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Questions about Central Banks, Federal Reserve and Fiat Currency

Discuss conspiracies, mysteries and paranormal phenomena.

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gsjackson
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Re: Questions about fiat currency and central banks

Post by gsjackson » October 29th, 2017, 5:46 pm

Winston wrote:I dont get something about fiat currency and central banks. Can anyone explain them?

If the central banks print money out of nothing, then its worthless. Not debt. Not a loan. So what do the banks lose if they cancel the debt? The money is worthless. They can print money and put it in their own pocket. So why do they need to be paid back? Do u see what i mean?

Also how come the income tax in taiwan is only 10 percent? How does the government in taiwan function that way but italian government cannot? The average italian is intellectual, much more than taiwanese. The average taiwanese is primitive like animals and dumbfuck eggshells, I swear. Not much brighter than filipinos. So how is the taiwan government more efficient than the italian government? Makes no sense.

Why doesnt the government overthrow the central banks then? Like the king of france did with the knights of templar in the 14th century because they were in huge debt to them?

So why doesnt government arrest all the bankers and cancel all debt and then the problem is solved?
Without mentioning ethnicity -- because the bankers own the government, as well as the black hole media into which your suggestion would disappear.

You should read Michael Hudson, the most interesting economist out there. He gets into history a lot, and often mentions the old custom of jubilee years in which all debts were forgiven -- about every seven years or so. Won't happen under our current rentier class.

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Winston
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Re: Questions about fiat currency and central banks

Post by Winston » October 29th, 2017, 6:00 pm

But if the government is owned by the bankers and in trillions of debt, then wouldn't the US government have an incentive to rebel and overthrow its owners too? After all trillions of debt is massive and turns them into slaves. Wouldnt the government not want to be slaves of the bankers either? Wouldnt it prefer to cancel the debt? Isnt that what the king of france did with the knights of templar?

Why do the central bankers want the debt repaid? Why does it create money out of debt? Why cant it print money without counting it as debt or loans? After all, if they can print money and pocket it, then they dont need anyone to pay off the debt right or interest right? Whats the point? I don't see the logic behind all this.

If i were the central bank I'd just print money and not ask for it to be repaid. Then i could print and pocket all the currency i want. What would i have to lose? Why the need to cause such suffering? I dont get it. It seems unnecessary.

Dont people who print money out of nothing have all the money they could ever want? For them money grows on trees. They have magic power to print money out of thin air. So why demand it be repaid? Makes no sense.
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Re: Questions about fiat currency and central banks

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » October 29th, 2017, 6:14 pm

Winston wrote: If the central banks print money out of nothing, then its worthless. Not debt. Not a loan. So what do the banks lose if they cancel the debt? The money is worthless. They can print money and put it in their own pocket. So why do they need to be paid back? Do u see what i mean?
Governments that print money as needed usually see inflation or hyperinflation result. One notable exception is the U.S. government which prints money as needed but the dollar is artificially kept high in value due to the "Petrodollar factor" or the fact that worldwide oil transactions must be done in dollars. This special status is a HUGE boon to the ability to print money as needed without the overall value going down. Most countries can't do that thus have much more responsible monetary policies than the USA.
Winston wrote: Also how come the income tax in taiwan is only 10 percent? How does the government in taiwan function that way but italian government cannot?
Taiwan does not have to finance trillions in military and social entitlements nor multiple war/nation building efforts therefore they have the luxury of a low rate. Also, economist Arthur Laffer's "Laffer Curve" illustrated that lower tax rates can actually INCREASE tax revenue up to a certain point. The theory is if the tax rate is moderately low, this enables individuals and businesses to use more of their earnings to grow the economy. At a certain point on the curve however, revenue will decrease if the rate is set too low.
Winston wrote: Why doesnt the government overthrow the central banks then? Like the king of france did with the knights of templar in the 14th century because they were in huge debt to them?

