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My thoughts on AMBF and why I am generally against it

For Asian Americans to discuss Asian American issues and topics.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby rootlesscosmopolitan » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:16 am

I am very aware that some Asian men are mega-frustrated in the United States. However, I do not consider Asian men to be monolithic and I don't like to paint them with a broad brush. Japanese, Cambodian, Korean, Chinese, Filipino, Vietnamese, etc, are all different and can have very different cultural bents.


While this is true, I think you should be careful about doing this too much. Speaking as an asian american guy, I have asian american friends from all ethnicities and we are generally more similar than we are different. In some situations its important to take into consideration the differences of the ethnic groups, but in this situation what I am saying pretty much applies to all asian american men regardless of ethnic background. In other words, yohan is pretty much incorrect with regards to the chinese american/asian american situation in america, and I wouldn't really give him too much credence in this situation, he doesn't really know what he is talking about.

About the white contributors on this forum, they fall into 3 groups: The very insightful (Yohan, Ladislav, etc), the well-meaning but far less insightful, and the foolish (Cornfed, etc). Smart white posters can and have open my black male eyes to many things, and the ones on the lower half stand to be ignored. Some white posters feel that race is over-emphasized in America and I tend to agree. Race is the lazy man's clue in a matter.


I think you give too much credit to yohan. I don't know about his insights regarding other matters, but as I have seen in this thread, he is overall pretty clueless. If you reread over his responses, most of the time he displays gaping logical errors in his thought process. Say what you will about how I say things, but at least what I'm saying makes sense and is logically coherent even though its delivery is a little rough. The same cannot be said for yohan, I'm sorry. Don't sell your own experiences short as a black guy and let white guys dictate how you should perceive things. Honestly, I can't say for sure how you and other white posters here interact, so I'll pull my punches a little bit and assume that maybe they have told you something insightful, but from what I have seen so far, some of the white posters here only try to push their own (white) perspective onto you and totally disregard your own perspective. If you read through this thread, you can see yohan repeatedly doing this, and both me and zboy1 both noticed this. While I am open minded to hearing perspectives from other races, its completely unacceptable when somebody of a different race tries to act like their perspective regarding my own experiences is correct and that my perspective regarding my own experiences is wrong. I would be highly dubious of any "insight" from yohan. He is obviously guilty of trying to run the show when it comes to how other races "should" think, and you shouldn't give up your power like that. As for racial questions, I think people that entirely over-emphasize race or entirely de-emphasize it are both lazy. A truly non-lazy person thinks of all things. Afterall it takes the most work to consider all possibilities, instead of completely relying on, or shutting out a certain possibility. In some cases race matters, in some cases race doesnt matter, its presumptive to assume it always or never matters.

Whatever the case with RootlessCosmopolitan, I do not wish to see him suffer from this Asian Angst which has a lot to do with them following all the social rules, working very hard to achieve, and not achieving their social or romantic due. What I say to that is do what you have to do to find personal fulfillment. Date who you choose, move where you want and cut family ties if you must. Asian parents are stereotyped as very demanding on their children and where this is true, Asian men need to cut the ties to find their fulfillment hence my advice to RC to do what he needs to do in dating regardless of others' perceptions.


Thanks for your kind words, but your advice is a little off the mark. I know that it seems like I'm constantly shitting on you, and its not my intention, but the truth is, a lot of what you're saying doesn't really apply to my situation. First of all, personal fulfillment is a subjective thing. It is not the same to everybody. To me, the opposite of personal fulfillment would be to opt for AMBF. If I did this then I would feel bad about myself for settling and would not feel happy internally, even though outwardly I would have a caring girlfriend. Just having a girlfriend/romantic partner no matter who she is not personal fulfillment to me. To me, that is desperation. Lastly regarding the thing about parents and cutting ties. Well, first of all, my parents don't really have anything to do with my views regarding AMBF. Secondly, I think cutting ties over a girl would be a pretty bad idea. I mean you see people doing this in movies or whatever, but in real life its a different story. Also while I said that I like black girls somewhat, I don't like them enough to do something drastic over them. Remember, I said that I prefer asian females most of all. Personal fulfillment to me is being with an asian woman. (but like I said, this thread isn't meant to talk about my personal dating life. So whatever constitutes personal fulfillment to me is a separate entity to the topic of the OP itself.)
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Postby Yohan » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:40 am

