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Momopi, Rock, do these two parts look the same to you?

Discuss conspiracies, mysteries and paranormal phenomena.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby globetrotter » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:10 am

Winston wrote:
globetrotter wrote:As others have posted it is an interior part from the engine. The first, smaller piece is likely an interior, intermediate pressure compressor blade such as pictured here:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/co ... 0265.shtml
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/co ... arison.jpg

Run the numbers for KE=1/2 mv^2 for a 757-223 at 237 m/s with a mass of 115, 000 kg.

(.5) * 115,000 * (237^2)

.5 * 115000 * 56169

= 3.23 Billion Joules

One billion joules is the minimum energy needed to melt one ton of steel, by the way.

Yes, MELT.


Those two links above suck. That aerospace site quotes anonymous pilots saying anonymous things! Anyone can do that! On the other hand, these are REAL pilots who have put their full name and photo behind their statements challenging the lies of 9/11:

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/91 ... 3jun06.htm

Anyone can claim anonymous pilots said this and that! What bull!


Winston, anyone can claim that they were a carrier deck firefighter and post a comment to YouTube. I don't know why you cannot grasp this.

As is typical of a Truther, what you post from an online source is 100.oo% true, but what I post from my online source is 100.oo% bull.
My source is nonsense but your quote from a YT comment thread is pure gold and from a professional, an expert or a scientist. (Look up Appeal to Authority).
If you cannot see the illogic of your stance, then I have no time to lead you to do so.

I have a life and have better things to do that instruct you about what ke means.

This interchange always happens with CT fanactics. It takes about 15 seconds to find a flaw, and then the Truther just denies the existence of said flaw.

That'snot Truth, that's Ideology.

Call it Religion, if you like.
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Postby Winston » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:18 am

globetrotter wrote:Winston, why do you assume a carrier deck firefighter is an Authority? That makes no sense. His opinion is meaningless here.

I post science, KE formula and schematics.

You post someones opinion.

I simply don't know what to say to your repetitions of other people's bad opinions, lacking in science.

Go take a look at air show flyby's as commercial jets fly over head at 300 or 400 or 500 mph.
Go look at a fighter jet video as it flies overhead at 800 mph 50 feet off the ground
The space Shuttle lands at 225 to 300 mph as it approaches the ground. If that aerodynamic brick can do so then a commercial jetliner can do so as well.

Show me the 'authority' that states the following:

"But you can't explain how the 757 could move at 500mph at 20 feet off the ground."
Of course I can. Show me where it is proven impossible. 757 are designed for a max airspeed of 520 mph for sustained, stable flight. Now, if you don't care to land, or don't care that you are placing undue stress upon the airframe, then you can fly that speed in denser air at sea level for a short period of time.

Ever landed a plane? I have. You know what happens when you get closer to the ground that one wingspan? Compressed air keeps you from descending closer. It acts as a buffer keeping you off the ground. At 520 mph that would be a great way to stay just off the ground.

-That a 757-223 cannot move at 500 mph 20 feet off the ground. Show me the experts.
-Where does anyone claim that the 757 did 'acrobatic maneuvers like spiral loops at 500mph.'? It did this miles away at a lower speed.
- Prove that someone with no training cannot fly a 757. All it takes is max throttle and point. I can do that. Anyone can fly a plane straight. Landing, taking off and banking per traffic control instructions are what is difficult.


Because it points out the errors in your assumption that a 757 hit the Pentagon at 500mph.

I have quoted many expert pilots, NORAD directors, FAA experts, etc. Did that matter to you? NO!

Your formulas do not prove that the 757 did what it did at the Pentagon. Nor did you solve the numerous problems in it.

You also quoted from a discredited website full of errors and propaganda, which quoted ANONYMOUS pilots. Compare that with these REAL PILOTS WHO HAVE GIVEN THEIR FULL NAME AND STATEMENTS!

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/91 ... 3jun06.htm

A fighter jet is NOT the same as a 757!!!!!!! MY GOD! Don't you realize that?!?!??!!? THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!

Fighter jets can do acrobatic maneuvers. 757's can't. The expert Robin Hordon explained it in the clips above I posted!

Did you watch it? GO WATCH THOSE CLIPS FIRST. Then come back with your points.

You can't tell the difference between a fighter jet and 757?

The manuevers and speed are documented by the NTSB. Look it up. It's official. We are going by what they say and what the radar showed.

I already quoted the experts to you in the past, BY NAME too. You erased them from your memory. Now i have to repeat them? Alright, but do not forget this time ok?! PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME SO I DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT THIS.

