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Jon Ronson on conspiracies

Discuss conspiracies, mysteries and paranormal phenomena.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby Winston » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:33 am

Jester wrote:I have no interest in listening to Icke, he talks too much and says too little for my taste.

For those who do not believe in conspiracies, I ask you, which of the following organizations REALLY DO exist:

The Bilderberg Group
The Council on Foreign Relations
The Royal Institute of Foreign Affairs (Chatham House)
Tavistock Institute
Rand Corporation

And if any of them DO exist... since there are no conspiracies... please give a plausible explanation of WHY they exist.


The anti-conspiracy people will tell you that they are just elite clubs that meet in private to discuss world issues without the scrutiny of the media. And they will say that that in itself is no more a conspiracy than if you were to meet with your family privately to discuss your affairs.

What do you expect them to say? lol

The questions I raised above are far more inescapable proof of a conspiracy though.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:02 am

Fschmidt,
Check out this presentation by Jim Marrs called "The Trillion Dollar Conspiracy". He is a great speaker and author and makes a lot of sense. He wrote many best selling books about the JFK assassination such as "Crossfire" which Oliver Stone used as his template for his blockbuster movie "JFK".

In this presentation, Jim Marrs goes over a lot of conspiracy history and facts and connects the dots. When you see his presentation on 9/11, it will become CRYSTAL CLEAR to you that it was an inside job when you see all the dots connected and all the data added up to point to the only logical and obvious conclusion there is about it. There's no escape from that conclusion. Therefore, if you watch this with a neutral and unbiased mindset, you will agree that it was an inside job for sure, at least in part. There's no way around it. Watch it all and pay attention. You will agree for sure.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2AfT8bD--M[/youtube]
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Postby fschmidt » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:14 am

I looked into the 9/11 issue before. This answers all the questions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmIjDfpT ... EK&index=1

I know less about JFK/Oswald, but it seems reasonable that Oswald was paid off to do it. So some conspiracy here, but as I said (no typo) I think he was the only shooter.

Life is short and I don't plan to waste any of the rest of mine on conspiracy theories.
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Re:

Postby Winston » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:46 am

fschmidt wrote:Winston, your video is pretty long so maybe I will watch it on shabbat. The thing I like about Jon Ronson's video, above, is that Alex Jones is also in it and both of them saw exactly the same thing but each had a radically different interpretation of what they saw. It shows how people can interpret the same information in very different ways.


But Fschmidt, you are forgetting something. Jon Ronson's opinions and Alex Jones do NOT carry equal weight. Alex has done a lot more research and investigation into conspiracies and has interviewed many of the top experts and researchers on conspiracies on his talk show. So he obviously knows a lot more about the subject than Jon Ronson. Just like an expert's view carries more weight than a non-expert on the subject. We all know that.

Also, why don't you listen to what those with a deeper knowledge of the occult and secret societies have to say about Bohemian Grove? People like Michael Tsarion or Jordan Maxwell? Those guys have spent years and decades reading historical PRIMARY SOURCE documents about conspiracies and religions and occult knowledge. They have an ENCYCLOPEDIA of knowledge on such topics. Anyone who listens to them can see that. They know far more than even Alex Jones does. You should listen to what they have to say about the rituals at Bohemian Grove. Not Jon Ronson, who knows nothing compared to them.

Btw, the elites are not just "crazy". If they practice occult rituals and use astrology and numerology and all that, then there's a good reason for it. It must work for them, and has worked for them for thousands of years. Use your common sense here. Even Chinese emperors use divination techniques like I-Ching because it works. Plain and simple. The elite are not stupid. They are way smarter than us and far more capable as well. If they do something, there's a reason. If they practice something, it must be real. They would not believe in something or practice the occult for no reason or if it didn't work or wasn't real. No way. If you think that then you are seriously naive, deluded and ignorant. No joke.
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Re:

Postby Winston » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:04 am

fschmidt wrote:I looked into the 9/11 issue before. This answers all the questions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmIjDfpTeMc&list=PLthPsWmE3cefpc2sBzI9gamfS9eJRdgEK&index=1

I know less about JFK/Oswald, but it seems reasonable that Oswald was paid off to do it. So some conspiracy here, but as I said (no typo) I think he was the only shooter.

