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AiB & Falcon....

Post your trip reports, travel experiences, and updates abroad. Or your expat story if you already live overseas. Note: To post photos and images, insert the image URL between the tags [img]and[/img] after uploading them to a third party site.

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Postby anamericaninbangkok » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:20 am

Falcon wrote:
I don't think he was talking about me, however, if you only saw white expats with bar girls, sluts, and low-class hookers maybe they weren't expats and maybe you weren't in areas where the expats actually live. If you come to my area (Bangkapi) I rarely see a white expat with a ho. Go to the business districts on Sathorn and you're not going to see white expats hanging out with hos.


Yeah, I meant mostly naive white tourists. Didn't mean white expats like you, you're the man. 8)

By "dumpster diving" I meant bad personalities and poor compatibility, and also what Rock would consider to be lower-class. I'm not talking about looks.

And Banano, that's the p**n star look. Of course they're attractive eye candy, but they don't necessarily make good wives or girlfriends. Plus, I've mentioned many times that I'm a Taiwanese American around 20 years old, decent-looking and I'd say not average or below average.

You really do have to admit that pickier guys often get their concept of who's "more beautiful" from the mainstream media. And in Thai media, that would exclude women with darker skin. That's what those in power want you to believe. Winston has noticed that I don't like watching movies and TV shows. I go with my gut instincts unconditioned by popular media, and this feels more natural to me.

Definitely skewed towards his tastes.


No, that's what a typical Indonesian female migrant worker in Taiwan looks like, and is really a representative sample of that crowd. I did not cherry-pick anything on purpose, and those were really the Indonesian women I'd meet randomly at the park or other public venue in Taipei. Same with Mexican female migrant workers in the US, they're usually going to have that homely look and not look like Banano's bikini p**n stars. Now, they aren't going to be representative of white Mexican women in Guadalajara, which more of you guys might consider to be "hot."

I'm simply laying out what's on the menu, and if some frustrated lonely guys here don't like that, then that's their choice. :P

AiB, I guess you picked up your Christian Indonesian women in Jakarta? Are they a mixture of Catholics and Protestants?


I find it extremely amusing that you're talking about white men and their low-class women when your women are not at all better physically. Your women are your women, good for you. Obviously you see the attraction in different ways.

Bonano's women are a couple of notches above yours, absolutely, porn stars or not.

If the white men in Thailand are dumpster diving, what is it you're doing?
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Postby Banano » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:33 am

Falcone

I think you are selling yourself short, you are 20 you guy, gotta aim a bit higher.

What kind of women are you going to chase when you turn 30 or 40 when most of your looks is gone?


As for brazilian chicks, I know some of them, banged black one and took that pic myself; porn stars or not Im sure someone is nailing them for free.

i'd like to see Winnie go to Brazil and report back



Image
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Postby djfourmoney » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:56 am

I'm not in love with the near BBW's EZ likes, but that doesn't affect my opinion of him which is positive.

Men shouldn't attack others for their taste. I just tell them simply, don't sell me on what you think looks good. If that floats your boat then that's all that counts.

I just keep it real.

There isn't much competition for short, dark skinned women nor is there much competition for full figured women either. So that makes your task of bedding them or having relationships with them awfully suspect.

IT AINT THAT HARD!

Anybody short of the Elephant Man should be able to pull short, dark Indigenous looking women. Also nobody in a culture highly sensitive to appearances such as Brazil and Colombia; also among the Top countries in Latin America where plastic surgery is popular of course a near fat Afro decent chick is going appreciate the attention you give her.

In fact Afro Brazilians will take any attention they can get! - http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/2013/09/16 ... g-married/

So while looks are totally subjective (I agree) the truth lies somewhere beneath all this PC nonsense.

If your girl ain't hot, that's okay dude, we don't have to sleep with her, you do...
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Postby djfourmoney » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:07 am



I'd hit all but the majority of the chicks in the top picture. I know that is average for much of Latin America, especially one with a sizable Black population.

But the rest of the pictures all the ton of "highly above" average chicks floating around Latin America and the Caribbean, specially Dominican Republic.

The last picture is one me and Ez would agree on, that girl has lots of ass!
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Postby djfourmoney » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:54 am

zboy1 wrote:
anamericaninbangkok wrote:
Rock is a relatively more sophisticated guy who feels most comfortable with other more sophisticated women. But Winston and I don't, being the oddball Taiwanese freethinkers who just refuse to be conditioned by society, even though our middle-class suburban backgrounds are presumably just like Rock's. It's also refreshing to hear from an expat who goes for the "high-caliber women", and doesn't go "dumpster diving" as many of the white expats do in Thailand.


