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Just got back from Russia

Post your trip reports, travel experiences, and updates abroad. Or your expat story if you already live overseas. Note: To post photos and images, insert the image URL between the tags [img]and[/img] after uploading them to a third party site.

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Just got back from Russia

Postby ladislav » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:37 pm

This past year has not been very lucky for me: I was turned down for a loan to invest in a couple of houses in NY because I did not have a US- based job. It did not used to be that way but banks just stopped lending to people like myself. I was working in Saudi Arabia, and making good money, so WTF?. At the same time, my mom's ( and my house) in Ca. lost almost half a million in equity since the beginning of the recession. What better time can there be to just say- screw everything and everyone and just take your money and live it up like there is no tomorrow?

So, off I go to Jordan on a wild dune bashing tour on donkeys and horses, then luxury shopping in Istanbul, then Ukraine by train, then to Manila and Angeles City for some wild wild times.

The Russian girl that got trafficked, and who had been fighting tooth and nail against the traffickers is now in Russia but she arrived with no food and no autumn clothing so, I bankrolled most of her trip into the hinterlands where she enrolled at a college to be a stage director.

So, after two months in the Philippines of aggressive dating and worse, I decided to go to the US, get a visa to Russia and just fly and see what is going on with the girl who was only 18.

Anyway, here is my brief report:

Visas to Russia are best obtained from an established travel agency that has contacts with the embassy. They fill out all the forms, take all the pictures and send you off.

Russia is a bureuacratic country, has always been that way and the best way to beat bureuacracy is to go through people who know the ropes. Going to the embassy on your own can be daunting.

So, I paid $380 for a quick- 6 day- visa with this agency- www.rusonline.com. Then I flew from Palm Springs to LA, then to Washington and then off to Moscow. It was weird being on a plane full of Russian speakers. They were speaking real Russian, not the brogue spoken in Ukraine. Once I opened my mouth, my accent from Ukraine became obvious and they were giving me smiling looks- it sounded kind of exotic to them, I guess. I can never drop the accent but it is OK, I guess, since I am not planning on working there.

Anyway, I arrived after a very long flight and met a Filipina in line who was working in Russia. It was weird speaking Tagalog in front of Russian immigration officers. The airport was Domodedovo, the farthest from the city and I quickly grabbed a taxi and headed for the Kursky station to catch the train to Orel- where the girl was living.
The train ride through the Russian countryside- birch trees and cute little valleys and ravines and just never ending greenery was very nice. The people on the train were very communal, as Winston would note- they would help you out with information, smile and just make you feel nice. I arrived in Orel and took a taxi to my hotel- the trip must have taken me some 40 hours total, no sleep.

The girl sent me a text message and said she was coming to the hotel. Inspite of having worked in a pole dancing bar, the girl I bet was a very conservative, virgin type who would not go inside of a hotel to save her life.

Orel is Russian heartland- golden onion domes, a sea of Slavic blondes, people all well dressed, nice restaurants and sushi bars. Very good bars with satellite TV and everything is quaint but modern.

The girl arrived and took me around. She seemed very receptive to me, but at the same time, she let me know that we were 'just friends'. Ok, I was not looking for a quick lay and she was real young, too. After all, I 'saved' her so my trip was not of a sexual nature.

While she was in school, I explored the town and it was really quaint to say the least. A huge park, a very old city and a river running through it, there was an English pub, there were other very strange restaurants, the food was good. There were live bands and it felt very nice overall. The people were humble and non -agressive.


This is the main street that I would walk up and down on every day:

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/4030422-orel-Orel.jpg

This is the view from the station:

http://www.hemmy.net/images/travel/eaglemonument02.jpg

Some more images I have found:

http://images.acase.ru/cities_images/ru_oel00.jpg

I was staying at this hotel:

http://www.arussiahotel.com/russia-hotels/5288NEO-1.jpg

It was $40 a night.

So, I was wining and dining the girl and asking her how and where I could help her and also, how we could celebrate her 19th birthday. We eventually had a big champaigne celebration with live band music and her three classmates and I left.

Now I am back in Palm Springs, CA. and it all seems like one big dream- until I look at my credit card bills and the dream quickly becomes a little nightmare.

