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Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this...

Discuss conspiracies, mysteries and paranormal phenomena.

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Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this...

Postby Winston » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:38 pm

Ok I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment. Tell me what you think.

Two intellectuals I talked to, a German guy and Darryl Sloan (a public freethinker with a popular YouTube channel at http://www.youtube.com/darrylsloan), told me that they don't believe all this NWO/Illuminati conspiracy stuff on the internet, because "there's never been a better time to be a freethinker than now." Here is the gist of what they said:

"We have more freedom than ever today, esp in the Western world. You can watch and listen to anything you want, believe anything you want, be an Atheist even, etc. and not be arrested for it. Look at you Winston, following all that conspiracy stuff, yet no police or government ever bothers you, harasses you or threatens you. And information is flowing freely all over the internet, more than ever before. 500 years ago, if you didn't believe in God, they'd execute you. But nowadays, you can believe anything you want, and no one harasses you for it. There's never been a greater time to be a freethinker than now.

Also, as a Westerner, you can go to any country you want, as long as you have the money. In ancient times, travel was a lot slower and more tedious and risky. And borders were not open either. But now, planes, trains, buses and vehicles have made travel and transportation easy and convenient. There's never been a better time for international travel than now."


I guess this does make sense. No matter how much conspiracy stuff you follow or get into or attend, no authority ever threatens or harasses you. They simply ignore you. I've never had any trouble from government or police. And as a Westerner, there is no government or police stopping you from going wherever you want, to whatever country you want.

So does that mean all the NWO/Illuminati conspiracy theories about a one world government capturing the world are just paranoia, fantasy and exaggeration?

This brings to mind an interesting quote I found before:

“The reason people find it so hard to be happy is that they always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be.â€￾ - Marcel Pagnol quotes (French Writer, Producer and Film Director, 1895-1974)

This seems so true doesn't it? At any point in history people always seem to reminisce the past as better than it really was (e.g. "the good old days") and make the present out to be worse than it really is, while seeing a bleak future ahead. The media makes it worse by showing you negative news and airing pessimistic views all the time too. I mean, you could pick up a newspaper from 1985 or 1975 and look at the stories in it and it wouldn't be much different than today - it would be filled with news of struggles, economic problems, unemployment, complaints, crimes, wars, anxieties, uncertainty about the future, unstable foreign countries, threatening dictators, etc. So our attitude and negative/pessimistic views don't seem any different long ago as compared to today.

Here's a case in point: For as long as I can remember, the news has been portraying America as having high unemployment and not enough jobs. It's an issue in every Presidential election campaign, and news programs always talk about it as if it's a major problem to worry about. However, if you look in the newspaper classifieds or your local job bulletin board, you will always see many job openings in the help wanted section, of all types. And every time I have gone down to the local employment temp agency, they'd have work for me. So WTF?

Even today, with everyone saying that there are no more good jobs left in America, still, you can open any help wanted section in the paper, and see plenty of job openings to apply for, of all types in every category. Even more, many websites on the internet list countless thousands of job openings in every country, including America, all the time everyday. So why is there this constant talk of rising unemployment and no jobs left? WTF? Am I missing something here? (confused look)

The biggest difference between the past and present is that technology has made our life more convenient and efficient, consumerism has gone out of proportion, and family values have eroded with the rise of more materialism. But hey, 20 or 30 years ago, people were complaining about the same things, by the standards of that time as well. The mentality has always been the same, "the present has many problems, the future looks bleak, and things were better in the past."

Sure there is corruption, lies, cover ups, and conspiracies. And the US government has turned into a total a-hole after 9/11 and become a war mongering control freak and exploited others. But what's new? The US government and politicians have never been "goody two shoes" anyway. That's a myth, based on the tendency of remembering the past as better than it was. The truth is, the US government has always been a warmongerer, exploiter and a-hole. In the 1800's, they killed many Indians and Mexicans, stole their land, and broke promises and agreements. They stole Hawaii from the Hawaiians, enslaved other countries, engaged in corruption, etc. So what's new? People with power have always abused it and done evil things - lies, murder, crime, corruption, exploitation, you name it. This has been true all throughout history. How is it any different today?