Honestly, I find it humorous that you speak of white expats dumpster diving when most of the women in your photographs are pretty unattractive. While I can come off as brash, my tastes are sophisticated and my upbringing would be considered upper middle-class. The women I dated, whether in the US or in Asia, and my wife, would definitely not be considered women obtained while dumpster diving. Falcon considers white expats dumpster diving, what does he think about his own women? To me, your women are bottom of the barrel but again, they're your women and as long as you like them, that's all that matters.

I know next to nothing about Taiwan as I have only been there on once occasion. I have been to Indonesia several times and most of the women I've been with or who I know are Christians.

While I think Rock is correct about switching countries every 3-5 years, if plan on getting married and having a family, this becomes more difficult. If I had it to do all over again in a different country, I would probably choose Japan.

Rock is also correct about anyone being able to pick up the women Falcon seems to choose. What's the point of moving abroad for the specific purpose of landing a woman or women if you're going out with women who anyone else could go out with? Sure, Falcon is popular...but with what sort of women? The same goes for Xiongmao...Of course, these are just my opinions.


Well, when I was in Thailand, I saw most White expats (and other foreigners like Asians and Blacks) with bar girls, sluts and low-class hookers. Of course, not all the White expats were like that. And, of course, I've seen White men with very beautiful Thai females (that weren't bar girls or hoes).

I don't think Falcon was talking about you (or your wife) when he was talking about the White tourists in Thailand, anamericaninbangkok. I think he was talking about foreigners traveling to Pattaya, Phuket and other places like that. After all, what are most foreigners doing in Thailand in the first place, :lol:

And what's with the criticism of Falcon and his choice of females? I hate that. We should be encouraging each other on HappierAbroad, not tearing each other apart like what some people did to WillNDowd. So what if some people have certain fetishes or tastes in women--don't we all?


I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking for women not only I would find attractive but my friends, family and especially strangers.

In the Black Community the stereotype is that Black men get the leftovers White men generally don't want. While I can produce thousands of examples that it simply isn't true, the stereotype remains and that is because Western media, especially in the US is reluctant to show these types of relationships as it may cause a reduction in ratings; this is especially the case with the Big Four (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) where around the time the Molly Dodd character started dating this Black police detective that was written out of the show eventually dying in a off-duty robbery attempt.

Example, before they started dating -

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kROvrI5F070[/youtube]

There is also the Sex In The City example, not with any of the "blond" chicks and not with the lead character always looking for "Mr. Big" (As in Wallet)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDli41LyWkw[/youtube]

Of course she didn't marry him either, that would mean he would be a recurring character. Again likely some market research was done but they also watched the ratings and if the feeling was favorable they might have kept in the show and Miranda might have married him. But as it turns out, that didn't happen (of course) she ended up with a typical successful White guy and had his children. Meaning that this was a "phase" she was going through.

Having always been curious, even infatuated, that curiosity was quenched and she moved on.

So yes, part of me has always wanted to date women, especially White women no matter if she was thin or even BBW, she was always ATTRACTIVE and like I said I can provide photographic proof. I'd always want to be able to say mentally, that "hey average White guy its likely your politics perpetuates White Supremacy and idiots like Cornfed; but you see my wife? She didn't pick you, she picked ME; despite the fact that over my lifetime I will make less money than a White man. Despite the fact that IR Marriage especially between a WW and BM has less of survival rate than those of even BW married to WM. Despite all the real-time and subliminal messaging to all White Women to stay in their lanes and that stepping out of it, especially with a BM is unacceptable. Its even more acceptable to marry a Non-American Black Man, which is why there was no media excitement about Congressmen John Boehner's daughter wedding to a Jamaican man. Yes he's still of Afro-descent but not like "Our" own BM...

Parting Shot and should be congratulated on over 10 years of marriage, former NFL Defense End Jayson Taylor and his wife, who is former NFL Linebacker Zach Thomas' sister...

Image

So yes BM can "Get The Job Done" (Big Daddy Kane) if they didn't love LOW HANGING FRUIT so much, that includes rotten fruit on the ground already (American Black Women).
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Postby Falcon » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:31 pm

Guys, I wasn't trying to submit candidates for Miss Universe or some p**n star convention. I could have easily posted the Banano and DjFourMoney types if that were the case. I know what they look like.

I was simply doing a continuation of Winston's Approachable Faces of Foreign Women (Visual Proof).
http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page61.htm

Let's pretend for a second that all the photos of women in there are what you consider to be ugly. But Winston's point is that they have no "strong anti-stranger, unapproachable force field/bubble around them." It's about how they're so friendly and warm.