zboy1 wrote:To Yohan: I don't think you understand the dynamics of being Asian American in the United States!; And, frankly, your rebuttal to rootless was ridiculous (no offense). To say that other Asian communities in America (besides Chinese Americans) don't discuss and complain about the racial imbalance of interracial marriages of Asian men, and complain about the treatment (and portrayal) of both Asian men and women in the country, is laughable.


Thanks for your reply, and please tell me, why is this 'laughable'.

I said many times, so far nobody could prove me wrong, that race issues are exaggerated in the USA.

This poster 'rootlesscosmopolitan' ignores many other aspects (and you too obviously) which are causing a 'imbalance' and blame for all and everything only 'race'.

What about for example 'religion' - your imbalance of interracial marriages would look very much differently, if you need not to consider the refusal of marriage between Asian Christians/Buddhists and Muslims and Hindus.

You are mixing up the term 'Asian American' - Who is 'Asian American'? Also a Pakistani and Indian is an 'Asian American', but of different race than a Korean American.

About Asian Americans - they are a small group in USA, and as said by me and others, they are not monolithic - they do not stick together, but are of different race, different religion, different language, they do not always like each other etc. Why do you blame white people for that?

You complain about what exactly?

About a shortage of 'Asian American women'? As I said already, this is NOT the fault of the 'white people' or 'black people', it is because of gender imbalance cultural issues/wrong family politics in the native countries of some 'Asian Americans', especially those of India and China. In these 2 countries alone about 60 million young women are missing, this is a fact - but this is not the fault of the white people in USA.

Feminism - a major problem to socialize for men in the Western world - is also to blame for creating problems of interracial marriages. What is with that?

So tell me what is your problem exactly? Give me clear examples, and not some strange reply like 'you are laughable' etc.

I am living as a white man since almost 4 decades among Asians in Japan, Thailand, Philippines and Malaysia, how come I am not 'discriminated'? How come that others, even in my own family and their friends, who are 'American Asians' of Japanese and Indian and Malay-Chinese origin are not discriminated?

There are clearly Asian Americans, black US-people, Muslims, female immigrants etc. etc. etc. who complain, but they cannot tell me why, they merely blame others for their problems. It seems everybody in USA is complaining about everything.

However there are also others, who are doing well - what about them?
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Postby Yohan » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:20 am

rootlesscosmopolitan wrote:
I think you give too much credit to yohan. I don't know about his insights regarding other matters, but as I have seen in this thread, he is overall pretty clueless. If you reread over his responses, most of the time he displays gaping logical errors in his thought process.

A truly non-lazy person thinks of all things.


This is exactly what you are NOT doing and what is wrong with you. You are totally biased and blame only race/white people for your own shortcomings.

I gave you many points to consider, not only race regarding interracial/international relationship. For example religion. Wide parts of Asia are Muslim, wide parts of USA are not. I noticed you avoid any discussion regarding religion.

Asian Americans are not a single group - these are many small groups, not much interacting together. A Pakistani has totally different needs than a Chinese American.

Interesting also how you get reluctant when I ask you why are you not looking for female friends/wife and otherwise for a relationship from your own native country.

I am a white man from Europe in Japan, will the Japanese do what I tell them? No way, but I can live with that.

All these USA-based Asian minority groups are tiny, compared to the white population in USA. What do you expect from them?

The white population has to do what you are telling them or what? Of course if you are the tiny minority and complaining about everything, the majority will consider you as an outsider and ignore you. It's everywhere like that, not only in USA.
Last edited by Yohan on Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cornfed » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:26 am

Yohan wrote:I said many times, so far nobody could prove me wrong, that race issues are exaggerated in the USA.

