Momopi, Rock, do these two parts look the same to you?

[Winston]

Momopi, Rock,

Look at these two photos and tell me if they are the SAME part, or NOT:

Alleged 757 engine part at the Pentagon crash



A real 757 engine




Listen to this about the piece above that Bush claims is a 757 engine:

http://www.sxolsout.org.uk/

left Man stood beside what President Bush said was a 757 Engine belonging to Flight 77 at the Pentagon.
Every non-government aviation engineer asked to date has stated this engine part, left, has never been used in a Boeing 757. It simply hasn't got the strength to play any part in the operation of a one-hundred-ton-jet. Non-government aviation engineers say this is part of a missile or military drone.
below Man working on a real 757 Engine

Also, here are the photos of the Pentagon Crash. Can you see any 757 debris in them?







What do you both think?

[momopi]

I can care less. These FUD photo comparisons between a bypass fan and some smaller rotor assembly piece have been floating around for years and it's ad naesum at this point. All I have left for people killed in 9/11 and Iraqi's killed from the invasion/occupation, is a large dose of apathy. I've "ran out" of any amount of passion/compassion on this topic.

If people actually gives a sh*t, they'd actually comment and engage in a discussion on the topic. If you had to purposely name someone in the topic to get their attention, you're forcing them to entertain you. Do yourself a favor, if you want to jerk off to 9/11 photos and videos, do it by yourself and don't ask me to join you in a circle jerk, because so far I have yet to see you get off your rear and actually do anything substantial about it.

The biggest lie to the "truth movement" is not the conspiracy theory itself -- it's "knowing" (through fuzzy youtube videos and questionable photos) will somehow, somewhere, lead to actual action. And thus they get a bunch of wishful thinking idiots on their bandwagon in a big circle jerk on the Internet. Considering the low caliber of 9/11 truth movement leadership, who are unfit to captain any ship, it's no wonder that they have to cling to every pathetically small piece of media coverage to claim a victory.


If you don't know "how" to take action, here's a manual on how to form and run a grassroots political action movement:
http://www.hjta.org/pdf/Local-Taxpayer- ... ndbook.pdf

[Winston]

I'm not asking about your compassion though. I just wanted your TECHNICAL scientific judgment on the above photos and parts.

[Winston]

I do see your point about compassion though. Compassion does not bring those killed back. Plus many more Americans were killed in the Battle of Iwo Jima than on 9/11. And many more Americans die each year of heart disease than from 9/11. And many die in the world everyday. You can't give everyone so much compassion. The deaths from heart disease in America is no less tragic than the deaths on 9/11. It's just the media hype over it that makes the difference.

But anyhow, this isn't about compassion. It's about technicalities at this point.

[momopi]

I'm not asking about your compassion though. I just wanted your TECHNICAL scientific judgment on the above photos and parts.

If you want me to spend time to research and issue a professional opinion, pay me. I don't care about 9/11, and have not cared since 2003-2004 (alea iacta est).

My rates are $1200 per day. Same for any other client for work.

The first thing that I'd do is ditch the unattractive/repulsive conspiracy nerds, low-value "photo evidence" that nobody gives a flying f*ck about, and fuzzy youtube videos. A complete makeover toward a popular, attractive nonpartisan political action movement.


If you want to save money and do it yourself, here's a beginner's manual:
http://www.hjta.org/pdf/Local-Taxpayer- ... ndbook.pdf[/quote]

[Winston]

Why do you charge $1200 a day? That's too much!

I didn't ask you to do research, just to look at two photos and tell me if they look the same or not. It only takes a few seconds to answer.

I don't think your suggestions would make much difference right now. What do you expect the Truth Movement to do? They are marching on the streets in NYC, sharing pamphlets with others, and trying to get a new independent investigation into 9/11.

They are doing all they can. What do you fault them with?

Even if you were getting paid, would you be able to do any better than Richard Gage or David Ray Griffin? They are very intelligent leaders. What would you do that they couldn't? And even if you did it, what difference would it make? The media doesn't want to touch this issue and the US government doesn't want to reopen it. So what can you do?