Life is short and I don't plan to waste any of the rest of mine on conspiracy theories.


No sorry Fschmidt. Those debunking 9/11 conspiracies videos do NOT explain the free fall collapse of all three skyscrapers. Have you seen the collapse of Building 7 Fschmidt? If not, then you are VERY UNEDUCATED on this topic. Nor do they explain how Al Qaeda had NORAD stand down on all four planes, which is impossible according to NORAD operators.

On the JFK/Oswald thing, tell me something. Why do you think Oswald was the shooter and why do you think he was the only shooter? Can you give some logical reasons for your view? That seems like an extreme claim to make.

Are you aware that over 50 eyewitnesses heard the shots coming from the grassy knoll? Are you aware that many doctors and nurses at parkland hospital said that JFK had a throat wound from a FRONTAL shot, not a rear shot? A frontal shot means a second gunman obviously. This is well documented. Their testimonies are even recorded on video. Are you even aware of all that?

It seems your view is very unqualified and you've spent no time researching the evidence. The evidence actually indicates that he was framed and innocent, and that there were multiple shooters. Plus many whistleblowers and confessions from the Mafia and CIA have come out (many of them are taped) admitting the plot to kill JFK. So why do you deny all that? A reasonable person would not do that.

Have you seen the Oswald Innocence Campaign run by Professor Jim Fetzer? They have a doorway photo of Oswald at the time of the JFK shooting, placing him in the front doorway of the first floor of the book depository building just a few seconds before JFK was shot. If that photo is really Oswald, then he could not have been on the 6th floor of that building. Have you taken that into account?

http://www.oswald-innocent.com

Examine the detailed evidence and photos presented in the site above.

Also, again your opinion on this matter is NOT qualified. You have spent very little time researching this topic. In contrast, researchers like Jim Marrs, Mark Lane and Jim Garrison spent many years researching and investigating this topic, and interviewing many witnesses, and they all concluded that Oswald was an INNOCENT patsy. All these men have a far more QUALIFIED opinion than you on this matter Fschmidt. You can't deny that. Their assessment carries a MILLION times more weight than yours does. You can't deny that.

So why not humble yourself Fschmidt and admit that you may be wrong? Or at least admit that you don't know and are neutral? Why pretend to be an knowledgeable or qualified when you are clearly not? Why act arrogant for no reason? Why pretend that your random speculation is fact? Isn't that a fake American personality trait to act like a know-it-all? If so, why are you displaying it Fschmidt? You know it's wrong to act arrogant about something you know nothing about right? So why not act humble like foreign people do? I certainly would not act arrogant about something I know little or nothing about, so why would you? Is it irrational male ego or what? Can you explain logically?
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Re:

Postby Winston » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:10 am

MrPeabody wrote:I have mentioned several times that the illuminati idea is just entertainment and Alex Jones is an entertainer. Do you seriously think there is any truth on the Internet? You need facts and not youtube videos. The elites obviously coordinate. Look at immigration where every developed country is being forced to accept massive and dangerous third world immigration. That just doesn't happen. It is planned and agreed on by non elected entities. And it happens even though it is unpopular. The people have no say in it. You can see that democracy is a joke because people aren't allowed to make the important decisions that affect their lives.


Sorry but the Illuminati are not just "entertainment". Where do you get that? And what's your basis for that belief?

It is a historical fact that there was a Bavarian Illuminati that was started by Adam Weishaupt in 1776 and officially founded on May 1st, which is also the day that Communists celebrate. Coincidence? Not according to top conspiracy researchers and experts. The only question is whether the Bavarian Illuminati ended when it was exposed in 1786 when lightning hit one of its couriers in Europe. After that, the monarchs of Europe banned it. So it either ended there, or it went underground and infiltrated the Freemason secret societies and other front groups. That's the issue. Not whether it ever existed.

Establishment historians like to tell you that the Illuminati ended there, to draw you away from "conspiracy theories" because you are not supposed to believe that conspiracies are possible in the high level power structures of America. But historical documents and primary sources say otherwise. You guys should check them out first before drawing your conclusions.