Say what? The inclusion of lower quality races/species is completely ruining the West, especially America.
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Postby rootlesscosmopolitan » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:23 am

This is exactly what you are NOT doing and what is wrong with you. You are totally biased and blame only race/white people for your own shortcomings.


lol, uh no. A very very large percentage of asian women in america go with white guys. This is not "blaming" white people. This is merely stating how things actually are. Furthermore, I always blame "society" or the media. I don't believe I have outright blamed white people, because this is obviously stupid and its not actually the case. Its not white people that control the media.(but thats another topic) Its so pathetic how you are whining and acting like I am oppressing you or whatever. Seriously, get over yourself.

I gave you many points to consider, not only race regarding interracial/international relationship. For example religion. Wide parts of Asia are Muslim, wide parts of USA are not. I noticed you avoid any discussion regarding religion.


religion actually doesn't play that big a deal in dating dynamics in america. If you lived in america yourself and had any experience, then you would know that. Also like I will repeat myself for the 3rd? 4th? 5th? time, I am not talking about international relationships. I was only referring to AFWM in america alone.

Asian Americans are not a single group - these are many small groups, not much interacting together. A Pakistani has totally different needs than a Chinese American.


When discussing social trends, it is appropriate to group asian americans together. I say this as an asian american who has a lifetime experiencing of being asian in america. My group of friends has asians from all different groups, and this reflects what I see with other groups of asian americans as well. Contrary to what you may believe, large numbers of asian americans mingle with other groups of asian americans (regardless of ethnicity). You are once again talking out your ass about something which you know nothing about. Secondly in america, a pakistani is not really considered asian american. That's more of a UK, european? thing. If you knew anything about what its like in american then you would already know that, but you don't. Once again you are talking out your ass about something which you know nothing about.

I am a white man from Europe in Japan, will the Japanese do what I tell them? No way, but I can live with that.


whats scary is that you imply that you think you have a right in the first place to tell japanese what they should do. If I was in japan, I wouldn't think to tell them what they should do, or how they should think. Apparently you think its appropriate to do that though.

Interesting also how you get reluctant when I ask you why are you not looking for female friends/wife and otherwise for a relationship from your own native country.


As I've repeatedly stated, I posted this thread to air my ideas about a general trend that I have noticed. I did not post this thread to get advice for my own personal dating life. Hence why I posted this in the subforum asian american issues. That's why talking about getting a lover/wife from my own country is not really relevant to this thread.

All these USA-based Asian minority groups are tiny, compared to the white population in USA. What do you expect from them?


I never blamed the white population in america, I blamed society overall as well as the media pushing a certain agenda which is adversely affecting asian american males. You are barking up the wrong tree.

The white population has to do what you are telling them or what? Of course if you are the tiny minority and complaining about everything, the majority will consider you as an outsider and ignore you. It's everywhere like that, not only in USA.


Who said I was telling the white population to do anything? Any reasonable person reading what I wrote would not get that idea. Additionally I wrote this in the asian american issues forum, and intended for it to be read by an asian american audience. I'm not making any demands to the white population at all. If I wrote this in the general forum then what you say might make some small bit of sense, but as it stands given the present context, your argument doesn't really hold up.

Give it up buddy, you seem to be a little bit unbalanced, I mean honestly your thinking is all messed up.
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Postby WindowLicker » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:25 am

Yohan: You have some pretty strong and insistent opinions about what's wrong with the USA, and how the USA should be.

Have you ever actually lived here; or are you one more European throwing stones from a convenient distance, and doing so based on second-hand information about a foreign culture that you yourself don't understand?
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Postby Cornfed » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:29 am

WindowLicker wrote:Yohan: You have some pretty strong and insistent opinions about what's wrong with the USA, and how the USA should be.

Have you ever actually lived here; or are you one more European throwing stones from a convenient distance, and doing so based on second-hand information about a foreign culture that you yourself don't understand?

Even that would be strange, since the darkies are ruining Europe as well. If you ask someone from Europe what their country is like, a lot of the time they will say it would be great were in not for the f***ing immigrants.
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Postby WindowLicker » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:39 am

Cornfed wrote:
WindowLicker wrote:Yohan: You have some pretty strong and insistent opinions about what's wrong with the USA, and how the USA should be.

