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For Asian Americans to discuss Asian American issues and topics.
Black women and Asian men are considered low-status in the USA. This is very obvious if you belong to one of these groups. You WILL find that people treat you differently, if you have the requisite level of self awareness. If you are a RICH Asian man or Black woman, then the sting will probably be softened somewhat. But regardless, this is the reality. American society puts Asian men and Black women near the bottom. We are almost considered somewhat defective by pop culture.
It's messed up.
Let's get together and feel alright.
believe me, I know. I've already accepted it so I don't notice it that much anymore. Since I can't really do anything about it, I'm at least trying to take a stand by not doing the whole AMBF thing and letting my hand be invisibly forced by society. I mean seriously, if I was on a date with a BF and saw a WMAF couple there is NO WAY I could be happy about that. I would feel like shit. Ironically, in order for me to take a stand (as insignificant as it is) against american society treating asian men like shit, I have to oppose black females in a way. Actually I am not too happy about that, because I understand black females have it tough as well, and also black females are usually very friendly to me, so I don't see it fit to bash them unnecessarily; its just that the way things have turned out I have to reject them as romantic partners for my own sanity, in spite of their consistent openness towards me romantically.
Are you asian btw?
I do not think, 'rootlesscosmopolitan' is a troll, his postings are authentic. He is likely a Chinese American who lost somehow contact with China mainland and has identity problems.
As far as I know the hate-slogan 'white men are stealing our women' was created by the Chinese community in SF around 2000.
Not all Asian Americans think like that. By far not all Asian Americans are of Chinese origin. You will never hear such an argument 'stealing our women' from the Japanese-Americans, you will never hear this from the Thai community, not from the Indonesians, not from the Pakistani, not from the Filipinos etc.
Thai men make even fun out of Thai women accepted by white men. Such Thai girls married to a foreigner are considered to be the trash-girls from bars, or low educated female workers from factories or farmer girls from rural provinces, who are totally unfit to find a Thai husband with a good income and family background. Thai men never accuse a white man 'to steal their women'.
Yes, Chinese women are not enough, but it is not the fault of the 'white man' that millions of females are missing in mainland China, it's all about cultural issues and wrong family policy of the Chinese Communist government.
I understand that Chinese women are not enough, but to blame the 'white man' for that because of a few international/interracial marriages is totally over the top.
By limiting your dating prospects to exclude all Black women, you are still letting yourself be controlled by societal expectations. You are still "admitting defeat" if you remain single because you feel like you shouldn't be limited to just black women (and in fact, you actually are not, even if you feel that way)--in fact, I think the douchebag aspect of our society expects you more to die alone than to date a black woman. I really think so.
Anyway if there were a Black woman who had a great personality, beautiful face, and was totally compatible with you and you spurned her due to trying to go against societal expectations, then twenty years later you were to end up alone and miserable, I think you'd kick yourself.
If you feel like dating a black woman, date her, If not, don't. I just can't wrap my head around not dating a Black woman if she were otherwise perfect for you, in some feeble attempt to stick it to the man, as it were. Who would get the last laugh? Not you.
Yes, but South Asian rather than East Asian.
Let's get together and feel alright.
once again, your response is not really relevant. Notice that I posted this thread in asian AMERICAN issues. I'm not talking about international AFWM, I'm talking about asian AMERICAN women. Thus you are opposing something which I was never even talking about in the first place. Seriously man, how many times do I have to tell you to actually read and try to understand what I've written instead of assuming I am trying to talk about something else?
I have no identity issues, but you obviously have comprehension issues.
This quote really cracked me up. You remind me of those clueless foreign guys who try to sound like an expert on the culture of a place that they have never been before. Which is actually exactly what you are. I can assure you that nearly 99.9% of asian american guys have no connection to some obscure slogan created in the chinese community in SF around 2000. I merely go by what I see in the media, what I see in real life, and what other asian americans tell me about their experiences. Those are my only sources of information regarding this topic. Not "some chinese community in SF from around 2000".
