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The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Discuss conspiracies, mysteries and paranormal phenomena.

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gsjackson
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » December 7th, 2017, 11:00 am

Cornfed wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 3:37 am
HouseMD wrote:
December 6th, 2017, 11:42 pm

Aside from the relative ease by which one can visit, you can also easily get jobs in Antarctica, as few people want to work there and they are always hiring for everything from janitors to bartenders at the research bases.
How would being a bartender at a research base allow you to test the theory of whether it was the end of the earth?
Full disclosure (as I would hope all FEers would practice): One of the FEers, Rob Skiba, says he has talked to someone who worked as a cook in Antarctica, who had flown between locations there. The flight times appear to make more sense on a globe map than a FE map.

Skiba's, and my remaining reservations center around the map of the southern hemisphere. There apparently are direct flights between Sydney and Santiago, Chile, taking between 11.5 and 14.5 hours. On the usual FE maps you see the distance between them is too far to be flown in that time. You'd need Australia and South America to be a little bit closer. Some online have shown revised maps where this would work, and one guy made the flight with his compass, which always pointed northwest, as a flat earth map would suggest. All FEers agree that an obviously correct map has never been put forward, and the one you usually see is simply a reproduction of the UN logo.

Meanwhile, in the world of astrophysics settled science, a new black hole has been discovered that is 13.1 billion light years away from earth. It's all right there in that sky you see, plain as day (to the cognoscenti). You have simply but to believe with a childlike faith.

Adama
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by Adama » December 7th, 2017, 5:08 pm

gsjackson wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 11:00 am
Meanwhile, in the world of astrophysics settled science, a new black hole has been discovered that is 13.1 billion light years away from earth. It's all right there in that sky you see, plain as day (to the cognoscenti). You have simply but to believe with a childlike faith.
Don't forget that mysterious dark matter, which is lurking out there, increasing the mass of the universe and slowing it down!

OutWest
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by OutWest » December 7th, 2017, 5:18 pm

gsjackson wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 3:26 am
What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

Can you give me a quote" Article VII, section one is talking about observers beng put in place to oversee treaty compliance.

"Article VII

1. In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment. "

gsjackson
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » December 7th, 2017, 7:22 pm

OutWest wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 5:18 pm
gsjackson wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 3:26 am
What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

Can you give me a quote" Article VII, section one is talking about observers beng put in place to oversee treaty compliance.

"Article VII

1. In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment. "
Standard statutory construction -- if the state is given the prerogative to designate observers, it is implied that those not so designated do not have that right. And that is in fact the case in Antarctica.

OutWest
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by OutWest » December 7th, 2017, 11:14 pm

gsjackson wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 7:22 pm
OutWest wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 5:18 pm
gsjackson wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 3:26 am
What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

Can you give me a quote" Article VII, section one is talking about observers beng put in place to oversee treaty compliance.

"Article VII

1. In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment. "
Standard statutory construction -- if the state is given the prerogative to designate observers, it is implied that those not so designated do not have that right. And that is in fact the case in Antarctica.
Because you cannot be named an official Antarctic Treaty compliance observer, it means you can not go to Antarctic at all? That is an amazing stretch! Thousands of people a year go to the Antarctic a year that are certainly not treaty compliance observing officials...tourists, various scientific groups, environmental groups and extreme sports addicts.

gsjackson
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » December 8th, 2017, 5:55 am

OutWest wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 11:14 pm
gsjackson wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 7:22 pm
OutWest wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 5:18 pm
gsjackson wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 3:26 am
What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

Can you give me a quote" Article VII, section one is talking about observers beng put in place to oversee treaty compliance.

"Article VII

1. In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment. "
Standard statutory construction -- if the state is given the prerogative to designate observers, it is implied that those not so designated do not have that right. And that is in fact the case in Antarctica.
Because you cannot be named an official Antarctic Treaty compliance observer, it means you can not go to Antarctic at all? That is an amazing stretch! Thousands of people a year go to the Antarctic a year that are certainly not treaty compliance observing officials...tourists, various scientific groups, environmental groups and extreme sports addicts.
Oh come on. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No one -- whether someone going on one of the pre-arranged tours, being employed there, going as a scientific observer, etc. -- goes there without the approval of the government of which he is a citizen. "Compliance observer" is your language. It is not in the treaty. If you go to Antarctica to explore it, you will need the approval of the U.S. government. Period.

OutWest
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by OutWest » December 8th, 2017, 9:33 am

gsjackson wrote:
December 8th, 2017, 5:55 am
OutWest wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 11:14 pm
gsjackson wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 7:22 pm
OutWest wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 5:18 pm
gsjackson wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 3:26 am
What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

Can you give me a quote" Article VII, section one is talking about observers beng put in place to oversee treaty compliance.