Have you ever actually lived here; or are you one more European throwing stones from a convenient distance, and doing so based on second-hand information about a foreign culture that you yourself don't understand?

Even that would be strange, since the darkies are ruining Europe as well. If you ask someone from Europe what their country is like, a lot of the time they will say it would be great were in not for the f***ing immigrants.


The French and Spaniards in particular, seem to be approaching a flashpoint with the Algerian/Moroccan/Dominican invasion. Greece with Golden Dawn, too. The biggest prog delusionals seem to be the Germans, Swedes and Brits. Interesting how that's playing out.
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Postby Yohan » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:08 am

rootlesscosmopolitan wrote:
.....religion actually doesn't play that big a deal in dating dynamics in america.

.....You are once again talking out your a** about something which you know nothing about.

..... in america, a pakistani is not really considered asian american. That's more of a UK, european? thing. If you knew anything about what its like in american then you would already know that, but you don't. Once again you are talking out your a** about something which you know nothing about.

Give it up buddy, you seem to be a little bit unbalanced, I mean honestly your thinking is all messed up.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistani_American

Pakistani Americans are currently classified as Asian Americans by the United States Census Bureau. Ethnically, they fit the definition of South Asian American.

During the US segregation of the 1960s, Pakistanis (along with other Asians) were deemed as 'colored people'.


It seems, you do not even know who is an 'Asian American' and who is not.

It is also my first time I hear that Islam does not play any role in USA. Pakistani Americans (and other Muslim immigrants too) are a fast growing minority in USA.

Between 1947 and 1965, only 2,500 Pakistani immigrants entered the United States;
By 1990, the U.S. Census bureau indicated that there were about 100,000 Pakistani Americans in the United States and by 2005 their population had grown to 210,000


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_American

As of 2012, Asian Americans had the highest educational attainment level and median household income of any racial demographic in the country, and in 2008 they had the highest median personal income overall of any racial demographic


You are Asian American, right?
Again, about what are you complaining?
Last edited by Yohan on Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rootlesscosmopolitan » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:24 am

Yohan wrote:
rootlesscosmopolitan wrote:
.....religion actually doesn't play that big a deal in dating dynamics in america.

.....You are once again talking out your a** about something which you know nothing about.

..... in america, a pakistani is not really considered asian american. That's more of a UK, european? thing. If you knew anything about what its like in american then you would already know that, but you don't. Once again you are talking out your a** about something which you know nothing about.

Give it up buddy, you seem to be a little bit unbalanced, I mean honestly your thinking is all messed up.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistani_American

Pakistani Americans are currently classified as Asian Americans by the United States Census Bureau. Ethnically, they fit the definition of South Asian American.

During the US segregation of the 1960s, Pakistanis (along with other Asians) were deemed as 'colored people'.


It seems, you do not even know who is an 'Asian American' and who is not.


And this is the crux of why I accuse you of not knowing what you are talking about. Yes, in a legalistic sense, pakistani people are considered "asian americans", however in common parlance when talking about social issues in america, the term "asian americans" really only refers to east asians, and asians from some certain southeast asian countries. This is generally understood by all americans. Again, this is one of those things that you would have to actually live in america to realize. You don't, so I maintain my original assertion that you are talking out your ass.


It is also my first time I hear that Islam does not play any role in USA, and Pakistani Americans (and other Muslim immigrants too) are a fast growing minority in USA.

Between 1947 and 1965, only 2,500 Pakistani immigrants entered the United States;
By 1990, the U.S. Census bureau indicated that there were about 100,000 Pakistani Americans in the United States and by 2005 their population had grown to 210,000


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_American


uh yeah, and as I stated, as of now in the year 2014 religion doesn't matter as much in america when it comes to dating. Could that change in the future? Maybe. But in the context of now, as in the year 2014, religion doesn't really matter when it comes to dating in america. Most, if not all americans will tell you that, so your quip about religion mattering so much in america doesn't really hold water.

As of 2012, Asian Americans had the highest educational attainment level and median household income of any racial demographic in the country, and in 2008 they had the highest median personal income overall of any racial demographic.