First, have any of you read "Proofs of a Conspiracy" by John Robison, published in 1798? It was published at the time that the Bavarian Illuminati started by Adam Weishaupt existed, and was based on primary sources at the time. In that book, Robison explained how the Illuminati infiltrated Freemasonry and fled to America to escape persecution, and how it was responsible for the French Revolution too (which were not random uprisings as you've been told). He exposed the plans of the Illuminati to abolish the monarchy, religion, breakup the family, spread feminism, start a new world order and global government, and use "democracy" and "socialism" as a stepping stone to all these goals. Today we see that most of these objectives of Weishaupt's Illuminati have COME TRUE, as we all know. Coincidence? Yeah right. I think not.

Even George Washington said that the Illuminati existed. A copy of Robison's book was sent to George Washington, and Washington admitted in his personal letters that it was true that the Illuminati had come to America and infiltrated Freemasonry. This is a PRIMARY SOURCE guys! Here are Washington's exact words about it in his letter:

"It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am."
- George Washington, Mount Vernon, October 24, 1798.

The letter is archived in the Library of Congress here:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mgw:@field%28DOCID+@lit%28gw360395%29%29

Here is a scanned copy of Washington's handwritten letter:

Image

Anyhow, you can read John Robison's "Proofs of a Conspiracy" for free online. Just Google "John Robison Proofs of a Conspiracy". You can also get it from Amazon Kindle for free. The full title of it is: "PROOFS OF A CONSPIRACY AGAINST ALL THE RELIGIONS AND GOVERNMENTS OF EUROPE, CARRIED ON IN THE SECRET MEETINGS OF FREE MASONS, ILLUMINATI, AND READING SOCIETIES". It was written during the time that the Bavarian Illuminati was exposed and went underground so it's a primary source, which even contains quotes from Adam Weishaupt himself, such as this:

"The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment; let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always covered by another name, and another occupation. None is better than the three lower degrees of Free Masonry; the public is accustomed to it, expects little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it. Next to this, the form of a learned or literary society is best suited to our purpose, and had Free Masonry not existed, this cover would have been employed; and it may be much more than a cover, it may be a powerful engine in our hands. By establishing reading societies, and subscription libraries, and taking these under our direction, and supplying them through our labours, we may turn the public mind which way we will." - Adam Weishaupt


Links to this historical book:
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/PROOFS_OF_A_CONSPIRACY_John_Robison.pdf
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2864812-proofs-of-a-conspiracy
http://www.sacred-texts.com/sro/pc/pc03.htm

John Robison (1739-1805) was a Scottish scientist, who late in life wrote the one of the definitive studies of the Bavarian Illuminati. He was a contemporary and collaborator with James Watt, with whom he worked on an early steam car, contributor to the 1797 Encylopedia Britannica, professor of philosophy at the University of Edinburgh, and inventor of the siren.

Although Robison was very much an advocate of science and rationalism, in later life, disillusioned by the French Revolution, he became an ardent monarchist. In this work, Proofs of a Conspiracy, Robison laid the groundwork for modern conspiracy theorists by implicating the Bavarian Illuminati as responsible for the excesses of the French Revolution. The Bavarian Illuminati, a rationalist secret society, was founded by Adam Weishaupt in 1776 in what is today Germany. They had an inner core of true believers, who secretly held radical atheist, anti-monarchist and possibly proto-feminist views, at that time considered beyond the pale. They recruited by infiltrating the numerous (and otherwise benign) Freemasonic groups which were active at the time on the continent. Necessarily they had a clandestine, compartmentalized, hierarchical organizational form, which has led some modern conspiracy theorists to identify them as the original Marxist-Leninist group. However, this is most likely simply a case of parallel evolution.


Another book that also came out in 1798 that also exposed the Illuminati was "Code of the Illuminati" by Abbe Barreul:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0021YV3F4/internetsacredte

This is the third part (of four) of Abbé Barreul's massive polemic history of the French Revolution. This book is of interest because it contains extensive quotes from the actual literature of the Bavarian Illuminati.

This is the most comprehensive work in English on the historical theory, structure and practice of the Bavarian Illuminati. It complements Robison's Proofs of a Conspiracy, the other major contemporary account.

Founded in 1776, shortly before the American Revolution, the Bavarian Illuminati were a secret society with a revolutionary ideology, and a centralized structure. According to Abbé Barreul, they subverted the Masonic lodges of Europe, and were one of the key driving forces behind the French Revolution. New members were gradually initiated into the group's radical ideas, which, according to Barreul, were atheist and anarchist in essence.


