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Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Discuss conspiracies, mysteries and paranormal phenomena.

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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by gsjackson » January 23rd, 2018, 2:45 am

The purpose of a constitutional amendment is to change the Constitution, so yes, the 16th Amendment overrides previous language.

But I do think the Federal Reserve is on shaky constitutional ground. Congress can't farm out to a private entity complete control of the money supply. And if the American sheople ever truly understood what the Fed is, it would be gone in no time. But it's the job of the mainstream media to make sure such information never gets widespread exposure.

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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by MrMan » January 23rd, 2018, 3:09 am

Some people believe in Democracy like its a religion and think it is the cure-all for everything. But I think some of our politicians way back when saw that if a country was not going to be purely on the gold standard or something like that, then giving the Congress pure authority to vote on the value of the currency. That won't work. The country's economy would likely collapse. If you had a really economically frugal strict dictator, a dictator might be able to control something like that, but not a democracy/republic situation like ours, not as long as there are tax and spend liberals (---->print and spend liberals). Republicans have done the same thing-- just spend money.

So the Federal Reserve system, even though it concentrates power in the hands of those who own the corporation, does shield the money supply from the dangers of democracy.

Is it constitutional? The states are supposed to pay debts to the federal government in silver or gold.

But fiat currency--our version of it-- is an experiment that has lasted for a brief period of time in overall history. It is not a tried and true method. It relies on usury and constant economic growth. The drive for constant economic growth requires more and more production, which means more consumption of more natural resources and more pollution. I don't know if our economic system is consistent with the idea of having a sustainable ecosystem and system of national or global production. If it is, it would be quite a challenge to create something sustainable.

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Re: Questions about fiat currency and central banks

Post by Adama » January 23rd, 2018, 3:50 am

gsjackson wrote:
October 29th, 2017, 6:56 pm
To answer your last paragraph: The way banks create money is by making loans -- 97 percent of the money supply. The money they loan is not sitting there in their reserves, it is created from scratch with the stroke of a keyboard. If it's not paid back at all the banks don't make any money. But at some point, when the debtor has paid back a substantial amount, including interest, and is getting trapped in the web of compounding interest, then debt forgiveness is necessary.
This is actually something I wonder about. Why don't they just forgive the debt? Or at least large portions of it?

When you think about it, it can never truly be paid back, ever. And the US sometimes forgives foreign countries the debt which they owe.

Why don't the banks just forgive some of the debt? Because it can't be paid back and it affects all kinds of things negatively.

I even read that the Bank of Japan somehow bought its own country's debt and somehow that action erased some of that debt. I can't explain it because I only read it once.

Also, isn't all this just like a circle of a bunch of brothers or friends lending to each other? The bank of this country buying debt to finance this other country, while that country is buying another country's debt and so on. They could just erase the debt with a stroke of a pen, because they really just owe it to each other.

But I guess what would tank their financial balance sheets.
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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by Winston » January 23rd, 2018, 4:25 am

Is the Federal Reserve the cause of inflation and high cost of living and devaluation of the dollar in America? I heard that for 130 years between 1770 and 1900 there was no inflation and the dollar was stable. So was it the federal reserve that changed all that in 1913 as well as the banking cartel? If so why did they destroy everything? Why couldn't they leave a thriving economy and prosperous system alone? If it wasn't broke then why fix it?

Why cant they do something to lower the cost of living again or lower inflation and bring the dollar back to what it was before? At least back to 1970 when the cost of living was still decent and affordable to everyone, and anyone with a job could afford to buy a home.

