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Masonic Temple ... and stuff

Discuss conspiracies, mysteries and paranormal phenomena.

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Masonic Temple ... and stuff

Postby Hoecus » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:21 am

Grunt brought up a discussion on the Masonic Temple and how it is the right hand of Lucifer .. or something.. so here is my take on it ... and other things.

The Masonic Temple , or Masons , is a group of people that pass their doctrines through word of mouth. There are no books to be found telling of their secret rituals and beliefs. It is a group of symbolism and "Degrees". Each degree grants you new enlightenment and "powers".

To ask a man "How old is your mother" would seem a normal question... but when asked to a Mason it means a totally different thing ! They are masters of word manipulation and hidden signs. They even have a handshake that only a Mason can recognize. To any other person it means nothing.

The symbol for a Mason is a big "G" in the center of a compass and a square. Some may say that G stands for God and the square and compass are symbols that mean God will always give you a "square" deal and that his power "encompasses" all. Those could very well be only rumors.

Every ritual is in secret. It is no secret as to how you become a Mason. You petition. Even that process is not a hidden secret. If you petition you will be given a form to complete. You must have 5 Masons that will "testify" for you. When you gather those names then you go to the lodge and have a meeting. You stand before the other Mason's and say your name and your sponsors.

After that you will be sent into the world. You are to to good deeds and know that these people can be watching you at all times... like the "All Seeing Eye" on our dollar bill.

At some point you will be approached by 3 different people at any given time. They may ask you for a favor or may just talk with you. It may even be your next-door neighbor. Soon after that you will be visited by 3 men at your home. They can ask you to do anything or they can simply drink some coffee and leave.

After that you will get a summons at a random time. You will never know when this summons will come and you must immediately leave whatever you are doing and go. You will be taken to the lodge and put in front of all the people . The men that visited you and watched you will say what they saw and "bear witness" to you. After that all men in the lodge will be given a black ball and a white ball. You will be asked to leave the lodge and the men will then cast their "lot" for you.

There are 2 jugs that you can see through that these men will put their balls into. One is a vote "for" you and the other is the "cull jug". After all votes are cast you are asked to come back in and stand before them again. The jug is brought before you and the cover is removed showing all of the balls. If there is a single black ball in the jug then you are not accepted into the Masonic Temple. That is where the term "Black - Balled" comes from.

You will be given another chance to be voted for in 6 months. Again you will be watched and visited and again the process will happen. You may do this as many times as you want.

Most all of the signing men on the Declaration of Independence , our Presidents , Governors , City Officials , FBI .. etc.. are Masons. Bush is also a Skull and Crossbones.

When someone talks conspiracy and word manipulation I don't even think of Masons. Yes.. their words are manipulations or alterations of other things. Like the example of "How old is your mother". But ALL people use word manipulation.

For instance.. when asked "Do you know .. (name)" that is a word manipulation. If someone asks you .. Do you know Hoecus .. you may reply .. I know that man Hoecus on the internet... but you do not actually "know" me.

If I meet you in a cafe and we talk and meet each other for an hour.. someone may ask .."So you are connected to Hoecus".. actually you are not , but it can be manipulated to be a "yes".

If someone asks "So you and Hoecus have correspondence ?" .. that answer is no... but then they might say.. but you reply to him on posts made on the internet.

Word manipulation is everywhere. We use it every day. When it comes to the Masons they have secret rituals that they do not want to spread except for members, so they use word manipulation to hide what they want secret.

Drug dealers do the same thing. Gun runners do the same thing. Mafia do the same thing. What makes them any different? If a mafia guy says, "Give him lead boots"... we all know what that means ..but we hear it all of the time in movies. If we never saw it or heard it then we could wonder what the hell it meant.. like rap lyrics !

So I say.. prove these guys are any worse than average people . Prove they are worse than street thugs... do that and then look at who were Masons. Sure you can say the leader of the Ku Klux Klan .. but what about George Washington, John Adams , Abraham Lincoln, Benjamin Franklin .. that list can go forever. Sure , if you look for bad apples, you will find some everywhere.

The Masons have been around for many centuries and will continue to live as long as there is a belief that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. The Masons come from the Knights Templar , the guardians of the Holiest artifact ever known.. IF you believe that Jesus did exist.

That's the only history I know of them... maybe.

