For Asian Americans to discuss Asian American issues and topics.
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http://www.ocreader.com/forum/viewtopic ... 156&t=1713
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:45 am
ADL (Asian Dragon Ladies)
http://www.ocregister.com/news/new-2692 ... -chen.html
Not sure where to post this, but I promised myself that I'll start this thread the next time I read another article of a middle age Asian OC (Irvine) female who commited another white collar fraud. I don't have time to look through the countless articles but this must be at least the 5th conviction this year; they all seem to have these common themes:
1) They are middle age white collar professionals - attorneys, CPAs, business owners
2) Their accomplices are their Caucusian professional husband; who are now divorced, seperated or estranged
3) Other accomplices have fled the country
4) They are from China, Vietman, Taiwan
This hypothesis I'm going to label the ADL sydrom of Asiandom... I might require the help of BK here, but this is first hand experience...
The ADL are aggresive, ambitius A-type driven professionals with very litle character and emotional growth; greed, money, material possessions are their main goal in life. They might have trouble, absusive pasts or might just grew up with very little responsibilities, or boundaries. They might come from priviledge families and have a arrogrance attitude of academics and intellectual prowlness.
When was the last time you saw a Caucasian, Latino or Middle-Eastern females at the Roulette table plunking down $1,000 in chips; yeah only the ADLs. You will find them at the local Casinos and Vietnamese coffee shops in Westminster. When dating ADLs, classic complaints are that you're too lazy, unmotivated or don't work enough; they will pick a fight if they catch you taking a nap in the afternoon, or playing video games. Yes, they will require the usual deisgner hang bags, expensive cars and nice dinners out.
AVOID ADLs at all cost! If you happen to married an ADL, they will try to suduce you into their get rich quick schemes... Just a fair warning to all the bros who like the Asian sisters, they are out there be very careful!
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:33 am
The â€œdragon ladyâ€ is a concept developed by westerners to make Asians seem exotic and mysterious for various reasons. Famous Asians such as Chinaâ€™s Empress Dowager and Madame Chiang Kai Shek, Vietnamâ€™s Madame Nhu, Phillippines Imelda Marcos, etc. have been labeled as such. The â€œdragon ladyâ€ has also been a part of American popular culture from the character â€œDragon Ladyâ€ in the 1960s cartoon Pogo to Ling in Ally McBeal in the 1990s so this stereotype of Asian women will probably be with us for a long time to come.
There has been a massive surge in fraud prosecutions of Asians in California in the past year, much more extensive than the few that have come to your attention in the OC press. And yes, many are middle aged women, and yes, several are married to white men. Most of the incidents occurred during the bubble and it has taken this long for the law to catch up with the massive amount of white collar crime committed during that time. While all of these prosecutions involve different circumstances, a number of these defendants have stated that their fraudulent actions are fairly normal in their country of origin. Therefore, there may be a cultural explanation rather than simply a case of personal characteristics.
By the way, there is an inexhaustible supply of white men with yellow fever who will â€œsuccumbâ€ despite your warning.
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:08 pm
Both RC and 888 are right with their perception. I will talk about one Asian ethnicity for now. Among the Vietnamese population 3 1/2 decades of welfare scamming the government is a common Cafe Lu chat.
Every political refugee is entitled to this and there is no shame to be entitled to the money otherwise the money would go the Hispanic in the neighboring cities. This opportunity is much more lucrative than holding a real job. Many work in a low wage cash paying job to hide their income from uncle Sam. Young ABV generation learned their ethical behavior from adults. Instant get rich scheme is the mind set for many.
Among this ethnic population girls learned to use their body as an advantage to make quick money whether she is working at the local massage parlor in Irvine, at Cafe Lu, a red towel cat house or working as the contract girl for Jules Jordan. Vietnamese girls know how to market themselves by using their vanity asset. The yellow fever market is there and they are fulfilling the demands.