And yes this is a PRIMARY SOURCE because:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/sro/mhj/index.htm

Barreul was very conservative, and his translator, Robert Edward Clifford, likewise. However, Barreul was a serious historian, even though he wrote from a decidedly non-neutral point of view. As a contemporary, he was able to view the primary source documents and interview participants. As such this book is today, in and of itself, a primary source.


Also, in 1924, Nesta Webster published a book called "Secret Societies and Subversive Movements" where she exposed the Illuminati, Freemasons, and Zionist conspiracies. Do you know about that? It is referenced by conspiracy researchers, and you can read it for free online or get it for free from Amazon Kindle.

In the 1960's, a NWO elite insider named Dr. Carroll Quigley, who was Bill Clinton's mentor, published a 1300 page book called "Hope and Tragedy" where he outlined the NWO plan of the elites. However, he was very pro-NWO, not against it, and thought it was a good thing. His only beef with it was that he believed it should be made public, not kept secret. You can read it for free online by Googling it too.

So you see, there are LOTS of primary sources and historical documents from insiders and astute researchers about the Illuminati, Freemasonry and NWO conspiracies. So why are some of you pretending that such conspiracies don't exist? For God sake, please try to EDUCATE yourself on such things. Check out the books above, which are close to being primary sources or contain them.

You can also start by watching this presentation by the John Birch Society called "Overview of America II" which presents historical documents about the Illuminati, NWO and Council on Foreign Relations, that ties it all together. It's very good and informative.

Overview of America II
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eOS5acoEJk

Also see the original "Overview of America", a 30 minute documentary that presents facts and truths that I'm sure you will all agree with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MzxC8Mqupw

Next, see this 45 minute documentary "The Capitalist Conspiracy" by Edward G Griffin, which gives a great factual introduction to the conspiracies that rule the Western world today.

The Capitalist Conspiracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udWXFC2sWU8

I'm gonna keep throwing these documents and links at you all until you agree to get yourself EDUCATED and stop living in denial about these historical facts and modern realities about conspiracies. Don't make me repeat all this again please. Oh and sorry but waving your hand in dismissal DOES NOT remove all this evidence, historical documents and facts. Neither does ignoring all this. So don't even try to do that. No can do. Deal with the reality please.
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Re: Jon Ronson on conspiracies

Postby Winston » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:41 pm

Fschmidt,
If conspiracies don't exist and there is no shadow government or hidden cabal pulling the strings, then why have so many US Presidents and Washington insiders warned us about them? See their quotes below. They are all PRIMARY SOURCES. Don't you look foolish now Fschmidt? LOL

Dire Warnings From Past U.S. Presidents and Other High-Profile Leaders About an “Invisible Government” That Runs the U.S. With “No Allegiance To the People”

George Washington

“It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am. The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies, endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of seperation). That Individuals of them may… actually had a seperation [sic] of the People from their Government in view, is too evident to be questioned.” – George Washington, 1st President of the United States (1789–1797), from a letter that Washington wrote on October 24, 1798, which can be found in the Library of Congress.

Thomas Jefferson

“I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.” —Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States (1801–1809) and principal author of the United States Declaration of Independence (1776), in a letter written to John Taylor on May 28, 1816

John C Calhoun

“A power has risen up in the government greater than the people themselves, consisting of many and various powerful interests, combined in one mass, and held together by the cohesive power of the vast surplus in banks.” – John C. Calhoun, Vice President (1825-1832) and U.S. Senator, from a speech given on May 27, 1836

Note that it appears that Washington’s and Jefferson’s concerns regarding bankers and separation of the people from the government was realized by 1836. This fact was confirmed in a letter written by FDR in 1933 (see below) in which he wrote that “a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” Jackson was the seventh president of the United States (1829-1937). Calhoun served as Jackson’s vice-president from 1829-1932.

