Mguy and Falcon hit the Manila malls (pics galore!)

[mguy]

With the mongering issue. Why you guys butt hurt?

Anyways, as Falcon pointed out I intentionally kept my volume low as for them to not hear. I would have called them monger straight to their face if I wanted to. I can tell which ones are mongers. Foreigners in some places are non-mongers. Foreigners in the red-light district of Makati are mongers.

The term is actually "foreigner" when an old man over 40 yrs old is with a young skankily dressed Filipina (the monger term is not really used).

I think this is one of the reasons I am urging guys to come to the Philippines when they are still young. There is an overwhelming stereo-type to any foreigner that is old.

White guy in Makati over 40 with young Filipina? MONGER. White guy in Makati under 30 with young Filipina? Student at the international school.

See the difference?

I don't want to sound hateful but that is the way it is here. There are strategies to get around that but you still need to be aware of this dynamic.

This doesn't apply to Asian-American guys, which is why I would easily give them an edge in this country. Asian? Come here now.

There was a black guy that me an Falcon saw in Makati. The next time I see a black guy I will talk to him and ask him how his dating life is like over here. I'm still not sure how they are seen here so I'll do a reconnaissance. Filipinos think Black men are cool (at least I do) -- i'll have to confirm.

I'm learning a lot. There is a term "One Day Millionaire" ODM -- as the dirty Filipinas refer to foreigners. SHOCKING REVELATION: THEY KNOW THE PLIGHT OF AMERICAN MEN. Anways, update blog just on what I learned with dgaming with falc.

[mguy]

I agree that it's better not to throw around insults in public but before people pile on Mguy let me just say he's still a pretty good guy and legit. I've been talking to him via PM for awhile now and he speaks his mind as he sees it. Plus he has way more credibility when it comes to women over a couple not long term posters on here who claim to be SEA gurus.

I don't doubt that he is credible, but he is also extremely racist against whites. He has made that clear in many of his posts. Apparently, others are finally starting to see this. While he is a good resource for Asians of this forum, I don't think that he would respond well to whites, especially if he knows that they are serious about meeting Filipinas.

Don't mid him too much Maverick. He's still resentful of the treatment he's faced as an Asian American male and, to be honest, I've felt very similar feelings in the past. No hard feelings sir. You don't know how hard it is to be an overseas Asian in an Anglo world, Maverick.

Anyway...I bet once he arrived in Asia, the feeling of resentment disappeared because it's like a completely different situation in this part of the world... You're no longer hamstring by your race over here (especially as an Asian)...and it's pretty liberating as a result. Asian women actually like Asian men over here, and your no longer put down or face stupid stereotypes as a result of being Asian.

You have to be Asian to understand...

In a way true. And IT IS SWEET!!! Just existing without any racial bias is sweet sweet honey! Makes me want to be productive.

Maverick, aren't you below 30? Why don't you come here because most of this stuff will not apply to you. There is a stereo-type for OLD white guys but you YOUNGER white guys will do fine.

The only thing though Maverick, is that me and Falcon did an accounting of the height (me asking random guys their height) and we got a 5'8 average.

[mguy]

Who is the girl on the right here? She's so hot. Did you get her number or email? She is in the top 10 percent in terms of looks in the Philippines.

She is far from top 10% Winston. You want more girls to hold up your signs? lol. I' can make a couple girls do but I dont want to get in trouble.

BTW, Falcon, that camera is actually pretty good quality. Good purchase!

[Rock]

With the mongering issue. Why you guys butt hurt?

Anyways, as Falcon pointed out I intentionally kept my volume low as for them to not hear. I would have called them monger straight to their face if I wanted to. I can tell which ones are mongers. Foreigners in some places are non-mongers. Foreigners in the red-light district of Makati are mongers.

The term is actually "foreigner" when an old man over 40 yrs old is with a young skankily dressed Filipina (the monger term is not really used).