So think about all that. Could we all be deluded with paranoia, pessimism, negativity in our minds, which makes us exaggerate the present state of affairs as worse than it really is, at least in the Western world?

Look at your life. The police don't bother you unless you've committed a real crime. The government ignores you. Heck you couldn't get the government's attention even if you tried - it simply doesn't have time to waste on you, unless you've committed a real crime. And no one is trying to arrest you for saying what's on your mind or believing what you do. So aren't you a lot better off than people who were arrested, persecuted or executed in the past for believing forbidden things? If so, why then do you see the current world as a terrible place with a bleak future? Look all around you: Food is everywhere. Conveniences are everywhere. Vehicles and aircraft are there to take you anywhere in the world. Sure there are problems, just as there have always been, and life is a struggle, just as it has always been. But as long as you have adequate food and shelter, you are well off, better than 3/4 of the world. So why is your mindset so negative, paranoid, and pessimistic? You gotta wonder...

Does all this make sense? I know I'm playing devil's advocate here. But the above points are logical and true, at least in your everyday life, aren't they?

Suggestions:

Instead of trying to change or awaken the world, why don't you try to teach people to think for themselves and make better choices in their life, so they can have more freedom, happiness, peace of mind, and less stress? Teach and encourage others to be more spiritual and eliminate unnecessary junk from their lives. That's how you can really help others, rather than telling them about some "boogeyman in the shadows" or grand conspiracy and dystopia to worry about in the future which they can't do anything about even if true. That's all we can really do, is to take control over our own lives and our own minds, which are the only things we truly have sovereignty over.

Of course, we are all slaves to money, just as we have always been ever since the barter system was replaced with money. However, consider this: No one is making you buy that expensive house or car. No one is making you take that stressful job to make ends meet. No one is making you accrue debt. Of course, our materialistic culture attempts to condition you to do those things. But you can always choose not to accept this conditioning by exercising your free will. Instead, you can make wise choices to live simply, and more spiritually, with less expenses and little or no debt. You can make smarter decisions that will lead to LESS financial burdens and thus become LESS enslaved to money. No one is forcing you not to.

Another sensible option is to live overseas in countries where the cost of living is a fraction of what it is in the Western world. Although this is a taboo option that may appear unpatriotic, in reality there are already millions of Americans living happily overseas with a lower cost of living and less financial burdens. Living outside of the Western world may sound extreme and unconventional, but it works for many. It's just that you never hear anything positive about it in the mainstream media, which isn't surprising anyway since the media feeds on negativity and are out to portray everything in the worst possible light. Therefore, they are the worst source available for info on life and the world.
Last edited by Winston on Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:06 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby Falcon » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:58 pm

The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined
http://www.amazon.com/The-Better-Angels ... 0670022950
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Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby PeterAndrewNolan » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:09 pm

Winston,

“No matter how much conspiracy stuff you follow or get into or attend, no authority ever threatens or harasses you. They simply ignore you. I've never had any trouble from government or police. And as a Westerner, there is no government or police stopping you from going wherever you want, to whatever country you want.â€￾


If you are not being harassed or threatened then you are not actually a threat or dangerous to anyone in a position to be dangerous to you. Those of us who are dangerous to the ruling elite are constantly under some form of attack. Many of my colleagues have been jailed. Some have been bashed by police while in jail.


This is what you are looking for.

“There are none so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.â€￾


One point is that air travel is a new phenomenon as is cheap telecommunications. These things make it easier to travel. But before WW I there was no such thing as a passport as we know it today. In days gone past they were merely documents to describe that the holder had the blessing of the king to travel. Who knows how easily they could be forged with no photography. Passports today are tools of enslavement because people see “border patrolâ€￾ as having the right to violate a persons right of travel. They have no such right but the sheeple let them violate their right of travel anyway.

