He will feel tired and bored, and he will make the other feel tired and bored. He will feel sucked and he will make the other feel sucked, because both will be sucking on each other’s energies. And they don’t have much in the first place. Their streams are running very thin; they are like summer streams in a desertland. You cannot take any water out of them. But if you seek friendship and love and companionship out of aloneness, you are a flooded river, a river in the rains. You can share as much as you want. And the more you share, the more you will have.

6) The proverb is: A friend in need is a friend indeed. But deep down that is greed! That is not friendship, that is not love. You want to use the other as a means, and no man is a means, every man is an end unto himself. Why are you so worried about who is a real friend?

7) The real question has to be: Am I friendly to people? Do you know what friendship is? It is the highest form of love. In love, some lust is bound to be there; in friendship, all lust disappears. In friendship nothing gross remains; it becomes absolutely subtle.

8) Friendship is absolutely human. It has something for which there is no inbuilt mechanism in your biology; it is nonbiological. Hence one rises in friendship, one does not fall in friendship. It has a spiritual dimension.

9) Friendship becomes a relationship, fixed; friendliness is more flowing, more fluid. Friendship is a relationship, friendliness is a state of your being. You are simply friendly; to whom, that is not the point. If you are standing by the side of a tree you are friendly to the tree, or if you are sitting on the rock, you are friendly to the rock. To human beings, to animals, to birds, you are simply friendly. It is not something static; it is a flow, changing moment to moment.

10) Friendship is so valuable that whatsoever the consequence, remain friends even with your wife, even with your husband, and allow absolute and total freedom to each other.

11) Create more friends, and as your friendship goes deeper into different dimensions, you will find yourself becoming richer and richer; your own heights will start reaching Everest, your own depths will start reaching the Pacific.

12) EVERYBODY is your enemy! Even those who are your friends are your enemies, because they are also fighting for the first place as you are fighting. How can you be friendly? With the ego there is no possibility of friendship. Then friendship is just a mask. The real nature of life is that of the jungle: the big fish goes on eating the small fish. Even if you pretend to be friendly, that is just show, strategy, diplomacy. Nobody can be a friend here unless the ego disappears. Once the ego disappears the whole life has a quality of friendship, of love. Then you are friendly, simply friendly — and to everybody, because there is no problem. You are not trying to be the first, so you are not more a competitor. This is real dropping out.

http://oshoonline.blogspot.com/2010/02/ ... -osho.html

Q: Beloved Master,

I have many friends, but the question: who is a real friend? This always arises in my mind. Will you say something about it?

Satyam, you are asking from the wrong end. Never ask, "Who is my real friend?" Ask, "Am I a real friend to somebody?" That is the right question. Why are you worried about others - whether they are friends to you or not?

The proverb is: A friend in need is a friend indeed.But deep down that is greed! That is not friendship, that is not love. You want to use the other as a means, and no man is a means, every man is an end unto himself. Why are you so worried about who is a real friend?

A young honeymoon couple were touring Southern Florida. They stopped at a rattlesnake farm along the road. After seeing the sights they engaged in small talk with the man that handled the snakes.
"Gosh!" exclaimed the young bride, "You certainly have a dangerous job! Don't you ever get bitten by the snakes?"
"Yes, I do," answered the handler.

"Well", she insisted, "just what do you do when you are bitten by a snake?

"I always carry a razor-sharp knife in my pocket, and as soon as I am bitten I make a deep, criss-cross mark across the fang wound and then suck the poison from the wound."

"What? Ah! what would happen if you were to accidentally sit on a rattler?" persisted the bride.

"Ma'am," answered the snake handler, "that will be the day I learn who my real friends are!"

Why are you worried?

The real question has to be: Am I friendly to people? Do yo know what friendship is? It is the highest form of love. In love, some lust is bound to be there; in friendship, all lust disappears. In friendship nothing gross remains, it becomes absolutely subtle.

It is not the question of using the other, it is not even a question of needing the other, it is a question of sharing. You have too much, and you would like to share. And whosoever is ready to share your joy with you, your dance, your song, you will be grateful to him, you will feel obliged. Not that he'/she is obliged to you, not that he should be thankful to you because you have given so much to him. A friend never thinks in that way. A friend always feels grateful to those people who allow him to love them, to give them whatsoever he has got.
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