Ray
Death, It Comes Soon My Love
Demons Play Dressed In Candlelight
Scarlet Rain On Skin As Snow Never Fades

Cum My Love And Take The Devil's Kiss
My Lust Drenched In Blood
My Love Split The Skin
My Lust

Mortal Dreams, Thousand Years
Through These Eyes I Have Held You All
Shadow Tears, When Roses Fade,
You Will Stay

Eternal Winter
Angles Cry
Father Doesn't Hear
Hoecus
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Postby Grunt » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:41 am

Ok let me translate that for anyone interested.

"Im a tool. Im a tool. Im a big fat freakin tool." - heocus

Anyhow. The garden variety golf club wielding chinese jet pilot may spout off with opinion and conjecture, but those not interested in spending life as a tool stick with facts. Not obscure facts, mind you, but facts extracted directly from the actual subject in question. In this case, masons.

Worship does occur in Masonic Lodges. One of the primary purposes of Freemasonry is worship. That fact is clearly stated in the Declaration of Principles which is contained on pages 37-39 of the Indiana Monitor and Freemason's Guide. (To examine the source materials, see footnotes.) Masons worship a god which they call the Great Architect of the Universe. The symbol they have chosen to represent their god is the All Seeing Eye, which the Egyptians used to represent their pagan god, Osiris. Many Masons are well aware of the pagan connection. It is clearly stated in a number of Masonic Monitors. An example is found on page 116 of the Kentucky Monitor.

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/gllink.htm

Plus Ill toss in some quotes from some masons. Food for thought.

"First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear without noise and without ...." page 244 'Illustrious' Arthur Edward Waite 33°
The Book Of Black Magic

"I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifer, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as as it may please him, and in return Lucifer promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfil my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed..... { Invocant signs pact with his own blood } " page CIV 'Illustrious' Manley Palmer Hall 33°
The Secret Teachings of All Ages
Grunt
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Postby Enishi » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:57 am

I found this on the website of a student who practices the system in Franz Bardon's "Initiation into Hermetics".

http://www.lava.net/~pagios/popquiz4q.htm

“It’s the Masons! They are using their occult and psychic powers against me.â€￾ (A woman told me this expressing her sincere fear and loathing of this organization.)

(From what I know about the Masons, a teenager who goes into Borders Bookstore and buys a book on casting spells knows a hundred times more about occult and psychic powers than do the Masons. I know, I know, they have this special edition of the Bible with its slanted philosophical agenda. They have secret rites and many levels of initiation. And Oh so many U.S. presidents and those in the inner circles of government have been members.

Try this. My father was initiated into the Masons to their next to highest level. It wasn’t that my father didn’t possess magic. He had an entire band of angels who watched over him as well as a few demons who stepped in on special occasions for special operations the angels don’t handle.

In spite of that, he was so extroverted that the practice of meditation, concentration, or introversion necessary for magic would have been beyond his powers of imagination. If there were a magic quotient, an intelligence test, or an SAT for magical aptitude, he would have scored zero. And I would have to concede that the same percentile of total ineptitude applied equally to everyone in the Masons he associated with—and he probably knew everyone with any clout.

So when a woman tells me the Masons are casting spells on her I am witness to a mind that needs to feel important by having a well-defined enemy. Without this self-inflation of her ego, her life risks falling into insignificance and irrelevance. “Even paranoids have enemiesâ€￾ but I don’t think the Masons are one of them.


I don't know much either way, but I also found some mentions on other sites about them being degenerate, meddling in politics, and their order an artificial mockery of the more genuine Initiates. However, I also found positive things as well.

Nevertheless, I suspect that the reality of the situation is a bit more complex, and not a simple matter of "RAWR Masons are EVIL!"
Last edited by Enishi on Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Grunt » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:38 am

The most unusual aspect of this topic is I don't rely on hearsay or opinion or even simple observation.

These are the statements of masons themselves. Not garden variety "porch masons" either, but the high ranking, policy making, movers and shakers.

Put simply, if the witchdoctor thinks howling at the moon will turn him into a werewolf, no amount of logic or reasoning will persuade him otherwise.

Hes gonna howl at the moon at drink blood, not because YOU believe in it, or because I believe in it, BUT BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IN IT.

Saying the masons dont exist or have no power is the philosophical equivelent of saying the Nazi's didnt invade poland or that the communists didnt purge millions, or that the mexican narco-syndicate isnt setting up shop in America.

Just because someone isnt paying attention, does not mean something isnt happening.
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yup

Postby Hoecus » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:29 am

I agree with you Grunt , about the howling at the moon.. but I can tell you the Masons are real and I have never had a negative experience with them.. ever. I can't say that I am a 33 degree, either. That is a position that is reserved for people beyond the "Master Mason" status. You might be true in stating that it is a "Church".