All in all it was fine, I was happy to see this cute little creature out of the clutches of the traffickers and safe in her own country.

I visited a law office to see if I could qualify for Russian citizenship because of my USSR birth. Well, it turns out that while I could get temporary residency with no major problems, instant citizenship was out for me. I woudl have to wait 5 years! The reason- I am not Russian- born, see? I was born in Ukraine and my family immigrated to the Russian republic when I was four. Hence, I am foreign born to them.

The lawyer said i was the first foreigner every to set foot in his office.

The town had plenty of girls and the taxi drivers were all part time pimps trying to set me up with hookers but I did not think it was appropriate given the circumstances. The girls in shops and at the post office were checking me out- I was speaking Russian with a funny accent and was dressed funny, too.

In Moscow, a taxi to the airport was $60 and a night at a small hotel was some 230 plus they charged for Wi-Fi- some $40 per night. Outrageous. Even Tokyo would not be this expensive.

The girl asks me to call her virtually every day now even though she keeps telling me we are just friends. I guess she wants to have a fatherly figure in her life or just a man she can talk to and rely upon. I called her this morning and she is asking if I would be coming to visit her again. I guess, this is going to be in the works some time in the future.

All, in all the trip was good and now , God willing I need to start looking into going back to the Middle East as all this gallivanting ends up costing you enormous money. Few US jobs would allow me that kind of lifestyle.

The thing about living a good life and meeting interesting people and going through all these adventures is that it all takes money. You can meet all these girls and be a savior and be worshiped even as a boon fallen from heavens, but it all takes money. No sh!t , Sherlock.

The tab for May- September carousing, dating, yachting and feasting in the midst of the worldwide recession- $24K. Ouch! Well, every dog has his day and this has been mine!
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Postby Winston » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:31 am

Damn, you must be crazy.

You got ripped off in Moscow. Don't you know the system? If a cab driver asks for too much, just close the door and wait for the next car that stops. After 3 to 4 cars, you can usually get a decent price. A taxi cab to the airport costs around 500 roubles from the area near city centre, which is about $10, not $60! Damn you love to waste.

You can get hotels for under $50 too. Go to www.cheap-moscow.com for references. Or even the Lonely Planet will give you deals. Izmailovsky Park Hotel gives you nice rooms for less than $50. Your hotels are ripoffs and should be put down. Who referred you to such overpriced shit?

And what was the point of going to Russia just to be friends with some girl? Anyone else would have considered that a waste of time and money, and felt like a loser afterward.

If you are that loose and free and careless with your money, then why don't you put a little into advertising costs for this site (e.g. google adwords) and movement to get us more publicity and help your fellow lonely American compatriots, instead of wasting it on girls who get themselves into trouble and do nothing for you? That would be far more productive. What a waste. God damn.

Or at least give it to a charity that does good things.

Don't you feel guilty for being ripped off?

It's not necessary at all to spend what you did, $24,000 to have a good time. No way. If I traveled with you for a week, I'd be broke. lol

Damn. I'm shocked that an intellectual like you could be so reckless with resources and money. Damn.
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Postby ladislav » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:23 am

Dear Winston,
You advice about money is appreciated, and I am flattered that you care about my finances. However, your psychiatric diagnosis may not be correct- I do not think I am crazy. I did make a lot of money in the Saudi desert and I did want to live it up a bit. Come on over and work in Saudi or Iraq and $24K will not seem much to you, either. My sacrifice- my money- I have the right to spend it any way I want.
I have friends who make $15K a month in this part of the world.
Also, $24k spent in 4 months boils down to some $190 a day which is not so bad when you consider how many countries I have covered and how many things I have done as well as how many people I have been able to help.
Helping young damsels in distress is my pet project. It is unusual in this world since I do not ask for anything in return , but it is extremely morally and spiritually satisfying to me, plus I just care about such girls. Their pain is my pain. Also, I do not adhere to the what’s-in-it-for-me philosophy. Many people do, I do not. I enjoy helping young ladies who have gotten themselves in trouble and I do not use anyone’s money to do so. Again, my money means- my right to spend it any way I wish.
Helping fellow Americans? Why don’t they ask? They can PM me. And also, fellow Americans can go ahead and apply for a high paying job in Iraq. 18 year old Russian girls cannot. 19 year old hill tribe girls also cannot.
Next, I was in Moscow for only one night. I asked for a taxi ride to Domodedovo from Kurski station. It is 50km +. Are you going to tell me that a Russian driver will take me there for Rur 500? Moscow is the most expensive city in the world. You mean they would charge $12 to travel 50km? Lol.
A nice hotel in Orel was only $40 a night. Not bad.
The one night I spent in Moscow was near the airport- there were no cheaper hotels in the vicinity there. I had the choice not to stay there, though. I could have just headed for the airport and slept there. On some chair or something. However, I chose to stay at the hotel because, well, I wanted some rest and money was not an issue at that point.
Anyway, I am back in the Middle East now- no recession here. Fellow Americans including yourself should come and check it out. There is plenty of cash here. You can work for a couple of years and retire.
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Re: Just got back from Russia