This is the main problem in America, its overly high cost of living. Yet the media and politicians and even Trump never talk about it. They only talk about useless issues like racism and terrorism which are irrelevant and not gonna change so why talk about it endlessly? That pisses me off. Its so stupid. There are far more important issues that the media never mentions, such as family values, cultural degradation, lack of social connection and friendliness that America had in the 50s, etc. These are the real issues. Not racism or terrorism or lack of jobs or crime, which the majority of people do not experience.
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Re: Questions about fiat currency and central banks

Post by droid » January 23rd, 2018, 10:11 am

Adama wrote:
January 23rd, 2018, 3:50 am
gsjackson wrote:
October 29th, 2017, 6:56 pm
To answer your last paragraph: The way banks create money is by making loans -- 97 percent of the money supply. The money they loan is not sitting there in their reserves, it is created from scratch with the stroke of a keyboard. If it's not paid back at all the banks don't make any money. But at some point, when the debtor has paid back a substantial amount, including interest, and is getting trapped in the web of compounding interest, then debt forgiveness is necessary.
This is actually something I wonder about. Why don't they just forgive the debt? Or at least large portions of it?

When you think about it, it can never truly be paid back, ever. And the US sometimes forgives foreign countries the debt which they owe.

Why don't the banks just forgive some of the debt? Because it can't be paid back and it affects all kinds of things negatively.
The thing is that 90% of those loans are made from people's own accounts. i.e. The fed issues $1 and the banks re-lend it 9 times. If the debts were forgiven, then people would lose their savings. That's why the bailout was 'necessary'.

The problem with fractional reserve is not the multiplication of the currency in itself, but a complete disregard for contractual clarity, and also widespread ignorance. People should be aware that the money they deposit will be lent out, at risk, and the accounts should reflect the actual number available for withdrawal.
Adama wrote:
I even read that the Bank of Japan somehow bought its own country's debt and somehow that action erased some of that debt. I can't explain it because I only read it once.
Also, isn't all this just like a circle of a bunch of brothers or friends lending to each other? The bank of this country buying debt to finance this other country, while that country is buying another country's debt and so on. They could just erase the debt with a stroke of a pen, because they really just owe it to each other.

But I guess what would tank their financial balance sheets.
I guess it must be fun and addictive to play around and make a fortune and leave others on the hook. All legally.
One of the first things that would need to be done is to abolish or severely limit government indebtment, as governments truly have no 'credit' by any standard.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?

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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by Winston » January 24th, 2018, 2:12 am

MrMan wrote:
January 23rd, 2018, 3:09 am
Some people believe in Democracy like its a religion and think it is the cure-all for everything. But I think some of our politicians way back when saw that if a country was not going to be purely on the gold standard or something like that, then giving the Congress pure authority to vote on the value of the currency. That won't work. The country's economy would likely collapse. If you had a really economically frugal strict dictator, a dictator might be able to control something like that, but not a democracy/republic situation like ours, not as long as there are tax and spend liberals (---->print and spend liberals). Republicans have done the same thing-- just spend money.

So the Federal Reserve system, even though it concentrates power in the hands of those who own the corporation, does shield the money supply from the dangers of democracy.

Is it constitutional? The states are supposed to pay debts to the federal government in silver or gold.

But fiat currency--our version of it-- is an experiment that has lasted for a brief period of time in overall history. It is not a tried and true method. It relies on usury and constant economic growth. The drive for constant economic growth requires more and more production, which means more consumption of more natural resources and more pollution. I don't know if our economic system is consistent with the idea of having a sustainable ecosystem and system of national or global production. If it is, it would be quite a challenge to create something sustainable.
Are you kidding? You got things upside down buddy. If Congress printed money and regulated it, then everything it did would be documented and transparent. There would be ACCOUNTABILITY. The people would prefer that for sure, over a bunch of private bankers in a cartel running things from behind the shadows in secrecy, and not even allowing people to know that they even exist! Are ye daft man?! Who wants a secret group running America's money supply with no accountability and is above the law and won't even allow it to be audited? Come on man. Your head must be screwed on backwards. lol. Think man. Then take back what you said, unless of course you love conspiracies and elites to do whatever they want with America's economy in secret with no accountability, in which case you'd be in favor of evil. Remember that good works are done in the light and evil works are done in the dark. As a Christian you should know that.

