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Why does God allow evil, suffering, injustice to exist, and bad things to happen to good people?

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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Winston
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Re:

Post by Winston » September 4th, 2018, 3:39 am

momopi wrote:
April 21st, 2011, 9:49 am
Good vs. Evil is based on religious moral values created by man, and varies from religion to religion. Think outside of christian-centric view on god and morality. i.e. If you belonged to a head-hunting tribe in the past, you might think that hunting heads is a good thing.

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Question for you @momopi.

Suppose I broke into your house and stole all your valuables. Would you consider that to be morally wrong? Objectively morally wrong? Why or why not?

What if I not only stole your stuff, but I raped your wife too, and killed your kids? Would you exclaim that that was morally wrong, or that there's no such thing as objective morality? Would such an act be relative or subjective only, or would it be objectively wrong?

What do you think? And why?

You should read the famous book "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis, Christian author and philosopher, who also wrote the Narnia Chronicles. It is hailed and recommended by Christians as being a great philosophical masterpiece that is easy to understand for the average layman. It makes many good points like the above, and also explains why we all have an innate sense of morality and conscience that we are born with. Hence morality is natural and objective, and given to us by our creator. I don't agree with everything he says, but he has some good valid points. Atheists should read it and consider it. There are many free copies of it online.
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Winston
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Re:

Post by Winston » September 4th, 2018, 5:38 am

keius wrote:
April 21st, 2011, 11:05 am
Why can't we accept that the concept of God is a human fabrication?

As such, God is just a reflection of us. We were not made in his image. He was made in ours. That makes God, an imperfect human with all the same shortcomings...which is why he seems like such a dick in the Bible. It's just so friggin obvious. There's simply nothing to debunk. BS is BS.
Even if God was made in our image or imagination, the problem with that is obvious:

1. Atheism provides NO ANSWERS to any big questions about the mysteries of the universe or the creation of it, or our place in it. All it offers is DENIAL. Hence it has no value and is the WEAKEST of all the paradigms.

2. Atheists tend to be DISHONEST. If you ask an atheist why he believes there's no God, he will say "Because there's no proof." But then when you show him proof from the intelligent design argument, complex organized structure of life and cells and DNA, the anthropic principle and fine tuning of the universe argument, the watchmaker argument, etc. he will deny them using whatever excuse he can find. Then when you dig deeper and push them to find out their true motivations, you find that the Atheist will ADMIT that he: a) hates and despises God and finds the concept of one to be repugnant, 2) does not want to be accountable to any higher power or have any deity watching him all the time, 3) blames God for something bad that happened in his life and holds a grudge against him for it, etc.

So when you put their back against the wall and confront them with the question "Do you want there to be a God?" they will admit that they do not and find the concept repugnant. They will admit their BIASES and HATRED for God and religion as their real motivation. Thus they have strong EMOTIONAL reasons and biases for being an Atheist, that are not grounded in some form of neutral objective Spockian logic after all. In short, they are heavily biased and emotional, not neutral or objective at all, and will admit it if you dig deeper into their motives. However, they will not admit that at first, and instead pretend that it's all about the evidence and proof and logic, which is a LIE and DECEPTION, because those aren't the real reasons. Hence in that sense, they are DECEPTIVE about their motives and try to hide them.

3. The Atheist paradigm does NOT ACCOUNT for many things in reality and a wide variety of evidence and phenomena. Their model of reality - of a Godless universe with no spiritual or metaphysical dimension - does not take into account a wide plethora of data and phenomena that do not fit into it. Some examples:

- It cannot explain how consciousness came about or evolved, nor how the sudden onset of human intelligence is possible, without some type of creator or intervention in our evolution. That is a big mystery that has always baffled science and neurologists. They want to find an atheistic naturalistic explanation that doesn't involve God or a Creator of course, but they can never find one.

- It cannot explain the complex, organized, elaborate and highly structured DESIGN inherent in all biological life - organisms, cells, bacteria, DNA, etc. The level of sophistication of which is far beyond anything that humans can create or design. In fact, Bill Gates said that the code in human DNA is far beyond anything that Microsoft can produce. And Francis Cricke, one of the discoverers of DNA, said that there's no way DNA could have evolved naturally on Earth, so it must have come from elsewhere, beyond our world. Also, our DNA and cells, contain ERROR CORRECTING CODES, which only exist in computer programs written by programmers, as we all know. Thus they can only be explained by intelligent design. Not by evolution or Darwinian mechanisms. Atheism also cannot explain where the first living cell capable of reproducing came from, aka abiogenesis.

- It cannot explain a whole host of paranormal phenomena, such as ghosts, hauntings, poltergeists, ESP, telepathy, psychics, etc, all of which are well documented and proven by science in controlled double blind studies and experiments, as well as firsthand accounts from countless people and testimonies from credible sources.

- It cannot explain how psychics, mediums and astrologers can score hits that are way above chance, or get specific hits that cannot be obtained from cold reading or guessing. Hits that are highly specific and personal, not general or that can apply to anyone (as pseudoskeptics James Randi and Michael Shermer FALSELY and WRONGLY claimed). Nor can they explain other phenomena that chance and probability statistics cannot account for.

