Are Asian Students Smarter? - News Reports

[Winston]

Check out this CNN report about whether Asians are smarter. It features Mission San Jose High School in Fremont, CA, the one I went to and had all those bad memories at!

[odbo]

Every Asian I have ever met was a dumb ass. And they're not called "Tiger moms", that sounds so stupid. Tigers want their young to have a strong survival instinct, not destroy it by controlling every aspect of their lives. The correct term is Nazi moms, although that's a bit harsh. The Nazi's were much more forgiving than Chinese moms.

[Winston]

I agree odbo. Aren't you glad that I'm way different than the Asians in that video about tiger moms? lol Aren't I refreshing compared to them? lol

It's sad how they attach their ego to their grades and all that materialistic career status shit. Did you see how brainwashed that daughter was? How come they never question anything? It's like all they live for is to obey, obey, obey, conform, conform, conform. Total sheep. It's sickening.

http://www.happierabroad.com/Winston_vs_Asians.pdf

[momopi]

In terms of results, Indians (from India) in the US have the highest % of college education attainment.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I think Asian Americans, by and large, value educational attainment and they study hard to that end. Yes, they tend to be smarter due to high expectations, and collaborative study habits.

I am happy to see this because Asians strike a huge blow to the notion of white supremacy.

However, as Asians become more and more "Americanized" over the generations, they lose the driven zeal. After a few generations of success, we can expect young Asian boys to be among the skaters and slackers content with the Starbucks barista career.

[ladislav]

The Asians that are allowed into the US are the cream of the crop. Same with Oz and NZ/Canada. Either the rich ones or the very smart ones. The others can't get a visa. They do not represent the cross section of the population of a typical Asian country. So, elite is imported and compared with average Joe's back home. There are some that are refugees but the percentage is small.
Live in any Asian country for some time and you will see that an Asian in America is not the same as an Asian in Asia. An Asian in Asia is about as smart as an average Joe.

[zboy1]

I think Asian Americans, by and large, value educational attainment and they study hard to that end. Yes, they tend to be smarter due to high expectations, and collaborative study habits.

I am happy to see this because Asians strike a huge blow to the notion of white supremacy.

However, as Asians become more and more "Americanized" over the generations, they lose the driven zeal. After a few generations of success, we can expect young Asian boys to be among the skaters and slackers content with the Starbucks barista career.

Yup, what you are mentioning is already happening. After two generations, Asians become as sloven and lazy as everyone else.

[Falcon]

Hmong Americans and Chinese Americans have a huge educational achievement gap, and yet they're genetically very similar. This is because the Hmong people originated from around the Yangtze River valley.

In the Central Valley of California, Hmongs, Miens, and Lao are perceived as underachievers. In some schools, they perform even worse than Hispanics on standardized tests.

[ladislav]

Hmong Americans and Chinese Americans have a huge educational achievement gap, and yet they're genetically very similar. This is because the Hmong people originated from around the Yangtze River valley.

In the Central Valley of California, Hmongs, Miens, and Lao are perceived as underachievers. In some schools, they perform even worse than Hispanics on standardized tests.

Because they were refugees who came on a refugee visa. Not the cream of the crop who had been allowed in for academic or financial reasons. So, they are the cross section of the population not the other ones.

[Rock]

I agree odbo. Aren't you glad that I'm way different than the Asians in that video about tiger moms? lol Aren't I refreshing compared to them? lol

It's sad how they attach their ego to their grades and all that materialistic career status shit. Did you see how brainwashed that daughter was? How come they never question anything? It's like all they live for is to obey, obey, obey, conform, conform, conform. Total sheep. It's sickening.

http://www.happierabroad.com/Winston_vs_Asians.pdf

Winston, you are a NE Asian parent's worst nightmare. How does your own mom and dad cope?

[Repatriate]

The Asians that are allowed into the US are the cream of the crop. Same with Oz and NZ/Canada. Either the rich ones or the very smart ones. The others can't get a visa. They do not represent the cross section of the population of a typical Asian country. So, elite is imported and compared with average Joe's back home. There are some that are refugees but the percentage is small.

I've seen other people say this but I don't believe it's true at all. If you look at the largest cross section of the U.S. asian population there are many more people that immigrated under harsh economic conditions in the 60's-70's wave who would not even meet the current requirement. I can say that out of all my relatives and asian-american friends very few (less than 1%) would be considered from the elite class. The true elite in Asian countries generally don't leave permanently..afterall why would you want to when you hold all the cards in your native country?

