Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Thurs nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts with FREE Prizes!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE Live AFA Seminar! See locations and details.


Scam free! Check out Christian Filipina - Meet Asian women with Christian values! Members screened.
Exclusive book offer! 75% off! How to Meet, Date and Marry Your Filipina Wife



View Active Topics       Latest 100 Topics       View Your Posts       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


How do agnostics/atheists form their philosophical beliefs?

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

How do agnostics/atheists form their philosophical beliefs?

Postby zacb » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:27 pm

I have been a Christian almost my entire life, and so obviously most of my decisions have some influence from my faith. But I was wondering how atheist/agnostics form their opinion as far as philosophy and morals fo . (Not to generalize , but I guess what is common among them) Generally speaking, is it more consequential or more denotological ? I am just kind of curious.
zacb
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:33 am
Location: Michigan







Postby Winston » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:58 pm

It's simple: No evidence for God = No reason to believe in him.

That's the short version of it. You can research their sites and articles for an indepth explanation. There are many humanist sites as well that get philosophical about this.

One that I know is:
http://www.secularweb.org
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23601
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Postby zacb » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:06 pm

But I guess what I am asking is that while most religious people believe denotologically (or out of duty) in morality (morality is the key, not whether not there is a God/gods), do most atheist believe in their version of morality based upon a relative standard/ denotological standard, or based upon an absolute standard/consequential (consequentialism)? I am not asking why you do or don't believe in God/gods. All I am asking is what standards do you base your decisions on? Is it on the consequences? Or upon a duty to someone or something? Or am I missing the point?
The Daily Agorist, Learn to Live Independent of the System! http://www.theagoristreview.blogspot.com
zacb
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:33 am
Location: Michigan

Postby Winston » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:09 pm

Atheists usually claim that there is no objective morality. They believe that society needs basic morals for everyone to get along and to stop crime. As long as you respect others, protect life and rights, and don't do bad things, it's enough. They believe that people should be basically moral without the need for a religion to base it on.

Does that answer your question?
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 23601
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Postby zacb » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:30 pm

But I guess for instance why shouldn't I kill someone? The consequences, or a duty of some sorts to my fellow human beings or something similar? So is it some innate desire not to kill someone (regardless of where it came from), an ulterior motive, or a duty to your fellow humans?
zacb
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:33 am
Location: Michigan

Postby zacb » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:47 pm

I guess what ultimately determines the "7 deadly sins" if you will?
The Daily Agorist, Learn to Live Independent of the System! http://www.theagoristreview.blogspot.com
zacb
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:33 am
Location: Michigan

Postby fschmidt » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:19 pm

zacb, first you have to distinguish between atheists and non-theists. Atheists are religion-hating intolerant jerks, while non-theists simply don't believe in God. I discuss this in detail in Atheism. Atheists are immoral but non-theists may be moral. Buddhists and Confucianists are examples of moral non-theists. There are a few non-theistic sources of morality. One is to simply have faith in the way/morality of some moral system. Another is to develop one's own internal moral sense. Morality is an emotion which can be developed.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
fschmidt
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2118
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 8:16 am
Location: El Paso, TX

Postby zacb » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:28 pm

So I guess are non-theist/atheist or whatever name you want to put on it, believe just by faith in a similar way that Christians, Hindi, Jews, Muslims or any other person believes? I guess to me shouldn't beliefs (morals) be based upon logic instead of faith alone or should it be just because it is?
The Daily Agorist, Learn to Live Independent of the System! http://www.theagoristreview.blogspot.com
zacb
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:33 am
Location: Michigan

Postby zacb » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:50 pm

I guess what makes killing a defacto standard , and not just a relative whim someone believes is wrong?
The Daily Agorist, Learn to Live Independent of the System! http://www.theagoristreview.blogspot.com
zacb
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:33 am
Location: Michigan

Postby zacb » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:57 pm

So is morality ultimately based on consequence ?
The Daily Agorist, Learn to Live Independent of the System! http://www.theagoristreview.blogspot.com
zacb
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:33 am
Location: Michigan

Postby The_Hero_of_Men » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:02 pm

fschmidt wrote:zacb, first you have to distinguish between atheists and non-theists. Atheists are religion-hating intolerant jerks, while non-theists simply don't believe in God. I discuss this in detail in Atheism. Atheists are immoral but non-theists may be moral. Buddhists and Confucianists are examples of moral non-theists. There are a few non-theistic sources of morality. One is to simply have faith in the way/morality of some moral system. Another is to develop one's own internal moral sense. Morality is an emotion which can be developed.