Postby momopi » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:28 am

ladislav wrote:This past year has not been very lucky for me: I was turned down for a loan to invest in a couple of houses in NY because I did not have a US- based job. It did not used to be that way but banks just stopped lending to people like myself. I was working in Saudi Arabia, and making good money, so WTF?. At the same time, my mom's ( and my house) in Ca. lost almost half a million in equity since the beginning of the recession. What better time can there be to just say- screw everything and everyone and just take your money and live it up like there is no tomorrow?


May I ask why you picked NY? Were you going after cashflow positive investments?
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Postby ladislav » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:09 pm

Well, I did not exactly pick West NY. I did not invest there. But yes, it has good cash flow possibilities.
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Postby Winston » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:55 am

Ladislav,
Nope. Even if I made the kind of money that you made, I would still not waste it the way you to. Not at all. I don't think you understand something. A truly frugal person who spends efficiently does NOT waste money even when he's rich. He may splurge once or twice treating his friends to dinner or something. But he does not splurge for months on end. That's the kind of behavior that gets you broke.

My prudish square Taiwanese relatives have a shitload of money and are loaded, for example, though they will never admit to being rich. However, they are still extremely frugal and do not like even wasting a few cents of electricity and are anal about it. It's not that they can't afford it. It's just a "mentality".

If I were a multi-millionaire, yes I'd spend a lot more than I do not. But I would not be reckless with my money. That's the point. You didn't see the big picture.

But it's not just that, your values toward your friends seem to be a bit upside down from most guys I know. For example, when we were at Spencers at the private karaoke room with Dianne and your three lesbian friends, who were your "sugar babies" for the week, at the end we still had 200p credit left over to consume. I had only consumed 300p there, whereas you already consumed your 500p half, so it was supposed to be mine to consume. But you went ahead and said that you wanted to use it on the three lesbo girls, rather than let me use it. So you ordered some sashimi which it ended up tasting like shit, so you ate it alone. That was a waste and a bad decision. I could have used it to buy a good pad thai meal to go. The thing is, you were so eager to please those lesbo girls, whom you never saw again, that you forgot who your real friends are. Those girls were not your real friends, you just took them out for a week and never saw them again. You just strung them around for the experience, then dumped them. Yet people like me, who are your long time and true friends, get treated as less important than them?! That was kind of weird.

It's like you were so eager to splurge on those girls, that you forgot to even be considerate to your real friends. That seemed a bit messed up.

Most guys I know treat their real friends better than they do with some whores they just met. I certainly would treat my real friends that I’ve known for a long time better than I would some whores I just met who are only around temporarily. Most guys I know would do the same.

Of course, it’s your right to be only generous to girls and not to guys. I understand that. But I’m just saying that you are different than most guys I know in that you are more generous to a total stranger than to your own true friends that are close to you. And that is a bit odd and twisted in my book.

You also forgot in your haste that the 200p really belonged to me since I had only consumed 300p and you had already consumed your 500p half on food. You didn’t think about that, and so it was a bit of a reckless move that was not thought out.

I count things, so I pay attention to such things, whereas you don’t. You are different from me in that regard. No one is perfect and I don’t expect you to be a perfect counting machine. But you should understand that stuff like that can be taken as a bit “inconsiderateâ€￾ by others. And I think that you should treat your real friends better than some whores you just met. I certainly would treat you far better than some whores I picked up.