Further. With respect to freedom you are talking about the Illuminati controlled WESTERN WORLD. You are ignoring the freedom of North America, South America, Australia and the like. In those countries the Illuminati did not rule for many thousands of years. The peoples in those countries got along just fine without the Illuminatis good help.

It was only when the Illuminati controlled Europeans turned up that those “savagesâ€￾ were “savedâ€￾ by being turned into Christians or murdered if they did not. The European powers slaughter untold hundreds of millions and plundered their lands and still do. This is what the “freedom and democracyâ€￾ of the west is built on. The blood and bones of endless millions in other areas of the world. It might just be time to make remedy, do you not think?

The control grid is changing…that is all. In the past the major factors of the control grid where language, religion, race, distance. They divided us into pens called Lands and then set us to war with each other on a regular basis and that built distrust and animosity. In those circumstandes no one would WANT to travel. How many English would want to travel to France or Spain given the religious wars since Henry 8th? Especially when any French man or Spanish man might pick you for English and kill you on the spot?

Same for wales, Ireland and scottland. In days gone past an English man was taking his life in his hands wandering these lands.

The Illuminati, for some reason, introduced high tech in the period 1800 to now. I do not know why though people like Michael Tsarion have their own opinions about that. They are migrating to a new kind of tyranny. A technotronic tyranny that will be every bit as bad if not worse than what went before.

The construction of this control grid is all but complete and most people do not even know it. Laptops, windows, mobile phones, google, email, means that it is now virtually impossible to organise a resistance against a tyrannical guvment without the guvment knowing about it. Any correspondence by hand has got to be immediately suspect as there is almost NO REASON for two people to correspond by hand now.

The reason only those of us who are on the right track are being offered jobs or harassed is because we are the only ones who can stop what they are doing. So few people understand the precarious and almost irreversible position that we are in that the Illuminati are hiding right out in the open now.

If you think this little taste of “the good lifeâ€￾ from 1950 to 2000 in the west what the world will look like if the Illuminati are successful in transition I have news for you.

It is very possible that this VERY SHORT period of relative wealth was allowed in the west so that the sheeple would be “too fat and happyâ€￾ to be bothered to stop the implementation of the next tyranny that can not be overthrown.

Aldus Huxley talked about this in the 50s and 60. He talked about how tyranny by force always begets rebellion in the end. And he said that they were working on tyranny by technology that would seem to be impossible to overthrow.

Any person who REALLY knows what is going on knows they have all the infrastructure in place now…and it only took 50 years to do it. A very short time indeed.

If men like me are not successful? Our grand children will live in a tyranny that will make soviet Russia look like a picnic and they will LOVE their tyrants with a passion.

“If you want to know the future picture a boot stamping on a human face forever.â€￾

If a man is not extremely concerned at the state of the western world he is ignorant and stupid or he is an arsehole that does not care about the children of his land. And that is 99.9% of men in the west right now. Ignorant and or stupid and or an arsehole.
Last edited by PeterAndrewNolan on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Billy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:10 pm

Winston, yes that´s it. :). Are you going to change your views?
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Postby Bane » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:14 pm

Winston,

I think it's good that you are listening to what these folks are saying. I have my doubts about the whole NWO/Illuminati/Bildeberg(sp) thing. I get my doubts from listening to folks like Alex Jones and other personalities who I believe are not exactly being sincere in what they say.

Are there serious problems in the world today? You bet. Is everything rosy and peachy with the world? Absolutely not. Does the American pop culture and dating scene suck? No question about it. But I think it's a little far fetched to blame it all on some mysterious spooky shadow organization that controls the lives of SEVEN BILLION humans down to the finest detail.