As far as rituals and "secret" stuff... we ALL do that. You just do not call it a ritual.

One example .. to make one's body clean you may do the "Shower Ritual". You may not tell everyone what you do in that shower ritual.. therefore, you have a secret. We call it "Taking a shower" not "Cleaning our body". That seems laughable now.. but what about thousands of years ago?

What of John the Baptist in the Holy Bible? he would stand in the river and flail himself until he bled ! To me that is freaky and some weird shit... but , for him, it was as God commanded.. if you believe in the Holy Bible.

If you believe that Masons are Satanist or Luciferians or that they summon demons then you have to say America is a country of Devil-Worship. That we are a country led by Devil-Worshippers. There is no other thing you can say. ALL of our higher-end politicians are Masons. Masons help other Masons. If a Mason is in power and a non-Mason seeks help.. and another Mason asks the same help.. the Mason will get it every time.

Masons do not practice equal opportunity. They are the most prejudice people on the Earth.... because they believe in helping Masons first and foremost.

About these people you quote as being 33 degree... when was it? Are they still Masons or were they thrown from the Temple? I think if you actually look and not just spout quotes you will find the rabbit hole is deeper than you know.

Ray
Death, It Comes Soon My Love
Demons Play Dressed In Candlelight
Scarlet Rain On Skin As Snow Never Fades

Cum My Love And Take The Devil's Kiss
My Lust Drenched In Blood
My Love Split The Skin
My Lust

Mortal Dreams, Thousand Years
Through These Eyes I Have Held You All
Shadow Tears, When Roses Fade,
You Will Stay

Eternal Winter
Angles Cry
Father Doesn't Hear
Hoecus
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:35 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Postby Grunt » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:40 am

See, there is a common trait among communists, nazis, feminists, etc etc

They are all practiced in the art of "dehumanization".

See, once you dehumanize a person or group of persons...you are then free to do anything to them. Up to and including murder. See, because its not really murder. They are not human, dont you see?

Same thing with masons. And its nothing like "masons helping masons" its about masons dehumanizing the entire society that isnt masonic (they call us the "unenlightened").

The masons do not seek peaceful coexistence, they seek complete and total domination...just like all cults do. Just like the aforementioned communists, nazis, and feminists.

But at least the communists, nazis and feminists are open about their aspirations. And thats more than can be said of the masons.
Grunt
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Re: Masonic Temple ... and stuff

Postby sharpbws » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:03 pm

As a Mason myself, I'll correct your more obvious errors.

Hoecus wrote: To ask a man "How old is your mother" would seem a normal question... but when asked to a Mason it means a totally different thing ! They are masters of word manipulation and hidden signs. They even have a handshake that only a Mason can recognize. To any other person it means nothing.


Well, other than a sign and words to use to let other Mason's know you are in life-threatening distress, and those signs and countersigns that identify you as a Mason and allows you entry to a meeting of Masons, I know of no such secret words or phrases.

Hoecus wrote: After that you will be sent into the world. You are to to good deeds and know that these people can be watching you at all times... like the "All Seeing Eye" on our dollar bill. At some point you will be approached by 3 different people at any given time. They may ask you for a favor or may just talk with you. It may even be your next-door neighbor. Soon after that you will be visited by 3 men at your home. They can ask you to do anything or they can simply drink some coffee and leave.


Other than members of the lodge you are applying for membership visiting you in your home, this is all hogwash.

Hoecus wrote: After that you will get a summons at a random time. You will never know when this summons will come and you must immediately leave whatever you are doing and go. You will be taken to the lodge and put in front of all the people . The men that visited you and watched you will say what they saw and "bear witness" to you.


All bullshit.

Hoecus wrote: After that all men in the lodge will be given a black ball and a white ball. You will be asked to leave the lodge and the men will then cast their "lot" for you. There are 2 jugs that you can see through that these men will put their balls into. One is a vote "for" you and the other is the "cull jug". After all votes are cast you are asked to come back in and stand before them again. The jug is brought before you and the cover is removed showing all of the balls. If there is a single black ball in the jug then you are not accepted into the Masonic Temple. That is where the term "Black - Balled" comes from.


Basically true. But the same basic practice is followed by country clubs, fraternities, sororities, and other private gatherings of people worldwide.

Hoecus wrote: So I say.. prove these guys are any worse than average people . Prove they are worse than street thugs... do that and then look at who were Masons. Sure you can say the leader of the Ku Klux Klan .. but what about George Washington, John Adams , Abraham Lincoln, Benjamin Franklin .. that list can go forever. Sure , if you look for bad apples, you will find some everywhere.