Also what does the Federal Reserve have to do with Congress spending money on what it wants? You seem confused. The Federal Reserve prints fiat money and regulates it without any accountability and no checks and balances. It allows the banking cartel to own America. That has nothing to do with what Congress chooses to spend money on. If anything it just makes the problem worse and drive up inflation.

What they do is print money and then the cartel spends it on themselves, BEFORE the increased currency creates inflation. Then by the time the money trickles down, inflation will have made it worth less, hence the guys at the bottom get hit by inflation the most, while the guys at the top get to spend the free money before it causes inflation. See how that works? See the documentary about this called "The Four Horsemen".
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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by Cornfed » January 24th, 2018, 5:05 am

Winston wrote:
January 23rd, 2018, 4:25 am
Is the Federal Reserve the cause of inflation and high cost of living and devaluation of the dollar in America? I heard that for 130 years between 1770 and 1900 there was no inflation and the dollar was stable.
To be fair, that's not entirely true. A lot of trading in the nineteenth century was done with the paper receipts for precious metals issued by private banks, which often traded for a fraction of their face value depending on the reputation of the bank. Hence it was quite a soft money, inflationary environment.

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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by Winston » January 24th, 2018, 5:11 am

I have another question. The truthers like Jim Marrs said that Abraham Lincoln was shot because he printed green backs by the government rather than borrow from the central banks. But the Federal Reserve didn't exist in the 1860's right? And America didn't have any central bank printing currency at the time right? Especially since Andrew Jackson dismantled the first central bank in the 1830's. So how can that be? No one ever asked Jim Marrs that or other truthers this obvious question.

For some reason, the truthers always forget to ask such obvious questions. It's annoying that in every truther podcast on YouTube, no one ever asks the questions I would. Am I the only truther that's smart and thinks? Also, am I the only truther that's Asian? And am I the only truther that has a solution to America's problems and conspiracies? If so then I'm doubly unique! lol
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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by MrMan » January 25th, 2018, 5:06 pm

Winston, the Federal reserve doesn't just print money. Congress has to be involved for that. The chairman of the Fed has to be confirmed by the Senate. The Fed has control over interest rates and some other levers. But not everything. You can look up a lot of information about the Fed and see how it works. It's not all totally secret.

Secret or not, letting Congressmen vote on all the little adjustments the Fed makes is foolish. It would be even worse to do something like a purer form of Democracy, like using a phone app to let everyone vote on the interest rate every day. It is preferable if there are specialists trying to make sense of the economy and making micro adjustments, when compared to letting Congress handle those details, IMO.

You probably wouldn't want the public using an app to vote on which direction a medical doctor moves the knife if you were having some kind of surgery either.

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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by Winston » January 28th, 2018, 1:36 am

MrMan wrote:
January 25th, 2018, 5:06 pm
Winston, the Federal reserve doesn't just print money. Congress has to be involved for that. The chairman of the Fed has to be confirmed by the Senate. The Fed has control over interest rates and some other levers. But not everything. You can look up a lot of information about the Fed and see how it works. It's not all totally secret.

Secret or not, letting Congressmen vote on all the little adjustments the Fed makes is foolish. It would be even worse to do something like a purer form of Democracy, like using a phone app to let everyone vote on the interest rate every day. It is preferable if there are specialists trying to make sense of the economy and making micro adjustments, when compared to letting Congress handle those details, IMO.

You probably wouldn't want the public using an app to vote on which direction a medical doctor moves the knife if you were having some kind of surgery either.
That's only partially true. The official story the Fed gives you on their website is watered down. It doesn't tell you a lot of important things. For example it says the Fed was created to stabilize the economy after the Panic of 1907 when people began withdrawing all their silver and gold in droves but the bank didn't have enough to return to them, because they loaned it all out. But they don't tell you that the same bankers that caused that are the SAME ones that created the Fed and drafted the charter. If the American people had known who drafted the Fed charter then they never would have accepted it. So it was done on deception. That's why the bankers that drafted it did it in secret on Jekyll Island. Did you know that?