I think this is one of the reasons I am urging guys to come to the Philippines when they are still young. There is an overwhelming stereo-type to any foreigner that is old.

White guy in Makati over 40 with young Filipina? MONGER. White guy in Makati under 30 with young Filipina? Student at the international school.

See the difference?

I don't want to sound hateful but that is the way it is here. There are strategies to get around that but you still need to be aware of this dynamic.

This doesn't apply to Asian-American guys, which is why I would easily give them an edge in this country. Asian? Come here now.

There was a black guy that me an Falcon saw in Makati. The next time I see a black guy I will talk to him and ask him how his dating life is like over here. I'm still not sure how they are seen here so I'll do a reconnaissance. Filipinos think Black men are cool (at least I do) -- i'll have to confirm.

I'm learning a lot. There is a term "One Day Millionaire" ODM -- as the dirty Filipinas refer to foreigners. SHOCKING REVELATION: THEY KNOW THE PLIGHT OF AMERICAN MEN. Anways, update blog just on what I learned with dgaming with falc.

1. It's not about how it is there. It's how you yourself as an esteemed member here quietly mocked someone who could have been Ladislav or certain other core long term members. That hurts feelings. And what's with all the Asian on white writings from your earlier posts? This is not an Asian or minority board. And I would add it's a rather anti-PU leaning board too. Read my post on HA Brotherhood. Don't try to divide people here.

2. The terms "one day/week/month millionaire" has been around a long time, not just in Phils but in Thailand and many other countries. It's often thrown around by expats who resent the crazy spending habits of short term visitors.

3. I've been to P. Burgos and Angeles. Depending on the time, I noticed a lot of the younger guys are the crazy mongers while older guys like to get a long term gal into some kinda gf or even wife arrangement. Younger guys are typically the ones with the strong sex drives. If they only go there for a week or two, they may try to make the most of it quantity wise. As for race, I see lots of 20-30 something Koreans (some even teens) in Angeles and on P. Burgos middle easterners, blacks, and whites of young and middle age. In spite of the commonly held stereotypes, there are loads of young mongers and plenty are Asian.

4. When we analyze HA countries, the comparison should be relative, not absolute. What you say regarding 'come when you are young' applies to about anywhere. If Phils. is not a relatively good place for old guys, which country is? I would strongly argue that Phils. is still one of the best places for them. It's easier for an old guy to find true love there with a young woman than perhaps anywhere else I know of, ala several guys on this forum including Winston himself. The hip young set there in Manila area is still a small percentage of Pinays. Younger Asian guys can go to Thailand or Taiwan and find a much larger selection of very attractive and taller girls, former more for play and latter more for serious relationships. Guys like Falcon are just intimidated by more middle class types and Falcon himself is a rather rare bird in that he actually prefers the lower socio-economic types. I would imagine a lot of young Asian guys prefer the more mainstream ones. For that demographic, Taiwan and Thailand offer a much larger selection of attractive to very attractive girls.

5. When it comes to local expertise on Phils., I find a lot of things vary depending on the 'expert'. You can talk to 10 different Filipinos/as from good backgrounds (ones who have lived their whole lives there) and get a wide variety of answers. Filams like yourself will discover and learn for a long time once you return to Phils. What seems true today may seem limited or false in 6 months time. Perception is a weird thing when you relocate to a country and slowly peel back the layers. After I moved to London, I learned and unlearned new things for well over a year.

[Rock]

The only thing though Maverick, is that me and Falcon did an accounting of the height (me asking random guys their height) and we got a 5'8 average.

Self reported height is going to be inflated. If a guy says he's 5'9", there's a good chance he's 5'7" or 5'8" with no shoes, especially in Phils. where height inflation is common (even the people who measure in school, etc. often add an inch or two).

Can't you judge well by looking and considering their shoes. I can usually get a guy's height down to within half an inch unless he's under 5'2" or over 6'5".