I was generous and courageous enough to post those photos. Many guys here aren't posting pictures of foreign women they've encountered for fear of this kind of backlash. This is why there is a lack of such content on this forum (photos in trip reports).

I wanted to plug in this gap and voice my true inner personal opinion. This is why I'm posting on this forum and not some other one. I'm very sure that these photos that you find horrendous could actually help and inspire others, and give the dateless guys in the Anglosphere some hope.

Thanks.
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Postby Winston » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:18 pm

To Falcon:

You are right that Rock acts Taiwanese on the inside. But it's sort of a paradox because he's not a conformist who hangs in cliques and has no individuality or identity outside of their group, like Taiwanese are. Nor is he into groupthink. So in some ways he is not Taiwanese. Plus he does not befriend Taiwanese males either, like other Taiwanese males do. So he is a paradox.

To AiB:

I agree with you that Falcon's girls aren't good looking. However, your wife is not very good looking either. She's average by US standards and by Thai standards, probably below average. No offense. I'm sure she's a great person with good qualities. But lookswise, she's not a looker either.

To Rock:

With all due respect, Falcon's girls may not be hot or good looking. And you may date more educated women. But your women are not good looking either. You choose older chubby women that no one else wants. So lookswise, your women are not hotter than Falcon's either. So how can you say anything about Falcon's tastes?

In fact, I'd say that the women you've chosen in the Philippines are far better looking than the women you chose in Taiwan. That says something. lol

Yeah I know Taiwan culture through my relatives and the Taiwanese American community in the US. But so what? What am I missing? Pop culture? No one cares about that.

The bottom line is that my assessment of Taiwan is generally correct and accurate. And virtually all Taiwanese say so too, including Momopi. Even you know that I'm right too, but you like to argue just for the sake of arguing for some reason. That's part of your personality.

The 99 percent thing was figurative. You know what I meant. You've insinuated many times that everyone else you knew found Taiwanese girls easy to pick up except me. Whether it's 99 percent, 90 percent or 85 percent doesn't matter. You know what you said and what you implied.

The thing is though, you haven't shown much proof for your claims that Taiwanese girls are approachable and easy for everyone to pick up except me. All you have are words and you don't have proof, whereas I have tons of proof to the contrary. When you showed me pics of the French guy, you just showed a bunch of pics of him on the beach having a picnic with a group of people. That didn't prove anything. Then when you gave me his email, he never wrote back. So again, no proof.

Plus, since you sometimes BS or say things just to argue, it's hard to know when to take you seriously or when you are telling the truth and when you aren't. Very few guys are 100 percent honest 100 percent of the time. Nearly all guys will BS and exaggerate occasionally. I don't see why you would be an exception. I do get the sense that you sometimes will lie and fabricate in order to try to tear down someone's argument, just because you like to counter and argue for the sake of arguing.

Even Ginger has noted many times that you will make up stuff to argue just for the sake of arguing. It's one of your annoying personality flaws no doubt. Therefore, I can't say that you are 100 percent credible. Very few men are honest 100 percent of the time.

You also gave everyone the false impression that Taiwanese girls are approachable, except to a few people like me. But you don't seem to understand Taiwanese culture. Everyone in Taiwan knows that Taiwan girls don't talk to strangers and are not that open with strangers. How can everyone know that except Rock, when Rock knows more than me about Taiwan? Again, another odd paradox.

What you don't understand is that courage to approach girls has nothing to do with this. It simply feels morally wrong to approach Taiwan girls. It's not normal and is not wanted and unwelcome. It would be like saying that you don't rape women or rob banks because you lack courage. No, it just feels morally wrong in Taiwan, like rape or robbing banks is morally wrong. It's NOT my imagination so don't try to trick me into thinking that it is. You know what I mean I'm sure. Even you often feel fear when trying to approach Taiwan girls. So you know that I'm right but you just like to argue for the sake of arguing.

Also, if Taiwan is so open and inclusive (you know it's not), then how come most foreigners in Taiwan only befriend other foreigners or Westernized Taiwanese, but not local mainstream Taiwanese? That speaks volumes and you know it.

The thing is, we all know that I'm right, but you like to find little exceptions to try to spin the truth to try to make exceptions the rule. Taiwan is not open or inclusive. Like America, it is very cliquish. You have to break into cliques to meet people, and foreigners usually can only break into cliques composed of mostly foreigners. That's a fact that everyone knows, including you.