The Masons have been around for many centuries and will continue to live as long as there is a belief that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. The Masons come from the Knights Templar , the guardians of the Holiest artifact ever known.. IF you believe that Jesus did exist.


The only requirement to be a Mason is to believe in a higher power that controls the universe. There is NO requirement that a Mason be a christian.
:-)
Brad
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Postby sharpbws » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:21 pm

Grunt wrote:Ok let me translate that for anyone interested.

"Worship does occur in Masonic Lodges. One of the primary purposes of Freemasonry is worship. That fact is clearly stated in the Declaration of Principles which is contained on pages 37-39 of the Indiana Monitor and Freemason's Guide. (To examine the source materials, see footnotes.) Masons worship a god which they call the Great Architect of the Universe. The symbol they have chosen to represent their god is the All Seeing Eye, which the Egyptians used to represent their pagan god, Osiris. Many Masons are well aware of the pagan connection. It is clearly stated in a number of Masonic Monitors. An example is found on page 116 of the Kentucky Monitor.

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/gllink.htm



You couldn't be more wrong. Masonry is NOT a religion. Freemasonry explicitly and openly states that it is neither a religion nor a substitute for one. "There is no separate Masonic God", nor a separate proper name for a deity in any branch of Freemasonry.

Regular Freemasonry requires that its candidates believe in a Supreme Being, but the interpretation of the term is subject to the conscience of the candidate. This means that men from a wide range of faiths, including (but not limited to) Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism, etc. can and have become Masons.

Grunt wrote:Plus Ill toss in some quotes from some masons. Food for thought.

"First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear without noise and without ...." page 244 'Illustrious' Arthur Edward Waite 33°
The Book Of Black Magic

"I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifer, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as as it may please him, and in return Lucifer promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfil my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed..... { Invocant signs pact with his own blood } " page CIV 'Illustrious' Manley Palmer Hall 33°
The Secret Teachings of All Ages


I've never heard anything like this in any lodge I've attended. Since 3° is the highest level you can obtain in Blue Masonry, I'm assuming that this may be from some ceremony from an appendant body of Masonry, like the Scottish Rite, York Rite and Shriners. Appendant bodies are administered separately from Craft Grand Lodges but are styled Masonic since every member must be a Mason. They have NOTHING to do with pure basic masonry.
:-)
Brad
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Postby Enishi » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:26 pm

Are the Masons mostly a political order with various rituals that only have a passing resemblance to those of occult orders, or do some of the higher levels practice actual meditation and theurgy and the like?
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Postby sharpbws » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:38 pm

Enishi wrote:Are the Masons mostly a political order with various rituals that only have a passing resemblance to those of occult orders, or do some of the higher levels practice actual meditation and theurgy and the like?


To be honest, it's mostly a social order, where men of high moral quality gather and try to help each other improve themselves. The harder you work at unlocking the secrets of masonry, the more you get out of it.

While I am a Mason in good standing, I haven't been to Lodge in years. But I am a member of the same lodge where my father, uncles, grand-father, great-grand father and great-great-grandfather were/are members.
:-)
Brad
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Postby Grunt » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:29 pm

Sorry everyone. I hit edit instead of quote and deleted some of Grunts message by accident. Please accept my apology and Grunt you are invitied to pre-post your original message if you so wish.

Grunt wrote:
The gathering of lower level masons also allows the higher level masons to "cherry pick" those masons they wish to promote up through the ranks. Upper level masons despise lower level masons because they are in effect useful idiots that are there to get something for free. When a low level masons is chosen to advance, he is given rituals and tasks to perform. The higher the level, the more bizarre and sinister the demand, just as any cult. For links to some links regarding masonic rituals and the inordinate amount of deaths that happen during them visit: http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/mas ... ation.html


You couldn't be more wrong. Any Master Mason can advance to the higher levels by paying a substantial fee and attending a one-day school. All are invited to pursue higher degrees if they wish. Nobody is "selected". It has NOTHING to do with actual freemasony.

Grunt wrote:That said, asking a low level mason about masonry is about of logical as asking a kid in basic training about the army. He simply does not know enough, and his perspective is skewed. Ask a E-6 or O-3 what the army is all about and you will get a much better idea.


So YOU know better than an actual Mason? You are wrong on all accounts. Dude you have it all backwards. The REAL Masons are the Blue Lodge Masons. There is no degree in Freemasonry higher than that of Master Mason, the Third Degree. There are appendant organizations that offer symbolic higher degrees and they try to provide their membership with a further perspective on some of the allegorical, moral and philosophical content of Freemasonry. But in fact, these appendent organizations have no authority over the Craft. That would include anyone claiming to be a 32 or 33 degee Mason.
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Blue?