Also its funny how you're trying to play the victim here. "omg people are spreading vicious hate slogans about WMAF!!". That's so disingenuous, especially given how you always try to pretend that racism doesn't exist, yet here you are trying to pretend to be the victim of non-existent racism. Why do you want to pretend to be a victim anyways? If anyone should be a victim its me, but even I'm not trying to do that. (because its weak) I'm merely trying to start up dialogue that is predominately directed towards other asian americans. Seriously, if you are offended by what I say then don't read my thread, its that simple.
No, I understand the logic of what you are saying, its just that I think we may be at two different areas in our respective lives. For me, I do not have major romantic problems, so companionship is not an issue. At this point in time, taking a stand (in whatever way possible) for my views is more important to me than getting dates and p***y no matter who its from.
Also, I think that society actually wants asian men to hook up with black women, as opposed to just wanting us to stay single. I can recall seeing a gradual increase in the whole AMBF thing being pushed by the media compared to a few years ago. Although I might be mistaken, its just my impression thats all. Also there is plentiful interracial propaganda being directed towards all other races and sexes (WMAF, BMWF), so I would not really be surprised if AMBF is part of that agenda as well. So from my point of view (not saying that my point of view is right necessarily) I feel that by abstaining from the AMBF coupling that I am avoiding being "controlled" by society.
And also I want to clarify one thing, I don't want you to get the impression that I actually think asian men are only limited to dating black women. Obviously this is not true, both based on my own experience, as well as based upon the experiences of my other asian american friends. All I am saying is that as an asian american male I feel like society/the media is gifting white guys with asian women and also at the same time trying to make AMBF happen, so naturally I am resentful about that. If said media pressures/influence did not exist then it would be a slightly different situation with regards to AMBF. I am a strong proponent of letting things happen naturally without trying too hard to force things to happen, and IMO the whole AMBF thing seems a little bit forced so that's why I reject it.
Uh, I would consider it, but I would still probably say no. Have you checked out the tumblr I posted? I looked through a couple of pages and only one or two of the guys is dating a decent looking girl, for the rest of the couples, its obvious that the guy is dating down. I really don't think I'm missing out on anything. So yeah, I feel happier doing things my way, but hey, if you like black women then knock yourself out. I won't try to convince you otherwise.
Well at least Asian men can go the IT route and gain some socioeconomic status whereas Black American women are not as educated as Asian American in the Sciences among other professions. Accounting and RN doesn't count....until 20 to 30 percent of Black American women become IT coders/developers/architects and CTOs, then Asian Americans will have the bigger upper-hand of status than their Black American women counterparts.
Look at Indian women (South Asian), the ones whom come here work for places like HP, Dell, Microsoft, etc.
It's time to expatriate to evade your fate; it's time to expatriate before the barn door permanently closes on "US" sheep.
- Follow me on Twitter @eirizarryRNB
Please. NO pun intended to your last name by entertaining the thought of courting Black American women.
Even though Black women may treat you better, they still aren't better. You are playing Russian roulette, and you'll lose the draw. Trust [me].
Do what some Chinese men do already and get a Sub-Saharan African woman. You'd be better off; I'm telling you, guy.
The Black American women might suppress all of that Feminism just because you aren't Black, but some of them may want more than just a "purtty baby with gud hare"; they may also want your "h.oe support" (Child support is an understated representation of what it actually is!!!)
It's time to expatriate to evade your fate; it's time to expatriate before the barn door permanently closes on "US" sheep.
- Follow me on Twitter @eirizarryRNB
You are not talking about Asian American issues in general. You are talking about Chinese American issues only.
In USA only 1.2 percent of the population are Chinese Americans. Only 1 out of 5 Asian Americans is Chinese.
Maybe 4 million people only.
Many Asian Americans are bringing women from their own native country into USA for marriage as the Asian Americans by number are simply said not enough.
Why are you not doing this? Why are you not visiting your country of origin to look for a Chinese girlfriend or wife?
Of course this indicates you have identity problems.
If you are living in USA and you prefer a Chinese woman, or any other Asian woman, there is no way around but to get on an airplane - destination Asia. - Do you not understand this?