Beauty schools and nail salons are all monopolized by Vietnamese women where girls learn quickly beauty comes first.
What would a middle age Vietnamese do when her body is no longer an asset. Vietnamese mamasans represent the majority of today's AMP next to Korean. Another field are white collar scams like mortgage and medical clinics.
Among the Vietnamese population in Little Saigon sharing scamming schemes is quite common among friends and relatives.
Vietnamese men for some reason are less aggressive than women.
I think that is kind of my point; there is both a strong cultural pressure which feeds into the personal explanation why I think there is a concentration of these crimes committed by ADLs.
Two other stories; I worked at a Chinese fast food-take out place in the mall after High School; the managers was a Chinese lady from the mainland and the husband was one of the cooks. I can guarantee you that husband did not have the brains to rip off the Taiwanese owners; come to find out the wife was cooking the books and pocketing the cash. They were caught by the police fleeing the country at LAX.
A co-worker - manager once told me know his business partners a Taiwanese lady and her white husband basically stole the company right under him. The couple convince the board to fire him and transfer all ownership to them; the guy went from starting and running a multi-million business to being penniless. To this day he has a post-traumatic reaction to Asian women.
Woman play a different role in upholding morality and ethics in society. Women usually dictate how far the relationship will go physically and emotionally. They can inspire and motivate their men or they can corrupt their character. The men are under general pressure to provide and perform; we don't need their wives to remind us.
The wife to nag me to stay home; she hands down prefer emotional than financial security. I keep telling her "I don't work hard enough"; "what do you mean" she said; you're working hard at home raising our son; and the time I'm taking away from work, I'm investing in him. I can't imagine having a Asian wife, let alone an ADL; I do see a cultural shift, a lot of the Asian bros are looking outside the sisters for quality genuine relationships, many are looking past the superficiality, materialism and performance driven agreements...
Most household ADLs wear the pants in the family and especially true with the educated ADLs in Irvine.
BK, did you forget to mention that most of these mamasans always seem to locate their establishments in Irvine?
8 in skypark circle, 3 by the Von karman Kocarts, 4 near by the 24 Hr fitness and Burger king in the Spectrum, 14 hidden in medical suite buildings along Infertility road, one next to the Kitty store, 5 directly across from the JWA, and 10 scattered along Culver Strip Malls near by the Nordstrom post office and one closed her door next to a window pane company recently.
Mr. Hare said no happy ending is suspected in these fine Irvine establishments. No foul play is suspected and this is the 5th safest city in America based on metropolitan cities of 100,000 and over for 5 straight years in a row.
hey 888 thanks for the insight... can you shed any light into personal experiences, encounters with ADLs? I don't really mean to be derogatory with the term if it offends you; maybe you can give it a new name. There are a lot of assertive business professionals out there; but something about the ADLs that push things thru illegal levels; I also can't tell you the number of times I've wasted time and energy on some accounts to earn their business but to no avail.
Come to think of it; I do have one Korean ADL client in collections now who practices in Irvine, she owes me about $3,000. She got kicked out of her other building in Santa Ana; her neighbors have complain to me that she would cash their checks if they came to her by accident; take their packages and not pay bills. She keeps complaining about being under a lien from the IRS. BTW these are highly educated professionals, PhDs and such who have numerous major character defects...
They all have passive agressive behavior. They will take advantage of your service and refuse to pay later. Once they severed your bridge they will move to the next target. Realtors encounter them the most and they will demand all the time without a commission in sight.
They rarely have good ethics. This is a hypothetical example: they will exploit Wildcard's time to view properties and tap his knowledge and once they arrive at a decision to buy they contact USC Trojan to represent them for a 1% kick back.
I donâ€™t the term â€œdragon lady.â€ I prefer greedy, old, oriental witch.
