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The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Discuss conspiracies, mysteries and paranormal phenomena.

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gsjackson
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » October 2nd, 2017, 1:21 pm

MrPeabody wrote:
gsjackson wrote:
MrPeabody wrote:
HouseMD wrote:
Adama wrote:

Bacteria isn't mentioned by name, but it is clear God knew about them, because He told the Hebrews to wash themselves in running water and not stagnant. Guns may not be in the Bible, but weapons of war were.
But what of the literally millions of things not mentioned in the Bible? The Bible is the teachings of God, not an encyclopedia of all knowledge. It didn't teach man to make pottery or shelter, how to sail or use a compass, how to make fire from light, or any number of other things. And much of the Bible is allegory, something to which the vast majority of Biblical and Rabbinical scholars agree. Ah well, I'm placing you back on ignore, in any case, I've got much work to do and you are a man who is so sure of himself that no amount of evidence would change your mind, and you bask in your own ignorance with no desire to challenge it through your own experiments.

There is a passage in the BIble (Mark 7:1-13) where the Jews rebuke Jesus for not washing his hands before he eats. Jesus says: "It is not important what goes into your mouth but what comes out of your mouth". It is clear from this passage that Jesus did not understand the concept of germs. A god would know what germs are.
And a god would also know that people are exposed to millions of germs over a lifetime, and that the key to not getting sick is to be an uncongenial host for them, with a well-tuned immune system. With that you can take in all the germs you want and render them harmless. The God I believe in gave man everything he needs for optimal health in nature -- sunshine, water, oxygen, plant-derived food, etc. If that's the case, do you really think a little germ can destroy health that's well tended to?

You're exposed to germs every day; you get sick when your immune system is compromised, physically or mentally. In this passage Jesus is talking about how toxic thoughts verbalized can threaten your health. You can find all kinds of support for this notion nowadays, even in the "scientific" literature.
Nice Try. But even children today know you should wash your hands before you eat. But apparently you and Jesus don't. Jesus could have saved millions of lives over a course of a thousand plus years if he had just reconfirmed what the sages back then apparently already knew. The dumbass comments he made instead didn't do anyone any good. Also, this was used to persecute the first surgeons who decided it was a good idea to wash their hands before surgery.
Bullshit. I pick stuff up off the floor and eat it all the time. I never wash my hands before eating, and off hand I can't think of anyone I know who does. In almost 67 years I've had few health problems, and I believe none that has been the result of ingesting a germ when my immunity has been strong. Someone in need of surgery has compromised immunity, especially while cut open, and thus is more vulnerable to pathogens. (Hand washing surgeons were persecuted? Interesting. How so? If caught running their hands under water prior to operating they were drawn and quartered? When and where did this unenlightened persecution take place?)

You germphobes should try looking after your health so that you don't come to a point where, say, you feel like you need to lose 60 pounds from a 5-8 frame, as you did a few years ago. That alone, and the fact that you dropped that weight so quickly with an extreme program tells me all I need to know about your grasp of good health practices.

But you've framed the issue right for this thread -- what all children are taught, and whether or not it is pure bs. The same trope used throughout the thread -- "even school children know ....."




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Adama
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by Adama » October 2nd, 2017, 1:31 pm

See, they don't perceive the deeper matters. This is not even about germs. It's about the spirit that is within the man. It is the spirit of man that is the matter, not the physically cleanliness of his hands. It is a matter of whether the man himself is unclean in his heart, not whether he eats with unwashed hands. This is the problem the Pharisees also failed to understand.

Lots of people don't wash their hands before they eat. The stomach is strong enough to kill those germs. Now surgery is a different matter, because we are talking about open wounds and bypassing the body's natural defenses. The stomach itself can defend the body from what comes into it.

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » October 2nd, 2017, 1:51 pm

Adama wrote:See, they don't perceive the deeper matters. This is not even about germs. It's about the spirit that is within the man. It is the spirit of man that is the matter, not the physically cleanliness of his hands. It is a matter of whether the man himself is unclean in his heart, not whether he eats with unwashed hands. This is the problem the Pharisees also failed to understand.