So we obviously have different priorities in how we treat our friends. I know that you always mean well, and that you never mean bad, but I just wanted to let you know how I see things.
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Postby ladislav » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:14 am

Winston,your observations are well noted and I will be more considerate next time. In the meantime, I think I owe you P200. Can I pay it to you in cellphone loads?
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Postby Jackal » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:18 pm

ladislav wrote:Helping young damsels in distress is my pet project. It is unusual in this world since I do not ask for anything in return , but it is extremely morally and spiritually satisfying to me, plus I just care about such girls. Their pain is my pain. Also, I do not adhere to the what’s-in-it-for-me philosophy. Many people do, I do not. I enjoy helping young ladies who have gotten themselves in trouble and I do not use anyone’s money to do so. Again, my money means- my right to spend it any way I wish.
Helping fellow Americans? Why don’t they ask? They can PM me. And also, fellow Americans can go ahead and apply for a high paying job in Iraq. 18 year old Russian girls cannot. 19 year old hill tribe girls also cannot.


18-year-old Russian girls and 19-year-old hill tribe girls might also suck your dick in the future. Buddhist monks and nuns will not.

I applaud your altruism, Ladislav, but if you truly want to give with no strings attached for the sake of producing good karma for yourself and others, then you might also want to donate money to charities and religious organizations sometime.

Have you heard about the Maitreya Project in India? A Buddhist organization is going to build a huge statue of Maitreya, an important Buddhist deity, in Kushinagar, India, and they are already running schools and hospitals for the poor local children there.

http://www.maitreyaproject.org/en/donate/index.html
http://www.maitreyaproject.org/en/project/index.html

If you donate money to build a Buddhist temple or statue, you will continue to accumulate good karma in this life and your next lives for as long as even a speck of these structures still stands. There are also many other organizations which could use your support.
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Postby ladislav » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:48 pm

The girls I helped ( except a girlfriend and she was one for 8 years) did not suck me. I did not screw them. Most were virgins. And I have been contributing to a Buddhist temple. In Japan. Also I went on a pilgrimage to India in 2007 and helped a local school.
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Postby Winston » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:38 am

ladislav wrote:Winston,your observations are well noted and I will be more considerate next time. In the meantime, I think I owe you P200. Can I pay it to you in cellphone loads?


Nah that's ok. I'm just saying that it's unusual that you seem to treat total strangers who are only around temporarily better than you do your real long time friends.

You aren't required to be generous to anyone, whether they are your friends or total strangers. I was just pointing out that you seem unusual in that you are willing splurge a lot of money for total strangers, yet for your real friends you don't even offer to buy them drinks or anything, like most guys do. It's like you treat strangers you just met better than your real long-time friends. Most people do the opposite, they are far more generous to their real friends than to total strangers, or at least are generous equally to both. Or if they are stingy, they are stingier to the stranger than to the friend, or they are stingy to both strangers and friends. But you are the first I've seen that is generous to strangers but not to friends, at least from what I've seen. I'm not saying you owe your friends any generosity, but any guy who splurges a lot, especially 24k, is usually generous to his friends too, offering to buy them drinks and dinner when they meet. Even poor guys do that, including me. For example, I'm about to see one of my long time best friends (we've been close since 2001) in Portland soon, and I usually treat him to dinner since he is poorer than me. Most people do that. But you're the first I've seen to have a ton of money to spare and only want to spend it on total strangers but not your real friends.

I'm not saying that's wrong, for it's your choice. It's just highly unusual and seems "upside down" that you are more generous to strangers than your own true friends, you know what I mean?
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Postby Winston » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:41 am

Jackal wrote:18-year-old Russian girls and 19-year-old hill tribe girls might also suck your dick in the future. Buddhist monks and nuns will not.

I applaud your altruism, Ladislav, but if you truly want to give with no strings attached for the sake of producing good karma for yourself and others, then you might also want to donate money to charities and religious organizations sometime.

Have you heard about the Maitreya Project in India? A Buddhist organization is going to build a huge statue of Maitreya, an important Buddhist deity, in Kushinagar, India, and they are already running schools and hospitals for the poor local children there.

http://www.maitreyaproject.org/en/donate/index.html
http://www.maitreyaproject.org/en/project/index.html

If you donate money to build a Buddhist temple or statue, you will continue to accumulate good karma in this life and your next lives for as long as even a speck of these structures still stands. There are also many other organizations which could use your support.