So what are we debating about? What do we disagree on exactly? Can you be honest for once? Deep down, you know what I'm talking about, so why do you play games to try to obfuscate things and twist the facts? Very weird.
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Postby Falcon » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:17 pm

As I've said again and again, I posted pictures of those women to show that it was easy to approach, make friends with, and have warm, friendly conversations with them, not to show them off as "my type" or what my tastes were like. I posted those pictures so you could see how they don't have that Western female cold wall or perma-scowl.

I didn't think all of them were very attractive, but they were certainly all wonderfully warm, welcoming, and not cold or suspicious of strangers at all.

I didn't select the most attractive ones, but rather the friendliest ones and the ones I knew better. The point is, "Here are some cool friends I met.", not "Here's what I find to be physically attractive, and you guys should too."

If I had wanted to post pictures of only attractive women, I would have said so.


Winston wrote:It simply feels morally wrong to approach Taiwan girls.


Whereas it did NOT feel morally wrong at all to approach Indonesian girls in Taiwan. My pictures were meant to illustrate that point, that it was easy to make friends with them, and that they would actually also welcome flirting and romantic attention.
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Postby Banano » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:52 pm


To AiB:

I agree with you that Falcon's girls aren't good looking. However, your wife is not very good looking either. She's average by US standards and by Thai standards, probably below average. No offense. I'm sure she's a great person with good qualities. But lookswise, she's not a looker either.




Where did you see AiBs wife? Its not on his website. I know she middle class or something as AIB cant stand poor chicks.
Pls upload photo to see how she compares, cant imagine her being worse than Falcons girls
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Postby Winston » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:40 pm

Banano wrote:
To AiB:

I agree with you that Falcon's girls aren't good looking. However, your wife is not very good looking either. She's average by US standards and by Thai standards, probably below average. No offense. I'm sure she's a great person with good qualities. But lookswise, she's not a looker either.




Where did you see AiBs wife? Its not on his website. I know she middle class or something as AIB cant stand poor chicks.
Pls upload photo to see how she compares, cant imagine her being worse than Falcons girls


She is in some of his videos. I don't remember where he posted them. Maybe it's in the thread about the seminar in Vegas. Or type in "AmericaninBangkok wife" in the Google search box above. If you still can't find it, PM him to post the video of his wife again.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

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Postby Rock » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:20 pm

Winston wrote:To Falcon:

You are right that Rock acts Taiwanese on the inside. But it's sort of a paradox because he's not a conformist who hangs in cliques and has no individuality or identity outside of their group, like Taiwanese are. Nor is he into groupthink. So in some ways he is not Taiwanese. Plus he does not befriend Taiwanese males either, like other Taiwanese males do. So he is a paradox.

To AiB:

I agree with you that Falcon's girls aren't good looking. However, your wife is not very good looking either. She's average by US standards and by Thai standards, probably below average. No offense. I'm sure she's a great person with good qualities. But lookswise, she's not a looker either.

To Rock:

With all due respect, Falcon's girls may not be hot or good looking. And you may date more educated women. But your women are not good looking either. You choose older chubby women that no one else wants. So lookswise, your women are not hotter than Falcon's either. So how can you say anything about Falcon's tastes?

In fact, I'd say that the women you've chosen in the Philippines are far better looking than the women you chose in Taiwan. That says something. lol

Yeah I know Taiwan culture through my relatives and the Taiwanese American community in the US. But so what? What am I missing? Pop culture? No one cares about that.

The bottom line is that my assessment of Taiwan is generally correct and accurate. And virtually all Taiwanese say so too, including Momopi. Even you know that I'm right too, but you like to argue just for the sake of arguing for some reason. That's part of your personality.

The 99 percent thing was figurative. You know what I meant. You've insinuated many times that everyone else you knew found Taiwanese girls easy to pick up except me. Whether it's 99 percent, 90 percent or 85 percent doesn't matter. You know what you said and what you implied.

The thing is though, you haven't shown much proof for your claims that Taiwanese girls are approachable and easy for everyone to pick up except me. All you have are words and you don't have proof, whereas I have tons of proof to the contrary. When you showed me pics of the French guy, you just showed a bunch of pics of him on the beach having a picnic with a group of people. That didn't prove anything. Then when you gave me his email, he never wrote back. So again, no proof.

Plus, since you sometimes BS or say things just to argue, it's hard to know when to take you seriously or when you are telling the truth and when you aren't. Very few guys are 100 percent honest 100 percent of the time. Nearly all guys will BS and exaggerate occasionally. I don't see why you would be an exception. I do get the sense that you sometimes will lie and fabricate in order to try to tear down someone's argument, just because you like to counter and argue for the sake of arguing.