Not all Asian Americans have those problems you mentioned. Ask the Vietnamese for example. They find wives in their native country easily and bring them to USA - but China is well known for a shortage of females, so wherever you are as a Chinese man, in China, in USA, in UK etc. you will notice, there are more Chinese men than Chinese women.
You claim this shortage of Chinese women is because so many white men are marrying Chinese women, but this argument is not true. The problem is that in mainland China is a shortage of millions of women, about 30 millions or so - but this is not the fault of the white man, this is the fault of Chinese culture and Chinese Communist family policy.
You cannot say, let us talk only about Asian Americans (especially Chinese Americans) and we disregard all the Asians, who are living in China and in other Asian nations. These small groups of Asians, dispersed in USA, Canada, UK, Continental Europe, Australia etc. depend heavily of course for socializing among themselves on people living in their native countries.
You cannot expect in USA for any Chinese American man a Chinese American woman, there will be always a disparity and it will never be 1:1.
About your topic and this thread, I do not think, there is any reason to date a black woman as an Asian man in USA if you don't feel comfortable to do that. You can still find Chinese women, but within USA the chance is rather slim.
First I started this thread to stimulate dialogue on a topic which I find interesting. I find your amateur attempts at psychoanalysis both amusing and also pathetic. In reference to the bolded part above, I did not start this thread in order to talk specifically about my own personal dating issues, rather I started it to discuss a phenomena which I have been noticing lately. Therefore your suggestions are not only off topic but also irrelevant to me. How many times do I have to keep telling you this? Its impossible for you to not realize this by now. I'm beginning to suspect that you are actually a sophisticated troll.
Secondly, regarding the above quote, how about no. Where did I say I was talking about chinese american issues only? nowhere. I'm talking about asian american issues bud. I'm laughing my ass off at just how out of touch you are. Seriously I am trying to figure out how your mind works. You just pull things from out of thin air that were never originally insinuated. A quick reminder, you are a european guy living in japan trying to tell a chinese american guy how things really work in america. Right...
I will state again, this thread has nothing to do with global AFWM. Nada, absolutely nothing. I am only referring to AFWM in america. That's it, no more and no less. This is abundantly clear to anybody reading this thread, except apparently to you, who believes I am talking about global AFWM and/or chinese american issues. Neither of which I ever claimed to be discussing. Anyways, I just want to say that you just typed out a bunch of word vomit which has nothing to do with anything I said.
Dude, you need to take the chip off of your shoulder and settle down. People have been giving you constructive insight and their opinions (which you asked for) and all you have been doing is bashing them, insulting them, and being altogether obnoxious.
If you don't agree with people's input, just ignore them, or politely re-clarify.
Unlike others, I do think you are a troll who is here to insult and castigate for the purpose of amusement. If I am wrong, then it is your poor interpersonal skills that are at the root of your problems, not your status as an Asian man.
This is a forum where people will chime in where they see fit and how they see fit. If you don't agree, simply move on to the next comment and stop bashing people who deign to give you advice that you don't like.
What rootlesscosmopolitan is trying to say (akwardly) is that White males try to sound like 'experts' on the subject of minorities and racial issues--when most of them have no clue, or even an inkling, of what it is like to be a minority in society. Whites are on top of the socio-economic status, so how do you ever expect them to understand such complicated issues and to be sympathetic to the plight of Asian Americans and other minorities?
I'm sure you would agree with that, Contrarian? What's really funny is when Whites tell Blacks to "shut-up" about racism or tell Asian men to 'buck-up and stop complaining,' when Whites--as a whole--benefit from White supremacy and the current system of global dominance.
I think that's why he's upset about the posts left by some of the White posters on the forum, telling him that there are no issues in the Asian American community, and trying to sound like know-it-all's, when it comes to our community.
There's lots of anger among Asian men living in not only Western countries, but some in Asia as well; and, quite frankly, Asian men do have legitimate right to complain about things--and their place in the world. When I even hear some White and Black guys, wonder why more Asian men aren't going crazy in the world, like Cho Seung Hui, then you know there is a big (but unspoken) problem for Asian men in society.