So why doesnt government arrest all the bankers and cancel all debt and then the problem is solved?
Governments can already legislate away their central banks so there is no need to overthrow them. But why would they want to do that and lose the tool to set interest rates, monetary policy, and supervise banking operations in the country. Wholesale nationalization of banks is a Marxist tactic that never ends well for an economy. Temporary bank nationalization does happen in the West, including in the USA. A good article on the subject explains it better than I.

https://www.thebalance.com/what-does-it ... ks-3969573

Also, which "debt" should be canceled? If you mean national debt, the USA has to repay trillions of dollars to other countries and individuals around the world in the form of purchased bonds and treasury notes. To "cancel" all that owed debt would be so serious to almost constitute an act of war at worst, and a complete tanking of the dollar and US economy at best because the perceived reliability and safety of dollar would be ruined. Some economists think the national debt is presumed to never be fully repaid, and others think that it should wait until after the dollar plummets. Both are irresponsible views IMO....

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Re: Questions about fiat currency and central banks

Post by gsjackson » October 29th, 2017, 6:56 pm

Winston wrote:But if the government is owned by the bankers and in trillions of debt, then wouldn't the US government have an incentive to rebel and overthrow its owners too? After all trillions of debt is massive and turns them into slaves. Wouldnt the government not want to be slaves of the bankers either? Wouldnt it prefer to cancel the debt? Isnt that what the king of france did with the knights of templar?

Why do the central bankers want the debt repaid? Why does it create money out of debt? Why cant it print money without counting it as debt or loans? After all, if they can print money and pocket it, then they dont need anyone to pay off the debt right or interest right? Whats the point? I don't see the logic behind all this.

If i were the central bank I'd just print money and not ask for it to be repaid. Then i could print and pocket all the currency i want. What would i have to lose? Why the need to cause such suffering? I dont get it. It seems unnecessary.

Dont people who print money out of nothing have all the money they could ever want? For them money grows on trees. They have magic power to print money out of thin air. So why demand it be repaid? Makes no sense.
Who do you think "the government" is? It's a bunch of narcissistic congresspersons believing in the magic of their own stars, and really, really not wanting to go home to the law practice in Lubbock. They believe that money = reelection, so they will do whatever they have to do to keep the donor spigots flowing. The financial sector is one of the largest sources of congressional donations, and will spend whatever is necessary to keep Congress in line. Ron Paul has been trying to call attention to the Fed for years, but Congress isn't going to mess with its paymasters.

The job of the media is to cover up and distract from this corruption, so that the congresspersons will never face any countervailing pressure from the electorate.

To answer your last paragraph: The way banks create money is by making loans -- 97 percent of the money supply. The money they loan is not sitting there in their reserves, it is created from scratch with the stroke of a keyboard. If it's not paid back at all the banks don't make any money. But at some point, when the debtor has paid back a substantial amount, including interest, and is getting trapped in the web of compounding interest, then debt forgiveness is necessary.

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Re: Questions about Fiat Currency and Central Banks like the Federal Reserve

Post by Winston » January 7th, 2018, 9:31 pm

Confession by a banker who was on the committee to create the Federal Reserve.

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Re: Questions about Fiat Currency and Central Banks like the Federal Reserve

Post by gsjackson » January 7th, 2018, 10:09 pm

This last guy, Carroll Quigley, was Bill Clinton's mentor at Georgetown. Interesting that Bubba took his views on the ruling elite as an instruction manual on self advancement, rather than a call to arms.

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Re: Questions about Fiat Currency and Central Banks like the Federal Reserve

Post by Adama » January 8th, 2018, 12:34 am

Well putting the entire world under the bondage of usury not only destroys the soul of the person who does it, but even their children are going to suffer because of it. They don't know. Even charging 1 percent interest is considered usury in God's eyes, and He has stiff penalties for the person who lends out money and charges interest.

All these generational banking clans have basically just condemned their entire lines to everlasting shame. And if you don't believe me, open up the Bible and read.

Whoops.

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Re: Questions about Fiat Currency and Central Banks like the Federal Reserve

Post by Winston » January 8th, 2018, 8:43 am

Great memes.

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Re: Questions about Fiat Currency and Central Banks like the Federal Reserve

Post by gsjackson » January 8th, 2018, 9:44 am

Adama wrote:
January 8th, 2018, 12:34 am
Well putting the entire world under the bondage of usury not only destroys the soul of the person who does it, but even their children are going to suffer because of it. They don't know. Even charging 1 percent interest is considered usury in God's eyes, and He has stiff penalties for the person who lends out money and charges interest.

