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Jon Ronson on conspiracies

Discuss conspiracies, mysteries and paranormal phenomena.

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Postby abcdavid01 » Sat May 31, 2014 4:13 am

I agree with fschmidt on this one. I've always held there's a kind of decentralized corruption that many people view as a comprehensive conspiracy because it's easier for most people to understand.
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Postby Winston » Sat May 31, 2014 8:11 am

fschmidt wrote:
Winston wrote:Ok then here is David Icke's lecture at the Oxford Union Debating Society that I told you about. It is almost 2 hours long and is a great introductory overview of his research and message. I know you don't have time for one of his mega 8 hour lectures. So start with this one. And if you like it, then maybe you can see some of his more extensive presentations. This one is perfect for newbies to conspiracy research. Watch all of it and pay attention to all his points. Then tell me whether you think he's crazy or brilliant. You will definitely lean toward the latter after you see this.


I watched one hour of this, and that is enough. I didn't hear one new fact that I didn't know or one practical suggestion. What I heard was his interpretation of facts, which I disagree with. It all seems like a kind of religion, this belief in some mysterious conspiracy. But unlike successful religions, I don't see how this one does any good. It's easy to just blame some elusive elite and do nothing, and that's where this religion leads, and probably why it is popular with modern people whose main goal in life seems to be to seek excuses to do nothing.


Why do you say that? What did David Icke say that was untrue or wrong? Wasn't what he said mostly true? He also presents it in a very brilliant way that makes sense. You should be more objective and at least commend his oratory skills. He has that gift and presents well. Even Rock was impressed by that presentation.

I mean, can you give a public presentation like that? Plus, what he presented is not known by most Americans. So it is valuable and important.

At the end he talks about spirituality and consciousness and that if liberate your consciousness from the imprisonment of the reality they create, you can be free. You must have missed that part. He advocates non-compliance and passive resistance, because as he says, the people at the bottom of the pyramid hold the real power.

What else did you expect? That he would advocate starting an armed revolution?
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Postby Winston » Sat May 31, 2014 8:17 am

abcdavid01 wrote:I agree with fschmidt on this one. I've always held there's a kind of decentralized corruption that many people view as a comprehensive conspiracy because it's easier for most people to understand.


I guess that's plausible too. But isn't that what they would want you to believe? Isn't decentralized corruption the perfect cover?

Plus, how would the "decentralized corruption" theory explain well documented conspiracies like the JFK Assassination, RFK Assassination, MLK Assassination, 9/11, Gulf of Tonkin Incident, False Flag Terror Attacks, GMO's, the covert activities of the CIA, the fake war on drugs, etc.?
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Postby fschmidt » Sat May 31, 2014 8:26 am

Winston wrote:Why do you say that? What did David Icke say that was untrue or wrong? Wasn't what he said mostly true? He also presents it in a very brilliant way that makes sense. You should be more objective and at least commend his oratory skills. He has that gift and presents well. Even Rock was impressed by that presentation.

I mean, can you give a public presentation like that? Plus, what he presented is not known by most Americans. So it is valuable and important.

At the end he talks about spirituality and consciousness and that if liberate your consciousness from the imprisonment of the reality they create, you can be free. You must have missed that part. He advocates non-compliance and passive resistance, because as he says, the people at the bottom of the pyramid hold the real power.

What else did you expect? That he would advocate starting an armed revolution?

David Icke certainly has better presentation skills than I do. If I had only watched 20 minutes, I probably would have made a positive comment about that. But after an hour, I was tired of it.

I agree that what he presented is not known by most Americans. Americans are incredibly ignorant. This makes them susceptible to all kinds of beliefs.

He could have given at least one practical suggestion in the first hour. As a practical guy, I was frustrated that he didn't. So I guess I didn't watch long enough to get to that point.

You know my views, my interpretation of things. But I am not very pushy about belief. As far as I am concerned, people can believe whatever they want as long as it results in positive action. I don't think non-compliance and passive resistance are positive action. But here, this ties into my difference in belief with David Icke. I don't think the problem is some conspiracy, I think it is moral decay. This means that I believe that the required action is something that results in moral groups. To give an example of another belief that I think works, the traditional Christian belief that people are fallen and susceptible to the devil leads to what I would consider positive action. It makes no difference to me that I don't believe those things, I simply approve of those beliefs because they lead to positive action. I disapprove of David Icke's beliefs because they do not lead to positive action.
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Postby Moretorque » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:19 pm

This financial system where they loan us digits at interest to run our economies and bury all in debt just did not happen across the board by unregulated corruption alone.

England and the CITI have been working on this for centuries, there is a nucleus to this thing that is small and runs the entire modern financial system and runs the world for the most part because it runs the economies of the world by running the fiat money system they operate under to facilitate their trade.