Captain Russ Wittenburg, 30 years of experience flying airlines:

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Retired commercial pilot. Flew for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Aircraft flown: Boeing 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777. 30,000+ total hours flown. Had previously flown the actual two United Airlines aircraft that were hijacked on 9/11 (Flight 93, which impacted in Pennsylvania, and Flight 175, the second plane to hit the WTC). Former U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions.

Image

Video interview 9/11 Ripple Effect 8/07: "I flew the two actual aircraft which were involved in 9/11; the Fight number 175 and Flight 93, the 757 that allegedly went down in Shanksville and Flight 175 is the aircraft that's alleged to have hit the South Tower. I don't believe it's possible for, like I said, for a terrorist, a so-called terrorist to train on a [Cessna] 172, then jump in a cockpit of a 757-767 class cockpit, and vertical navigate the aircraft, lateral navigate the aircraft, and fly the airplane at speeds exceeding it's design limit speed by well over 100 knots, make high-speed high-banked turns, exceeding -- pulling probably 5, 6, 7 G's. And the aircraft would literally fall out of the sky. I couldn't do it and I'm absolutely positive they couldn't do it." http://americanbuddhist.net

Article 7/17/05: "The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S. plain and simple." … Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have "descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 280 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon's first floor wall without touching the lawn."…

"For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible - there is not one chance in a thousand," said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727's to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737's through 767's it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying." http://www.arcticbeacon.com

Audio Interview 9/16/04: Regarding Flight 77, which allegedly hit the Pentagon. "The airplane could not have flown at those speeds which they said it did without going into what they call a high speed stall. The airplane won’t go that fast if you start pulling those high G maneuvers at those bank angles. … To expect this alleged airplane to run these maneuvers with a total amateur at the controls is simply ludicrous...

It’s roughly a 100 ton airplane. And an airplane that weighs 100 tons all assembled is still going to have 100 tons of disassembled trash and parts after it hits a building. There was no wreckage from a 757 at the Pentagon. … The vehicle that hit the Pentagon was not Flight 77. We think, as you may have heard before, it was a cruise missile."
http://911underground.com

---------------------------------

Here's another expert, who is named and WAY more qualified than you in flying!

PAY ATTENTION.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera ... _gun__.htm
U.S. Navy 'Top Gun' Pilot Questions 9/11

by Alan Miller Page 1 of 1 page(s)

September 5, 2007 - U.S. Navy Top Gun pilot, Commander Ralph Kolstad, started questioning the official account of 9/11 within days of the event. It just didnt make any sense to me, he said. And now 6 years after 9/11 he says, When one starts using his own mind, and not what one was told, there is very little to believe in the official story.

Now retired, Commander Kolstad was a top-rated fighter pilot during his 20-year Navy career. Early in his career, he was accorded the honor of being selected to participate in the Navys Top Gun air combat school, officially known as the U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School. The Tom Cruise movie, Top Gun reflects the experience of the young Navy pilots at the school. Eleven years later, Commander Kolstad was further honored by being selected to become a Top Gun adversary instructor. While in the Navy, he flew F-4 Phantoms, A-4 Skyhawks, and F-14 Tomcats and completed 250 aircraft carrier landings.

Commander Kolstad had a second career after his 20 years of Navy active and reserve service and served as a commercial airline pilot for 27 years, flying for American Airlines and other domestic and international careers. He flew Boeing 727, 757 and 767, McDonnell Douglas MD-80, and Fokker F-100 airliners. He has flown a total of over 23,000 hours in his career.

Commander Kolstad is especially critical of the account of American Airlines Flight 77 that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon. He says, At the Pentagon, the pilot of the Boeing 757 did quite a feat of flying. I have 6,000 hours of flight time in Boeing 757s and 767s and I could not have flown it the way the flight path was described.

Commander Kolstad adds, I was also a Navy fighter pilot and Air Combat Instructor and have experience flying low altitude, high speed aircraft. I could not have done what these beginners did. Something stinks to high heaven!


He points to the physical evidence at the Pentagon impact site and asks in exasperation, Where is the damage to the wall of the Pentagon from the wings? Where are the big pieces that always break away in an accident? Where is all the luggage? Where are the miles and miles of wire, cable, and lines that are part and parcel of any large aircraft? Where are the steel engine parts? Where is the steel landing gear? Where is the tail section that would have broken into large pieces?


So, one of the world's best pilots says he CANNOT duplicate the maneuvers of Flight 77, and that it's not possible. What does that tell you?