Also they passed the Federal Reserve Act secretly in Congress during Christmas when everyone was at home, because otherwise it would have been resisted. Again, deception.

Also the Fed is a PRIVATE CORPORATION, not government agency. The US Supreme Court has even admitted this. Do you really think a private corporation should control the money supply in America? Do you think that's what the founding fathers wanted? Think!

Don't you get it? When a bank can issue fiat money using fractional reserve banking, what they are doing is printing money out of thin air and then lending it out and charging interest for it. So in effect, they are lending out worthless paper currency and getting REAL assets and collateral for it! That's not right. That's a SCAM! You know it MrMan. Why are you denying all this? Even Adama knows this. So does everyone else here. Usury is against the Bible too. So it's against your religion too. Didn't you know that?

Did you know what Thomas Jefferson said about allowing private lending institutions to be in charge of America's currency?

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MrMan, please watch the next few videos I'm gonna post so you understand what's going on and get the big picture of how it all works.
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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by Winston » January 28th, 2018, 1:43 am

For anyone who doesn't understand how central banks work and why fiat money and fractional reserve banking is a scam used to steal real assets, property and valuable goods from others, here are some easy to understand documentaries that explain it all clearly in plain English.

Fiat Empire - Why the Federal Reserve violates the US Constitution



Century of Enslavement - The History of the Federal Reserve

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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by Winston » January 28th, 2018, 1:59 am

Court Rules Federal Reserve is Privately Owned

Case Reveals Fed’s Status as a Private Institution

Below are excerpts from a court case proving the Federal Reserve system’s status. As you will see, the court ruled that the Federal Reserve Banks are “independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations”, and there is not sufficient “federal government control over ‘detailed physical performance’ and ‘day to day operation'” of the Federal Reserve Bank for it to be considered a federal agency:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-feder ... ution/8518
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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by slazenger » February 28th, 2018, 1:21 am

Bitching and moaning about a central bank managing a fiat currency is kind of like bitching about capitalism (or some variant thereof)... it's the worst system... except for all of the others. Prior to the formation of the Federal Reserve the US experienced depressions on a fairly regular basis (largely a result of the gold standard). While highly imperfect, the Federal Reserve's "management" (for lack of a better term) of the currency has engendered a considerably more stable economy than virtually all other alternatives (domestic or abroad). Yes, it's kind of squirrely that it's privately owned, but... the Fed's financial statements are published every quarter so it's not like there's some great mystery as to where things stand. So, yeah, the Fed is far from perfect but it's not going to be the end of us. Recall that those private banks that own the Fed have a vested - albeit conflicted - interest in things not going to hell in a hand basket. In the whole scheme of things worrying too much about the Federal Reserve is chasing a red herring.

I always refer to Alan Moore regarding these things: "The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy or the grey aliens or the 12 foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless."
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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by Winston » March 19th, 2018, 6:47 pm

slazenger wrote:
February 28th, 2018, 1:21 am
Bitching and moaning about a central bank managing a fiat currency is kind of like bitching about capitalism (or some variant thereof)... it's the worst system... except for all of the others. Prior to the formation of the Federal Reserve the US experienced depressions on a fairly regular basis (largely a result of the gold standard). While highly imperfect, the Federal Reserve's "management" (for lack of a better term) of the currency has engendered a considerably more stable economy than virtually all other alternatives (domestic or abroad). Yes, it's kind of squirrely that it's privately owned, but... the Fed's financial statements are published every quarter so it's not like there's some great mystery as to where things stand. So, yeah, the Fed is far from perfect but it's not going to be the end of us. Recall that those private banks that own the Fed have a vested - albeit conflicted - interest in things not going to hell in a hand basket. In the whole scheme of things worrying too much about the Federal Reserve is chasing a red herring.