[Rock]

Who is the girl on the right here? She's so hot. Did you get her number or email? She is in the top 10 percent in terms of looks in the Philippines.

She is far from top 10% Winston. You want more girls to hold up your signs? lol. I' can make a couple girls do but I dont want to get in trouble.

BTW, Falcon, that camera is actually pretty good quality. Good purchase!

It really depends on your taste I suppose. But masses in Glorieta are not impressive. Sometime, I will take a bunch of random shots to see what un-selected scenes look like.

[mguy]

Like I said, I made sure they didn't hear. It was more of an inside joke between two Asian-American dudes and two HA posters.

[mguy]

If I find that monger I will apologize for offending his sensibilities.

[ladislav]

If I find that monger I will apologize for offending his sensibilities.

How do you know he was a monger and not a father with his daughter? Did you see him get the girl from a pimp?

Or could it be me with my God-sister? And how do you know his nationality- there are plenty of white people who are Filipino citizens now.

The thing is in the first post(s) it said that you "shouted it out". That was what got everyone's goat here.

Now, a few things about the Philippine society- in the Philippines all citizens are officially called Filipinos. Native born and naturalized. Then they are divided by the language they speak. Not by race as in the US. But the language division is not official. I got called Tagalog several times even behind my back. You are what you speak.

The richest people in the Philippines are old Spanish families- they are white. Many are blond. They are the ones who are in the Manila Yacht Club. If you call them Caucasian, they will not understand what you mean. They are Filipinos.

Then you have rich Fil-Chinese families. They are all still Filipinos. There's no official division as in Asian Filipino, Caucasian Filipino. That is not the US.

Many former Americans as well as Germans and even Poles got Filipino nationality and are now officially listed as Filipinos. No one can say they are not. That is not China. Not Japan or Korea. There is no concept of race anywhere in records. Either you are a Filipino as in citizen or you are not. However, naturalized ones cannot hold public office or serve in army, police, etc. Otherwise, all the rights of citizens are the same.

There's no division by descent, race, shmace. The US system did not take on there.

So, swaggering around as an Asian American finally able to take a piss at a Caucasian ( American? or is it) with a woman ( could be his wife or even daughter) and he could be a Filipino like anyone else, is an outlandish idea which should have been left in the USA.

Butthurt? Some guy could be some business exec walking around with his daughter ( adopted and otherwise) and you shout out monger and insult and slander that person in front of others? You are toast, man.

Why defend yourself? Just admit it was not a wise thing to say or do, and don't do it again.

I said and did plenty of stupid things when I was young and insulted people without thinking and got my a@@ kicked for that. I admitted my mistake and moved on. I am much more respectful now.

[Falcon]

Just arrived in the Visayas.

Trike driver pointed at girls and asked me if I like the babae's here.

Getting hit on by lots of Visayan ladies too. My Indonesian lady might not be exactly pleased, haha.

[Repatriate]

I think people need to settle down. There is rarely any outcry when a few guys on here express their distaste of non-white men dating white women. Mguy is just calling it how he sees it from his perspective. This is HA and not exactly the most politically correct of places. I don't see what's wrong with someone making the polar argument in regards to race relations coming from a different point of view. It's not like hes advocating driving white people in the Phils into the sea.

I don't think he needs to be apologetic at all. Why mask his own thinking with regards to this topic?

[davewe]

I don't think he needs to be apologetic at all. Why mask his own thinking with regards to this topic?

No one objected to his thinking, but to his action. Shouting out in a mall (or whispering as he later said) "monger" is a childish thing to do, as is bragging about it or rationalizing it in a trip report.

So he doesn't like older white guys with younger Pinays? Big deal - he wouldn't be the first person to make such a judgment. But going to Manila, hitting the malls and acting the fool makes all foreigners look bad.