Lots of people don't wash their hands before they eat. The stomach is strong enough to kill those germs. Now surgery is a different matter, because we are talking about open wounds and bypassing the body's natural defenses. The stomach itself can defend the body from what comes into it.
Yeah, the point Jesus is making really isn't all that controversial today -- the health of the mind and body are intimately related. A turbulent mind is infinitely more dangerous than some random germ.

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by Adama » October 2nd, 2017, 2:41 pm

The other thing that many people do not know is that if a person is speaking evil against the innocent without cause, God considers that to be the work of the man's hands. In other words, the words out of a person's mouth are the same as the action with the hands. So if a person has lifted up his tongue to speak evil, that is the same as doing violence with his hands. And therefore the Lord will consider that man's hands to be bloody.

In other words, if a man is murdering others with his tongue, by using it as a weapon, that is considered as the violence of the hands. So those who lift their tongues up to the vanity of slander and mischief have DEFILED THEMSELVES, and made their hands bloody .

This is why when a person speaks evil, it is worse than having unwashed hands. Because in their hearts they are murderers, and they use their tongue as a weapon of death against the soul of another. That is being bloody, that is murder, and that is the real self-defilement that will take a person's soul to totenreiches.

This is why, in Matthew 5, Christ says if a man so much as calls a brother a fool, that he is in danger of totenreiches. It is that important not to injure another person's soul.

Adama
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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by Adama » October 2nd, 2017, 3:08 pm

In other words, if you want life, health, eternal life and glory, then pursue peace with all men, and exercise mercy in all dealings.

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by MrPeabody » October 2nd, 2017, 3:38 pm

gsjackson wrote:
Adama wrote:See, they don't perceive the deeper matters. This is not even about germs. It's about the spirit that is within the man. It is the spirit of man that is the matter, not the physically cleanliness of his hands. It is a matter of whether the man himself is unclean in his heart, not whether he eats with unwashed hands. This is the problem the Pharisees also failed to understand.

Lots of people don't wash their hands before they eat. The stomach is strong enough to kill those germs. Now surgery is a different matter, because we are talking about open wounds and bypassing the body's natural defenses. The stomach itself can defend the body from what comes into it.
Yeah, the point Jesus is making really isn't all that controversial today -- the health of the mind and body are intimately related. A turbulent mind is infinitely more dangerous than some random germ.
He could have made the same point using another analogy. But the main point is that the story clearly shows Jesus wasn't aware of germs and it also shows that the pharisees who washed their hands before they eat were more intelligent than Jesus.

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » October 2nd, 2017, 3:49 pm

MrPeabody wrote:
gsjackson wrote:
Adama wrote:See, they don't perceive the deeper matters. This is not even about germs. It's about the spirit that is within the man. It is the spirit of man that is the matter, not the physically cleanliness of his hands. It is a matter of whether the man himself is unclean in his heart, not whether he eats with unwashed hands. This is the problem the Pharisees also failed to understand.

Lots of people don't wash their hands before they eat. The stomach is strong enough to kill those germs. Now surgery is a different matter, because we are talking about open wounds and bypassing the body's natural defenses. The stomach itself can defend the body from what comes into it.
Yeah, the point Jesus is making really isn't all that controversial today -- the health of the mind and body are intimately related. A turbulent mind is infinitely more dangerous than some random germ.
He could have made the same point using another analogy. But the main point is that the story clearly shows Jesus wasn't aware of germs and it also shows that the pharisees who washed their hands before they eat were more intelligent than Jesus.
Huh? It clearly does not show that. It shows that Jesus was capable of intelligent prioritizing of health practices.

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by MrPeabody » October 2nd, 2017, 3:54 pm

gsjackson wrote:
MrPeabody wrote:
gsjackson wrote:
Adama wrote:See, they don't perceive the deeper matters. This is not even about germs. It's about the spirit that is within the man. It is the spirit of man that is the matter, not the physically cleanliness of his hands. It is a matter of whether the man himself is unclean in his heart, not whether he eats with unwashed hands. This is the problem the Pharisees also failed to understand.