All these generational banking clans have basically just condemned their entire lines to everlasting shame. And if you don't believe me, open up the Bible and read.

Whoops.
I get that high-rate compounding interest is a plague on society, especially in the fractional reserve system where the loan money is created with the stroke of a keyboard (great meme directly above). But what I don't understand about the prescription against all usury is why anyone would ever lend money if some interest could not be charged. You run the risk of it not being repaid, you lose the use of it while it is loaned out, and you get nothing back financially.

Or is the Biblical idea that loaned money is always a bad thing -- "neither a borrower nor a lender be?"

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Re: Questions about Fiat Currency and Central Banks like the Federal Reserve

Post by droid » January 8th, 2018, 11:04 am

gsjackson wrote:
January 8th, 2018, 9:44 am
Adama wrote:
January 8th, 2018, 12:34 am
Well putting the entire world under the bondage of usury not only destroys the soul of the person who does it, but even their children are going to suffer because of it. They don't know. Even charging 1 percent interest is considered usury in God's eyes, and He has stiff penalties for the person who lends out money and charges interest.

All these generational banking clans have basically just condemned their entire lines to everlasting shame. And if you don't believe me, open up the Bible and read.

Whoops.
I get that high-rate compounding interest is a plague on society, especially in the fractional reserve system where the loan money is created with the stroke of a keyboard (great meme directly above). But what I don't understand about the prescription against all usury is why anyone would ever lend money if some interest could not be charged. You run the risk of it not being repaid, you lose the use of it while it is loaned out, and you get nothing back financially.

Or is the Biblical idea that loaned money is always a bad thing -- "neither a borrower nor a lender be?"
Because there's no need for anybody to 'lend' anything. Money should be put into circulation as an individual's IOU contract that people sign up to by accepting it as payment. Once repaid, indirect barter of goods and services is fulfilled, and the note is destroyed or reissued.

For a primer on the true nature of money, read one of the most intelligent men of the 20th century, yet under the radar as jewish guys get promoted instead: Edwin Riegel. I always recommend his material but it all just goes over people's heads.

www.newapproachtofreedom
http://www.newapproachtofreedom.info/documents/pem.pdf
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?

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Re: Questions about Fiat Currency and Central Banks like the Federal Reserve

Post by Adama » January 9th, 2018, 1:44 am

gsjackson wrote:
January 8th, 2018, 9:44 am
Adama wrote:
January 8th, 2018, 12:34 am
Well putting the entire world under the bondage of usury not only destroys the soul of the person who does it, but even their children are going to suffer because of it. They don't know. Even charging 1 percent interest is considered usury in God's eyes, and He has stiff penalties for the person who lends out money and charges interest.

All these generational banking clans have basically just condemned their entire lines to everlasting shame. And if you don't believe me, open up the Bible and read.

Whoops.
I get that high-rate compounding interest is a plague on society, especially in the fractional reserve system where the loan money is created with the stroke of a keyboard (great meme directly above). But what I don't understand about the prescription against all usury is why anyone would ever lend money if some interest could not be charged. You run the risk of it not being repaid, you lose the use of it while it is loaned out, and you get nothing back financially.

Or is the Biblical idea that loaned money is always a bad thing -- "neither a borrower nor a lender be?"

Because if you help others and do what's right God will lift you up and make sure you don't fall. A man should lend explicitly expecting nothing in return. This is pleasing to God. God will see this and then He will be the one to pay you back. He that waters will be watered also himself, the liberal soul shall be made fat. Your Heavenly Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

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Re: Questions about Central Banks, Federal Reserve and Fiat Currency

Post by MrMan » January 9th, 2018, 5:34 am

The fiat currency system is kind of weird. From a historical perspective, this is a brief blip on the stage of history. It hasn't been around long enough to say it will continue to work. Remember currency was loosely tied to the gold standard even up to the time of Richard M. Nixon and the details of our current system were worked out and agreed upon in the late 1970's, with the floating exchange rates, etc.