Anyway, good for you, Winston! I am happy that you are taking the opinions of these people into consideration. It is the true mark of a mature freethinker!
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Postby MrPeabody » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:21 pm

I know I am listening to an idiot as soon as I hear the word "Illuminati". As I mentioned before, I first heard of this term in the 1960s and it is a John Birch Society conspiracy theory that has been recycled by some cleaver Internet shysters. However, I do think we have less freedom in America due to the over regulation by the liberals. I remember being 10 years old on my fathers lap and he would let me drive the car while we were going 80 miles an hour on a dirt road. Today he would be put in prison for child endangerment. Back then it was no big deal. There are hundreds of cases a day of encroachment on our freedom. Recently, there was a case of a photographer who was fined because he refused to photograph a lesbian couple as this was against his religious beliefs. That's not to free, is it? A business can't choose who it wants as a customer. There are hundreds of cases like that every day. And just look at the airports - you use to be able to just walk on a plane. Now you are practically strip searched and x-rayed. How could anyone see this as more freedom? And now they are starting to role out the drones. You haven't seen anything yet. Imagine walking down the street and accidently dropping something and you get mailed a ticket from a drone for littering along with the picture as evidence. With the advent of technology and terrorism as a pretext, we are going to be watched and regulated at every moment. As Kaczynski explained in his thesis, technology makes this inevitable.
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Postby PeterAndrewNolan » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:18 am

MrPeabody wrote:I know I am listening to an idiot as soon as I hear the word "Illuminati". As I mentioned before, I first heard of this term in the 1960s and it is a John Birch Society conspiracy theory that has been recycled by some cleaver Internet shysters.

Wow...talk about willful ignorance. The Illuminati do not deny what they are up to.

They actually talk openly about it.

"A total world population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."—Ted Turner, in an interview with Audubon magazine

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_zNFuVaqTI[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmzeYYWntxw[/youtube]
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Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby Jester » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:14 am

Winston wrote:So does that mean all the NWO/Illuminati conspiracy theories about a one world government capturing the world are just paranoia, fantasy and exaggeration?


Yeah right.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIU5P-j9hRs[/youtube]
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Postby Winston » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:35 am

Billy wrote:Winston, yes that´s it. :). Are you going to change your views?


Depends on what you mean by "change your views".

Just because there is no NWO/Illuminati conspiracy (which we can't rule out completely either) doesn't mean that there aren't conspiracies. It doesn't mean that there is no shadow government. It doesn't mean that the official version of every event presented by the government/media is the only valid truth there is. (Is that what you believe?)

There are many secrets in government, secret societies, and whistleblowers that testify to them. Many events do point to a conspiracy. For example, the official 9/11 story contains over 10 claims that are scientifically and logically impossible, which should raise many red flags that we were not told the truth about it. The JFK and RFK Assassinations contain much evidence suggesting that it was not just a simple case of a "lone nut". There are even whistleblowers testifying to it.

In addition, the existence of a shadow government is highly plausible and probable. And we are being fed propaganda all the time, no doubt. The government has been caught lying many times (e.g. death of Pat Tillman, rescue of Jessica Lynch, the faking of the Gulf of Tonkin incident which started the Vietnam War, etc.) so how can you know when they are lying or not? Why believe whatever they say and take it on faith? On what basis? Authority is not truth. And just because everyone around you believes in something, doesn't make it true.

So you see, conspiracies aren't black and white. You can't say that they are all false or all true. It's not that simple. You got to take each claim or event and evaluate the evidence pertaining to it. Don't you agree?

Besides, at elite levels of government, banking and secret societies, how do you know what's going on? How do you know what they are plotting? How can you say that they are plotting nothing and that there are no secrets? You can't really know that, can you?

Bane wrote:Winston,

I think it's good that you are listening to what these folks are saying. I have my doubts about the whole NWO/Illuminati/Bildeberg(sp) thing. I get my doubts from listening to folks like Alex Jones and other personalities who I believe are not exactly being sincere in what they say.

Are there serious problems in the world today? You bet. Is everything rosy and peachy with the world? Absolutely not. Does the American pop culture and dating scene suck? No question about it. But I think it's a little far fetched to blame it all on some mysterious spooky shadow organization that controls the lives of SEVEN BILLION humans down to the finest detail.

Anyway, good for you, Winston! I am happy that you are taking the opinions of these people into consideration. It is the true mark of a mature freethinker!


How do you know that Alex Jones isn't a plant put there to discredit the conspiracy movement? He overacts on every little point, as though he's trying hard to look like a nut case.

David Icke says wonderful things. But he is so smooth and polished, as though every point he makes is rehearsed and practiced. Furthermore, how could a man with arthritis in one hand type up a 700 page book every few years? That doesn't add up, and no one on his forum can explain it. Is someone else writing his books? Is he sitting on a couch dictating while a transcriber takes down everything he says? If so, why does no one know about it? How does he get away with speaking on world tours?

How do you know these folks aren't leading you into another direction out of the way?

How do you know you aren't being manipulated?

Have you heard of Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"? There are even two films about it (which are available on YouTube). How do you know we aren't headed in that direction? We can't really know what's being planned for us can we?
Last edited by Winston on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby pitbul » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:34 pm

the world is alot less free than it was even 30 years ago. i remember 20 years ago, you could sell whatever bootleg stuff you wanted in taiwan, and hong kong. you could sell fake nike shirts. hong kong used to have bootleg videos all over the place. you could get microsoft windows for $1. fast forward to today, and taiwan has nearly stomped out all bootleg industries. they dont sell fake gucci hand bags, or anything like that. no bootleg dvds, no bootleg windows, no nothing. the corporations have total control. you cant even upload hollywood films onto mainland Chinese websites anymore. only a couple of years ago, you could upload whatever you wanted onto youku, and tudou. it becomes obvious that western multinational corporate reach has extended to as far as mainland China now. and if the western multinational corporations had their way, mainland China will become as fascist as hong kong and taiwan. 30 years ago, you could sell stuff on the street in america, and other western countries without getting arrested by the cops. today, you cant sell things on the street. there was a story a few months ago about how some brit got arrested for saying this on facebook "why is it that each time i turn on the news i only see brits getting killed, i never see Iraqis or Afgans getting killed by british soldiers". there are lots of other examples. if you want to see exactly how fascist our world is today, take a look at this page, written by a tagger who was arrested for spray painting graffiti. understand this, the tagger knew the cops were looking for her, and escaped to europe to hide out for a few months. upon return, the cops were waiting for her at the airport and arrested her. it's quite disturbing that the pigs would go through all that trouble to arrest a tagger, and whats even more odd is that they went through all that trouble to throw her in jail for only a year. i dont think that 30 years ago, cops would have done something this radical. here is her story http://www.utahether.com/2011/02/09/paperwork-wednesday-week-1/comment-page-3/#comments
the way i generally measure how free a society is, is to look at how much influence corporations have. the more influence a corporation has, the less free the society is. from about 1980-1995, the prison population in the united states doubled, and is continuing to increase. the same trends can be seen throughout the western world, in the european union, australia, new zealand, and canada. here is also another interesting story. check out the story of this Chinaman who was supposedly killed by u.s cops. i think it tells us something is very wrong with the justice system. http://www.myspace.com/587872844/blog/545891100 nowadays, the u.s regime arrests kids and tries then as adults. 40, or 50 years ago, kids were tried as kids. you can even get the death sentence if you comit a crime as a child in the u.s.. 20 years ago, if you walked around taiwan, you would hardly see anyone wearing name brand clothes. walk around taiwan today, and you see nothing but name brand clothes. it just goes to show what kind of a strangle hold the corporations have got on people these days. back in the day, there were countries that openly defied the u.s, and europe. nowadays, anyone that doesnt cooperate with the u.s, and europe gets terorised like Syria. i dont think there are very many countries out there nowadays with an independent economic policy.
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Postby Jester » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:11 pm

pitbul wrote:the way i generally measure how free a society is, is to look at how much influence corporations have. the more influence a corporation has, the less free the society is.