Theodore Roosevelt

“Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.”— Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States, Theodore Roosevelt, An Autobiography, 1913 (Appendix B)

Woodrow Wilson

“A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men… [W]e have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.” – Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, The New Freedom, 1913

“Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” – Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, The New Freedom, 1913

John F Hylan

“The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government, which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation… The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both parties, … and control the majority of the newspapers and magazines in this country. They use the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of office public officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government. It operates under cover of a self-created screen [and] seizes our executive officers, legislative bodies, schools, courts, newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.” – New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, New York Times, March 26, 1922

Edward Bernays

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country… We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.” – Edward Bernays (“the father of public relations”), Propaganda, 1928 (note that Bernays’ book, Propaganda, begins with the above quote).

Louis T McFadden

“Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government board, has cheated the Government of the United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt…Mr. Chairman, when the Federal Reserve act was passed, the people of the United States did not perceive that a world system was being set up here… and that this country was to supply financial power to an international superstate — a superstate controlled by international bankers and international industrialists acting together to enslave the world for their own pleasure.” – Congressman Louis T. McFadden, from a speech delivered to the House of Representatives on June 10, 1932

Franklin D Roosevelt

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” — Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 32nd President of the United States (1933–1945), in a letter to Colonel Edward M House dated November 21, 1933, as quoted in F.D.R.: His Personal Letters, 1928-1945.

William Jenner

“Today the path to total dictatorship in the U.S. can be laid by strictly legal means… We have a well-organized political-action group in this country, determined to destroy our Constitution and establish a one-party state… It operates secretly, silently, continuously to transform our Government… This ruthless power-seeking elite is a disease of our century… This group…is answerable neither to the President, the Congress, nor the courts. It is practically irremovable.” – Senator William Jenner, 1954 speech

J. Edgar Hoover

“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.” —J. Edgar Hoover, The Elks Magazine, 1956

Dwight D. Eisenhower

“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower, 34th President of the United States,, January 1961 Speech

John F. Kennedy

“The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings… Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe… no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of “clear and present danger,” then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent… For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed.” — John F Kennedy, 35th President of the United States, from a speech delivered to the American Newspaper Publishers Association on April 27, 1961 and known as the “Secret Society” speech.

Larry P McDonald

“The Rockefellers and their allies have, for at least fifty years, been carefully following a plan to use their economic power to gain political control of first America, and then the rest of the world. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes, I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.” Congressman Larry P. McDonald, November 1975, from the introduction to a book titled The Rockefeller File.

Daniel K Inouye

“There exists a shadowy government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.” – Daniel K. Inouye, US Senator from Hawaii, testimony at the Iran Contra Hearings, 1986
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Re: Jon Ronson on conspiracies

Postby Winston » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:47 pm

To Fschmidt and other disbelievers who scoff at the notion of conspiracy:

Why are you denying the existence of conspiracies and the plot for a NWO, when elite bankers themselves have OPENLY ADMITTED such a plot? For example:

"We shall have world government, whether or not we like it. The question is only whether world government will be achieved by consent or by conquest." - James Warburg, son of Paul Warburg, one of the founders of the Federal Reserve

This is a REAL documented quote by the elite, and is thus a primary source. It's even on Wikipedia. See below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Warburg

James Paul Warburg (August 18, 1896 – June 3, 1969) was a German-born American banker. He was well known for being the financial adviser to Franklin D. Roosevelt. His father was banker Paul Warburg, member of the Warburg family and "father" of the Federal Reserve system.

Warburg was a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He gained some notice in a February 17, 1950, appearance before the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations in which he said, "We shall have world government, whether or not we like it. The question is only whether world government will be achieved by consent or by conquest."[1]


Also, David Rockefeller wrote in his memoirs:

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/9951.David_Rockefeller

“For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
― David Rockefeller, Memoirs

"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a World Government.The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."
― David Rockefeller to Trilateral Commission in 1991
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Re: Jon Ronson on conspiracies

Postby Adama » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:15 am

Who cares if the Jews deny it? We know what the truth is. It doesnt matter what their lies are when we can clearly see the truth.
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Re: Jon Ronson on conspiracies

Postby Winston » Thu May 05, 2016 7:03 pm

Fschmidt,
So did you see the many quotes posted above by many US Presidents before JFK that talk about a hidden conspiracy and shadow government running America? What you make of them? And of the quote by Paul Warburg too?

Also, did you read any books by Mark Dice yet about the Illuminati? I'm still reading his two books about the Illuminati and they are excellent, no-nonsense and easy to read and follow.

