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Post your trip reports, travel experiences, and updates abroad. Or your expat story if you already live overseas. Note: To post photos and images, insert the image URL between the tags after uploading them to a third party site.
ladislav wrote:
I think we need a trailblazer ala Winston here to see how well an E. Asian person does in Ukraine.
Wow...Ladislav, couldn't believe you actually said that. Winston is far from a fair representation of an average East Asian. Plus he is now much older and hence becomes less attractive and vibrant compared to a youthful Winston. That Winston I first saw almost a decade ago was championing albeit a bit eccentric. Nowadays he just make weird threads with tin foil hat elements in it. It doesn't take a genius to say he will most likely have little success in Ukraine. Also, day game is not popular in Ukraine, and has no real use at all, because who needs it when everyone is willing to introduce you to their friends, and babushki likes arranging dates.
ladislav wrote:
There are very, VERY few E. Asians here. I haven't seen even one with a local girl. Quiet a few blacks with them, though.
What's the difference between 'very very few' and a few? If there's 2 Asians and 5 blacks, I think the difference in number is negligible. Also it's not fair to just call them blacks, because it skews the context. Are these young and look like students? Are these migrants peddling wares? One popular crowd that goes to Ukraine on a fairly frequent basis are military contractor types from Africa. They come to buy the Ukrainian military hardwares and receive training. Almost all of them will end up in a pub, drunk and asking Ukrainian women to marry them and take to Africa.
It seems like everyone is minding their own business and got no time or desire to meet new people, Winston claimed its only in US where its taboo to talk to strangers.
Even though Winston is not fair representation of an average Asian guy his experience can be used as a rough guide for other Asian men. Yes, he changed a lot over the past decade and so did Eastern Europe but I'd like to see Winston do some cold approaches in downtown Kiev using hidden camera
What if Winston bumps into someone from Azov battalion?
ladislav wrote:
There are very, VERY few E. Asians here. I haven't seen even one with a local girl. Quiet a few blacks with them, though. No one seems to give a darn about the latter. People are worried about other things- like the war.
A friendly country to Asians in Estonia from what I have heard. But if you go to Ukraine, you will be the first one opening the market.
Nice find on the Miss Kiev thing. Should shut up some doubters about what is possible.
Incidentally here in Ensenada I met 2 Ukrainian women yesterdays. Mother was doable, mid-twenties daughter was like Helen of Troy. Very slender, beautiful face, model body, wide hips.
Both were modestly dressed, staying in nearby luxury resort probably. Both went on a camel ride there on the beach (yes there are now camels in Baja). No Iphone picture snapping /attention whoring though, just quiet fun.
Came from Lviv about 7 years ago, moved to San Diego.
Anyway I can tell you: Ukrainian women really DO "look like that".
"Well actually, she's not REALLY my daughter. But she does like to call me Daddy... at certain moments..."
It's hard for me to give exact statistics, only observations. I did not go around with a clipboard and a counter marking people off. Based on my rather general impressions, I was able to give the general assessment.
Few vs very few? Ok, I'll explain: I have seen two black guys with local girls, heard of more from Ukrainians who have told me that such couples now exist. Good enough for now. Didn't see any Asian-UA couples, and only saw some groups of Asians -possibly Chinese- with their own girls.
Saw VNese - again with their own.
Doesn't provide an accurate picture, true, but gives you a more or less general idea. After a talk with local people, they confirmed that Asians keep to themselves here. Maybe scared to talk to white people because of the mythical language problem and "face". Africans or Turks/Arabs have no such problem. They talk broken Russian and bad Ukrainian and no problemo.
I cannot do a statistical study with standard deviations yet.
Since Asian people are not numerous here and not prominent, and since UA people have very little experience with them, the UA's possibly cannot tell their age. In their 40ies, Asians mostly have the same black hair and no wrinkles. I would imagine that Winston way then and now wouldn't look much different to them. If he lost weight and dressed well, he'd do well. I doubt that he'd get Miss Kiev by doing daygame - or any of us would- for that matter.
Ukraine is more conservative than Russia, true, but this is still not Saudi Arabia or Iran or a feminzed Anglo-b-tch-land. Day game is possible, and I remember doing it when a teenager here. Not as easy as in a small Russian town, but still somewhat doable. It's just that you'll mostly find someone "liberated" who's into foreigners. She'll just as easily meet another guy when you're gone.
Local guys like to meet girls thru work, school, social clubs or at resorts/parties. Sometimes, you can go to discos and meet gals there. Intros aren't made by babushkas anymore, but thru friends- if you want quality girls, that is.
Black people whom I saw here were very obviously students-and Ukraine houses many thousands of them. All the rest aren't as numerous. If they hang out at clubs, they'll meet easy club girls there.
By the way, yesterday I saw two girls ( blonde/light brown hair) who weren't even perfect 10's. They were 3-4 points above 10 on that scale. America cannot biologically produce such stunning beauties among white people. They simply don't exist there. My Texan friend rides the subway here for hours just to look at the girls.
Ukraine is the original land of Slavs from which all of them spread out. The DNA is mostly Aryan/Scandinavian with a Celtic admixture. There is a tad of Turkish, Semitic ( Jews) and Mongolian. This tad adds a certain springin-ness to their skin and that exotic look. The US whites who are mostly British/Irish and German simply cannot be so good looking when it comes to women. Men, yes.