Even Ginger has noted many times that you will make up stuff to argue just for the sake of arguing. It's one of your annoying personality flaws no doubt. Therefore, I can't say that you are 100 percent credible. Very few men are honest 100 percent of the time.

You also gave everyone the false impression that Taiwanese girls are approachable, except to a few people like me. But you don't seem to understand Taiwanese culture. Everyone in Taiwan knows that Taiwan girls don't talk to strangers and are not that open with strangers. How can everyone know that except Rock, when Rock knows more than me about Taiwan? Again, another odd paradox.

What you don't understand is that courage to approach girls has nothing to do with this. It simply feels morally wrong to approach Taiwan girls. It's not normal and is not wanted and unwelcome. It would be like saying that you don't rape women or rob banks because you lack courage. No, it just feels morally wrong in Taiwan, like rape or robbing banks is morally wrong. It's NOT my imagination so don't try to trick me into thinking that it is. You know what I mean I'm sure. Even you often feel fear when trying to approach Taiwan girls. So you know that I'm right but you just like to argue for the sake of arguing.

Also, if Taiwan is so open and inclusive (you know it's not), then how come most foreigners in Taiwan only befriend other foreigners or Westernized Taiwanese, but not local mainstream Taiwanese? That speaks volumes and you know it.

The thing is, we all know that I'm right, but you like to find little exceptions to try to spin the truth to try to make exceptions the rule. Taiwan is not open or inclusive. Like America, it is very cliquish. You have to break into cliques to meet people, and foreigners usually can only break into cliques composed of mostly foreigners. That's a fact that everyone knows, including you.

So what are we debating about? What do we disagree on exactly? Can you be honest for once? Deep down, you know what I'm talking about, so why do you play games to try to obfuscate things and twist the facts? Very weird.


Winston

1. I have befriended Taiwan males. But they tended to be business contacts, clients, mentors, or non-conventional types. My pals there were mainly other western guys but the problem is that they tend to come and go. Even the ones who marry Taiwan girls often end up moving away.

2. Falcon is still very young. If he wanted to, he could hang out with his cousin and game the 18-21 set day and night in Taipei. I think even Falcon understands that if he was willing to adjust himself and accept the local urban girls for what they are, he could enjoy some decent success there with the types of girls you and/or I like. But he doesn’t wanna go down that road. As I said, if that’s his genuine taste (not a temporary issue related to his upbringing), then he’s lucky. Cus from my experience, most gals like that tend NOT to be picky at all about guys as long as they are treated nicely and with some respect and care.

3. It’s funny that you say I’ve chosen older chubby women that no one else wants. Falcon is the one into more mature gals, not me. Roughly 80% of girls I’ve seriously dated in Taiwan over the years have been in the 18-24 bracket when I was with them and most of the rest have been no more than 28. While I’ve dated a few that are on the very chubby side, most were in the normal range and many were quite picky. And they were popular with other guys, both Taiwanese and westerners.

4. What you are missing about Taiwan culture relevant to this discussion is the ability to connect with local girls and achieve romantic chemistry in spite of the cultural barriers you often bring-up. We could chalk it all up to you being past the age sweet spot. But I’m pretty sure that even the 20 something version of yourself would not do well with Taipei. Some of these issues may apply in part to Falcon as well.

5. Winston, what exactly do you and I disagree on? You say the culture in Taiwan is repressive. I didn’t dispute you much on this nor did Momopi. On the other hand, I’ve said that it’s possible for certain first world guys to achieve a strong dating handicap in the Taiwan environment, that dating girls who are attractive and young relative to what such guys could date back home is very doable. And I offered up myself and others as real life examples of this phenomenon. Unlike you, Momopi has dated and been intimate with at least several Taiwan girls. He’s managed to meet some of them on short trips to Taiwan too. So I doubt he really disagrees with me.

Winston, you like logic, right? Well here’s the flaw in the discussion we sometimes seem to get stuck on. Winston says Taiwan/Taiwanese are X while Rock says it’s possible that certain people can do Y in Taiwan. Somehow, Winston interprets Rock’s statement as Taiwan/Taiwanese are NOT X and therefore Rock is in direct disagreement with him. But Rock did not strongly deny Winston’s statement. He highlighted something perhaps related but still very different. Winston seems to never get this. The brush he uses to paint Taiwan is way too broad, something you might expect from a child or simple thinker. Since you are a deep thinker who writes well, I can only guess that perhaps you have an emotional block regarding Taiwan and that you’ve taken your dating failures there too personally, to the point where you project them onto everyone else.

So, again Winston, what exactly are we arguing about?