You are Asian American, right?
Again, about what are you complaining?
[/quote]

Obviously at this point you are grasping at straws. Yes I am asian american, and yes asian americans generally have the highest educational attainment level and median household incomes, but so what? What relevance does that have to this topic? Haven't you ever heard the old saying, "money isn't everything"? You're basically saying that asian americans are rich and educated so they have nothing to complain about. Wow...that's a pretty bold and sweeping statement. No comment enlightened one, you have shown me the way :D
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Postby Yohan » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:43 am

rootlesscosmopolitan wrote:And this is the crux of why I accuse you of not knowing what you are talking about. Yes, in a legalistic sense, pakistani people are considered "asian americans", however in common parlance when talking about social issues in america, the term "asian americans" really only refers to east asians, and asians from some certain southeast asian countries.


If the Pakistani American is not an 'Asian American', what else might they be? There is no question about that Pakistan is located in Asia.

uh yeah, and as I stated, as of now in the year 2014 religion doesn't matter as much in america when it comes to dating.


Even Pres. Bush considered himself inspired by God, and USA is full with any kind of Christian believers, not only Catholics, but also LDS, Jehovah and so on and so on. Yes, for sure religion plays a major role in USA. Check out anti-abortion activists for example. Nobody can deny that USA is the largest Christianity orientated country in this world. US-missionaries converted large groups of people in South Korea and Vietnam to Christianity during US-military activity in the past. (Korean war, Vietnam war).

As of 2012, Asian Americans had the highest educational attainment level and median household income of any racial demographic in the country, and in 2008 they had the highest median personal income overall of any racial demographic.


Obviously at this point you are grasping at straws. Yes I am asian american, and yes asian americans generally have the highest educational attainment level and median household incomes, but so what? What relevance does that have to this topic? Haven't you ever heard the old saying, "money isn't everything"?


While money is 'not everything', you cannot deny it makes your daily life much easier, especially in countries like USA which are more based on capitalism than on anything else.

What really heavily counts for a male dating women in USA (and anywhere else in this world) is your wallet and not your race.
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Postby WindowLicker » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:03 am

Yohan wrote:
rootlesscosmopolitan wrote:And this is the crux of why I accuse you of not knowing what you are talking about. Yes, in a legalistic sense, pakistani people are considered "asian americans", however in common parlance when talking about social issues in america, the term "asian americans" really only refers to east asians, and asians from some certain southeast asian countries.


If the Pakistani American is not an 'Asian American', what else might they be? There is no question about that Pakistan is located in Asia.

uh yeah, and as I stated, as of now in the year 2014 religion doesn't matter as much in america when it comes to dating.


Even Pres. Bush considered himself inspired by God, and USA is full with any kind of Christian believers, not only Catholics, but also LDS, Jehovah and so on and so on. Yes, for sure religion plays a major role in USA. Check out anti-abortion activists for example. Nobody can deny that USA is the largest Christianity orientated country in this world. US-missionaries converted large groups of people in South Korea and Vietnam to Christianity during US-military activity in the past. (Korean war, Vietnam war).

As of 2012, Asian Americans had the highest educational attainment level and median household income of any racial demographic in the country, and in 2008 they had the highest median personal income overall of any racial demographic.


Obviously at this point you are grasping at straws. Yes I am asian american, and yes asian americans generally have the highest educational attainment level and median household incomes, but so what? What relevance does that have to this topic? Haven't you ever heard the old saying, "money isn't everything"?


While money is 'not everything', you cannot deny it makes your daily life much easier, especially in countries like USA which are more based on capitalism than on anything else.

What really heavily counts for a male dating women in USA (and anywhere else in this world) is your wallet and not your race.



If you won't verify whether or not you've even spent significant time living firsthand in the country about which you have such an endless stream of opinions and criticisms, we'll continue to treat you as a troll.
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Postby E Irizarry R&B Singer » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:30 am

WindowLicker wrote:
Yohan wrote:
rootlesscosmopolitan wrote:And this is the crux of why I accuse you of not knowing what you are talking about. Yes, in a legalistic sense, pakistani people are considered "asian americans", however in common parlance when talking about social issues in america, the term "asian americans" really only refers to east asians, and asians from some certain southeast asian countries.