Hereâ€™s my advice, you will never sell anything to an ADL because they donâ€™t want to pay for anything, no matter how wealthy they are. Paying is for suckers and white people. This is how it always goes down: ADL has some urgent problem which you are in the business of solving; she says she will hire you to solve the problem but because of urgency, you need to give her something immediately; you help her; you never hear from her again.
Trust me. 99% of Asian lady clients over my many years in the business only a few really have integrity. Most will exploit you when ever they can and decides not to pay later or argue about the bill for a huge discount. Irvine is the mecca for ADL.
Many are very successful. The owner of Diamond Jamboree is very very and extremely successful.
This stereotypical nature of this thread makes me a little physically ill. And not because I'm married to an Asian....and no, I don't have a fetish since that seems to be a common suggestion on OCR --- my wife is exactly the the 2nd Asian I ever dated. The first was in high school...and that was not exactly "dating". But that's another story.
You could fill in the "race" blank for any culture throughout this thread. Sure, maybe you see a lot of that from Asian women around here --- because live in Orange County. There are a lot of Asians around here. Duh. I grew up in Whiteville Minneapolis. I lived in Puerto Rico for 3 years while in the Navy. My last GF before my wife was African American. And let me enlighten y'all --- there are so-called dragon biayatches of every race and background. Just like there are good people of every background. To focus in on just Asian because that's what we might see more of around here is just plain narrow and stupid. People are people. Or said another way --- wherever you go, there you are. Didn't I say that to you before, RC?
Every one of the white, Latina, and black girls in my past was more high maintenance than my wife. Every last one. Now, maybe that says more about my selection process than anything --- but to imply this is some sort of an Asian-specific thing is disingenuous. If you feel that this behavior is isolated to Asians, I might suggest experiencing more women. And with respect to sex workers, you probably don't need to look too far from Cafe Lu to find women of other races exploiting their sexuality for profit. Anybody who has ever driven down Harbor Blvd. could probably attest to that.
That's all I have to say about this dumb thread.
Patrick, I agree wholeheartedly with you. According to the Wikipedia link above, the term "dragon lady" refers exclusively to an Asian stereotype. However as you stated, of course, those traits are equally common to men & women of each and every ethnicity. To attribute them only to Asian women is racist.
I'm not sure that I want to jump in here, but...
I suspect that some are saying that the *frequency* of those perpetrators *in the OC* being asian women is higher than for other ethnic groups.
I don't know whether this is true or not (though my limited experience is that it is). my perception is that is is a subset of the "entrepreneurial class" that falls into the DL phenotype. Since many of them in the OC are of asian ethnicity, they make up a larger portion of the DL class.
Perhaps in LA county is is persian, or armenian. Perhaps in other counties it is hispanics or whites. Perhaps in Florida is is born and bred crackers (again..my bias..)
Everyone has a point here. OC central excepts for SA is home to many successful Asians families. To be successful and getting ahead in career or business both women and men are likely be aggressive. In this society when an Asian woman is successful we label them DL. Here we see a lot of them because the successful tend to gravitate to living in the Asian Beverly Hills of OC.
Our media culture used to portrayed Asian women subservient as depicted in many 60's films like Flower Drum Girl's May Ling. Yellow Fever began during the 60's among college campuses. The tiniest girl with the smallest eyes married the most handsome white guy.
Lately, Hollywood found Lucy Liu's bitchy character extremely appealing and especially when she plays the dominant and mean roles. Many white guys fantasize licking her boots
In society we have a double standard. We view successful women as DL. I am sure when we see the political commercials we can't help to think the former CEO of HP and Ebay the white DLs.
Pat I'll boil my point down to one question, that you can ask your wife. This is for those moments where you and your wife are out to dinner and your wife asks, so what are you thinking about. Or, those times where your wife is nagging you to turn off the TV, put down the Soju and you actually have to talk and communicate your feelings and "connect" with her.
The question is simply: What is your definition of success? Ask your wife: "If I were to say dear that I'm successful; what would that look like to you?"