Postby Hoecus » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:25 pm

So, Brad...


You are saying there is no "true" Mason over the 3rd Degree? But then you say ... Any Master Mason... IF you are a Mason .. then you know ONLY after the 4th degree are you a "Master Mason". Clarify what you think you know.

Also.. If you are a "True Blue Mason" ... then you would NOT know what it means when asked how old your mother is.. since that is a higher Degree than 3rd. Also.. you would not know the ritual for the 4th Degree.. or the Master Mason degree... or what was meant when asked if you would carry me down the river... or Roll my Bones.

At best you were probably a De Moley.

Ray
Death, It Comes Soon My Love
Demons Play Dressed In Candlelight
Scarlet Rain On Skin As Snow Never Fades

Cum My Love And Take The Devil's Kiss
My Lust Drenched In Blood
My Love Split The Skin
My Lust

Mortal Dreams, Thousand Years
Through These Eyes I Have Held You All
Shadow Tears, When Roses Fade,
You Will Stay

Eternal Winter
Angles Cry
Father Doesn't Hear
Hoecus
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:35 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Blue?

Postby sharpbws » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:39 pm

Hoecus wrote:So, Brad... You are saying there is no "true" Mason over the 3rd Degree? But then you say ... Any Master Mason... IF you are a Mason .. then you know ONLY after the 4th degree are you a "Master Mason". Clarify what you think you know.


What I know is a fact. A 3rd Degree Mason is a Master Mason. There is no such thing as a 4th Degree Master Mason in any of freemasonry. I've been a Master Mason since 1987.

Hoecus wrote: Also.. If you are a "True Blue Mason" ... then you would NOT know what it means when asked how old your mother is.. since that is a higher Degree than 3rd. Also.. you would not know the ritual for the 4th Degree.. or the Master Mason degree... or what was meant when asked if you would carry me down the river... or Roll my Bones.


Of course not since because as I explained earlier, it doesn't have anything to do with true Masonry. Anybody that will try to tell you that a 32 or 33 degree is higher than a 3rd degree in Masonry doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.

Hoecus wrote: At best you were probably a De Moley.


As usual, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Apparently some drunken Scottish Rite Mason told you just enough of his secrets to make you look absolutely stupid to a real Mason. You clearly were never even a 1st degree Mason.
Last edited by sharpbws on Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
:-)
Brad
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Postby Grunt » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:44 pm

The ranks of masonry are available here. http://gw820lodge.tripod.com/Freemasonr ... egrees.htm

And to clarify, trhe order of de molay is a subgroup of masonry for male children of masons.

These little stooges wear dracula capes, are the drug dealers in the schools, (children of police officers), and they also are the snitches for the principal and the like, ratting the other kids out for smoking behind shop class.

Basically a carbon copy of masonry but at a lower level.
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Postby sharpbws » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:26 am

Grunt wrote:The ranks of masonry are available here. http://gw820lodge.tripod.com/Freemasonr ... egrees.htm


Yes they are and the text proves without question that neither you nor Hoecus knows what in the hell you're talking about when it comes to Masonry; especially Hoecus. As usual, he's 5% fact and 95% bullshit.

From your own source:

"There are three branches of Freemasonry in which a Master Mason (Third Degree) may proceed after he has completed the three degrees of Symbolic or Blue Lodge Masonry. There are Masonic organizations where their degrees are in addition to and in no way "higher" than Blue Lodge degrees. Their work amplifies and elaborates on the lessons of the Craft. The 3rd Degree, that of the Master Mason, is the highest degree the can be given in all of Freemasonry."

"Although the Scottish Rite degrees are numbered, it is not to imply that masons who have achieved these degrees are of "higher" rank. The highest degree in Freemasonry is the sublime degree of Master Mason or 3° which is given in the Blue Lodge."

Grunt wrote: And to clarify, trhe order of de molay is a subgroup of masonry for male children of masons. These little stooges wear dracula capes, are the drug dealers in the schools, (children of police officers), and they also are the snitches for the principal and the like, ratting the other kids out for smoking behind shop class. Basically a carbon copy of masonry but at a lower level.


Since you are bound and determined to continue to show your ignorance concerning Masonry, I'll let your statement stand as is unchallenged. Readers should give it the same degree of credibility as the truthfulness of Grunt's past statements on this topic.
:-)
Brad
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