If the Pakistani American is not an 'Asian American', what else might they be? There is no question about that Pakistan is located in Asia.

uh yeah, and as I stated, as of now in the year 2014 religion doesn't matter as much in america when it comes to dating.


Even Pres. Bush considered himself inspired by God, and USA is full with any kind of Christian believers, not only Catholics, but also LDS, Jehovah and so on and so on. Yes, for sure religion plays a major role in USA. Check out anti-abortion activists for example. Nobody can deny that USA is the largest Christianity orientated country in this world. US-missionaries converted large groups of people in South Korea and Vietnam to Christianity during US-military activity in the past. (Korean war, Vietnam war).

As of 2012, Asian Americans had the highest educational attainment level and median household income of any racial demographic in the country, and in 2008 they had the highest median personal income overall of any racial demographic.


Obviously at this point you are grasping at straws. Yes I am asian american, and yes asian americans generally have the highest educational attainment level and median household incomes, but so what? What relevance does that have to this topic? Haven't you ever heard the old saying, "money isn't everything"?


While money is 'not everything', you cannot deny it makes your daily life much easier, especially in countries like USA which are more based on capitalism than on anything else.

What really heavily counts for a male dating women in USA (and anywhere else in this world) is your wallet and not your race.



If you won't verify whether or not you've even spent significant time living firsthand in the country about which you have such an endless stream of opinions and criticisms, we'll continue to treat you as a troll.


Who in the world are you to deem somebody to be a troll when you are a noob? The pomposity of it all.
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Postby Cornfed » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:35 am

Yohan wrote:What really heavily counts for a male dating women in USA (and anywhere else in this world) is your wallet and not your race.

Of course super rich people can get plenty of tail, but if you mean that among regular men the amount of sex they get is directly proportional to their income, then clearly this is not true.
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Postby Yohan » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:44 am

WindowLicker wrote:If you won't verify whether or not you've even spent significant time living firsthand in the country about which you have such an endless stream of opinions and criticisms, we'll continue to treat you as a troll.


Your posting is indeed trolling, as you cannot answer questions and ignore facts.

It is a fact, that Asian Americans are doing financially well in USA, they even have a higher income than white people, do you deny that?
What else do you expect from your 'American Dream'?

Most Asian Americans do have a higher living standard in USA than they would enjoy in their own native country, do you deny that, too?

Compare life in mainland China to life of Chinese-Americans in USA, or daily life in Bangladesh to those immigrant workers in USA etc.

About myself, as I am white, I do not have such an endless stream of opinions and criticism - what criticism? USA/Canada was not only fine for me a while ago, but it is also fine now for all members of my extended family (Asian American son-in-law, his brother, his mother, his father) and all my friends who are Asian Americans (Chinese from Malaysia/Thailand) who are living in Canada/USA (Hawaii, SF, Vancouver). I also know personally Indian Americans and Filipino-Americans. They all want to stay in USA, while in their own countries plenty of people are lining up at the US-embassy every day asking for visa.

Life in USA is not that bad as you claim it to be.

Have you ever been anywhere else beyond the borders of the USA/Canada? I don't think so.

BTW, the US-president is not white and he got even the Peace Nobel Prize because of that despite bombing out countries far away from USA every day.

What shall USA do for you? What do you expect from USA? What are you missing in USA?
Unfortunately for you the large majority of US-citizens is white, you will have to live with that if you like it or not.

If you don't want to accept to live among a huge white majority population, it is up to you as an Asian-American to leave and to resettle in your own country of origin or elsewhere in this world.

It seems however, most Asian-Americans do not want to go back, but prefer to live in USA.

The Japanese government accepts any person of proven Japanese roots regardless the present citizenship, the Philippines and Thailand are doing the same, Vietnam also, Cambodia also. Why do you stay in USA if you feel so discriminated?

What is true about USA and what I do not deny, is that the dating scene is totally broken. I blame feminism for that and not the fact that the huge majority of USA has a white population.
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