[momopi]

I don't think your suggestions would make much difference right now. What do you expect the Truth Movement to do? They are marching on the streets in NYC, sharing pamphlets with others, and trying to get a new independent investigation into 9/11.
They are doing all they can. What do you fault them with?
Even if you were getting paid, would you be able to do any better than Richard Gage or David Ray Griffin? They are very intelligent leaders. What would you do that they couldn't? And even if you did it, what difference would it make? The media doesn't want to touch this issue and the US government doesn't want to reopen it. So what can you do?

Step one, dump Gage, hire a professional marketing consultant and a publicist.

[Rock]

My rates are $1200 per day. Same for any other client for work.

momopi, I see you have 1,328 posts on Winston's forum. If you spend an average of 5 minutes to research and produce each one, you've already put in 110 billable hours. So it looks like Winston owes your firm about $132,800. How much of that goes into your pocket?

[Rock]

Momopi, Rock,

Look at these two photos and tell me if they are the SAME part, or NOT:

What do you both think?

Hey Winston. I realized long ago that most things are out of my control, that might is right, that a very small percentage of the population (<1%) call most of the shots and can do about anything they want with impunity. Do you think either one of us can change that? If government or big business figures did create 9/11 intentionally, I wouldn't be that surprised. I lost my trust for Uncle Sam and the big corporations a long time ago and basically voted with my feet.

Personally, I believe my greatest opportunity is to game the system to the best of my ability but with minimal harm to others, stake out a tiny sliver of turf which becomes my own reality, and enjoy it for the few decades I have left on this planet. Women and money are it.

If I had an unusual gift of persuasion and the ability to influences tens of thousands of people, then it might make sense for me to become a political activist. But given my limitations, I believe it would be a fruitless waste of time. I prefer focusing on the pleasures of life - women and the many comforts which money can bring.

Things constantly change. Everything eventually gets buried under a mountain of time. Unless these conspiracy theories are intrinsically pleasurable for someone, I don't get the point in obsessing over them or taking opinions about them personally.

[Winston]

Hi Rock,
Conspiracies are pleasurable to some. That's why there are so many books about them, and that's why there were programs like Unsolved Mysteries.

Pretend this is a Sherlock Holmes novel. What would you make of those pictures above and the questions next to them?

Sure you may be powerless to do anything about it. But that's not the point. The point is, what is the truth?

If you were adopted for instance, wouldn't you want to know the truth, even though you couldn't do anything about it?

Deep down, we all like to know the truth right?

The History Channel shows all kinds of programs about the past that we can't do anything about right? But we can learn from them.

PS - The film I recommended to you was shown several times nationwide in Russia. The people there agreed with it that the official story was a farce. It was shown in Europe too. Very compelling and convincing. At least foreigners can look at it objectively.

[globetrotter]

As others have posted it is an interior part from the engine. The first, smaller piece is likely an interior, intermediate pressure compressor blade such as pictured here:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/co ... 0265.shtml
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/co ... arison.jpg

Run the numbers for KE=1/2 mv^2 for a 757-223 at 237 m/s with a mass of 115, 000 kg.

(.5) * 115,000 * (237^2)

.5 * 115000 * 56169

= 3.23 Billion Joules

One billion joules is the minimum energy needed to melt one ton of steel, by the way.

Yes, MELT.

[Winston]

As others have posted it is an interior part from the engine. The first, smaller piece is likely an interior, intermediate pressure compressor blade such as pictured here:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/co ... 0265.shtml
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/co ... arison.jpg

Run the numbers for KE=1/2 mv^2 for a 757-223 at 237 m/s with a mass of 115, 000 kg.

(.5) * 115,000 * (237^2)

.5 * 115000 * 56169

= 3.23 Billion Joules

One billion joules is the minimum energy needed to melt one ton of steel, by the way.

Yes, MELT.

Nice demo from that F4 jet crashing into the nuclear reactor thick wall.