Lots of people don't wash their hands before they eat. The stomach is strong enough to kill those germs. Now surgery is a different matter, because we are talking about open wounds and bypassing the body's natural defenses. The stomach itself can defend the body from what comes into it.
Yeah, the point Jesus is making really isn't all that controversial today -- the health of the mind and body are intimately related. A turbulent mind is infinitely more dangerous than some random germ.
He could have made the same point using another analogy. But the main point is that the story clearly shows Jesus wasn't aware of germs and it also shows that the pharisees who washed their hands before they eat were more intelligent than Jesus.
Huh? It clearly does not show that. It shows that Jesus was capable of intelligent prioritizing of health practices.
If he was prioritizing health practices, he would have confirmed that people should wash their hands before they eat. Back then there were a lot of germs, and if you got one of them you were dead. There was no medical science. Jesus clearly wasn't god. If he was god, he would be evil for intentionally misleading people when he was given an opportunity to confirm that people should wash their hands. Just saying "wash your hands before you eat" would have been more valuable than all of the mediocre writing in the New Testament.

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » October 2nd, 2017, 4:10 pm

Adama wrote:The other thing that many people do not know is that if a person is speaking evil against the innocent without cause, God considers that to be the work of the man's hands. In other words, the words out of a person's mouth are the same as the action with the hands. So if a person has lifted up his tongue to speak evil, that is the same as doing violence with his hands. And therefore the Lord will consider that man's hands to be bloody.

In other words, if a man is murdering others with his tongue, by using it as a weapon, that is considered as the violence of the hands. So those who lift their tongues up to the vanity of slander and mischief have DEFILED THEMSELVES, and made their hands bloody .

This is why when a person speaks evil, it is worse than having unwashed hands. Because in their hearts they are murderers, and they use their tongue as a weapon of death against the soul of another. That is being bloody, that is murder, and that is the real self-defilement that will take a person's soul to totenreiches.

This is why, in Matthew 5, Christ says if a man so much as calls a brother a fool, that he is in danger of totenreiches. It is that important not to injure another person's soul.
Yeah, and that's maybe why I should check out of the internet forum thing. I come dangerously close to that line, if not over it, in several of these pointless exchanges that never seem to go anywhere productive. They seem quite toxic. One of the few health problems I've had -- a bad case of shingles -- came the day after a very nasty exchange of emails with a former teacher and friend, which I have no doubt was the cause. I'm probably more immune to such a reaction after a few years of internet forum participation, but can that be good?

On the other hand, the toxicity in these exchanges usually comes because people don't understand the rules of engagement in a debate, a deficiency I feel I'm correcting. And I'm in no danger of being made prideful by them, because most people tell me what an idiot I am.

I used to do this for a living in the '80s as a conservative polemicist, and it soon became clear that the whole business was utterly pointless because the public discourse is completely shot through with lies and propaganda rooted in self interest. Is the semi-public discourse of these internet forums equally as futile? I'm Interested in getting your opinion on this, Adama. I will get personal when the argument goes in that direction, and that is certainly not worth putting my health, or my soul, at risk.

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by Adama » October 2nd, 2017, 4:44 pm

Once you're saved, you're saved; rescued from hell. He will not take away your salvation. Only that, other forms of punishment can come. There's another saying that goes along with this one: judge not lest ye be judged. A harsher condemnation (from another person's mouth) is what some people may receive.

As for whether or not discussion is worth it? Probably not. I like to think that men like you, me, Winston, and even Cornfed can get together and discuss this topic civilly. And others who have an interest in this discussion.

However, there are others who are just determined for us to shut our mouths, as if we are speaking evil, great blasphemy and raining down hellfire. In order to get us to stop discussion, some of this type use their tongues to rain down sorrow upon us, in the form of insults and shaming. Somehow they think they are protecting the innocent and they think they are fighting for a just cause, when really they are exalting themselves in mischief and exalting shame.