Anyway, here is a great interview I want to show you from the early 1990's with two of the top conspiracy experts - Jordan Maxwell and Anthony J. Hilder. It's really good and informative and you can tell both men know what they are talking about. Hilder was one of the first to revive public awareness of the Illuminati on his radio show in the 1980's, along with the John Birch Society, after Gary Allen's groundbreaking book "None Dare Call It A Conspiracy" was published in the 70's, a book which you should read too.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K92bweKEm0Y[/youtube]
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Re: Jon Ronson on conspiracies

Postby Winston » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:50 am

Fschmidt,
Here's a mockumentary too, that turns into a thriller. lol. It's called "The Conspiracy (2012)". It's about two young guys making a mockumentary about conspiracy theorists. They interview various conspiracy buffs and truthers about 9/11, the Federal Reserve, Big Brother, shadowy elites controlling everything, depopulation agenda, etc. But then suddenly the main guy they are interviewing disappears without a trace. So they do some investigation and eventually try to infiltrate a Satanic Illuminati cult of elites in the forest, similar to Bohemian Grove, which does Satanic sacrifice rituals. Then it turns into a horror movie where they are followed by black vans and creepy watchers. Check out the trailer. It looks pretty good. I found the full film on YouTube too. It's only 90 minutes. And it runs like a real documentary from a home camcorder.

Trailer

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZNVPiyl_ag[/youtube]

Full film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0TqQhBeDP0
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Re:

Postby Adama » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:39 pm

Winston wrote:Yeah, fschmidt has a different take on conspiracies that is worth considering. He shared it with me. I'll try to summarize what he said.

The conspiracy movement makes you think that a big conspiracy being responsible for everything is the only explanation that makes sense. But fschmidt has a more down to earth explanation for the craziness in America and the world. And that is - corruption. Corruption at all levels, in the mainstream and within the elite. When you understand this, there is no need for a conspiracy, because America at all levels is corrupt and sold to the highest bidder. So according to him, corruption is a far more sensible and down-to-earth explanation than some big Illuminati conspiracy.

He also said that he has met people in the elite before and that they are so ruthless that they will not even trust each other, let alone conspire with other elites. They may work together sometimes on mutual aims and agendas. But they do not actively cooperate together on every issue and plan like David Icke and Alex Jones claim. It's too implausible.

But fschmidt, what about all the quotes about the NWO that the elites talk about? Do you think they are really planning a one world government? Why do they talk about it? Isn't that evidence for a conspiracy?

See this documentary which contains many clips from world leaders, politicians and media people that talk about the NWO. Isn't this an admission of their plans?

Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO24XmP1c5E[/youtube]



For what reason would Fschmidt have met elites? Hmm? Do his millions make him one? I mean, he knows them intimately enough to know that they would and wouldn't do? That is either an untruth or misdirection or both.

Also, corruption is just more misdirection. Man oh man. Make up your mind, Winston. And of course he is against all conspiracies. All of them. Look at the claims for his heritage to see why. All roads do lead back to Rome eventually. Romans may or may not want all the fingers pointing at them if they can deflect one or two.
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Re: Re:

Postby Winston » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:21 pm

Adama wrote:For what reason would Fschmidt have met elites? Hmm? Do his millions make him one? I mean, he knows them intimately enough to know that they would and wouldn't do? That is either an untruth or misdirection or both.

Also, corruption is just more misdirection. Man oh man. Make up your mind, Winston. And of course he is against all conspiracies. All of them. Look at the claims for his heritage to see why. All roads do lead back to Rome eventually. Romans may or may not want all the fingers pointing at them if they can deflect one or two.


I don't know. He worked for big IT companies before I think. He told me he's met Bill Gates and Steve Jobs before and knows what they are like in person. So maybe he's worked for both Microsoft and Apple, or subcontractors that work for those companies.

It's funny how he doesn't respond to this thread anymore. Or to other ones where I show him how many insiders high up in government have blown the whistle on conspiracies and a secret elite running America. He asked for evidence and got it. Then he became silent, instead of apologizing and admitting he's wrong or at least updating his beliefs.
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Re: Re:

Postby Adama » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:23 pm

Winston wrote:
Adama wrote:For what reason would Fschmidt have met elites? Hmm? Do his millions make him one? I mean, he knows them intimately enough to know that they would and wouldn't do? That is either an untruth or misdirection or both.