Miss Bakurova looks heavenly. Happy for the Chinese guy- he's also good looking. No one told me about this. So, it does happen but I guess, in very limited numbers.
ladislav wrote:PS. The girl who I am with now is a daughter of a priest, and I met her on an online language site. We're not dating- she was giving me language classes.
Generally, I feel the same way- you need to have language skills and time on the ground and also watch how local guys treat girls. Most look very humble in female presence. Girls here are used to being treated with respect. Foreigners do well if they stay and integrate. Without language skills and time on the ground, it's gonna be harder.
You can still date on legit online sites, but a lot of those girls want to emigrate. There are many tours and they seem legit, but those girls have really set their eyes on living in the US. If that's your cup of tea, then why not?
Imho, the cultural gap between Anglos and these Slavs is still very big. The latter may " look" like Americans or Brits, but that's where the similarity ends. An average monolingual and mono-cultural Anglo guy will have easier time dating Japanese girls than these ones.
It really depends on what you want to do and how much you can afford in terms of time and money.
So do you think the cultural gap is larger between Ukrainians and Brits/Americans or East Asians (CJK)?
Taiwanese men have also went to places like Uzbekistan to find a bride:
These guys didn't stay home to b*tch about local women, or write lengthy, repetitive tirades on internet BBS. They got off their arse and went happier abroad.
Nice photos, but they are so rare they made it to the news!
momopi wrote:
These guys didn't stay home to b*tch about local women, or write lengthy, repetitive tirades on internet BBS. They got off their arse and went happier abroad.
I have to slightly disagree with this somehow strong statement. Like I shared before, it takes more than getting the arse off. It takes an element of luck, and the longer one can stay abroad and live decently, the more luck one will get. Living decently means you don't live in a run down apartment with questionable hot water supply and the famous 'Soviet elevator'.
As far as my experience goes, many Ukrainian women in their 20s are still spinning plates. You can still date them, and they will come out for you, but they might also do that for other guy 'friends'. And if they are not dating other guys, she's not promising you anything because she's still on the prowl for something better. The family oriented ones who also happened to be in their 20s have already married their local childhood sweet heart, and not available for foreigners. It's actually a catch-22 situation. In Kiev and in other industrial towns, I used an app to chat with women. There were far too many young single mums. So Ukrainian women are not by any significant miles better than western women, though it is better because at least I get responses and real actions instead of total blackout from western women. I am sharing this so new folks reading this thread know more or less what to expect.
Ukranian girls start screwing around in their mid teens or earlier, there are exceptions but they just confrm the rule.
On the other hand average HAer or expat dont care about good or bad girls, they will marry bar slut and believe anythin that comes out of her mouth thanks to years and years of being treated like shit by western women, hence their standards are so low.
Its important to get them when they are very young or else milige will be in double or triple digits, of course she will claim 2 or 3 before you came to rescue her.
A good question about the cultural gap. This is tricky. These Slavic people will feel closer to Asians because of the culture of modesty and simplicity, and also geographical proximily but will feel closer to Anglos because of religion and general knowledge.
As you can also see here, this Asian guy learned the language and tried to fit in. An Anglo will almost never do that. As in virtually never. Have you ever seen an American/Brit speaking Ukrainian? But you see Arabs and Turks and Asians learning at least Russian to speak with these East Slavs. This allows for a passageway into the society that does not exist with Anglos. The ones who do learn it make bigger inroads but then, the culture shock hits them. Many Asians do not mind the culture shock as they are way more resilient.
In the Anglo world, Oriental males are stereotyped as noodle mixing poor immigrants or bespectacled sexless math nurds. Or coolies or karate/kung fu bafoons. In the Slavic world, they are stereotyped as...nothing really. The approach is individual. You move in, you live here, you integrate. It's simple. The "narrow-eyed people" are not on their shit list.
As far as screwing around, I admit it's bad. We will need stats to actually see what goes on.
Yes, Russian will get you everywhere. Actually, SE Ukraine and more than half of Kiev is Russian-speaking. It doesn't make them Russian anymore than it makes Jamaicans and Filipinos Englishmen.
Everybody can speak Russian in Ukraine so you can stick with it if you come for a visit.The only people who are a bit averse to using Russian are in the West, but very few Western girlfriend-seeking tourists go there. It's the Catholic part, and they are a bit old fashioned there.
As far as the lingustic differences go, Ukrainian is much closer to Polish/Slovak than to Russian. If you don't study Ukrainian, you may guess something, but you won''t be able to carry on normal communication. The difference is probably like between German and Afrikaans. You can figure some things out but it's still a different language. To E. Euros, a country without its own language cannot be a nation.
Having said all that, yes, go with Russian, and you will be OK.
romparoo wrote:
I have to slightly disagree with this somehow strong statement. Like I shared before, it takes more than getting the arse off. It takes an element of luck, and the longer one can stay abroad and live decently, the more luck one will get. Living decently means you don't live in a run down apartment with questionable hot water supply and the famous 'Soviet elevator'.
Being at the right juncture of time and space (right time right place) is said to be fate or luck. But I give props to people like Mike Lin who married Larisa Bakurova. According to Taiwan media interview Larisa said her husband was a shy introvert who had a crush on her. He summoned up his courage to meet her at an entertainment media event and was awkward and stuttered. Five years later they were married in March of this year.
Success is, of course, not guaranteed. But if you don't take the first step, you won't get anywhere.
Last edited by momopi on June 23rd, 2015, 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Right place- to which you could bring yourself, right time-harder to control but can be done to an extent and right action on our part. If the mountain does not come to Mohammed, Mohammed will go to the mountain.