I always refer to Alan Moore regarding these things: "The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy or the grey aliens or the 12 foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless."
You seem conned by the establishment. Of course the elite caused the 1929 Great Depression and others to destabilize the economy, to justify the central bank, which all the US founding fathers opposed, and which Andrew Jackson fought hard to destroy. Why do you think they did that? You think the Great Depression was accidental or caused by greedy investors only? lol. You buy lies easily huh? You haven't seem to done any research on this. Have you listened to any lectures or interviews by James Perloff of Alan Watt or Eustace Mullins? Have you seen "The Secret of Oz" documentary on YouTube?

Do you know history? Prior to the Federal Reserve, there was no inflation or income tax. Why do you think the income tax and the Federal Reserve Act happened at the same time? They happened because when the government borrows from the Fed, they have to pay back with interest and hence collect income taxes to pay for it. Did you know that a pair of shoes in 1900 cost the same price as in 1776? That's because there was no inflation. If it wasn't for the Fed, cost of living in the US would be low today, everyone would be debt free and all homes would be paid off, etc. Husbands and wives would not both need to work to make ends meet. The wife could stay home as a housewife and raise the kids. But the Fed ruined all that. Due to the Fed, the US dollar lost 95 percent of its value in the 20th Century. Did you know that?

Of course the government is going to tell you that the Fed is necessary and the alternative would be worse. What else are they going to tell you? They are OWNED by the Fed. You don't think they are going to expose them are you? Use your street smarts common sense.

One more thing. If no one is in control of the economy of the US, as you claim, then why doesn't government incompetence or mistake occasionally result in OUR FAVOR? Instead it never does. Why? By the law of averages, mistakes ought to be in your favor sometimes. If it never is, then it's not really a mistake. You are just meant to think it is.

Alan Moore obviously isn't well informed. Many I follow that are say that more is being controlled than you imagine, A scientifically calculated dictatorship is what we live under, according to Alan Watt. Also, many US Presidents from George Washington to JFK said that a shadow government conspiracy was running things. I have posted many quotes from them. Have you seen them? After JFK, no President dared to talk about the shadow government anymore. But today, everyone knows it's there. Even the media does. A lot more is controlled than you think. Otherwise, how could multiple government agencies all cooperate in a huge cover up like the JFK assassination for instance? That requires many levels of control. And yes, they got that obviously.

@Taco , @Moretorque what do you think?
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Re: Questions about the Federal Reserve, Central Banks and Fiat Currency

Post by slazenger » March 21st, 2018, 1:49 am

Winston wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 6:47 pm

You seem conned by the establishment.
If I've been conned by the establishment, it sure has worked out well for me. In fact, I'd like to be conned to an even greater degree, if that's possible. Please point me in the direction of additional conning because... I'm all in.
Winston wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 6:47 pm
Of course the elite caused the 1929 Great Depression and others to destabilize the economy, to justify the central bank, which all the US founding fathers opposed, and which Andrew Jackson fought hard to destroy. Why do you think they did that? You think the Great Depression was accidental or caused by greedy investors only? lol. You buy lies easily huh? You haven't seem to done any research on this. Have you listened to any lectures or interviews by James Perloff of Alan Watt or Eustace Mullins? Have you seen "The Secret of Oz" documentary on YouTube?
Oki doki... clearly you're far more invested in this than I am and you've made up your mind without all of the facts. All of the folks you've mentioned (except for Andrew Jackson) are complete clowns... Perloff? He's a creationist, for god's sake (no pun intended)! Watt... where to begin... he's a scatterbrained fraud.

So, this discussion is a waste of time for both of us. Yeah, I know a little about the banking system seeing as I've written three editions of a book tangentially related to it and spent my entire career in finance. (Of course, perhaps I'm part of the establishment... and enjoying all of the benefits thereof. :wink: )

I think we should just each believe what we want and see how it works out for us, respectively. :)
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