6. “The thing is though, you haven't shown much proof for your claims that Taiwanese girls are approachable and easy for everyone to pick up except me.â€￾

It’s not so easy to approach Taiwan girls. It does take some balls. But it’s doable. I’ve done it in front of you. I’ve done it in front of Sinbadsailor. I’ve done it in front of Monkro. I’ve even done it in front of Falcon. So what about results? I mean, anyone can approach a girl about anywhere. Certain guys on this forum have approached over 1,000 girls in USA with virtually nothing to show for it.

Sinbadsailor: Read the account I posted. Of the girls he was interested in and we approached, he had at last 3 interested in seeing him again after just a few hours of work.

Monkro: Read the account’s I’ve posted. He’s had to work harder than Sinbadsailor but still managed to find several local girls who dated him and a 2 or 3 who got intimate with him.

Falcon: We only approached one girl. Yet from the read I got, there’s a decent chance she would have gone out with him if he had really shown interest and perhaps behaved in a somewhat different manner.

Rock: Even though I travel a lot, around 85% of the girls I’ve dated and been intimate with are Taiwanese. One of the 2 girls I met in front of Monkro for my own interest was a 23 year-old nurse who I dated for almost a year. I think she is quite cute and I can show you her photo. I’ve got dozens of photos of other Taiwanese and Chinese girls I’ve dated, most of which you have never seen. You can call them old, fat, and unwanted if you like. But the reality is that most were young, popular, and medium to pleasantly chubby at worst.

French guy: Both me and my ex gf were around the guy for a few months. We saw him bring plenty of local girls back to his room, some classmates and even more bar pick-ups. Why would both my ex and I make this claim if it were not true? Is your idea of proof having a bedroom scene video taped or perhaps being asked to join in on the action LOL?

7. I promise you, to my knowledge, I’ve never BSed you or others on this forum. I am a truth seeker who does not like to spread falsehoods. If you have proof otherwise, feel free to call me out on it. I’ve met plenty of others from this forum too and I don’t believe any have caught me in lies or BS. If anyone disagrees, they can bring it up with me. As for Ginger, you should know by now how credible she is. And at certain times, she said plenty of untrue shit about you and even Dianne to me as well. You may choose not to believe me. But it’s totally different thing to prove I’ve made things up or lied to you. To be frank, it’s disheartens me sometimes when you doubt my credibility or honesty given the pains I’ve taken to always be straight.

8. “You also gave everyone the false impression that Taiwanese girls are approachable, except to a few people like me. But you don't seem to understand Taiwanese culture. Everyone in Taiwan knows that Taiwan girls don't talk to strangers and are not that open with strangers. How can everyone know that except Rock, when Rock knows more than me about Taiwan? Again, another odd paradox.â€￾

a. The are challenging. But even you and/or I approached quite a few Taiwan girls on my visits to Taichung and even Chaiyi. So how did we achieve that if “Taiwan girls don’t talk to strangersâ€￾?

b. You say everyone knows that. Well, if it’s the fact you and others claim it is, then somehow, I’ve managed to hack it at times. Because the undeniable fact is that I have approached girls and talked to strangers in Taiwan, even ones you would deem as worthy.

c. It’s not paradox. You simply focus too much, to the point of obsessing about, what Taiwan girls wear on their sleeves, the shell they carry around them. I don’t deny this. It’s an obstacle no doubt. But it’s not impossible, at least for some. I believe actions and achievements are what ultimately count. Certain first world guys have gotten better results in Taiwan than they could get back home. That’s what matters to me. I can offer up real life examples of this. But of course you can claim Monkro and others are just BSing too. It’s not like they’re going to give you vids of themselves in action.

9. I for one do not feel morally wrong approaching Taiwan girls. My justification is
simple – I’m offering you the chance to know me or a trusted friend of mine. I/He has no bad intentions. It’s just an offer of friendship and perhaps even more eventually. If you are interested, great. If not fine. No harm done.

To date, I’ve never been slapped or even called a bad name for approaching Taiwan girls in this context.

10. “Also, if Taiwan is so open and inclusive (you know it's not), then how come most foreigners in Taiwan only befriend other foreigners or Westernized Taiwanese, but not local mainstream Taiwanese? That speaks volumes and you know it.â€￾

This is not our bone of our contention. Since you so far keep forgetting that, it really seems you lose some of your objective sense when it comes to discussions about Taiwan. Kinda reminds me of what happens when you talk to Lad about Thailand.

11. "So what are we debating about? What do we disagree on exactly?"