If you watch the damn clips I posted above, you'd see many more EXPERTS AND AUTHORITIES! WATCH THE FRICKING FILM! STOP MAKING EXCUSES! ALL THE EXPERTS AND INFO IS THERE! WATCH THE FILM!
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby Winston » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:30 am

globetrotter wrote:
Winston wrote:
globetrotter wrote:As others have posted it is an interior part from the engine. The first, smaller piece is likely an interior, intermediate pressure compressor blade such as pictured here:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/co ... 0265.shtml
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/co ... arison.jpg

Run the numbers for KE=1/2 mv^2 for a 757-223 at 237 m/s with a mass of 115, 000 kg.

(.5) * 115,000 * (237^2)

.5 * 115000 * 56169

= 3.23 Billion Joules

One billion joules is the minimum energy needed to melt one ton of steel, by the way.

Yes, MELT.


Those two links above suck. That aerospace site quotes anonymous pilots saying anonymous things! Anyone can do that! On the other hand, these are REAL pilots who have put their full name and photo behind their statements challenging the lies of 9/11:

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/91 ... 3jun06.htm

Anyone can claim anonymous pilots said this and that! What bull!


Winston, anyone can claim that they were a carrier deck firefighter and post a comment to YouTube. I don't know why you cannot grasp this.

As is typical of a Truther, what you post from an online source is 100.oo% true, but what I post from my online source is 100.oo% bull.
My source is nonsense but your quote from a YT comment thread is pure gold and from a professional, an expert or a scientist. (Look up Appeal to Authority).
If you cannot see the illogic of your stance, then I have no time to lead you to do so.

I have a life and have better things to do that instruct you about what ke means.

This interchange always happens with CT fanactics. It takes about 15 seconds to find a flaw, and then the Truther just denies the existence of said flaw.

That'snot Truth, that's Ideology.

Call it Religion, if you like.


PAY ATTENTION:

How is the anonymous youtube comment any different than the anonymous pilot quoted on your aerospace website?! HOW?!

Your websource had NO fully named pilots who signed their full name to stating that the Pentagon crash was easy!

If you wanna get serious, show me some expert pilots, FULLY NAMED and PICTURED, who have put their name to their statement.

I already gave you many FULLY NAMED PILOTS who said you're WRONG. See above.

Commander Ralph Kolstad
Captain Russ Wittenberg
Nila Sagadevan

Those are three examples of PROFESSIONAL PILOTS who say the pentagon crash is not possible.

One of them is a NAVY TOP GUN pilot! Does your experience match his? Does it match this:

Now retired, Commander Kolstad was a top-rated fighter pilot during his 20-year Navy career. Early in his career, he was accorded the honor of being selected to participate in the Navys Top Gun air combat school, officially known as the U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School. The Tom Cruise movie, Top Gun reflects the experience of the young Navy pilots at the school. Eleven years later, Commander Kolstad was further honored by being selected to become a Top Gun adversary instructor. While in the Navy, he flew F-4 Phantoms, A-4 Skyhawks, and F-14 Tomcats and completed 250 aircraft carrier landings.

Commander Kolstad had a second career after his 20 years of Navy active and reserve service and served as a commercial airline pilot for 27 years, flying for American Airlines and other domestic and international careers. He flew Boeing 727, 757 and 767, McDonnell Douglas MD-80, and Fokker F-100 airliners. He has flown a total of over 23,000 hours in his career.


Can you match that globetrotter? What do you have to match the above? Nothing?

Look what Commander Kolstad said:

Commander Ralph Kolstad, started questioning the official account of 9/11 within days of the event. It just didnt make any sense to me, he said. And now 6 years after 9/11 he says, When one starts using his own mind, and not what one was told, there is very little to believe in the official story.

NOW THAT IS A QUALIFIED EXPERT!
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby globetrotter » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:16 pm

Winston,

I am just not going to continue this conversation, I want to be your friend. I find such discussions unpleasant and unfruitful.

I do not want to discuss CT, 9-11 or Politics.
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Postby momopi » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:39 pm

Rock wrote:
momopi wrote:
My rates are $1200 per day. Same for any other client for work.



momopi, I see you have 1,328 posts on Winston's forum. If you spend an average of 5 minutes to research and produce each one, you've already put in 110 billable hours. So it looks like Winston owes your firm about $132,800. How much of that goes into your pocket?


He has yet to pay me $1.

I think it's just silly that people keep repeating the same junk with little to no marketing value. If 500 architects/engineers sign some petition isn't going to convince the public, the solution is not to waste your efforts to get another 500 or 700 architects/engineers to sign. The image of unattractive, old, balding nerds and creepy fringe conspiracy theory freaks doesn't help either.