Now I don't know your wife and I have never meet you; but I can almost guarantee that she'll say something to the effect of being great at your vocation; being successful in your field of expertise. Making a great income, providing well for the family; being financially free to do what you guys want whenever you want. Accumulating some sort of influence in your field, or some sort of model, example or consultant.
All I'm saying is that I got that same answer one shape way or form for most of my life, until I meet my wife. She is the only one that ever defined success this way.
Being successful is being a great husband, friend and companion. Spending quality time learning and developing our relationship with each other God and others. Being a dad that is present and devoted to our son and family. Leading the household spiritually in depending on the Lord for all of our material needs. And doing a good job in whatever I do, not for the immediate gratifications of people around us; but work towards an eternal goal for the Kingdom of God.
I'll ask anyone to answer this question; all you Asian/non Asians, males & females alike... what was the first thing that came to your mind!?
No, you don't know us. I guess what I am reading in this post (and many others in the past) is that you tend to believe it is always an either/or proposition. RC, we have all the things you mention above. My wife and I are both very successful in our careers, beyond what we ever hoped to achieve. We could have more --- but are not willing to sacrafice a balanced personal life. I drop my child off at school each morning. My wife works part time, and picks her up from school each day. I work 50-60 hours a week --- but I am home 98% of the time for dinner and homework, and then pick up work for a couple hours later after my daugther is in bed. Weekends we are ALWAYS together. And you know what, this is by and large what I see from our peers around town.
I think you are too focused on the extreme examples. And you cannot --- I repeat cannot --- assume or imply extreme examples are isolated to one race or gender, even though that may be your focus. And yes, extreme examples exist in all backgrounds, but those people are the exception, not the rule.
RC, it is possible to have it all. All one needs to do is be willing to compromise just a little. And it sounds like you are still searching for that place where you feel like you "have it all".
A couple more simple questions for you, roundcorners, if I may:
1. To you, whose definition of your success is most important; yours, your SO's, your friends', your family's, your church's, or mine? (you can only choose one).
2. Do you believe that all of these will be the same?
3. Do you believe that any of these will be the same?
4. Do you believe that these definitions are static or malleable?
Do I know you WC? I assume your question are sincere, but I'll play either way...
1) God's definition first, wife's, family, friends, Church, others...
2) The details might vary, but certain themes of core values would be the same for most; some will definitely be very different.
3) Yes, some would be the same.
4) Again, the core values of who I am and what I'm created to do will not change; the detail might change a bit...
Do these women count?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e66c3a8a-d559 ... abdc0.html
More than half the worldâ€™s richest self-made women are Chinese, thanks in large part to the Communist partyâ€™s ending of the worst of gender discrimination in the country, according to the Hurun Report, which compiles information on the wealthiest Chinese.
The worldâ€™s three richest women are Chinese â€“ as are 11 of the top 20 â€“ according to the Hurun List of Self-Made Women Billionaires, published on Tuesday.
I asked these questions in all seriousness, to understand your perspective and to figure out how to best phrase my point to you.
As I understand it, you believe in the Christian God, your success/salvation is based on faith alone and not by acts. You simply need to believe in Him, seek forgiveness, and receive it. So you're already a success in those terms.
I do notice the absence in the list of the importance of your own definition of success. I don't know if it was intentional or incidental, but in either case I would argue that it should be in there, at the top. I don't think that is being egomaniacal (I might very well be wrong) but I think it is nearly impossible to find meaningful fulfillment without feeling a modicum of your own success. Otherwise everything else is empty action. There's a parable about removing the log from your own eye first, in a book, somewhere, I believe...
I agree with you about core values remaining unchanged, which is by definition what a core value is. But success sometimes looks like hitting that big home run, and other times like just stepping up to the plate. It will constantly change based on situtional variances.
I do hope for you that your wife, friends and family all view you as a success, but I hope more for you that you feel successful from your own perspective.
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