Knowledge and truth are for those people who are capable and willing to receive it. Some people are incapable. Some are unwilling. And some are both unable to believe it and unable to accept it.

Personally it doesn't matter to me what anyone else believes. It doesn't matter to me if they believe or accept what I have to say. But I do expect not to be attacked for saying it, especially if I have not done anything to that person. A freedom of words that are not evil should be allowed. But somehow others seek to restrict our words and insult us for not keeping their commandments, of not uttering blasphemy against their religion.

It must be an evil religion with an evil god, if they have to always resort to insults to protect it. And that evil god is the ego, also known as pride. That's why the prideful are swift to crush the innocent.

As this is why the meek/the humble will inherit the earth. Prideful/proud = murderer of the heart. Meek/humble = peaceful. One of them are God's children who will inherit His Kingdom. The other set set themselves against Him and are at risk of becoming His enemies, because the enemies of peace are the enemies of the Prince of peace. The enemies of truth are the enemies of Christ.

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » October 2nd, 2017, 5:00 pm

MrPeabody wrote:
gsjackson wrote:
MrPeabody wrote:
gsjackson wrote:
Adama wrote:See, they don't perceive the deeper matters. This is not even about germs. It's about the spirit that is within the man. It is the spirit of man that is the matter, not the physically cleanliness of his hands. It is a matter of whether the man himself is unclean in his heart, not whether he eats with unwashed hands. This is the problem the Pharisees also failed to understand.

Lots of people don't wash their hands before they eat. The stomach is strong enough to kill those germs. Now surgery is a different matter, because we are talking about open wounds and bypassing the body's natural defenses. The stomach itself can defend the body from what comes into it.
Yeah, the point Jesus is making really isn't all that controversial today -- the health of the mind and body are intimately related. A turbulent mind is infinitely more dangerous than some random germ.
He could have made the same point using another analogy. But the main point is that the story clearly shows Jesus wasn't aware of germs and it also shows that the pharisees who washed their hands before they eat were more intelligent than Jesus.
Huh? It clearly does not show that. It shows that Jesus was capable of intelligent prioritizing of health practices.
If he was prioritizing health practices, he would have confirmed that people should wash their hands before they eat. Back then there were a lot of germs, and if you got one of them you were dead. There was no medical science. Jesus clearly wasn't god. If he was god, he would be evil for intentionally misleading people when he was given an opportunity to confirm that people should wash their hands. Just saying "wash your hands before you eat" would have been more valuable than all of the mediocre writing in the New Testament.
OK, you can repeat the assertion about the need for hand washing to a person who has told you that in 67 years he has found no value in it, but it's kind of like citing a passage from, say, the Koran to make a point, being told by your interlocutor that he does not accept the authority of the Koran, and in response citing another passage from it. To what end? And neglecting to underscore this little germphobe nanny canard proves the absence of divinity? That's a good one.

"Back then there were a lot of germs, and if you got one of them you were dead. There was no medical science." These are assertions of historical fact. Are you more or less prepared to defend their accuracy than that of the persecuted hand-washing surgeons?

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by Adama » October 2nd, 2017, 5:19 pm

Some people haven't received the wisdom of God. So they refuse to acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God and the Creator, and they therefore think they are smarter than God Himself. If there are humble people, would they believe they are smarter than God? Now you see- a person must be humble to be saved. The proud have no place for God in their hearts. Their hearts (egos) are their gods. There is no God before them. They are number one, not God.They are their own gods.

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » October 2nd, 2017, 7:51 pm

Adama wrote:Once you're saved, you're saved; rescued from hell. He will not take away your salvation. Only that, other forms of punishment can come. There's another saying that goes along with this one: judge not lest ye be judged. A harsher condemnation (from another person's mouth) is what some people may receive.

As for whether or not discussion is worth it? Probably not. I like to think that men like you, me, Winston, and even Cornfed can get together and discuss this topic civilly. And others who have an interest in this discussion.