If it was up to me, I'd have rounded up kids whos parents died in 9/11 and put them on TV with celebrity sponsors in 2004, preferably Aug to Oct time frame (after the controversial 9/11 commission report, but before the Nov 2004 Senate elections). Children carrying framed photos of their deceased parents with little ribbons, marching on to stage waving American flags and holding up a fireman's helmet. A bunch of nerds demanding a senator to take action on 9/11 isn't going to get anywhere, but a group of angelic looking children hitting up the said senator during election time in front of a TV crew, asking "will you please help these poor children find out what happened to their parents" to reopen another 9/11 investigation with better funding (a lot more than $15 million dollars), might have worked better. This would cost a couple million in funding to fly the kids and their guardians around, professional coaching, make up artists, publicists, media reps, etc.

And if I wanted people to support 9/11 investigation, I'd have used high-impact images like the one below for propaganda, and not some crappy pics of airplane engine parts with FUD questions like "does this look like blah blah" or "how could an aircraft fly at XXX mph XX feet off the ground when blah blah with blah credentials said that's impossible!"

Image


But, this is 2010, not 2004. I just don't care, and if someone else want to do mouth to mouth on a dead feline in the most inefficient and ineffective way, they're free to do so on their own dime.
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Postby Winston » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:03 pm

globetrotter wrote:Winston,

I am just not going to continue this conversation, I want to be your friend. I find such discussions unpleasant and unfruitful.

I do not want to discuss CT, 9-11 or Politics.


Ok but I won this one again. I showed you REAL experts, fully named, and their statements. You haven't shown me any real pilots except anonymous ones from a website. So I met your challenge but you didn't meet mine.

I will send those clips to Dano and see what he thinks, since you won't watch them cause they might ruin your paradigm :)
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby Winston » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:13 pm

momopi wrote:
Rock wrote:
momopi wrote:
My rates are $1200 per day. Same for any other client for work.



momopi, I see you have 1,328 posts on Winston's forum. If you spend an average of 5 minutes to research and produce each one, you've already put in 110 billable hours. So it looks like Winston owes your firm about $132,800. How much of that goes into your pocket?


He has yet to pay me $1.

I think it's just silly that people keep repeating the same junk with little to no marketing value. If 500 architects/engineers sign some petition isn't going to convince the public, the solution is not to waste your efforts to get another 500 or 700 architects/engineers to sign. The image of unattractive, old, balding nerds and creepy fringe conspiracy theory freaks doesn't help either.

If it was up to me, I'd have rounded up kids whos parents died in 9/11 and put them on TV with celebrity sponsors in 2004, preferably Aug to Oct time frame (after the controversial 9/11 commission report, but before the Nov 2004 Senate elections). Children carrying framed photos of their deceased parents with little ribbons, marching on to stage waving American flags and holding up a fireman's helmet. A bunch of nerds demanding a senator to take action on 9/11 isn't going to get anywhere, but a group of angelic looking children hitting up the said senator during election time in front of a TV crew, asking "will you please help these poor children find out what happened to their parents" to reopen another 9/11 investigation with better funding (a lot more than $15 million dollars), might have worked better. This would cost a couple million in funding to fly the kids and their guardians around, professional coaching, make up artists, publicists, media reps, etc.

And if I wanted people to support 9/11 investigation, I'd have used high-impact images like the one below for propaganda, and not some crappy pics of airplane engine parts with FUD questions like "does this look like blah blah" or "how could an aircraft fly at XXX mph XX feet off the ground when blah blah with blah credentials said that's impossible!"

Image


But, this is 2010, not 2004. I just don't care, and if someone else want to do mouth to mouth on a dead feline in the most inefficient and ineffective way, they're free to do so on their own dime.


LOL Momopi, what is the logic of paying you to answer simple questions. No one pays me to answer simple questions that only takes a few seconds. Why is your opinion worth more than other people's? Is your opinion on aviation worth more than that of a top gun pilot, which I quoted above? LOL

This isn't about profit. It's about truth and justice. Perhaps those things have no meaning to you. But they do to many people.

Even if I paid you, why would I presume that you'd be able to refute every argument in this thread and in those three clips above? LOL

Are you claiming you can refute them all with logic and VALID ARGUMENTS if I paid you $1200?

Your 1328 posts were not about conspiracies. They were mostly about news articles. So I don't see how that applies here. Rock, there is no accurate way to count Momopi's conspiracy posts out of the 1328. You forget that. Plus, in all of his posts about 9/11, HE DOES NOT EVEN ANSWER ONE QUESTION. So by those terms, I would owe him zero dollars! LOL. He did no research and did not answer any 9/11 questions, so his balance is Zero. :)

1000 architects and engineers will convince a lot of the public. The problem is that most of the public DOES NOT KNOW about AE911Truth and its film and site! You aren't making sense again. How do you know that the public is not convinced, when they don't even know about it cause the frickin mainstream media won't give it proper coverage?!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?! THINK MAN!