Great questions. You hit the nail right on head. You really should reflect on this question and what I just wrote above in No. 10.
Rock
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Postby Rock » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:32 pm

Falcon wrote:As I've said again and again, I posted pictures of those women to show that it was easy to approach, make friends with, and have warm, friendly conversations with them, not to show them off as "my type" or what my tastes were like. I posted those pictures so you could see how they don't have that Western female cold wall or perma-scowl.

I didn't think all of them were very attractive, but they were certainly all wonderfully warm, welcoming, and not cold or suspicious of strangers at all.

I didn't select the most attractive ones, but rather the friendliest ones and the ones I knew better. The point is, "Here are some cool friends I met.", not "Here's what I find to be physically attractive, and you guys should too."

If I had wanted to post pictures of only attractive women, I would have said so.


Winston wrote:It simply feels morally wrong to approach Taiwan girls.


Whereas it did NOT feel morally wrong at all to approach Indonesian girls in Taiwan. My pictures were meant to illustrate that point, that it was easy to make friends with them, and that they would actually also welcome flirting and romantic attention.


Falcon, you've been making a great point here. But consider a further possibility on the HA strategy - That there is more than one type of girl who looks unapproachable - The type I encountered in USA vs. the type I sometimes encountered in select countries abroad.

a. In the States, I never got anywhere with those girls nor even the rare girls who looked approachable on the surface (drunk, nice to everyone types, etc.) save one or two exceptions.

b. In countries like Brazil, Taiwan, or even Philippines, I managed to sometimes get past the apparent ice shield and get a date, a mate, or a girlfriend. In general, girls who are considered more attractive by majority of guys tend to be more standoffish (on the surface) in most countries I've visited. It makes sense. If you get approached too frequently, you need a protection shield, kinda like the one I put up to counter the touts I often encounter in poorer countries.

Some of the guys don't just want friendly and easy to approach girls. They also want girls who are considered attractive or better by majority of guys including themselves. I'm sure it's more challenging to date girls who are generally considered more attractive. But it's a lot more doable in many areas of the world than USA IMO. For me, that's been one of the key attractions to the HA lifestyle.
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Postby Falcon » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:07 pm

It's like how the outer shell of a nut or fruit does not necessarily determine how delicious the inside is. That's how Rock looks at things, whereas Winston looks at things from a different way. Sometimes I think it's not that either Rock or Winston is BS'ing per se, but that their different worldviews cause them to focus on different things, and explain things very differently.


Rock wrote:2. Falcon is still very young. If he wanted to, he could hang out with his cousin and game the 18-21 set day and night in Taipei. I think even Falcon understands that if he was willing to adjust himself and accept the local urban girls for what they are, he could enjoy some decent success there with the types of girls you and/or I like. But he doesn’t wanna go down that road. As I said, if that’s his genuine taste (not a temporary issue related to his upbringing), then he’s lucky. Cus from my experience, most gals like that tend NOT to be picky at all about guys as long as they are treated nicely and with some respect and care.


Yes, I believe I could do much better if I made a conscious effort to game young women in Taipei. I know a few young Taiwanese young guys who are immensely popular with the women, but they are the types who fit in the "Taiwanese urban boy culture" and have an intuitive sense of how Taiwanese youth culture works. So I could definitely enlist my cousin's help.

However, I've already "gamed" the Indonesians in Taipei without even trying to put in "game." As I've reported, I got overwhelmed with interest. I'm quite sure Indonesian women in Taiwan hardly get any attention from young Taiwanese guys, so this works HUGELY in my favor.

There's absolutely no need to decode whether it's safe to make a move on them, whether they're friend-zoning you, and all that BS that comes with Taiwanese and American women. It just doesn't seem to be in their nature to play such games. On the contrary, in the US I'd constantly have to do this decoding with women, and often things would go very wrong when I'd failed at the decoding (ex., I had actually been friend-zoned but made a move anyways, causing nasty rejection and embarassment). Many Taiwanese women also need to be extensively decoded. This is why I get unnerved around them.

(Oh by the way, I practiced more with the Thermae-type Northern Thai ladies, and learned that they're actually very easy to flirt with and talk to. No nervousness or uncertainty around them anymore!)

By now, I know my Indonesian lady much better than my cousin. I now feel more comfortable being around and talking to her than I would with any of my cousins.

Since I've already found such an attractive option, unless I have a very strong desire to really want to date Taiwanese, or get very strong pressure from family to do so, then I don't think I'd go down that road.


Yet from the read I got, there’s a decent chance she would have gone out with him if he had really shown interest and perhaps behaved in a somewhat different manner.


Yes, I believe it's possible. She looked liked one of those more studious Taiwanese exchange students in California, who usually aren't quite as intimidating as the Americanized ones. But it would be difficult to get my inner charismatic self to open up with these types.