However, there are others who are just determined for us to shut our mouths, as if we are speaking evil, great blasphemy and raining down hellfire. In order to get us to stop discussion, some of this type use their tongues to rain down sorrow upon us, in the form of insults and shaming. Somehow they think they are protecting the innocent and they think they are fighting for a just cause, when really they are exalting themselves in mischief and exalting shame.

Knowledge and truth are for those people who are capable and willing to receive it. Some people are incapable. Some are unwilling. And some are both unable to believe it and unable to accept it.

Personally it doesn't matter to me what anyone else believes. It doesn't matter to me if they believe or accept what I have to say. But I do expect not to be attacked for saying it, especially if I have not done anything to that person. A freedom of words that are not evil should be allowed. But somehow others seek to restrict our words and insult us for not keeping their commandments, of not uttering blasphemy against their religion.

It must be an evil religion with an evil god, if they have to always resort to insults to protect it. And that evil god is the ego, also known as pride. That's why the prideful are swift to crush the innocent.

As this is why the meek/the humble will inherit the earth. Prideful/proud = murderer of the heart. Meek/humble = peaceful. One of them are God's children who will inherit His Kingdom. The other set set themselves against Him and are at risk of becoming His enemies, because the enemies of peace are the enemies of the Prince of peace. The enemies of truth are the enemies of Christ.
Thanks for the absolution, but I think I crossed the line when I speculated about the reasons for House's suicidal thoughts. It was dime store psychology, and I apologize to him. I just started seeing red when he called you stupid, twice.

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by MrPeabody » October 2nd, 2017, 9:22 pm

What Jesus and Flat Earthers don't know. This information is more valuable than anything in the New Testament.

Handwashing with soap removes germs from hands. This helps prevent infections because:

People frequently touch their eyes, nose, and mouth without even realizing it. Germs can get into the body through the eyes, nose and mouth and make us sick.

Germs from unwashed hands can get into foods and drinks while people prepare or consume them. Germs can multiply in some types of foods or drinks, under certain conditions, and make people sick.

Germs from unwashed hands can be transferred to other objects, like handrails, table tops, or toys, and then transferred to another person’s hands.

Removing germs through handwashing therefore helps prevent diarrhea and respiratory infections and may even help prevent skin and eye infections.

Teaching people about handwashing helps them and their communities stay healthy. Handwashing education in the community:

Reduces the number of people who get sick with diarrhea by 31% 1, 2

Reduces diarrheal illness in people with weakened immune systems by 58% 3

Reduces respiratory illnesses, like colds, in the general population by 16-21% 2, 4

https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/why-handwashing.html

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Re: The Earth is FLAT and Motionless, Not A Spinning Globe!

Post by gsjackson » October 2nd, 2017, 10:13 pm

MrPeabody wrote:What Jesus and Flat Earthers don't know. This information is more valuable than anything in the New Testament.

Handwashing with soap removes germs from hands. This helps prevent infections because:

People frequently touch their eyes, nose, and mouth without even realizing it. Germs can get into the body through the eyes, nose and mouth and make us sick.

Germs from unwashed hands can get into foods and drinks while people prepare or consume them. Germs can multiply in some types of foods or drinks, under certain conditions, and make people sick.

Germs from unwashed hands can be transferred to other objects, like handrails, table tops, or toys, and then transferred to another person’s hands.

Removing germs through handwashing therefore helps prevent diarrhea and respiratory infections and may even help prevent skin and eye infections.

Teaching people about handwashing helps them and their communities stay healthy. Handwashing education in the community:

Reduces the number of people who get sick with diarrhea by 31% 1, 2

Reduces diarrheal illness in people with weakened immune systems by 58% 3

Reduces respiratory illnesses, like colds, in the general population by 16-21% 2, 4

https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/why-handwashing.html
There is a very large percentage of the population who are oblivious to health concerns, even self-destructive in many cases, and these stats are for them. Germs are far from their biggest problem, though they may sometimes be the proximate cause of a disease that had been built into their way of life and was inevitable. Focus your thoughts and habits on good health, and you won't need to worry about micro-organisms, as Jesus knew.

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