I know you guys are down on the system, but look at the advantages. There is some kind of wealth that people recognize, at least, that probably goes far beyond what we could measure with the gold that exists in the world. I haven't checked that out. I'm just guessing here. I suppose there could be a basket of commodities that could cover the world's wealth somehow, lithium, silver, plutonium and a hundred or a thousand other things. Somehow it works. We can go to work, get paid, and people recognize the currency.

But of course the currency is just based on the belief of consumers and governments.

If you think about it, though, what is the value of gold based on? Nowadays, it has some industrial uses, but is that enough to justify it's value? I've read that silver is a better conductor of electricity. Gold also makes jewelry that doesn't usually irritate the skin. In the 'Old World', gold developed into a kind of store of wealth, into money more or less. But even that is sort of like fiat if you think about it. Why is it so valuable? So women can make nose rings and ankle bracelets out of it and show off their wealth? Is a ring really, really worth a head of cabbage which could keep you from going hungry? The value of gold is sort of symbolic, like fiat currency, and it is valuable because people believe in it. And it's price goes up and down without a connection to the value of other goods on the market at times. It was really low in the early 2000's compared to now, not explained by pure inflation alone.

This is kind of like Rawlsian political and ethical theory here-- but if some rich fat cats at a central bank make loads and loads of cash, is that a bad thing if the whole system makes the poor and the average people better off financially than a gold standard? Gold standard systems are inflexible. If more recognizable wealth exists and is in the hands of regular folks, isn't that better than if the rich bank owners did not make huge amounts of wealth than if there was a small store of wealth in gold in the hands mainly of the rich?

There are disadvantages to the fiat currency, of course. It is based on interest. Money is also created when banks lend out money and take that borrowed money back from the local community in the form of deposits. It amplifies when there are loans and economic activity. Slowed economic activity decreases the money supply.

The whole system is built on usery, too, which is bad, paying back interest. It assumes the economy will keep growing to create enough wealth to pay back the loans. One might argue that this creates an incentive to waste the worlds resources to dig up rocks to sell as pet rocks, to pump oil out of the ground to make plastic tomato slicers to sell on TV, and a bunch of other junk we don't need that pollute the planet and waste valuable resources. Economic activity keeps the system going, but a lot of it isn't environmentally sustainable or really needed for our quality of life.

I don't know the system is sustainable. Some argue that the system requires countries to borrow. At some point, when national debt goes up above a quadrillion or some trillion mark, will the other countries just say the gig is up and they don't believe our currency any more. Or a foreign power can use our debt to topple us. China may be able to come up with some kind of fiat trick to give fiat RMB value to our T-Bills while simultaneously tanking the dollar.

It does seem like a potentially unstable system, especially with the ridiculous deficits. And if the currency system unravels, as it did not quite do in the real estate security crisis about a decade ago, then those who own actual physical property without having much debt may be the ones with wealth later on. Houses, farm land, live stock, crops, and even to some degree maybe even manufacturing facilities are physical property and wealth. But a man's life is more than the sum of his positions.

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Re: Questions about Central Banks, Federal Reserve and Fiat Currency

Post by MrMan » January 9th, 2018, 5:35 am

Or is the Biblical idea that loaned money is always a bad thing -- "neither a borrower nor a lender be?"
No, Shakespeare, not the Bible. That was from the man that Hamlet ran through with a sword as he stood listening behind a curtain, mistaking the man for his uncle who killed his father and married his mother, the father of Hamlet's love interest and the father of the man who kills Hamlet at the end of the play. He gave the advice to his son as he left for some other place, Whittenberg maybe, as I recall.

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Re: Questions about Central Banks, Federal Reserve and Fiat Currency

Post by gsjackson » January 9th, 2018, 9:31 am

MrMan wrote:
January 9th, 2018, 5:35 am
Or is the Biblical idea that loaned money is always a bad thing -- "neither a borrower nor a lender be?"
No, Shakespeare, not the Bible. That was from the man that Hamlet ran through with a sword as he stood listening behind a curtain, mistaking the man for his uncle who killed his father and married his mother, the father of Hamlet's love interest and the father of the man who kills Hamlet at the end of the play. He gave the advice to his son as he left for some other place, Whittenberg maybe, as I recall.
Thought I was quoting Benjamin Franklin.

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