"Article VII

1. In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment. "
Standard statutory construction -- if the state is given the prerogative to designate observers, it is implied that those not so designated do not have that right. And that is in fact the case in Antarctica.
Because you cannot be named an official Antarctic Treaty compliance observer, it means you can not go to Antarctic at all? That is an amazing stretch! Thousands of people a year go to the Antarctic a year that are certainly not treaty compliance observing officials...tourists, various scientific groups, environmental groups and extreme sports addicts.
Oh come on. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No one -- whether someone going on one of the pre-arranged tours, being employed there, going as a scientific observer, etc. -- goes there without the approval of the government of which he is a citizen. "Compliance observer" is your language. It is not in the treaty. If you go to Antarctica to explore it, you will need the approval of the U.S. government. Period.

"In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment."


In this paragraph is clearly states that signatory countries have the right to appoint observers to conduct inspections as defined in the treaty in order to ensure the observance of provisions of the treaty. If "ensuring the observations of the provisions of the treaty" is not about compliance, you command of the language is suspect. Im quoting from the treaty. Tell me, seriously, that "Ensuring the observations of the provisions of the treaty" is not about COMPLIANCE. You are losing it. And no, everyone who goes to Antarctica is not an appointed treaty observer.
All this, just about your imaginary 100,000 mile long ice wall and a host of other crazy shit. Documenting such would be the story of the century, but flat earthers can't seem to find anything south of the equator because they are following the delusional maps. It is simple geometry. Southern hemisphere navigation would be so far off that all transport calculations based on the globe would be drastically off if the flat earth were a fact. Airplanes could not even carry enough fuel for what are now already long trips. Ships and airplanes would run out of fuel. Many millions of square miles of land would be created in Africa, Australia and South America. Just imagine a flat earth country of Chile...a 100 miles wide at the north and a thousand miles wide at the south. It would be shaped like a pyramid.Apparently tens of thousands of people turned away from visiting the Antarctic, you just cant find any of these people.

gsjackson
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » December 8th, 2017, 10:30 am

One of the first things you would learn in law school is to read a statute by looking at "the four corners of the document." That means you read all of it, and construe it in that context. Read sections 2, 3, 4 and 5 of Article VII, and tell me these people are designated only as a sort of compliance police, or whatever the hell you're arguing. The people so designated in Article VII are the ones who get to explore Antarctica, and they are the only ones.

The circumference of the earth is estimated by FEers to be somewhere around 50,000+ miles, which corresponds with Capt. Cook's diary about attempting to sail around it, including sailing from England. Not 100,000, as you say. You're just making shit up.

OutWest
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by OutWest » December 8th, 2017, 7:35 pm

gsjackson wrote:
December 8th, 2017, 10:30 am
One of the first things you would learn in law school is to read a statute by looking at "the four corners of the document." That means you read all of it, and construe it in that context. Read sections 2, 3, 4 and 5 of Article VII, and tell me these people are designated only as a sort of compliance police, or whatever the hell you're arguing. The people so designated in Article VII are the ones who get to explore Antarctica, and they are the only ones.

The circumference of the earth is estimated by FEers to be somewhere around 50,000+ miles, which corresponds with Capt. Cook's diary about attempting to sail around it, including sailing from England. Not 100,000, as you say. You're just making shit up.
Hilarious to hear a flat earther talk about making shit up! I double checked, The navigationally useless flat earth fabricated maps tend to depict an Antarctic circumference of 60,000 to 78,000 miles. Tens of thousands of people visit Antarctica every year just from Argentina, New Zealand and Antarctica. No permission from the USA required. More would be coming from those places but they are busy exploring the millions if square miles of additional land that flat earthers created out of thin air. ..making shit up?
A flat earth map should be much easier to create than a globe map...

gsjackson
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » December 8th, 2017, 7:57 pm

Obviously you didn't read the statute with any care. Argentinians would be required to get permission from their government, New Zealanders from theirs, not the U.S.

Feel free to cite the sources for the thousands of visitors from Argentina, New Zealand and Antarctica (sic), and the scope of their visits.

According to Eric Dubay, probably the most prominent FEer, the circumference of the earth is 50,000 miles and some. But as I said, there is no settled flat earth map.

HouseMD
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by HouseMD » December 10th, 2017, 5:56 am

Cornfed wrote:
December 7th, 2017, 3:37 am
HouseMD wrote:
December 6th, 2017, 11:42 pm

Aside from the relative ease by which one can visit, you can also easily get jobs in Antarctica, as few people want to work there and they are always hiring for everything from janitors to bartenders at the research bases.
How would being a bartender at a research base allow you to test the theory of whether it was the end of the earth?
You'd be in the mythical place they say you can't go. You'd see basically most of what went in there. You could ask about ongoing research, etc. And you'd get to take in the whole journey there.

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