As Lad said, in the Philippines, there is little distinction between race and nationality; everyone who isn't Filipino is a "foreigner." Therefore a girl will tell you, "my cousin has a foreigner boyfriend," and he could be American, European, Chinese, Korean, etc. Even the term "kano" is thrown around loosely at anyone who is thought to be Caucasian.

The point is, in most of the Philippines (and Manila might be an exception) there is no concept of "fellow Asians". A Vietnamese or Korean or Thai or Asian-American is a foreigner, in the same way as a white American or Australian is.

I have talked to hundreds of Pinays and I can't recall anyone saying, "he's an Asian." They say "he's a foreigner." Maybe if pressed she will say he is Chinese or Korean - but in many cases she doesn't even know that.

So in the Philippines, attacking one foreign group attacks all foreign groups. No girl will think, "white foreigners are mongers but Asian-American or Korean foreigners are OK." She will think "foreigners are all sex tourists - even foreigners say that about each other."

[Repatriate]

I don't think he needs to be apologetic at all. Why mask his own thinking with regards to this topic?

No one objected to his thinking, but to his action. Shouting out in a mall (or whispering as he later said) "monger" is a childish thing to do, as is bragging about it or rationalizing it in a trip report.

I get what you are saying but Mguy is a Fil-am and an upper middle class one at that. Whether you like it or not his thinking does express deeper understanding of the local scene and people than your typical expat or the people they hang out with.

I think his insights are valuable regardless of his own political or social feelings about this issue. We have some outright bigots (bananao, and a few others) and segregationists (American in mexico) on here so I find mguy to be pretty far down on that list of being seriously offensive.

[ladislav]

Yeah, OK but as an "upper class Filipino" mboy should know that the richest Filipinos are of Spanish descent- Europeans, that is. Now, I hope he does not call one of those monger when they come out of a nightclub. Those are uber-upper class and can be quick on the trigger.

Just to be fair it would be nice if mboy would shout out the same at the thousands of Korean/Japanese/TWese mongers there, too- those do pretty ugly things there. Not shout at his fellow Americans ( yes, siree) in Manila.

Yeah, we can put this issue to rest but one thing is certain- few foreigners care what gossipy natives say or think about them in the Philippines- they have no respect for their opinions. The flow of tourists, retirees, even immigrants to and out of the Philippines will not stop and mingling whether serious or p4p will not stop either. Every extended Filipino family has a foreigner married to someone among them. Been going on for 500 years or so. Or longer.

Back many centuries even before Magellan set foot in Cebu, Greeks and Arabs were already intermarrying with the Malay population. Whoever visited the place always noted that there were all these communities of very mixed people living happily together. Always have been, always will be.

The idea of Asian brotherhood to oppose the Caucausian sex invaders will not sell to Pinoys. A lone Asian nationalist from the USA will have a voice as powerful as a mosquito's squeak in the Amazon.

It is not Thailand, thank god and not Hawaii-double thank God.

As Lad said, in the Philippines, there is little distinction between race and nationality; everyone who isn't Filipino is a "foreigner."

Filipino means citizen, foreigner is a non-citizen. Anyone can be a Filipino.

[Rock]

Yeah, OK but as an "upper class Filipino" mboy should know that the richest Filipinos are of Spanish descent- Europeans, that is. Now, I hope he does not call one of those monger when they come out of a nightclub. Those are uber-upper class and can be quick on the trigger.

Just to be fair it would be nice if mboy would shout out the same at the thousands of Korean/Japanese/TWese mongers there, too- those do pretty ugly things there. Not shout at his fellow Americans ( yes, siree) in Manila.

Yeah, we can put this issue to rest but one thing is certain- few foreigners care what gossipy natives say or think about them in the Philippines- they have no respect for their opinions. The flow of tourists, retirees, even immigrants to and out of the Philippines will not stop and mingling whether serious or p4p will not stop either. Every extended Filipino family has a foreigner married to someone among them. Been going on for 500 years or so. Or longer.