Again, you're making blunders. If you're this clumsy in your logic, how can you expect to charge $1200 a day!

That's what CEO's make!

You assume that the majority of the US public knows about AE911Truth and their 1000+ architects and engineers. Well they don't! BEEP! ERROR MOMOPI!

How can you bill on such clumsy mistakes?!

Your marketing strategies have all been tried. The problem is that the mainstream media doesn't want to cover it. They are afraid to touch it unless they can discredit it. Where have you been?!
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby Rock » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:27 am

Winston wrote:
LOL Momopi, what is the logic of paying you to answer simple questions. No one pays me to answer simple questions that only takes a few seconds. Why is your opinion worth more than other people's? Is your opinion on aviation worth more than that of a top gun pilot, which I quoted above? LOL

This isn't about profit. It's about truth and justice. Perhaps those things have no meaning to you. But they do to many people.

Even if I paid you, why would I presume that you'd be able to refute every argument in this thread and in those three clips above? LOL

Are you claiming you can refute them all with logic and VALID ARGUMENTS if I paid you $1200?

Your 1328 posts were not about conspiracies. They were mostly about news articles. So I don't see how that applies here. Rock, there is no accurate way to count Momopi's conspiracy posts out of the 1328. You forget that. Plus, in all of his posts about 9/11, HE DOES NOT EVEN ANSWER ONE QUESTION. So by those terms, I would owe him zero dollars! LOL. He did no research and did not answer any 9/11 questions, so his balance is Zero. :)

1000 architects and engineers will convince a lot of the public. The problem is that most of the public DOES NOT KNOW about AE911Truth and its film and site! You aren't making sense again. How do you know that the public is not convinced, when they don't even know about it cause the frickin mainstream media won't give it proper coverage?!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?! THINK MAN!

Again, you're making blunders. If you're this clumsy in your logic, how can you expect to charge $1200 a day!

That's what CEO's make!

You assume that the majority of the US public knows about AE911Truth and their 1000+ architects and engineers. Well they don't! BEEP! ERROR MOMOPI!

How can you bill on such clumsy mistakes?!

Your marketing strategies have all been tried. The problem is that the mainstream media doesn't want to cover it. They are afraid to touch it unless they can discredit it. Where have you been?!



Winston

1. I don't think he charges only for conspiracy theories. He'll be happy to take your money for all posts.

2. American CEOs make a lot more than $1,200 a day. Try an average of over $3,000 per hour (S&P500 company) @60 hours per week / 52 weeks per year.

3. On this forum, you have portrayed yourself as an out of the box, open minded, free thinking, big picture man. Yet several of your posts as of late seem to contradict this identity. Nobody has conclusively proven to the public that 9-11 conspiracy theories are true or false yet. I mean, why are they still referred to as theories? Yet you have made-up your mind 100% and are no longer willing to consider the possibility that they are false. There is very little in life that we know for certain. I once believed the earth was perfectly spherical. But much later, I discovered that perhaps its not.

4. My friend, please, bid farewell to baba and mama, get out of Chiayi and leave Taiwan. You need to get laid and fast! Go back to Phils, get re-acquainted with your young girlfriend. Take her on a mini-vacation to some resort and make-up for lost time. Put 9-11 and conspiracy theories on the back burner. I mean, didn't we come abroad for something better than life behind a keyboard???

Keep an open mind and continue learning. Otherwise, you may become the victim of ideology. From the top-down view, most of us have virtually no control over the powers that be, their actions, or the consequences. If your hobby is to seek truth, understand that it may be relative. Its debatable as to whether or not there is objective reality. If you travel and experience enough, this last point really hits home. So if some others disagree with your point of view, take it easy. Its nothing worth getting emotional about. Perhaps you are on the "Truman Show". So just relax and enjoy the ride. It will slow down and end before you know it.
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Postby momopi » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:58 pm

Winston wrote:Even if I paid you, why would I presume that you'd be able to refute every argument in this thread and in those three clips above? LOL
Are you claiming you can refute them all with logic and VALID ARGUMENTS if I paid you $1200?
<snip>
1000 architects and engineers will convince a lot of the public. The problem is that most of the public DOES NOT KNOW about AE911Truth and its film and site! You aren't making sense again. How do you know that the public is not convinced, when they don't even know about it cause the frickin mainstream media won't give it proper coverage?!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?! THINK MAN!


