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How do agnostics/atheists form their philosophical beliefs?

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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Postby Winston » June 22nd, 2012, 9:10 pm

zacb wrote:I guess what makes killing a defacto standard , and not just a relative whim someone believes is wrong?


That's a bizarre question. Would you want someone to kill you?

Don't harm others or hurt others - just follow that and you'll be fine. I like the libertarian philosophy.

zacb, first you have to distinguish between atheists and non-theists. Atheists are religion-hating intolerant jerks, while non-theists simply don't believe in God. I discuss this in detail in Atheism. Atheists are immoral but non-theists may be moral. Buddhists and Confucianists are examples of moral non-theists. There are a few non-theistic sources of morality. One is to simply have faith in the way/morality of some moral system. Another is to develop one's own internal moral sense. Morality is an emotion which can be developed.


True to some extent. There are militant hateful Atheists, such as Richard Dawkins, who ridicules everyone who believes in God or the supernatural. And there are quiet Atheists like Sam Harris, author of "The End of Faith", who doesn't believe that Atheists should have labels, because, as he says, people who don't believe in astrology are not called "non-astrologers", so Atheists don't need a word to label them. They simply don't believe in God, but that in itself is not a belief. That's his argument.

But even people like him are trying to argue that one should only listen to science and not spirituality. They may not be as militant about it, but they use the same fundamentalist materialist arguments of scientism just the same.
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Postby fschmidt » June 23rd, 2012, 12:46 am

Winston wrote:And there are quiet Atheists like Sam Harris, author of "The End of Faith"


I never heard of Sam Harris, but I looked up the "The End of Faith" on Amazon and it says:

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"The End of Faith articulates the dangers and absurdities of organized religion so fiercely and so fearlessly that I felt relieved as I read it, vindicated....Harris writes what a sizable number of us think, but few are willing to say."
----------------

Yup, sounds like a typical religion-hating intolerant jerk to me.

But even people like him are trying to argue that one should only listen to science and not spirituality. They may not be as militant about it, but they use the same fundamentalist materialist arguments of scientism just the same.

I just call bullshit on this. A real understanding of science supports religious morality and shows liberal/atheist morality to be absurd.
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Postby noog » July 28th, 2012, 2:48 pm

I encourage you to read the works of Robert Green Ingersoll (there is a lot free online and also audio podcasts) if you are wondering how a healthy agnostic views the world.

link: http://www.infidels.org/library/histori ... ingersoll/
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Postby fschmidt » July 28th, 2012, 7:53 pm

noog wrote:I encourage you to read the works of Robert Green Ingersoll (there is a lot free online and also audio podcasts) if you are wondering how a healthy agnostic views the world.

link: http://www.infidels.org/library/histori ... ingersoll/


Another religion hating jerk. About the Bible, he writes:

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They forget its ignorance and savagery, its hatred of liberty, its religious persecution; they remember heaven, but they forget the dungeon of eternal pain. They forget that it imprisons the brain and corrupts the heart. They forget that it is the enemy of intellectual freedom. Liberty is my religion. Liberty of hand and brain -- of thought and labor, liberty is a word hated by kings -- loathed by popes. It is a word that shatters thrones and altars -- that leaves the crowned without subjects, and the outstretched hand of superstition without alms. Liberty is the blossom and fruit of justice -- the perfume of mercy. Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy.
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http://www.infidels.org/library/histori ... bible.html

What he fails to mention is that every democracy in history came from a strongly religious culture with a dominant patriarchal god. No other type of culture ever produced democracy or liberty.
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