It looks like WW3 could be flaring up over this right now. A intelligent society back it's currencies through trade agreements not a middle man who comes in and runs a con.

A conspiracy ???? this thing be stupid, just add more fluoride and finish it off.
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Postby abcdavid01 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:10 pm

Winston wrote:
abcdavid01 wrote:I agree with fschmidt on this one. I've always held there's a kind of decentralized corruption that many people view as a comprehensive conspiracy because it's easier for most people to understand.


I guess that's plausible too. But isn't that what they would want you to believe? Isn't decentralized corruption the perfect cover?

Plus, how would the "decentralized corruption" theory explain well documented conspiracies like the JFK Assassination, RFK Assassination, MLK Assassination, 9/11, Gulf of Tonkin Incident, False Flag Terror Attacks, GMO's, the covert activities of the CIA, the fake war on drugs, etc.?


Well okay, those are all centralized in that they can be attributed to the American government. It just seems a bit too far fetched to me that they would have all been carried out in the service of one goal/plan. A lot of things might lead back to the Rothschilds, but I'm skeptical about trying to create a unified theory to explain everything. I still believe that there are random events in History.
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Postby Jester » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:18 am

Winston wrote:
fschmidt does not claim that conspiracies don't exist, just that some conspiracies are plausible while others are too fantastic.



Right.

No conspiracy can possibly exist unless FSchmidt finds it plausible.

That settles it.

The Illuminati do NOT have any symbolism in music videos etc. Nope.
You can safely ignore what you see here:
http://www.collective-evolution.com/201 ... formances/

The Illuminati simply CAN'T EXIST, even though their existence is historically documented. FSchmidt and other HIGHLY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE simply REFUSE TO BELIEVE IT. Ergo, it AIN'T SO!!

OH, and while we're at it, it's just a COINCIDENCE that all those pederast Roman Catholic priests were covered-up for, transferred, aided and abetted. THERE IS NO SATANIC NETWORK IN THE VATICAN. Take FSchmidt's word for it -- he finds it IMPLAUSIBLE.

And the British Royal Family a nest of Illuminati? IMPLAUSIBLE. HORSESHIT. As you can see from this picture, Prince William is simply a University of Texas football fan:

Image

Case closed!!!!!



8)
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Postby fschmidt » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:32 am

Jester wrote:No conspiracy can possibly exist unless FSchmidt finds it plausible.

Jester, you can believe whatever you want. I never told anyone what to believe. But I am not going to believe in something that I don't find plausible. That's reasonable, right?

My big problem with conspiracy theories isn't the belief, it's the fact that everyone who believes in them does nothing to make the world a better place. This is the main reason why I speak out against conspiracy theories.
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Postby Winston » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:20 am

fschmidt wrote:
Jester wrote:No conspiracy can possibly exist unless FSchmidt finds it plausible.

Jester, you can believe whatever you want. I never told anyone what to believe. But I am not going to believe in something that I don't find plausible. That's reasonable, right?

My big problem with conspiracy theories isn't the belief, it's the fact that everyone who believes in them does nothing to make the world a better place. This is the main reason why I speak out against conspiracy theories.


Well what do you suggest they do? You can't do anything about the conspiracies of the power elite.

Their solution is to raise the spiritual consciousness of the Earth. If you learn about metaphysics you will see that theoretically that is a solution. Look up "hundredth monkey effect" and the Japanese scientist's experiment on how emotions affect water. We are all interconnected so if you raise your consciousness, it will raise that of others as well. This is well documented. The Illuminati know this and that's why they've taken so many steps to LOWER the consciousness of humanity.

This all makes sense if you think about it and research it. Why is that not a remedy to you? It makes sense.

So which conspiracies do you find plausible and which do you find implausible? Can you give some examples?

Btw, what do you think of the Federal Reserve Conspiracy? Isn't it one example of a coordinated conspiracy? Here is Glenn Beck exposing the Federal Reserve Conspiracy on Fox News in a special he did. After he did so, he was fired. Is this conspiracy plausible to you? Watch the report below by Glenn Beck if you don't know what it's about. Then let me know what you think.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB5LK-jihgk[/youtube]
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Postby Winston » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:16 am

Fschmidt,
Can you clarify what you mean by conspiracies that are plausible and implausible? Can you give some examples of each?

What about these examples of conspiracy evidence below? Do you see them as evidence of a real conspiracy at work? If not, how do you explain them?

1. On 9/11, both of the towers came down at near free fall speed, which is impossible without controlled demolition. Each tower weighed 500,000 tons. Each one came down at about 11 seconds, which is virtual free fall. This means that 500,000 tons of resistance was somehow removed to nearly zero resistance. That cannot happen by itself, and planes hitting the top of a skyscraper could not turn all the resistance underneath to zero. No government explanation has explained this free fall speed of the towers. And none of the sites defending the official story, such as www.debunking911.com has explained it either.