If someone paid me as a consultant, I'd draft an action plan and put a group of marketing consultants, publicists, and other specialists together. Assuming that better mainstream media coverage is the initial desired goal, time and money would not be wasted on getting another xxx architects and engineers to sign some petition. I wouldn't waste time to refute arguments on-line, because it has no value. You're not a person of any significance in attracting media coverage.

My company charge clients $1200 per day (plus expenses) for my services, because I fix problems and make things happen (MRO software/hardware implementation). I get a cut of that $1200 on top of my pay and bonus. You don't get paid by doing this:

Image

And you sure ain't gonna get anything done by just blabbing endlessly. It's your choice, if you want actual accomplishments, you need to get off your butt. If you're too lazy or simply have no interest in doing so, then stop wasting my time.
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Postby Winston » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:45 pm

momopi wrote:
Winston wrote:Even if I paid you, why would I presume that you'd be able to refute every argument in this thread and in those three clips above? LOL
Are you claiming you can refute them all with logic and VALID ARGUMENTS if I paid you $1200?
<snip>
1000 architects and engineers will convince a lot of the public. The problem is that most of the public DOES NOT KNOW about AE911Truth and its film and site! You aren't making sense again. How do you know that the public is not convinced, when they don't even know about it cause the frickin mainstream media won't give it proper coverage?!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?! THINK MAN!


If someone paid me as a consultant, I'd draft an action plan and put a group of marketing consultants, publicists, and other specialists together. Assuming that better mainstream media coverage is the initial desired goal, time and money would not be wasted on getting another xxx architects and engineers to sign some petition. I wouldn't waste time to refute arguments on-line, because it has no value. You're not a person of any significance in attracting media coverage.

My company charge clients $1200 per day (plus expenses) for my services, because I fix problems and make things happen (MRO software/hardware implementation). I get a cut of that $1200 on top of my pay and bonus. You don't get paid by doing this:

Image

And you sure ain't gonna get anything done by just blabbing endlessly. It's your choice, if you want actual accomplishments, you need to get off your butt. If you're too lazy or simply have no interest in doing so, then stop wasting my time.


How would YOU obtain the desired goal of getting mainstream media coverage then? What would you do to force their coverage exactly? That's the BIG QUESTION.

Now that you can't win on the arguments, you're resorting to the "you're wasting your time, this isn't accomplishing anything" line to try to discredit this whole topic. I've already addressed that argument, and don't need to do it again.

I told you, conspiracies are entertainment for me, just like American Idol is for millions of Americans.

Most things are easier said than done.

The truth movement has done all it can. They go out marching on the streets, hand out flyers, get on some media (like Russia Today), start websites, held conferences, etc.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby Winston » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:57 pm

Rock wrote:Winston

1. I don't think he charges only for conspiracy theories. He'll be happy to take your money for all posts.

2. American CEOs make a lot more than $1,200 a day. Try an average of over $3,000 per hour (S&P500 company) @60 hours per week / 52 weeks per year.

3. On this forum, you have portrayed yourself as an out of the box, open minded, free thinking, big picture man. Yet several of your posts as of late seem to contradict this identity. Nobody has conclusively proven to the public that 9-11 conspiracy theories are true or false yet. I mean, why are they still referred to as theories? Yet you have made-up your mind 100% and are no longer willing to consider the possibility that they are false. There is very little in life that we know for certain. I once believed the earth was perfectly spherical. But much later, I discovered that perhaps its not.

4. My friend, please, bid farewell to baba and mama, get out of Chiayi and leave Taiwan. You need to get laid and fast! Go back to Phils, get re-acquainted with your young girlfriend. Take her on a mini-vacation to some resort and make-up for lost time. Put 9-11 and conspiracy theories on the back burner. I mean, didn't we come abroad for something better than life behind a keyboard???

Keep an open mind and continue learning. Otherwise, you may become the victim of ideology. From the top-down view, most of us have virtually no control over the powers that be, their actions, or the consequences. If your hobby is to seek truth, understand that it may be relative. Its debatable as to whether or not there is objective reality. If you travel and experience enough, this last point really hits home. So if some others disagree with your point of view, take it easy. Its nothing worth getting emotional about. Perhaps you are on the "Truman Show". So just relax and enjoy the ride. It will slow down and end before you know it.


1. He said he only wants to charge me if I try to force him to post about topics that he's not interested in. Not for all posts.

2. It depends on the corporation.

3. How have my posts contradicted my identity of being freethinking and out of the box and open minded? I go by evidence. I do not dismiss anything or embrace anything without reason or evidence. How is that being closed minded or subjective? I don't follow you.

They are referred to as theories by people who don't believe in them and want to discredit them. The 9/11 Truth movement does not call them "theories". You are new to all this, as you said, so perhaps you don't realize that. You've got a lot to learn about this subject.