My father didn't even have a high school education. I'm not going to get into the particulars on why he was allowed to immigrate but it was military related. There are a LOT of asian immigrants whose names were drawn from the lottery system. They created a pool that had general criteria and pulled names. Back then the requirements were much looser than you realize. I'll ask my parents more about this next time I talk with them.

A lot of 2nd generation AA I know had parents that weren't all that well educated themselves. Also, one family member might have qualified under the stricter criteria but they usually import their whole families piecemeal over time once they gain citizenship. It's extremely easy to do this and why you see so many asian grandparents and fob types in the U.S. who don't speak a lick of english.

Currently you see a lot more wealthy asian immigrants but they aren't even true immigrants in most cases. They are wealthy expats who sock away investment money and send their kids to school in the U.S.. This didn't start happening until well in the 90's when various asian economies were booming.

[Rock]

The Asians that are allowed into the US are the cream of the crop. Same with Oz and NZ/Canada. Either the rich ones or the very smart ones. The others can't get a visa. They do not represent the cross section of the population of a typical Asian country. So, elite is imported and compared with average Joe's back home. There are some that are refugees but the percentage is small.
Live in any Asian country for some time and you will see that an Asian in America is not the same as an Asian in Asia. An Asian in Asia is about as smart as an average Joe.

I beg to differ. Asians in parts of Asia are very different than average Joes in the States. When I'm in the mood, I can often rely on taxi drivers in places like Taiwan and Singapore for interesting convo about economics, politics, religion, health, stock markets, etc. Parents and older family members of gfs I've dated are often similar. Even Winston's dad can hold his own on a broad range of topics. They are not intellectually lazy to say the least. On the other hand, Joe six-pack in the US, whether he's gentile white, black, or Hispanic, tends to be a lot narrower and often clueless about about things outside his little circle of interest. And my own college educated white collar parents, especially my mom, have little interest in broader intellectual or business related topics.

So does this mean Asians are smarter? Not necessarily. Perhaps people from some smaller countries become more internationally aware out of necessity? Its arguable. But, Asians, at least NE Asians both in the US and in Asia, score significantly higher on IQ tests than all non-Asian groups in the US outside of Jewish Americans, a tiny 1-2% sliver of the population. They also work harder at academics and secure a very disproportionately high number of places in the best US academic institutions. On the downside, they are sometimes criticized for being less creative, visionary, or leader-like. Winston likes to contrast himself with this stereotype and that's why he thinks he's so special.

Its easy to come-up with rationalizations for performance and behavioral differences between groups in the US. But if an ethnic or racial subset is properly equipped and does the right things, they can advance and succeed, both absolutely and relatively over time. Nothing speaks louder than results and performance. Gentile whites have dropped the ball and are getting their asses handed to them by the various other groups in one way or another.

[chanta76]

It's all cultural really. In South Korea, Japan , etc..etc they value education much more than the west. I don't buy into the genetics mumbo jumbo that Asians are inherently smarter. It's just that they study more but with the second generation Asian American ..they become more and more Americanize and become lazier.

[momopi]

http://www.ocreader.com/forum/viewtopic ... 112&t=1842

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"It is really hard for Westerners to understand that all Chinese mothers are like this stereotype and there should be exceptions. Of all the Chinese mothers I have met they are similar to the examples cited in WSJ.

Chinese are very similar and seldom deviate from the standard. The fusion with other cultures for the first time we will see the method of iron fist teaching is being challenged by the children's generation.

During the 60's -early 80's Chinese parents didn't have to purchase family home in the elite school districts. Their shaming of children made them top students regardless of the school's standards. These children are parents now and are much soft hearted than the hardcore foreign born mothers. Rather than being the tyrant of the family they rely on students' peer pressure of an elite school to influence their children to excel.

In Cupertino a city of 50% Chinese all local high schools implemented suicide prevention programs. The local school psychologists are aware that some Cupertino students committed suicide in college when they could not cope with disappointments.

Here is a response to WSJ from Mrs Bk:

While I agree with the lions share of Ms Chuas article, I found the last paragraph to be condescending and blatantly subjective.