- It cannot explain the many compelling cases of reincarnation and past lives - which both Christians and Atheists cannot explain away and are a thorn in their side. Such as the documented cases studied and published by Dr. Ian Stevenson and others, of past lives which cannot be explained by any other hypothesis other than reincarnation. There are many documented cases, including recent ones that went viral, such as the case of James Linberg and Jenny Cockell, which were featured on the mainstream news as well and astounded the public. No skeptic, Atheist or dogmatic Christian, has ever been able to explain such cases away. So they have been a thorn in their side since they do not fit into their narrow paradigm.

- It cannot explain why those who have a Near Death Experience (NDE) are able to have full blown experiences during an EEG flatline of their brain, such as in the case of Pam Reynolds, which should be neurologically impossible. Or how NDErs are able to view things while out of body that they could not possibly see, and later verify to be accurate. In fact, many elements of the NDE cannot be explained by the Atheistic model of a brain being deprived by oxygen.

- It cannot explain the countless cases of miracles and answered prayers, which there are so many authentic stories of and cannot be explained by coincidence or luck. Sure atheists can deny them, but that doesn't make them untrue. The stories are very uplifting, inspiring and yes true and well documented. Just because they don't fit into your model of reality, or you cannot explain them, doesn't mean they are untrue. Even I have examples of miracles and answered prayers in my life that are meaningful and significant and cannot be attributed to chance or coincidence.

4. The Atheist paradigm is self-defeating and contradictory. Atheists claim for example that the God of the Old Testament committed a lot of atrocities and killed a lot of people, which is immoral and evil. But in order to claim some sort of objective morality they need to have a God or all powerful authority to create such standards. Otherwise there is no true evil or immorality and everything is relative and a matter of one opinion vs another. There would be no good or bad. Hitler and Mother Theresa would be on the same moral footing. So would a saint and a mass murderer. Etc. The Christian Evangelist author Dr. Frank Turek makes this point and others in his book "Stealing From God: Why Atheists Need God to Make Their Case".

Also its presumptuous for Atheists to admit that they dont know how the universe and life began, but somehow they just KNOW that it cant be God, they just know that God is never an option because they've already decided that God is unnecessary and doesn't exist. So they've already ruled him out a priori. This reflects their bias and prejudice of course. Not objectivity. They've already made up their mind and are not open to information that contradicts it, no matter how valid. That's not the hallmark of an honest truth seeker.

So you see, the Atheist paradigm and model of reality has too many problems, flaws and shortcomings for us to adopt. The Atheistic paradigm provides NO answers to any big questions, is DISHONEST about its motives, and does NOT take into account a whole plethora of evidence and data that do NOT fit into its model of reality. In addition, it provides no hope, no meaning of life, no purpose to life, no positive message, no consolation or emotional solace, no inspiration, no answers to life's mysteries, no guidance, does not uplift or help people in any way, does not save lives or prevent suicide, etc. Nothing.

Hence it has NO VALUE and is the WEAKEST of all paradigms you can choose from. Even the Christian paradigm is better, despite its narrow mindedness. At least the Christian faith and gospel has helped people, given people hope and meaning, changed people for the better, uplifted people, and prevented a fair number of suicides (testimonials of which are abundant), an even reformed convicts in prison and ex-mafia members (e.g. Michael Franzese, ex mob boss turned Christian). Atheism has done NONE of that, and is hence the weakest, the most dismal and most valueless paradigm that offers nothing and has no value. All it offers is hatred and denial.
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Join my Ukrainian/Russian Women Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne

momopi
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Re: Re:

Post by momopi » September 4th, 2018, 9:23 am

Winston wrote:
September 4th, 2018, 3:39 am
Question for you @momopi.

Suppose I broke into your house and stole all your valuables. Would you consider that to be morally wrong? Objectively morally wrong? Why or why not?

What if I not only stole your stuff, but I raped your wife too, and killed your kids? Would you exclaim that that was morally wrong, or that there's no such thing as objective morality? Would such an act be relative or subjective only, or would it be objectively wrong?

What do you think? And why?

You should read the famous book "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis, Christian author and philosopher, who also wrote the Narnia Chronicles. It is hailed and recommended by Christians as being a great philosophical masterpiece that is easy to understand for the average layman. It makes many good points like the above, and also explains why we all have an innate sense of morality and conscience that we are born with. Hence morality is natural and objective, and given to us by our creator. I don't agree with everything he says, but he has some good valid points. Atheists should read it and consider it. There are many free copies of it online.
I will consider writing a reply after you reach Europe.

TheLight954
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Re: Why does God allow evil, suffering, injustice to exist, and bad things to happen to good people?

Post by TheLight954 » September 5th, 2018, 5:00 am

The explanation by NDE people is that life is a test of our free will.

You see, you would be infinitely benevolent if you had everything. Just think about it. There would be no temptations whatsoever. As such, it's so easy to possess infinite and unconditional love. What you do has zero reflection on the love of your soul.

However, with physical limits and problems, the soul is tested, for obvious reasons, and is allowed to evolve.

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