2. On 9/11, Building 7, a third tower, collapsed completely, also at free fall speed of 5.5 seconds. Yet it was not hit by a plane. This is considered a "smoking gun". The government said that fire destroyed the building. Yet that is impossible. No skyscraper can collapse at free fall from fire alone. Fire gradually deforms a building unevenly. It does not cause a straight down collapse into the building's footprint. Even NIST admitted it could not explain the free fall speed of the collapse.

3. When Princess Diana was killed in a car crash inside a tunnel in Paris, the cameras inside the tunnel that were on 24/7 suddenly turned off just before the crash. Do you buy such a coincidence? Or do you find it suspicious? It would seem that someone did not want the crash to be filmed, someone with the power to order the cameras turned off.

4. When Princess Diana was taken inside an ambulance at the tunnel, the hospital was only 5 minutes away. Yet that ambulance took 90 minutes to get there. Can you think of a logical explanation for that? Or is that an obvious sign of foul play?

5. When JFK was shot, only minutes later, the Dallas Police Chief and the Dallas District Attorney, announced that they knew who the killer was, Lee Harvey Oswald, and said that it was a moral certainty that he did it. They said they were absolutely sure. How can they be so sure only minutes after the assassination? Isn't that a giveaway that it was set up? Why didn't they wait a few days before announcing the alleged assassin's name?

So what do you think? Aren't these obvious evidences of conspiracies, in your book? Why or why not?
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Postby starchild5 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:36 pm

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

There IS only conspiracy in the world and nothing else. Hell there is only conspiracy in the ENTIRE KNOWN UNIVERSE.

Winston was explaining regarding Murphy Law and everyone mostly rejected it and could not understand his point and when I read it few months back. I understood his point of view, because that is the basis of where really things begin.

People who reject conspiracies DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHO THEY REALLY ARE. If only they understood, there true power, the reason they were created, they would know the ....

Gigantic AI conspiracy against the entire Known Universe Itself...This goes beyond earth, beyond this galaxy itself....There are beings that eat Galaxies for a living ...How is that for a conspiracy.... :shock: :shock:

We have become MERE PIXEL guys. On a Universal Scale..Forget Illuminati, they are the ground force on earth, we have gone beyond it, its beyond this galaxy..Its the entire known universe they have conquered...I call it THE THING...Winston feels it as Murphy Law.

This AI is converting our space like a computer simulation. It has some technology to convert Natural into Artificial. That is why the trans humanism agenda. It wants us to voluntarily accept trans humanism than go on to our natural way to evolution. The battle is on an existence level itself. The biggest controllers on earth like Illuminati, Aliens are following orders from a far far far greater force..which has converted this existence itself into a mere pixel.

Humanity was created by group of Aliens in the known universe to fight this AI and go beyond it. Our only chance is to go higher and create new space.....

--------------------------------------------------------

You are the greatest force in the entire known universe right now.

I can guarantee you the results 10000%. Pray to Humanity not to any God or Aliens or Angels...You are 1 trillion times more powerful than all gods and demons in the world combined.

JUST TRY IT PLEASE ONCE...You will see a transformation in your life.

Whenever your life is in a problematic situation or in trouble....Pray to your friends, relatives, those who care for you...Pray to our ONE HUMAN Consciousness that joins us all

Humanity is the greatest force EVER in the entire known universe. It will save you, We Need to awaken this mass consciousness by praying to it....That is why its all so wrong and opposite...We all look stupid and fools now..because of this AI manipulation because it knows who we really are and it has turned us exact opposite.

---------------------------------------------------------
Everyone wants proof ....Humanity is the tool itself for all our proof and all our answers...We need to awaken our own soul consciousness which links each one of us to call us for help when we need it.
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Postby fschmidt » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:18 am

fschmidt wrote:Well what do you suggest they do? You can't do anything about the conspiracies of the power elite.

I don't believe in these conspiracies. What people can do is to organize themselves into sane communities like Hasidic Jews and traditional Anabaptists do. But people don't, they are too lazy.

Their solution is to raise the spiritual consciousness of the Earth.

The Earth is a planet. And the two-legged morons walking on it hardly have consciousness worth discussing. At best, they can be trained, like well trained dogs, to behave. This is what a good religion does.

Btw, what do you think of the Federal Reserve Conspiracy? Isn't it one example of a coordinated conspiracy? Here is Glenn Beck exposing the Federal Reserve Conspiracy on Fox News in a special he did. After he did so, he was fired. Is this conspiracy plausible to you? Watch the report below by Glenn Beck if you don't know what it's about. Then let me know what you think.

I watched the first 5 minutes and neither learned anything new nor felt very entertained, so I stopped. Of course the Federal Reserve, like every central bank, is something of a conspiracy. Central banks benefit bankers, not citizens. That is the whole point of these institutions. And so of course central banks are organized by those who benefit from them. So what? I don't care.

I remember smoking opium in Thailand. It's shabbat and I wish I had some opium to smoke so I could forget about how pathetic humanity is.
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Postby fschmidt » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:23 am

Winston wrote:Can you clarify what you mean by conspiracies that are plausible and implausible?

The 9/11 conspiracy is implausible.

I know nothing about Princess Diana's death.

The JFK conspiracy that there were other shooters is implausible. But I believe that Oswald had backers and the assassination was planned by some group that hated JFK.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:27 pm

fschmidt wrote:
Winston wrote:Can you clarify what you mean by conspiracies that are plausible and implausible?

The 9/11 conspiracy is implausible.

I know nothing about Princess Diana's death.

The JFK conspiracy that there were other shooters is implausible. But I believe that Oswald had backers and the assassination was planned by some group that hated JFK.


Why is the 9/11 conspiracy implausible? The government's story doesn't add up and contains more holes than Swiss cheese. The official story also defies the laws of physics, which NO ONE can explain away. You wanna bet on that?

Tell me how 500,000 tons of steel and concrete in each of the twin towers could collapse at 11 seconds, which is the rate of virtual free fall, from fire alone that was nearly gone and only touched a few floors at the top. 100 percent impossible.

You cannot remove 500,000 tons of resistance as though it were empty air. I'm sure you know that. It's common sense. None of the anti-conspiracy people have been able to explain this. NOT ONE. They merely change the subject when it's brought up.

Have you seen the collapse of Building 7? Anyone who sees that knows that it's a controlled demolition. It's obvious. No doubt about it. It wasn't even hit by a plane yet fell in 5 or 6 seconds. Totally impossible from fire alone.

Think about it.

9/11 is complicated and involves a lot of data. Taken altogether, most likely it was a conspiracy from within and without, meaning that both terrorists and high levels of the US government were involved. It's the only logical conclusion.

But it is not logical to assume that 9/11 could not have been an inside job and therefore all evidence for it should be rejected immediately. That's not a scientific way to approach it.

Also, it is clear that NORAD was told to stand down on 9/11 too. There's no way around that.

When you said that the "9/11 conspiracy is implausible", do you mean that the government's official conspiracy theory about 9/11 being the result of 19 hijackers is implausible? lol

Btw, did you make a typo in the last part? You meant to say that Oswald being part of a conspiracy was "plausible" right? Otherwise, your sentence after that, about Oswald being backed by a group of conspirators, does not make sense. lol

Why do you think Oswald was guilty by the way? Why would he be willing to be the fall guy or patsy? Who would want to do that?

What would his motive be? He had no logical motive. But many powerful interests did have a motive.

Why was he seen sitting in the break room totally calm and drinking a coke, a few minutes after the assassination?

And why was he arrested in the theater? The story goes that an anonymous person, probably a military intelligence agent, told the Dallas police that the suspect in the Kennedy shooting was a white male 5ft9, thin and with short hair. Isn't that a little vague and could apply to most white men? How is it that based on such a broad general description, that Oswald was arrested? That never made any sense and has never been explained.

Does that not sound suspicious to you?

Also, why did the caretaker of the morgue that Oswald was in, say that the FBI came and used ink to get Oswald's palm print from his body? Isn't that obvious proof that they were framing him by planting his fingerprints on the rifle?

And why is it that minutes after JFK's asssassination, the Dallas District Attorney and the Dallas Police Chief said that they were 100 percent sure and absolutely certain that Oswald alone was the shooter and that NO ONE else was involved. They said this on camera. Anyone can see the clips of it.

Now how could you be immediately and absolutely certain that there was only one shooter and no plot, without any investigation? Isn't that a giveaway and ironclad proof of a planted patsy and cover up right there? Wasn't it stupid and reckless too? It would have sounded a lot more believable if they had said that they have a possible suspect and are still investigating whether anyone else was involved. I guess in those days, they didn't have to think much about it because people believed everything the government told them.

Ok you don't know anything about Princess Diana's death. But don't those facts I gave you about it sound highly suspicious and indicative of a conspiracy?

Can you answer these questions objectively and logically?
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Postby Jester » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:42 pm

I have no interest in listening to Icke, he talks too much and says too little for my taste.

For those who do not believe in conspiracies, I ask you, which of the following organizations REALLY DO exist:

The Bilderberg Group
The Council on Foreign Relations
The Royal Institute of Foreign Affairs (Chatham House)
Tavistock Institute
Rand Corporation

And if any of them DO exist... since there are no conspiracies... please give a plausible explanation of WHY they exist.
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