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Punishment and reward in religion

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Punishment and reward in religion

Postby Cornfed » Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:03 am

It seems that one of the things that a successful religion needs is a system of punishment and reward. The Old Testament promises a successful genetic line for those who do the right thing. I don’t know whether this is enough. The Heaven for goodies and Hell for baddies in most sects of Christianity is an obvious one, but the idea that if you don’t live up to sometimes unrealistic standards you are going to be damned for all time is repellent to most people, so it gets watered down with concepts like Purgatory and people find ways to weasel out of it. The Calvinist/Presbyterian idea of predestination worked well at first, as people struggled to be good to convinced themselves they were part of the elect, but ultimately it lacks credibility due to the obvious unfairness of God punishing people for a nature he had decided to give them eons before they were born that they could do nothing about. Probably the Buddhist idea of good and bad karma that gets used up, allowing you to fall and rise in states is the best idea, but I don’t know of any Western religions that have this.
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Re: Punishment and reward in religion

Postby Adama » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:57 am

Cornfed wrote:It seems that one of the things that a successful religion needs is a system of punishment and reward. The Old Testament promises a successful genetic line for those who do the right thing. I don’t know whether this is enough. The Heaven for goodies and Hell for baddies in most sects of Christianity is an obvious one, but the idea that if you don’t live up to sometimes unrealistic standards you are going to be damned for all time is repellent to most people, so it gets watered down with concepts like Purgatory and people find ways to weasel out of it. The Calvinist/Presbyterian idea of predestination worked well at first, as people struggled to be good to convinced themselves they were part of the elect, but ultimately it lacks credibility due to the obvious unfairness of God punishing people for a nature he had decided to give them eons before they were born that they could do nothing about. Probably the Buddhist idea of good and bad karma that gets used up, allowing you to fall and rise in states is the best idea, but I don’t know of any Western religions that have this.



Everyone believes that getting to heaven is a matter of abstaining from bad deeds or only doing good works, but every Satanic religion is based upon works for salvation. Buddhism for example is one of these. The ancient Sanskrit for KARMA means work. It is a work salvation.

The point is that salvation and entry into heaven is the free gift for everyone who believes in Jesus by faith alone. Christ did the work for us to get into heaven, that is, He lived a sinless life and died for all sins of the whole world. Believing in Him means He imparts His righteousness unto the believer, which means they receive the free gift of everlasting life for simply believing in Him.

All false religions are about work salvation. But there was and is only one person who can WORK their way into heaven, and that is the only sinless God, Jesus Christ. Saying a person must abstain from sin or do good to go to heaven is equating that person's work with the work which Christ has done, denying the Lord His glory, which means no gift will be extended to them, and therefore no salvation.
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Re: Punishment and reward in religion

Postby Cornfed » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:15 am

Adama wrote:The point is that salvation and entry into heaven is the free gift for everyone who believes in Jesus by faith alone.

Yeah well as a practical matter this is no good for controlling behavior and building communities. It is also contradicted in the New Testament by James and even to some extent by Paul.
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Re: Punishment and reward in religion

Postby Adama » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:47 am

Cornfed wrote:
Adama wrote:The point is that salvation and entry into heaven is the free gift for everyone who believes in Jesus by faith alone.

Yeah well as a practical matter this is no good for controlling behavior and building communities. It is also contradicted in the New Testament by James and even to some extent by Paul.


Tradition is the best way to get reprobates to behave like human beings. The problem is that it has been torn down. Also, some kind of penal system.

Even every place the New Testament says salvation is by faith alone, especially by Paul! James chapter two was not even about salvation from eternal death. It is about faith being dead because they're not doing any good deeds to go along with it. It doesnt benefit other men (the brothers who are suffering and in need actually need help and not just faithful words of encouragement). Just like when the body without the soul is dead, faith without good works is dead. But what you forget is, the body is still there, just as faith is still there, and faith is all that is required whether the works are there or not.
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Re: Punishment and reward in religion

Postby Cornfed » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:56 am

Adama wrote:Tradition is the best way to get reprobates to behave like human beings. The problem is that it has been torn down. Also, some kind of penal system.

It seems to help if there is some kind of religious foundation to those things.
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Re: Punishment and reward in religion

Postby Adama » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:14 pm

Cornfed wrote:
Adama wrote:Tradition is the best way to get reprobates to behave like human beings. The problem is that it has been torn down. Also, some kind of penal system.

It seems to help if there is some kind of religious foundation to those things.


Read this part here:
Cornfed wrote:The Heaven for goodies and Hell for baddies in most sects of Christianity is an obvious one, but the idea that if you don’t live up to sometimes unrealistic standards you are going to be damned for all time is repellent to most people, so it gets watered down with concepts like Purgatory and people find ways to weasel out of it.


These people are destitute of higher spiritual life. They are ignorant of God. There is no amount of warning that will cause them to turn back. God didn't fail them though. They failed themselves when they refused to believe or chose to become overcome by wickedness.
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