Might I add that spiritual people say that if you help or donate to charity, that you should do it and not tell anyone. Cause if you tell others, you decrease the good karma you would attain from it. You get the best karma when you do good deeds in secret without letting everyone know about it.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

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Postby ladislav » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:11 am

Might I add that spiritual people say that if you help or donate to charity, that you should do it and not tell anyone. Cause if you tell others, you decrease the good karma you would attain from it. You get the best karma when you do good deeds in secret without letting everyone know about it.


I think if you do so in a bragging fashion to show the world how great you are, then definitely you will reduce the good karma. If you show it to others as an example of what to do and where/how, and that encourages others to do the same, then, your good karma should increase. Mother Theresa did not keep her work a secret and she inspired milions around the world to help the poor. Is she going to have her karma reduced when she made reports of her charitable works to various organizations around the world?

Also, when you are unfairly being accused of being selfish and that you never do anything for others and you say- "I beg to differ" and make a full report of the things you have done for others, heavenly gods will most probably understand your intentions and not cut your good karma indiscriminately.

And even if they do, what is the problem? Virtue is its own reward!
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Re: Just got back from Russia

Postby momopi » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:57 pm

ladislav wrote:This past year has not been very lucky for me: I was turned down for a loan to invest in a couple of houses in NY because I did not have a US- based job. It did not used to be that way but banks just stopped lending to people like myself. I was working in Saudi Arabia, and making good money, so WTF?. At the same time, my mom's ( and my house) in Ca. lost almost half a million in equity since the beginning of the recession. What better time can there be to just say- screw everything and everyone and just take your money and live it up like there is no tomorrow?


If you have some cash to play with, you can try p2p micro-finance. Examples:
http://www.prosper.com/
http://www.lendingclub.com/home.action
http://pertuitydirect.com/default.aspx

Start SMALL and loan to the lowest risk category first. The higher risk cartegory offers very high returns, but only because they have higher default rate.
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Postby ladislav » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:59 am