To Yohan: I don't think you understand the dynamics of being Asian American in the United States!; And, frankly, your rebuttal to rootless was ridiculous (no offense). To say that other Asian communities in America (besides Chinese Americans) don't discuss and complain about the racial imbalance of interracial marriages of Asian men, and complain about the treatment (and portrayal) of both Asian men and women in the country, is laughable.
As for Black female/Asian male couples...I don't really see the media pushing for it; Nor do I see a problem with it--when I see such a couple. To me, it shouldn't be viewed as 'step-down' for Asian men--as there are some beautiful and feminine Black women in the world. Why do you have such a problem with it, rootless?
To be honest contrarian expatriate, I think if you are serious about what you wrote, then you need to read through this entire thread again; you will notice that when people give me serious and non-smartass replies, then I respond similarly, however when people give me smartass replies, I respond the same way back to them. There is no chip on my shoulder. Also I want to remind you that I asked for insight on the topic of discussion itself, many of the replies here have pretty much been:
"hey bro if you don't like black chicks just dont date them! you can always date abroad, dude you are way too insecure, why are you ranting???? blah blah blah blah"
As I have said before, I wish to talk about AMBF and its relevance to the (negative) media/social portrayal of asian men in america, I am not asking for people's advice for my own personal dating life. Also I want to add that many of the people that are responding to this thread, did so in bad faith. They didn't come in to debate the topic, or to even try to understand it, they came in to imply that I'm wrong and then try to smugly tell me what I should do. Do you think I'm unable to detect this? Respect is a two way street, if people disagree, but write to me in a tone that suggests that they genuinely want to facilitate discussion then I respond in kind. However many of the responses I have gotten have been passive aggressive and leaves the impression that the writer of the response wants to have the last word and is not really interested in anything I had to say. So yes, I will openly admit that my initial response to you was very acrid. I am not denying that. However you should also realize the tone of your own initial comment:
You didn't bother to address my points, you just slathered on the snark and condescendingly told me how I should do things. Remember the context of this entire situation. I posted this in the asian american issues subforum, I didn't post this in any other subforum. I wrote this post towards an asian american audience, so if you're going to comment about my post, then I highly recommend that you first try to understand my perspective and what I am saying, and only then give your input. I realize that you strongly believe in your own colorblind views and are attached to them, but they're not really appropriate in this context and don't help move the conversation along in any meaningful way. However if I had posted this thread in a completely different subforum that wasn't the asian american issues subforum then yeah, I wouldn't take as much issue with your response. Its all about context.
The root of my problems? lol, what problems? Firstly, I have repeatedly stated that this thread isn't really supposed to be about my own personal dating life, rather its meant to start dialogue on a topic that I find interesting. Secondly, the only "problem" I have is that a large percentage of black women are attracted to me, and that a relatively smaller percentage of asian and white women are attracted to me. This has nothing to do with my interpersonal skills, but yes, it has plenty to do with my status as an asian american man in society. Its kind of apparent that you still don't know what I'm talking about; however this is not surprising because you know as much about being asian american as I know about being african american. (nada, zilch) Remember, I wrote this thread towards an asian american audience.
Yup, people here can chime in where they see fit and how they see fit. Nobody ever denied this. However it works both ways. If you wish to respond to me in a certain manner, then I will respond likewise. There is nothing controversial about that, tit for tat. If you don't agree with it then you can always take your own advice and move on. Nobody is keeping you here and forcing you to respond to this thread, or to my comments. That being said, I am willing to start off on a clean slate with you and talk to you very respectfully, assuming that you also reciprocate in kind.
I am very aware that some Asian men are mega-frustrated in the United States. However, I do not consider Asian men to be monolithic and I don't like to paint them with a broad brush. Japanese, Cambodian, Korean, Chinese, Filipino, Vietnamese, etc, are all different and can have very different cultural bents.