There are theories, and there are conclusions based on evidence, and there is in between. A lot of the evidence for 9/11 has passed the theory stage. But if you deny them and ridicule them, you will refer to them as theories.

I do not refer to them as theories. And the leaders of the 9/11 Truth movement do not either.

I also think it's fun watching a super smart person like Momopi trying to defend the indefensible, or deny the impossible when it comes to this area.

I have NOT made up my mind 100 percent. That is a MISINTERPRETATION on your part. I am presenting the evidence. But no one has refuted them, not even Momopi. Instead, he resorts to ridicule and humor. Nothing I've said has been debunked. I have not made up my mind. But the evidence does show that there is a cover up of some sort. If you watched the three clips that I told you about, which Dano just did, you'd agree for sure.

It's a hypothesis based on the EVIDENCE. I have not made up my mind or closed it to new evidence. Why do you say that? Momopi has not presented ANY evidence to the contrary. You've seen that here right? So why do you make this statement that is not supported?

I'm not the one who has stopped learning. To me, truth is also entertainment. It's not as disturbing to me as it is to you.

Some truth is relative, but others are more objective.

4. Sex is just tension and release. It also gets addicting too, and expensive sometimes. There is no happily ever after. When I return to the PH, I will be complaining about other things as well.

I am trying to get back, but the time is just zooming by each day when you're in a rut and a place you don't fit in at all that's draining you too.

I wish I could be one of those hippies who claims to fit in everywhere.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby Winston » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:50 pm

Rock,
I think you lost the plot. This was NOT about Momopi giving me good solid evidence and me being closed minded to it. This was about ME giving Momopi tons of good evidence and compelling points to consider, and HIM not dealing with it, but ridiculing it instead. Do you see the difference in that? If so, how did you get it all BACKWARD and claim that I'm the one that's closed to any evidence, when he is the one who won't even discuss the evidence??? Huh? What the??? (scratching head)

That doesn't make sense. Illogical.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby momopi » Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:44 pm

Winston wrote:How would YOU obtain the desired goal of getting mainstream media coverage then? What would you do to force their coverage exactly? That's the BIG QUESTION.


1. Hire a professional team of marketing specialists and publicsts.

2. http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/vie ... ght=#24012

3. You don't "force" media coverage, in the same way that you don't force people to join your bandwagon, or force people to like you.



Winston wrote:Now that you can't win on the arguments, you're resorting to the "you're wasting your time, this isn't accomplishing anything" line to try to discredit this whole topic. I've already addressed that argument, and don't need to do it again.


Feel free to continue down this path, and you'd never reach your desired goal. If your purpose is to convince/influence people, you don't get to blame others, or "the system" for your own failure & lack of charisma. Success will define your ability, and the lack of success, denotes your lack of ability.


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Postby Rock » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:00 am

Winston wrote:
1. He said he only wants to charge me if I try to force him to post about topics that he's not interested in. Not for all posts.

2. It depends on the corporation.

3. How have my posts contradicted my identity of being freethinking and out of the box and open minded? I go by evidence. I do not dismiss anything or embrace anything without reason or evidence. How is that being closed minded or subjective? I don't follow you.

They are referred to as theories by people who don't believe in them and want to discredit them. The 9/11 Truth movement does not call them "theories". You are new to all this, as you said, so perhaps you don't realize that. You've got a lot to learn about this subject.

There are theories, and there are conclusions based on evidence, and there is in between. A lot of the evidence for 9/11 has passed the theory stage. But if you deny them and ridicule them, you will refer to them as theories.

I do not refer to them as theories. And the leaders of the 9/11 Truth movement do not either.

I also think it's fun watching a super smart person like Momopi trying to defend the indefensible, or deny the impossible when it comes to this area.

I have NOT made up my mind 100 percent. That is a MISINTERPRETATION on your part. I am presenting the evidence. But no one has refuted them, not even Momopi. Instead, he resorts to ridicule and humor. Nothing I've said has been debunked. I have not made up my mind. But the evidence does show that there is a cover up of some sort. If you watched the three clips that I told you about, which Dano just did, you'd agree for sure.

It's a hypothesis based on the EVIDENCE. I have not made up my mind or closed it to new evidence. Why do you say that? Momopi has not presented ANY evidence to the contrary. You've seen that here right? So why do you make this statement that is not supported?

I'm not the one who has stopped learning. To me, truth is also entertainment. It's not as disturbing to me as it is to you.

Some truth is relative, but others are more objective.