Wise. Good litmus test.

Any ideas where corporations have less influence?
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Postby MrPeabody » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:47 pm

Winston wrote:
Billy wrote:Winston, yes that´s it. :). Are you going to change your views?


Depends on what you mean by "change your views".

Just because there is no NWO/Illuminati conspiracy (which we can't rule out completely either) doesn't mean that there aren't conspiracies. It doesn't mean that there is no shadow government. It doesn't mean that the official version of every event presented by the government/media is the only valid truth there is. (Is that what you believe?)

There are many secrets in government, secret societies, and whistleblowers that testify to them. Many events do point to a conspiracy. For example, the official 9/11 story contains over 10 claims that are scientifically and logically impossible, which should raise many red flags that we were not told the truth about it. The JFK and RFK Assassinations contain much evidence suggesting that it was not just a simple case of a "lone nut". There are even whistleblowers testifying to it.



I


I still think Chomsky's methodology is the most reliable to finding the truth. Chomsky draws most of his conclusions from public documents produced by the government, many that have been obtained from the freedom of information act. If the big boys are going to do something, at some point they have to put it in a public document, pass laws, etc. They are too big to hide their footprints. There is plenty of terrible stuff out there that has already been admitted by the government, but the controlled mass media never reports it. Speculating about unprovable theories is just entertainment. Also, Chomsky doesn't believe that 9/11 was an inside job. This, despite the fact that Chomsky is the government's biggest critic and he has gone to jail many times for protesting.
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Postby PeterAndrewNolan » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:32 pm

Winston,
I video recorded a man commit the crime of impersonating an Australian Federal Magistrate. This was served onto Kevin Rudd and Robert McClelland (attorney general) in december 2009. It was later served onto ALL federal members and all NSW members.

That NOTHING was done about this...that they are blocking this into Australia and staying silent even though publicly denounced as criminals should tell you everything you need to know. The politicians and legal fraternity are in a conspiracy to maintain their control. That necessarily then includes all arms of government as well as all aspects of "regulation" which are supposedly overseen by the judiciary...which I have proven are criminals.

Anyone who denies that the entire global legal system is a criminal cartel is simply ignorant.

I flew around the world and risked my life to get this 40 minutes of video. And what do men do? Ignore it.

For this alone men should be willing to re-imburse the expenses I incurred handsomely....it is the ABSOLUTE PROOF of the criminality of the courts...it is actually a priceless piece of video. The ONLY piece of its type in the world taken inside a family court situation and put onto youtube.

I really do wish other men would post it far and wide. 1,000 views is not nearly enough.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1IDkx2CtrE[/youtube]
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Postby MrPeabody » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:57 pm

I liked the part where you call the judge by his first name. The judge was amazingly civilized in his demeanor. I think an American judge would go ballistic or have a heart attack. The situation that men are facing is because of the spread of liberalism and cultural Marxism which casts men as oppressors of women. I too find liberals to be disgusting pigs and want to roll back the laws and culture to the 1950s.
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Postby PeterAndrewNolan » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:26 pm

MrPeabody wrote:I liked the part where you call the judge by his first name. The judge was amazingly civilized in his demeanor. I think an American judge would go ballistic or have a heart attack. The situation that men are facing is because of the spread of liberalism and cultural Marxism which casts men as oppressors of women. I too find liberals to be disgusting pigs and want to roll back the laws and culture to the 1950s.


The point is he was not a "magistrate". The point is that he was committing the crime of impersonating a public officer. He was, indeed, the same as a burger flipper at McDonalds.

I just did this again in Germany but there were so many witnesses I did not record it.
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