Back many centuries even before Magellan set foot in Cebu, Greeks and Arabs were already intermarrying with the Malay population. Whoever visited the place always noted that there were all these communities of very mixed people living happily together. Always have been, always will be.

The idea of Asian brotherhood to oppose the Caucausian sex invaders will not sell to Pinoys. A lone Asian nationalist from the USA will have a voice as powerful as a mosquito's squeak in the Amazon.

It is not Thailand, thank god and not Hawaii-double thank God.

As Lad said, in the Philippines, there is little distinction between race and nationality; everyone who isn't Filipino is a "foreigner."

Filipino means citizen, foreigner is a non-citizen. Anyone can be a Filipino.

1. He did admit that there has been an anti-Korean backlash acted on by some Filipinos and that many don't like Koreans these days. I do believe that Filipinos, even in the provinces, are very aware of Koreans as a separate and distinct from other 'foreigners' group. Cus Koreans tend to set-up their own mini communities and networks in various parts of Phils. In universities, the Korean students segregate themselves a great deal socially as well. The other separate group Filipinos seem to be aware of the are many of the Indians who do much of the money lending business.

2. Actually, I think mguy is making fun of 'old white guys' here, not just white guys. Perhaps his mocking is more ageist more than anything else. Of course that's not going to sit well when the core group of Philippines centric posters on HA happen to be mostly older guys with Pinay wives or gf(s), most of whom are white. Mguy, through his voice piece Falcon is having his say here and so will they.

3. But some of his posts also show him as someone trying to separate out American Asians and even blacks to go their own way or separate from whites. Moreover, both he and Falcon seem to think they are at some great advantage just for being Asian. I'm not so sure that's as true as they think.

Speaking Tagalog, yes, that's a great advantage for sure. Most local girls I've met there in Luzon seem to really be keen for me to learn that language. But if Falcon and mguy had been two similar (in terms of height and looks) white guys who had intermediate and native fluency respectively in Tagalog, I highly doubt they would have been recieved any differently. They would have gotten just as much attention, smiles, and engagements.

Actually, I'm kinda curious how Will N. Dowd, as an 'old white guy' would have been received in those malls relative to Falcon and mguy. Cus I've seen his photo and he's pretty good looking (former model he claims) plus he's like 6'2" and well built. I think he would have his own niche and they wouldn't just be the unattractive and/or poor types. I think he would have been generally appreciated there for looking good. Looks trumps all else IMO when there is not chance to experience personality or attitude.

4. As for what looks the Pinays go for, it varies I believe but it's a rather wide net as compared to American girls. I've said the same thing before about Colombianas. If you have the look mguy says is popular now, they will appreciate you for that. But it if you have a boyish metrosexual Korean look, many will highly dig you too. And if you are a blue eyed white guy, many are going to love your look and eyes. If you are hairy, many can accept and appreciate that. Filipinas can appreciate many looks and see attractiveness in you if you are a good looking guy from whatever race. For blacks, I do no some prefer not to go that path. But then I've seen plenty of others who do. Shawn's Senagalese female friend who lives in Manila told me that her African male friends are very popular.

It really makes sense that good looking Pinoys from States or exotic looking foreigners would be popular there. Cus when a more pure blooded Pinay has children with these types, there is a clear improvement on average. The kids look more striking and stand-out as special. I've seen this time and time again.

5. Mguy is a fluent Tagalog speaker who looks like a certain type of Filipino. That alone gives him advantages and credibility. But I don't know how much time he's actually spent on the ground there. I will say that the 3 or 4 local Filipinos I know of who read or have read this forum pretty much peg him the same way - some recently arrived Filam from a privileged class and background who is living in a bubble of sorts, not really in touch much with the broader Filipino people.

6. Philippines is pretty complicated given the different classes and dialects/languages you will come into contact with if you amble about the country. There are probably much bigger differences there than in the homogeneous NE Asian countries. So to get inside info, we need a panel of Philippines experts here, not just one. They will each have their own specialties.