4. Sex is just tension and release. It also gets addicting too, and expensive sometimes. There is no happily ever after. When I return to the PH, I will be complaining about other things as well.

I am trying to get back, but the time is just zooming by each day when you're in a rut and a place you don't fit in at all that's draining you too.

I wish I could be one of those hippies who claims to fit in everywhere.



1. Got it.

2. Under US$400K per annum is abnormally low CEO total comp unless the firm is quite small.

3. You get caught up in the hype of the movement. You get upset when others don't see these things from your point of view. Experts can disagree 100% with each other. You might find 500 experts who say A is impossible and another 500 who say A is possible and a third set of 500 who say they are not sure. And sometimes, even if most of the experts form some sort of consensus about something, they can all be wrong. For many decades, the medical community and almost all urology researchers and doctors believed that testosterone therapy could lead to prostate cancer. It took a tiny group of non-conformists to convince establishment to throw out this conventional wisdom. Today, its common to administer testoserone theory to men with prostate cancer. Is it risky? Who knows? Maybe someday, the establishment will find out they were wrong again.

I admit that I have not researched the "Truth Movement" and related ideas the way you have. For me to be strongly convinced and support one side, I would probably need to invest at least several 100 hours of due dillegence and other types of checking. I am not sufficiently interested in the issue to spend that amount of time. So I am willing to remain uncertain. As I've said before, I certainly would not be surprised if it there was some sort of government or big business cover-up. Heck, some people even put ultimate blame with the Zionist movement or UFOs.

You say its entertainment for you and if so, that's cool. Whatever floats your boat. But when other people's disbelief upsets you to the point of attacking them or writing them off, that indicates you are emotionally invested in the movement, similar to a blind follower of some religion or ideology. You say 500 experts say flying a plane into a building is impossible. Someone else says, he knows another 600 experts who say it is possible. Then you say, but those experts are not as good as my experts. And it goes on and on. All your evidence is based on what others tell you and show you. Perhaps a plane was flown into a buidling at landing speed instead of 500 mph. Wouldn't that do damage too? Anyway, why care what others think? What is your incentive to bring others on board with the movement? Will it change the past? Will it benefit you? Will it change the corrupt nature of national governments and corporate interests? The rich and powerful will generally continue to exploit others. Deception and lies is just part of the process. Most citizens in third world countries accept this reality as their fate. Americans tend to be a lot more naive.

4. I always thought women were the key motivation behind the "Happier Abroad" movement, not conspiracy theories or UFOs. That's why I made the friendly suggestion that you get back to your girlfriend; if not for the sex than at least for the pleasurable companionship. You once posted that based on my accounts, courting Taiwanese girls takes too much time and effort. Personally, I find that whole process much more meaningful and worthwhile than painstakingly researching 9/11. With the girl, I can enjoy some great times and enrich my life. But with the 9/11, if I find out its a big hoax, I can't change a thing. I just loose weeks and months following the drama unfold on Internet and TV. Might as well just watch soap operas, spectator sports, or a spy thriller movie.
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Postby momopi » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:36 pm

Rock wrote:3. You get caught up in the hype of the movement. You get upset when others don't see these things from your point of view. Experts can disagree 100% with each other. You might find 500 experts who say A is impossible and another 500 who say A is possible and a third set of 500 who say they are not sure. And sometimes, even if most of the experts form some sort of consensus about something, they can all be wrong. For many decades, the medical community and almost all urology researchers and doctors believed that testosterone therapy could lead to prostate cancer. It took a tiny group of non-conformists to convince establishment to throw out this conventional wisdom. Today, its common to administer testoserone theory to men with prostate cancer. Is it risky? Who knows? Maybe someday, the establishment will find out they were wrong again.


As I've tried to explain to him, argumentum ad numerum ("XXX scientists can't be wrong!") is genetic fallacy and not logic. It's useful for marketing purposes, but easily over-used. From marketing stand-point, it really doesn't matter if you got 500 or 1,000 engineers to sign a petition, because 500 is just as good (or worthless) as 1,000. The effort spent on obtaining the additional 500 signatures is inritus irritus (in vain, useless, ineffectual), and whoever devised such strategy is unfit to lead.

"9/11 Truth" advocates get frustrated when they rant about "What the Government and Media is not telling you about 9/11" and don't get the expected results. They don't stop and think their material screams "conspiracy fruitcake" to the mainstream. Instead, they just get emotional and blame everyone else for their own failure. IMO the whole movement is self-defeating, because they can't pull their heads out of their butts to formulate/accept new strategies. Instead, they just want to keep bashing their heads against a brick wall, then bitch and moan for the sake of bitching and moaning. Fine by me -- let them do as they wish. ;p
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