So in a way, I do agree with both Winston and Rock. :D
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Postby Falcon » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:31 pm

Look, I think a much more productive thing to do would be to keep on writing about how we actually go about attaining our goals.

Getting at each others' throats about their tastes in women and opinions of things just isn't productive.

- Winston can talk about his bubbly Philippines women and talkative mainland Chinese women.
- Rock can talk about his classy urban NE Asian chubby women.
- I can talk about my village ladies from all over the world.


All of the above are completely viable options for a frustrated Western guy. It would make much more sense for him to read and compare Report A about laid-back village girls and Report B about classy urban girls, rather than to read online feuds.

It's like arguing about apples vs. oranges, compared to actually giving detailed descriptions about apples and oranges while respecting all of them are valid reports on their own.
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Postby Rock » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:35 pm

Falcon wrote:It's like how the outer shell of a nut or fruit does not necessarily determine how delicious the inside is. That's how Rock looks at things, whereas Winston looks at things from a different way. Sometimes I think it's not that either Rock or Winston is BS'ing per se, but that their different worldviews cause them to focus on different things, and explain things very differently.


Rock wrote:2. Falcon is still very young. If he wanted to, he could hang out with his cousin and game the 18-21 set day and night in Taipei. I think even Falcon understands that if he was willing to adjust himself and accept the local urban girls for what they are, he could enjoy some decent success there with the types of girls you and/or I like. But he doesn’t wanna go down that road. As I said, if that’s his genuine taste (not a temporary issue related to his upbringing), then he’s lucky. Cus from my experience, most gals like that tend NOT to be picky at all about guys as long as they are treated nicely and with some respect and care.


Yes, I believe I could do much better if I made a conscious effort to game young women in Taipei. I know a few young Taiwanese young guys who are immensely popular with the women, but they are the types who fit in the "Taiwanese urban boy culture" and have an intuitive sense of how Taiwanese youth culture works. So I could definitely enlist my cousin's help.

However, I've already "gamed" the Indonesians in Taipei without even trying to put in "game." As I've reported, I got overwhelmed with interest. I'm quite sure Indonesian women in Taiwan hardly get any attention from young Taiwanese guys, so this works HUGELY in my favor.

There's absolutely no need to decode whether it's safe to make a move on them, whether they're friend-zoning you, and all that BS that comes with Taiwanese and American women. It just doesn't seem to be in their nature to play such games. On the contrary, in the US I'd constantly have to do this decoding with women, and often things would go very wrong when I'd failed at the decoding (ex., I had actually been friend-zoned but made a move anyways, causing nasty rejection and embarassment). Many Taiwanese women also need to be extensively decoded. This is why I get unnerved around them.

(Oh by the way, I practiced more with the Thermae-type Northern Thai ladies, and learned that they're actually very easy to flirt with and talk to. No nervousness or uncertainty around them anymore!)

By now, I know my Indonesian lady much better than my cousin. I now feel more comfortable being around and talking to her than I would with any of my cousins.

Since I've already found such an attractive option, unless I have a very strong desire to really want to date Taiwanese, or get very strong pressure from family to do so, then I don't think I'd go down that road.


Yet from the read I got, there’s a decent chance she would have gone out with him if he had really shown interest and perhaps behaved in a somewhat different manner.


Yes, I believe it's possible. She looked liked one of those more studious Taiwanese exchange students in California, who usually aren't quite as intimidating as the Americanized ones. But it would be difficult to get my inner charismatic self to open up with these types.


So in a way, I do agree with both Winston and Rock. :D


The reason I say you are lucky is that you don't even seem to notice much the physical differences between hot, attractive, average, and below average looking women by broader perceptions of guys in Asia or on this forum. To you, it seems they are pretty much equal - hot, cute, attractive, homely, ugly, young, old, tall, short, etc. So they are all just 'women' and you are free to choose the most friendly and open. Of course those are going to tend to be the ones who get ignored the most by guys or at least attractive catch type of guys.

Consider one girl I know of who you seem to really be into (Issan). Reflect on her age, height, skin condition, color, profession, teeth, body shape, number of children, etc. Most guys I know would not be willing to ever date such a girl. Yet it seems, assuming all else equal, you would be just as happy dating her as one of your cousin's gals or perhaps the gal from bookstore who you admit might like you with some work. You are almost physically indifferent, lucky you.

It's funny you bring up Thermae as an example of northern Thai ladies. Cus it seems to be pretty much at the lower-end with girls who may doll themselves up more in a Japanese fashion but who for the most part are Issan and go with customers for just 1,500 and maybe lower sometimes.
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