Winston, thank you for your observations. While I am a very conflict avoiding person, at times I would like to clarify certain things. Things are not always what they seem.
The lesbo girls you saw me with were not strangers at all. They were not whores. Who would they be whoring to? Other girls? I had known them for months and months when you met me. And they are miserably poor but very good people. We had great times together, although not sexually. Except for my watching them snug up and make out with each other. They are still girls, though, and I was taught at an early age to be helpful to girls. That is just how I am. I am still in touch with them. Actually, Hanna, the innocent looking one who is bisexual has been knocked up. I took her to dinner when I was in AC last time. She never ever asked me for a penny. A very proud and good person, too. The three of them were very sweet and we all got along very well. Clarissa, the skinny one has been texting me as well. She is a big joker and sends me oodles of Tagalog jokes to make me laugh. She is a very dear person to me, too.They can’t speak English well but they are in their country and I respect them and talk to them in Tagalog only. If you could understand them in Tagalog, you would see what nice people they were and how pleasant their company is.
I do help friends as well, but most of my Western friends are self sufficient and proud and do not want me to foot the bill for them. They can take care of themselves and they prefer for us to go Dutch. Treating someone like yourself or other American guys in AC to dinner did not occur to me because I see you as my equal(s) who is (are) capable as my equals to pay for themselves. While I do realize that your income may be smaller than mine in monthly terms, you are an American guy with infinitely more opportunities than many Filipino/as who can never even hope to get the visa to go to richer countries and make money without special education or huge placement fees.
It never even crossed my mind that you would expect me to help you with dinner expenses. Because you, just like myself can go and work in many countries or on ships and make the same money as myself. In fact, I see you as a more fortunate person because you are a dual national and you can have opportunities in TW as a citizen there. While I am a mono-national only. You even showed us pictures of your family’s two houses. Well, my family also has two houses, although the equity has been wiped out by the recession. Ultimately your family’s net worth may be even bigger than mine although, admittedly, I am not sure of that. Also, you have been able to actually live and have a family in RP. Another great feat! While you may not possibly have the same cash at your disposal, you have the financial wisdom to be able to pull off all of those things, have an apartment and a child. To me, you are a successful man. Same with a lot of guys who are living in RP just like you. These guys are all my equals. Sure, I can treat guys to a dinner and I will do so next time. Why not? But I am used to going Dutch with equals. Especially, with other Americans.
Another thing to keep in mind: you do not see under what conditions I have to work in these hot as-hell Middle Eastern countries. Long stretches of very lonely time, far worse than in the US. Far worse.
They are not easy to live in. You just come and try hanging in here for a few months. You can have the same cash as myself but all this comes at a heavy price- months and years of your life in hostile, terrorist infested lands.
Also, certain habits are formed while one is here in the Gulf. They pay well here. Small moneys become insignificant. Even a hundred dollars is something you throw around like it was a dollar. All that is seen as Ok while one is here, but when one goes to RP, his habits appear extravagant to people like yourself. But that is only on vacations that such behavior is displayed. When I am back here, I am back in my thrifty mode more or less and splurge only occasionally. Otherwise, how could I have saved the money to go on all these vacations?
And keep in mind that if one is cooped up in these sandy, oil-filled Arab monarchies with hellish heat half of the year, no pretty women, or no women at all, draconian laws and restrictions of all kinds, when one gets to the PI, one goes totally crazy. One does not think straight like you do. Please give me an allowance for that. Until you have been here yourself, it would be very hard for you to relate to my behavior.
Another thing to keep in mind is while I act and arguably look young, I am going to be 50 next year. I do not have the same years ahead of me as you do. I need to save for retirement as well as have fun because it may soon be too late. When you get to be that age and realize that you do not have that many years left in life, you want to make certain dreams come true before you are too old or, well, dead. You want to catch up on your goals. I have seen my relatives save and save for some future date and then , just die. All their plans- turned to nothing. My cousin’s husband, my other cousin, even my father, who was postponing things over and over again and again, died of a stroke without having fulfilled many of his dreams because he was scrimping and saving and hoping that yes, next year I would do this and that, and then, again put it off until yet another year and then bang!, he was gone. My father was going to buy a house in Crimea and then he died. Next year, next year, oops! Dead as a door nail. I went to Crimea in his place.
I have also had people, friends and family who had been very thrifty and careful and now are poor or deeply in debt because of the recession. All their investments - down the tube! $30K of hard earned money gone up in smoke. $60 K- poof! And these were very intelligent people who would always give me advice.
For me to go to Turkey, to Jordan, to Ukraine to see the hospital where I was born, to see the school I went to, and to Russia again to see the apartment building I had not seen for 31 years were dreams that I ‘d nurtured for decades. This summer was the time to make them come true. If not then, when? Also, I had to help people who were in dire situations, I mean really bad situations. I could not refuse help to such people. And I have been able to change entire destinies of human beings who, otherwise, would have gone down a very bad path against their will. Some may have even died.
We all have different priorities, but do try and walk a mile in my moccasins.
However, next time a dinner is on me, be sure of that.
PS: And I did help guys. I bought books for a school in India. Mostly boys there. Also, I have sent stranded people back to their islands when in Cebu. Guys. I used to bring entire trucks of homeless people to have lunch. Mostly men. But these people were real miserados. They had nothing!
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Re: Just got back from Russia

Postby ladislav » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:05 am

momopi wrote:
ladislav wrote:This past year has not been very lucky for me: I was turned down for a loan to invest in a couple of houses in NY because I did not have a US- based job. It did not used to be that way but banks just stopped lending to people like myself. I was working in Saudi Arabia, and making good money, so WTF?. At the same time, my mom's ( and my house) in Ca. lost almost half a million in equity since the beginning of the recession. What better time can there be to just say- screw everything and everyone and just take your money and live it up like there is no tomorrow?


If you have some cash to play with, you can try p2p micro-finance. Examples:
http://www.prosper.com/
http://www.lendingclub.com/home.action
http://pertuitydirect.com/default.aspx

Start SMALL and loan to the lowest risk category first. The higher risk cartegory offers very high returns, but only because they have higher default rate.


Thanks, again, Momopi. But please tell me, how can one make a liveable income with these clubs and how much money one needs for that. Please give a feasible scenario.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

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