Also, corruption is just more misdirection. Man oh man. Make up your mind, Winston. And of course he is against all conspiracies. All of them. Look at the claims for his heritage to see why. All roads do lead back to Rome eventually. Romans may or may not want all the fingers pointing at them if they can deflect one or two.


I don't know. He worked for big IT companies before I think. He told me he's met Bill Gates and Steve Jobs before and knows what they are like in person. So maybe he's worked for both Microsoft and Apple, or subcontractors that work for those companies.

It's funny how he doesn't respond to this thread anymore. Or to other ones where I show him how many insiders high up in government have blown the whistle on conspiracies and a secret elite running America. He asked for evidence and got it. Then he became silent, instead of apologizing and admitting he's wrong or at least updating his beliefs.



Well then he is wrong. We all know that Bill Gates is involved in vaccines and poisoned food such as Monsanto. Fschmidt is spreading untruths.


Apple also originally charged $666.66 (referencing 666, the mark of the beast) for the first computer they produced. They shipped their jobs to China, oppress workers, and keep their profits overseas where they can't be taxed by the US Gov.

Either Fschmidt is allied with them intentionally spreading lies, or he is overestimating his relationship with both of those men.

Besides that, if you are a little guy, do you think you automatically get to meet with a fortune 500 CEO? Or would you instead be meeting with an underling of some kind?

Don't believe every word someone tells you, especially not a member of the circumcision.
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Re: Jon Ronson on conspiracies

Postby Eric » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:35 pm

He doesn't believe it, because he doesn't want to believe it, it's that simple. It's easier for him to bury his head in the sand and pretend that the world is simple, corrupted, and fine. He wants it to be simple.

I have heard about the competition and corruption being so intense and cut throat at the top, that those people don't even trust each other. I believe this is true, as I've heard it from more than one credible source. It's more like...it's so ruthless, that you are forced to make factions with each other, to fight other factions at the top; that's how I believe it goes. If I thought about it that's what makes sense to me.
It's pretty clear it's a Jewish nucleus to what's going on. Bavarian illuminati, Weishapt being a marrano Jew himself, a Jewish Jesuit. That is known. It's not hard to figure out. Who hates the monarchs, central authority....who overthrows governments with liberalism, freedom and 'chaos' of all sorts? Follow the money...who is it. This is not hard to figure out. Who has all the money that there is, and was. Who stands to win by taking over the whole world and subduing it. Who is the one group you are not allowed to attack. Who is the one group allowed to thrive. Who is the one group occupying all positions of created 'high status', such as Hollywood, actors, ...politicians, celebrities (who were virtually unknown unheard of before 20th century*actors).

The name Bilderberg is a Jewish name. The head of the Fed is Jewish. Pedophile rings operate the world through - because might makes right and when you get that high, there are no rules but what you have for yourself. No one can tell you what to do...
It used to really be might makes right. But now, I'd say it's money makes might makes right.
They've gotten so smart to figure out that anyone can be bought - and utilize the terrible power of the purse, across the world. With their organization and planning, propaganda, no one can resist them/ it. Before in the middle ages, this kind of planning or centralization wasn't possible.

Jewish Jewish Jewish. With liberalism - you can't kill anybody anymore. Used to be they ran the banks and they still had no power. They were given those positions by their host nations, but wielded no power. Times were brutal back then. That's how they were kept in check. Now, liberalism prevents any action or brutality from occurring.
The end result is, the world will be far more a brutal place. 50-60 million dead with Mao. 80 million in Russia. ....it goes on, and on.
We've created a monster. All we have to do is disown the liberalism we've had for the last few hundred years, making us soft, crippled and tying our hands to action. Which allowed this to happen; this was all part of the plan anyways...
bust a few heads, smash a few skulls... kill somebody or something... refuse liberalism. Spit it out, it's bad for you. Render the usurers and bank owners to their relative positions once again, gain back authority of the monarchs or nation states once again. This is not hard to do.
Think about it, these people ran banks but were not significantly powerful for centuries. We need to keep them in check - we haven't been doing this, this is why we pay the price. We let a problem get out of hand.
-"Virescit vulnere virtus"
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