This method of parenting is exacted at a price. The price is socially awkward, emotionally unavailable, kids who are more automatons than children. Kids who have no idea how to cope with conflict, failure and disappointment. All of these things are part of "life".

Most of the Asian kids I know fit within the stereotype she defines. Their mothers have the same "Dragon Lady" mentality, and nearly all of the kids lack the common sense to be able to cross the street by themselves without getting hit by a car.

While their mothers are busy protecting them, they are also hindering the child from becoming a fully functioning adult. While the kids are getting straight A's, mastering the piano and/or violin and taking all AP classes, once they get to college they are lost without their mother to do their laundry, cook their food, balance their bank accounts, deal with their class schedules or wipe own their backsides. They have no idea how to cope with social situations, networking, dating, being in charge of their own schedules and finances. .

While I agree with a lot of what she has to say, I believe that anyone who really wants to "protect" their child also wants to raise them to be productive, successful, well adjusted adults, and its the parents responsibility to prepare said child for as much of real life as is possible.

"The worth of a person is not defined by how many times one fails. Its how many times they fail, and get back up to try again."

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"Although I still carry many wounds from my parents and this style of parenting; our family have healed recently enough for me to talk about some of the abuse that I suffered as a child…

I remembered being driving to an empty rural field on the way to school as being told to pack my things and being forced to get out of the car. I don‘t remember what I did wrong; maybe I was misbehaving or doing bad in school; but I remember crying my eyes out and begging to stay…

I can not count the number of times I was beaten with numerous objects, shovels, broom stick, rulers, and chairs; down my back, legs and shoulders… almost on a weekly or daily basis…

Being threatened to be kicked out of the family, remember holding the front door post, hanging on to dear life while my dad dragged me out the door, kicking and screaming…

Having a #2 pencil stabbed into my hands for getting a math problem wrong; I still have the black (tattoo) lead marks under my skin…

Being called, stupid, an idiot and worthless from before I can remember…


It was also during my elementary years that I would start hanging out at a classmate’s house; and being shown Christ’s love in a “westerner’s home�; I also remembered the first time the mom went to hug me; and I shutter as I thought I was being beaten. Neighbors in Harbor City back in the early 80s didn’t have much, but we had each other, parents who were home at a decent hour; moms who actually baked us cookies; and took us to movies.

We were safe to roam freely the different houses, Hispanic, Black and White houses. When was the last time you saw that in Irvine? When was the last time, you actually step foot inside your neighbors home? When was the last time you kids stepped foot inside your neighbor’s home? Not Clubhouse, not sidewalk, not pocket-parks, not at a restaurant, retail center...! When was the last time you spontaneously invited a scrawny Asian boy with welt marks down his back, inside your home, baked him cookies and gave him a hug?


PS – For all you Asian parent out there let this article be a warning… If I even see any sliver signs of abuse; you can bet your sorry Dragon ass that I will F***** report you to child protective services. I also encourage every other Mandate Reporter out there to be vigilant especially in lovely Irvine!"

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"RC,
My mom used a belt, a brush, dog leash and even a telephone cord from a genuine AT&T rotary phone. My stepfathers just used their fists. While I understand the anger that drove this post, you need to stop generalizing and painting an entire race of mothers with so broad a brush. Child abuse is not institutional, nor is it ingrained in Asian women. Sadly, it is prevalent in every society. While your personal story is heartbreaking, it's not specifically Asian. People of all creeds put enormous pressure on their children to succeed in every country on the planet.

Even more sad is that the over reaction to ANY punishment has left us with generations of children who think consequences are unfair, who think punishment is abuse, and who think they are entitled to whatever they want with no effort. I know of people who have been jailed and put on probation for trying to defend themselves from their child, while the child was screaming "abuse" in front of the school... a result of being told they had to go take a test they hadn't bothered to study for over the weekend.

I would also caution against evangelical references in your posts, as most people are just going to tune out what you say based on your religious expressions. There are many ways that people seek healing, the church is but one, and I would be sad if people did not get help for their own past because they were turned off by the frequent references to religion."

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[Falcon]

Keep in mind that the vast majority of rural Chinese kids are sent out to factories in Guangdong and Jiangsu, not competitive schools in California or Massachusetts. When they don't do well in school, their parents just want them to work. On average, rural Chinese children also do poorly in academics.

What the American media is focusing on is a tiny elite that has been brain drained from Asia to concentrated regions of the US.