About the white contributors on this forum, they fall into 3 groups: The very insightful (Yohan, Ladislav, etc), the well-meaning but far less insightful, and the foolish (Cornfed, etc). Smart white posters can and have open my black male eyes to many things, and the ones on the lower half stand to be ignored. Some white posters feel that race is over-emphasized in America and I tend to agree. Race is the lazy man's clue in a matter.
Personally, I am quite fond of Asian men and I see them doing well with white women when they are professionals and have that mainstream social panache. Some others seem a bit socially isolated within their ethnic domains and that is a shame.
Whatever the case with RootlessCosmopolitan, I do not wish to see him suffer from this Asian Angst which has a lot to do with them following all the social rules, working very hard to achieve, and not achieving their social or romantic due. What I say to that is do what you have to do to find personal fulfillment. Date who you choose, move where you want and cut family ties if you must. Asian parents are stereotyped as very demanding on their children and where this is true, Asian men need to cut the ties to find their fulfillment hence my advice to RC to do what he needs to do in dating regardless of others' perceptions.
I wouldn't say so much that I have a problem with it, as I said, I too have been involved in AMBF relationships in the past. I guess what I am saying is that as I get older, I begin to understand society better and better, and I understand how I, as an asian american male fit into this society. For me, I'm not asking for a lot, I just want to be able to have normal access to my own race of women. I am not asking for a blonde bombshell or anything. My expectations are very normal and very reasonable, however the way that society works is that I am largely denied access (figuratively speaking) to my own women, let alone white women, and the only consistent and easy option I have is black women. (I want to remind you that black women are at the bottom of the dating totem pole in america*) So naturally I feel resentful because of this situation. Basically I feel like society is saying:
"f**k you asian guys, you all can have what nobody else wants".
And yes, I'm aware that that sounds really messed up, but I feel its the truth. I mean hell, even a lot of black guys don't even want black women. As asian men, why is it our responsibility to take them? The situation regarding black women doesn't even have anything to do with us! Do you sort of understand where I am coming from now? This is why I generally won't date black women anymore, because I'm tired of having my dating options be dictated to me by the rest of society.** Also what I am saying could be invalidated if the majority of BF involved in AMBF looked like beyonce, but the truth is most of them do not. (if they looked like beyonce, they probably wouldn't be with an asian guy to begin with!) I think many asian bros involved in AMBF are clearly dating down in terms of looks.
Also I have noticed something that is personally relevant to you, a good number of the AM in AMBF couples I have met in real life are korean american guys. Ironically, do you know which asian ethnicity in america is most likely to have its females date/marry white guys? Koreans. (Don't get me wrong though, I'm not trying to act like I have scientific evidence here, I know what I'm saying is purely anecdotal and only based off my own observations.) So because of that, I can directly see how society not only negatively impacts asian american men as a whole, but also how more specifically it may be negatively impacting korean american men. Not saying my perspective here is necessarily correct though, I mean hell maybe a large number of korean american guys actually just like BF, but from what I have seen, I get the impression that they are settling. Anyways, just putting that out there as food for thought.
*I'm not saying that black women are at the bottom of the dating totem pole just to be a jerk, I'm just stating that to clarify my own stance. For what its worth, I'm fully aware that we asian american men are near the bottom of the totem pole as well, so its not like I'm trying to say that we're hot shit either and are entitled to "date up", I'm just saying I would be happy with a woman of my own race in america, no more and no less.
**My response has a little bit of hyperbole to make my point clearer. I know that my options aren't actually limited only to black women, and it would be delusional if I actually believed that. All I am saying is that as a general trend, as an average asian american man, it is much harder to get an asian or even a white woman, and much much easier to get a black woman. The best analogy to use is that in america trying to get an asian or white woman is like swimming against the current, while getting a black woman is like swimming with the current. Obviously there aren't as many AMBF couples in america compared to AMWF for example, but this doesn't invalidate my point though. It just means that there are many other asian guys are like me who reject BF and try to get AF or WF. The original sexual marketplace values still exist though.
Last edited by rootlesscosmopolitan on August 12th, 2014, 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.