But you can't explain how the 757 could move at 500mph at 20 feet off the ground. Experts say that's impossible. Plus, the plane descended too fast and could not have pulled up in time. Plus, a 757 cannot do acrobatic maneuvers like spiral loops at 500mph. Plus, a person with no training on a 757 cannot fly one. Etc. Etc.

See these clips globetrotter, and explain away the superb arguments presented:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMvJUjZ8rlM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OPxDSKY2pE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAMd9b2JiFo

This is not about truthers or nutjob conspiracy theorists, which is a loaded term designed to discredit any true critical thinker who doesn't believe what he's told.

This is about PROFESSIONALS, EXPERTS, SCIENTISTS, etc. See here: http://www.patriotsquestion911.com

In regard to your video, look at the comments on YouTube:

1. The Boeing that hit the pentagon was about 13 times as heavy as this tiny jet.
2. the pentagon walls about one-third as thick, maybe less. See photos of the gaping hole
3. we don't actually SEE that there is NOTHING left, that is just what the voice over says.
4. For all we know, the essential parts of this vid could be edited, added, manipulated and photo-shopped.

Planes don't vaporise because of crashes or fuel fires. I spent 2 years on a flight deck in the Navy. I was part of the fire and rescue (red shirt) and I was also a flight deck aircraft director. (yellow shirt) Go to position :13 of the video up to :18 and it will explain why the plane could not have hit the pentagon the way it's told. You can't get a plane that size, that close to the ground at 500mph or even 400mph. And it wasn't flown straight down. It skidded across the lawn...so they say.

So you see, a 757 can't move at 500mph at ground level. You did NOT deal with that fact. Top pilots have tried to do it in a flight simulator, but no one could do it.

[Winston]

globetrotter, why did you delete the link to that video demonstration?

[Winston]

As others have posted it is an interior part from the engine. The first, smaller piece is likely an interior, intermediate pressure compressor blade such as pictured here:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/co ... 0265.shtml
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/co ... arison.jpg

Run the numbers for KE=1/2 mv^2 for a 757-223 at 237 m/s with a mass of 115, 000 kg.

(.5) * 115,000 * (237^2)

.5 * 115000 * 56169

= 3.23 Billion Joules

One billion joules is the minimum energy needed to melt one ton of steel, by the way.

Yes, MELT.

Those two links above suck. That aerospace site quotes anonymous pilots saying anonymous things! Anyone can do that! On the other hand, these are REAL pilots who have put their full name and photo behind their statements challenging the lies of 9/11:

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/91 ... 3jun06.htm

Anyone can claim anonymous pilots said this and that! What bull!

[globetrotter]

Winston, why do you assume a carrier deck firefighter is an Authority? That makes no sense. His opinion is meaningless here.

I post science, KE formula and schematics.

You post someones opinion.

I simply don't know what to say to your repetitions of other people's bad opinions, lacking in science.

Go take a look at air show flyby's as commercial jets fly over head at 300 or 400 or 500 mph.
Go look at a fighter jet video as it flies overhead at 800 mph 50 feet off the ground
The space Shuttle lands at 225 to 300 mph as it approaches the ground. If that aerodynamic brick can do so then a commercial jetliner can do so as well.

Show me the 'authority' that states the following:

"But you can't explain how the 757 could move at 500mph at 20 feet off the ground."
Of course I can. Show me where it is proven impossible. 757 are designed for a max airspeed of 520 mph for sustained, stable flight. Now, if you don't care to land, or don't care that you are placing undue stress upon the airframe, then you can fly that speed in denser air at sea level for a short period of time.

Ever landed a plane? I have. You know what happens when you get closer to the ground that one wingspan? Compressed air keeps you from descending closer. It acts as a buffer keeping you off the ground. At 520 mph that would be a great way to stay just off the ground.

-That a 757-223 cannot move at 500 mph 20 feet off the ground. Show me the experts.
-Where does anyone claim that the 757 did 'acrobatic maneuvers like spiral loops at 500mph.'? It did this miles away at a lower speed.
- Prove that someone with no training cannot fly a 757. All it takes is max throttle and point. I can do that. Anyone can fly a plane straight. Landing, taking off and banking per traffic control instructions are what is difficult.