Some might be like that, but for the most part, you're WRONG. I know plenty of atheists here in San Antonio, and they are good, honest, moral people-- in some cases, even more so than a lot of "Christians". Would you like it if someone came on this board and said that "all religious people (especially those Christians) are crazy wack-jobs and weaklings"? If not, then how is it okay to say that all atheists are immoral, religion-hating jerks? That would be like saying that all Muslims are terrorists/extremists (only a small minority are), or like saying that all Christians are "door-to-door" proselytizers (once again, only a few are). Granted, some atheists ARE religion-intolerant, but those are the MILITANT atheists. Most atheists are people who are just trying to live their lives. Religion (especially Christianity) does not have a monopoly on human morality.
Wielding the blade of evil's bane, he sealed the dark one away and gave the land light. This man, who traveled through time to save the land, was known as the Hero of Men. The man's tale was passed down through generations until it became legend...
The_Hero_of_Men
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:22 pm
Location: The Surface (Hyrule)

Postby fschmidt » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:14 pm

zacb wrote:So I guess are non-theist/atheist or whatever name you want to put on it, believe just by faith in a similar way that Christians, Hindi, Jews, Muslims or any other person believes? I guess to me shouldn't beliefs (morals) be based upon logic instead of faith alone or should it be just because it is?

We can't communicate if we don't use words clearly. Non-theist does not equal atheist. Beliefs do not equal morals.

Atheists have faith in immorality. Atheists don't use logic to arrive at morals, rather they let their base instincts lead them to immorality and then use logic to rationalize this.

Buddhists choose to follow the path that Buddha laid out. Such choices are usually the result of a combination of the thought and emotion. Once the choice has been made, there tends to be an element of faith that Buddha's path is the right one. Buddhism is not based on belief but rather on living and thinking in a certain way which includes morality. I am not as familiar with Confucianism, but I think the story is similar there.

Morals, or virtually anything else, cannot be based on logic alone. Logic allows you to start with assumptions and derive conclusions. But there must be something to start with. In the case of morality, this is an emotion that is built into our brains which can be developed. Morality is developed by considering situations and looking inside oneself to see how one feels about the morality of the situation. If one does this enough by studying religions which raise moral question, and by studying history, then one can arrive at a developed morality.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
fschmidt
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2118
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 8:16 am
Location: El Paso, TX

Postby fschmidt » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:19 pm

The_Hero_of_Men wrote:Some might be like that, but for the most part, you're WRONG. I know plenty of atheists here in San Antonio, and they are good, honest, moral people-- in some cases, even more so than a lot of "Christians". Would you like it if someone came on this board and said that "all religious people (especially those Christians) are crazy wack-jobs and weaklings"? If not, then how is it okay to say that all atheists are immoral, religion-hating jerks? That would be like saying that all Muslims are terrorists/extremists (only a small minority are), or like saying that all Christians are "door-to-door" proselytizers (once again, only a few are). Granted, some atheists ARE religion-intolerant, but those are the MILITANT atheists. Most atheists are people who are just trying to live their lives. Religion (especially Christianity) does not have a monopoly on human morality.

I didn't say "all atheists", I just said "atheists" meaning most. We obviously disagree on the behavior of the majority of atheists. This is a factual disagreement that is hard to prove either way. I suggest that you go to an atheist forum and pretend to be a Christian and see how the atheists react. I think you will be surprised at the hostility. Your quote "all religious people (especially those Christians) are crazy wack-jobs and weaklings" is basically what I see atheists saying all the time.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
fschmidt
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2118
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 8:16 am
Location: El Paso, TX

Postby zacb » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:23 pm

Ok that kind of answers my question. Thanks
The Daily Agorist, Learn to Live Independent of the System! http://www.theagoristreview.blogspot.com
zacb
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:33 am
Location: Michigan

Postby The_Hero_of_Men » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:02 pm

fschmidt wrote:
The_Hero_of_Men wrote:Some might be like that, but for the most part, you're WRONG. I know plenty of atheists here in San Antonio, and they are good, honest, moral people-- in some cases, even more so than a lot of "Christians". Would you like it if someone came on this board and said that "all religious people (especially those Christians) are crazy wack-jobs and weaklings"? If not, then how is it okay to say that all atheists are immoral, religion-hating jerks? That would be like saying that all Muslims are terrorists/extremists (only a small minority are), or like saying that all Christians are "door-to-door" proselytizers (once again, only a few are). Granted, some atheists ARE religion-intolerant, but those are the MILITANT atheists. Most atheists are people who are just trying to live their lives. Religion (especially Christianity) does not have a monopoly on human morality.

I didn't say "all atheists", I just said "atheists" meaning most. We obviously disagree on the behavior of the majority of atheists. This is a factual disagreement that is hard to prove either way. I suggest that you go to an atheist forum and pretend to be a Christian and see how the atheists react. I think you will be surprised at the hostility. Your quote "all religious people (especially those Christians) are crazy wack-jobs and weaklings" is basically what I see atheists saying all the time.


I personally do not feel that way (the quote I used). I realize that you have a point. Yes, atheists do say that, but the ones I know and the ones I have observed try to refrain from saying those types of things.

I think we can agree on the fact that MILITANT atheists deny belief in a Higher Power to justify their hatred/contempt toward religion.

However, I cannot say that either most or some atheists behave like that, since there are those that hater/despise ANY religion, and there are those that are simply trying to live their lives as morally as possible.

I hope you did not take my post as an attack on you personally, because that was NOT my intent.
Wielding the blade of evil's bane, he sealed the dark one away and gave the land light. This man, who traveled through time to save the land, was known as the Hero of Men. The man's tale was passed down through generations until it became legend...
The_Hero_of_Men
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:22 pm
Location: The Surface (Hyrule)

Next

Return to Religion and Spirituality

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest