Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.



View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       FAQ Topics       Mobile Friendly Theme


Did Jesus Christ Exist? The issue of his historicity.

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

Moderators: fschmidt, jamesbond

Post Reply
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 25352
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Winston » September 9th, 2017, 7:21 pm

MrPeabody wrote:The thing to keep in mind is that the New Testmenent is either written by Paul (his letters) or written by authors who were influenced by Paul's doctrine. And the Bible itself admits that Paul never actually met the historical Jesus. He had a vision of Jesus. So at that point he can make anything up. It would be like me saying that I had a vision of Winston talking to me in my sleep, and I then tell you what Winston said.

What I don't get, is that a lot of very smart people over a thousand years, thought the New Testament was teaching some high quality stuff worthy of sacred devotion. So, if there wasn't a "Jesus" then who came up with it?
Well Jesus wrote down nothing himself. So we don't know what he taught. One theory is that Paul invented Christianity and popularized it. Another is that the Roman historians, ordered by the Emperor, created Christianity by mixing Pagan deities together, such as Mithras, together with Egyptian deities and Astrology, for political reasons. To learn more about that theory, see the documentary and book by Joseph Atwill called "Caesar's Messiah - The Roman Invention of Christianity". It should still be on YouTube, though not necessarily by that name.

One key difference between Paul and Jesus is that Jesus said his teachings were for the Jews only, and that the ancient Biblical laws should not be broken. But Paul said that Christianity was for the Gentiles (non Jews) too and that the law of Moses could be thrown away now that Jesus made them unnecessary.
Check out my video series Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Also see my HA Grand Ebook and Join Our Dating Sites to support us!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

Adama
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 5624
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 10:37 pm

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Adama » September 10th, 2017, 6:36 am

Jesus is God in the flesh. He is Our God. He is our Creator. Without Him there is no life, because He is the source of life itself. That is one reason why He insists that we give Him the glory. The other reason is, because sin is in the world, He was loving enough to manifest in the flesh to pay the penalty for sin for us, and the penalty for sin is death. So God came in the flesh to die for our sins, to save us from the penalty of death.

All we must do is realize we can't save ourselves through our own works, because we are not perfectly sinless because we are not Christ. There is only one person who can redeem us: that is Christ. All we must do is believe in Him, and then He considers us worthy of eternal life, because when we believe in Him, He imputes His righteousness onto us, making us worthy.

Adama
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 5624
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 10:37 pm

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Adama » September 10th, 2017, 6:45 am

Either a person can believe or they can't believe. If you can believe, then you will go to heaven. If a person can't believe, they're doomed. It's easy to believe, but many people are incapable of coming to any kind of true faith in Jesus WITHOUT ANY WORKS. That's to their shame.

The Bible describes hell as fire and brimstone. Brimstone is sulfur. Lava and magma are liquid fire, and it contains sulfur, which is brimstone. Where does lava come from? From beneath the foundations of the mountains, just like God tells us in Deuteronomy. Hell is right beneath our feet. Lava is proof of it. This is undeniable proof that hell is real, yet people can't even believe this much when it is literally right there to be observed and shown to everyone. That's how rejected their minds are from the truth. And how willingly blind they are to the truth, not wanting to believe what is clearly seen.

And when you look at Sodom and Gomorrah, which are entombed in actual BRIMSTONE (sulfur), you really don't need any more proof than this.

MrPeabody
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1437
Joined: April 13th, 2008, 7:53 pm

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by MrPeabody » September 10th, 2017, 7:56 am

Another interesting argument that Jesus never existed is that Nazareth never existed during the time of Jesus.

"The evidence that disproves the authenticity of the gospels is the fact that the town of Nazareth where Jesus supposedly spent his childhood did not even exist in any form until at least 100 years after his supposed death and resurrection. Moreover, a town called Nazareth is nowhere to be found in the Hebrew Old Testament nor in any other historical document until long after Jesus’ supposed death. The city of Nazareth was a real city, but not during the supposed life of Jesus."
Denney, Michael. Odin Says, "Jesus Was A Coward!": The Monotheist Subversion of Traditional Religious Thought"

Here is a website that goes into the details.

http://www.nazarethmyth.info/naz1article.html

User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 25352
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Winston » September 14th, 2017, 10:59 pm

MrPeabody,
Is it possible that nazareth did exist 2000 years ago but that it was too small to be recorded in roman documents? Or perhaps the records of it were lost? The romans were not perfect record keepers right?

My italian friend told me that if someone wanted to make up jesus they wouldnt put him in a fictitious town right? They would put him in a real town to make the story more credible right? Why make up a town that doesnt exist and damage your credibility?

Also sometimes lost cities are discovered, like Troy right? So sometimes mythical cities are found by archaeologists and proven to have existed after all?
Check out my video series Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Also see my HA Grand Ebook and Join Our Dating Sites to support us!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 25352
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Winston » September 14th, 2017, 11:06 pm

From my italian friend regarding the existence of Nazareth:

[9/15, 12:32 AM] Alex From Italy: I think that the claim of the inexistence of Nazareth at the time of Jesus its irrelevant
[9/15, 12:35 AM] Alex From Italy: historians are known to have been proven wrong many times when they were "sure" that a story was just a myth and therefore what's told isn't real but imagination
[9/15, 12:36 AM] Alex From Italy: like the town of Troy that had been believed to never existed til it has been found
[9/15, 12:37 AM] Alex From Italy: historians are alarm sure that Atlantis never existed
[9/15, 12:40 AM] Alex From Italy: that the Egyptian Sphinx has been build the Egyptians while it's been proven that it's been corroded by centuries of rain which never happened at the time of the Egyptians
[9/15, 12:41 AM] Alex From Italy: maybe the Gospels are right and the historians are, once again, wrong
[9/15, 12:44 AM] Alex From Italy: but even if the Gospel are wrong on that particular detail, that doesn't mean that everything it's wrong and fake
[9/15, 12:48 AM] Alex From Italy: moreover there are inexplicable phenomenas like healing from unrecoverable disease, the stigmata, the exorcisms, that are undoubtedly linked to the Christian religion and therefore the faith in Jesus
[9/15, 12:49 AM] Alex From Italy: what matter of the Gospels it's the message, the teachings, not the accuracy of the topography and chronology
[9/15, 1:20 AM] Alex From Italy: it's what says to your soul not to your ears
Check out my video series Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Also see my HA Grand Ebook and Join Our Dating Sites to support us!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 25352
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Winston » September 15th, 2017, 12:32 am

My friend from venice explained to me below why Christianity was not a set up or hoax. What do you all think? Does he make sense?

[9/15, 7:18 AM] Alex From Venice: Christian religion isn't a set up... if it is the authors would be totally insane because they didn't get anything in terms of power and wealth
[9/15, 7:18 AM] Alex From Venice: The Muslim religion it's a perfect set up instead
[9/15, 7:19 AM] Alex From Venice: and it's author has done exactly what someone who wants to build up a new religion for own good would do
[9/15, 7:20 AM] Alex From Venice: he claimed to be the one with a almost direct connection to God and that what he says it's from God
[9/15, 7:21 AM] Alex From Venice: he didn't made someone else protagonist of the religion
[9/15, 7:21 AM] Alex From Venice: he made himself
[9/15, 7:22 AM] Alex From Venice: in the Muslim religion there's God, then Mohammad, then all others
[9/15, 7:23 AM] Alex From Venice: if Paul was the author of a fake religion why he didn't put himself right after God as Mohammed did?
[9/15, 7:25 AM] Alex From Venice: Mohammed also was a warrior leader, he had no problem at all to make up a religion that supports war and enslaving
[9/15, 7:25 AM] Alex From Venice: that indeed was very "reasonable"
[9/15, 7:26 AM] Alex From Venice: Why then Paul would have made a religion promoting peace and forgiveness at all costs and "love the enemy"
[9/15, 7:27 AM] Alex From Venice: which is a nonsense for any human being
[9/15, 7:28 AM] Alex From Venice: Christian religion can't be out of a fiction because no reasonable man would have come out with such unreasonable and useless (in terms of self wealth and power) story
Check out my video series Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Also see my HA Grand Ebook and Join Our Dating Sites to support us!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 25352
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Winston » September 15th, 2017, 2:20 am

Why would the jewish talmud and muslim koran, which are opposed to Christianity, admit that jesus existed if he didnt?
Check out my video series Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Also see my HA Grand Ebook and Join Our Dating Sites to support us!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

MrMan
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2330
Joined: July 31st, 2014, 3:52 am

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by MrMan » September 15th, 2017, 2:52 am

MrPeabody,

Anyone can put up a website and claim that no historical evidence for something exists. All they have to do is not research or just ignore the existence of that thing and post a blog claiming there is no evidence.

There are several videos of archaeologists digging up first century Nazareth on YouTube.

I haven't watched the whole thing, but here is one of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHst1FAC4bk

Someone put together a little video mentioning some of the other types of evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzpPOXnA5SE

The Gospels are also evidence that Nazareth existed. Even if you don't believe the Gospel, it doesn't make sense that these authors would make up towns that don't exist if they wanted to convince people of Jesus' existence. We don't have a complete set of first century Roman records. First century fragments have been found that are believed to be part of the book of Mark.

John McDowell wrote a what some have called a high-school-level apologetics book that answers some of these types of objections. He says there is more evidence that Jesus Christ existed than Julius Caesar. It's strange how people will accept the accepted version of history for other historical figures, but insist on having exact original copies of the New Testament.

User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 25352
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Winston » September 15th, 2017, 3:35 am

MrMan,
Don't you mean Josh Mcdowell, not John?

How can you compare Jesus to Julius Caesar? Theres no comparison. Julius Caesar is mentioned in Roman history books at the time he lived. Many famous historical figures knew him too, such as his friend Marc Anthony, his lover Cleopatra, his successor Caesar Augustus, etc. Even the whole Roman army knew him since he was their general and led them into many campaigns up north. Julius Caesar even wrote his own memoirs, which you can read online or buy a copy of.

In contrast, Jesus wrote down nothing and no famous historical figure ever claimed to have met Jesus firsthand in person. Even Pontius Pilate never mentioned Jesus in any Roman documents.

So on what basis does Josh McDowell claim that theres more evidence for Jesus than Julius Caesar?
Check out my video series Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Also see my HA Grand Ebook and Join Our Dating Sites to support us!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

MrPeabody
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1437
Joined: April 13th, 2008, 7:53 pm

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by MrPeabody » September 15th, 2017, 4:16 pm

The website I referenced goes over all the scams.

The one video seemed to be referencing the "Narareth Village Farm" scam.

http://www.nazarethmyth.info/scandalfive.html

The bottom line is there is no evidence Jesus existed and Nazareth didn't even exist until long after Jesus died. Christianity is a multi billion dollar industry so they will still try to deceive people.

User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 25352
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Winston » September 21st, 2017, 4:47 pm

MrMan wrote:MrPeabody,

Anyone can put up a website and claim that no historical evidence for something exists. All they have to do is not research or just ignore the existence of that thing and post a blog claiming there is no evidence.
Have you seen that blog that Mr Peabody posted? Lol.

http://www.nazarethmyth.info/naz1article.html
Recently, when I argued that Jesus didn’t want me to be like the hypocrites and pray in public [Matthew 6:5–6], no one took my ‘proof’ seriously. Speaking to the ceiling, I had ‘tested’ my own claim by exclaiming “Jesus! If you agree that we should not be hypocrites and should not pray in public, give us absolutely no sign in the next ten seconds!”

Similarly, millions of people in TV audiences have been unimpressed by my ‘demonstration’ of the nonexistence of the Christian god when I have exclaimed “Jehovah! If you exist, strike me dead in the next ten minutes!” Even the fact that I am always still alive ten minutes later seems not to move the world one bit.
What an insane rant. The author actually claims that he proved that God doesnt exist simply because he challenged God to strike him down with lightning, and when God didnt comply then that is proof that he doesn't exist. Lol

Man that is the lamest atheist argument i ever heard. It sounds like he has an axe to grind. Such an argument is so juvenile and petty. Not the kind that a mature adult uses. Lol

How can MrPeabody take such a nut seriously? Lol. The dude has no credibility when he makes such insane arguments and pretends they mean anything. Lol. If he was a comedian it would be one thing.
Check out my video series Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Also see my HA Grand Ebook and Join Our Dating Sites to support us!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

Adama
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 5624
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 10:37 pm

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Adama » September 21st, 2017, 7:10 pm

Winston wrote:
MrMan wrote:MrPeabody,

Anyone can put up a website and claim that no historical evidence for something exists. All they have to do is not research or just ignore the existence of that thing and post a blog claiming there is no evidence.
Have you seen that blog that Mr Peabody posted? Lol.

http://www.nazarethmyth.info/naz1article.html
Recently, when I argued that Jesus didn’t want me to be like the hypocrites and pray in public [Matthew 6:5–6], no one took my ‘proof’ seriously. Speaking to the ceiling, I had ‘tested’ my own claim by exclaiming “Jesus! If you agree that we should not be hypocrites and should not pray in public, give us absolutely no sign in the next ten seconds!”

Similarly, millions of people in TV audiences have been unimpressed by my ‘demonstration’ of the nonexistence of the Christian god when I have exclaimed “Jehovah! If you exist, strike me dead in the next ten minutes!” Even the fact that I am always still alive ten minutes later seems not to move the world one bit.
What an insane rant. The author actually claims that he proved that God doesnt exist simply because he challenged God to strike him down with lightning, and when God didnt comply then that is proof that he doesn't exist. Lol

Man that is the lamest atheist argument i ever heard. It sounds like he has an axe to grind. Such an argument is so juvenile and petty. Not the kind that a mature adult uses. Lol

How can MrPeabody take such a nut seriously? Lol. The dude has no credibility when he makes such insane arguments and pretends they mean anything. Lol. If he was a comedian it would be one thing.
When such a person finally dies, and then falls into the blackness of absolutely darkness, with blistering heat, and after the tormentor beasts have torn such a person in pieces several times, then they'll wish they could go back and try again. But their destruction will continue forever. And there will be no rescue or escape. Such a person will not be boasting then.

User avatar
Contrarian Expatriate
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2264
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 6:57 am

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » September 22nd, 2017, 5:18 am

Adama wrote: When such a person finally dies, and then falls into the blackness of absolutely darkness, with blistering heat, and after the tormentor beasts have torn such a person in pieces several times, then they'll wish they could go back and try again. But their destruction will continue forever. And there will be no rescue or escape. Such a person will not be boasting then.
Adama, you should know that such talk does not affect anyone not brainwashed by Christian orthodoxy. I would go much further to say that when Christians spew this nonsense at CHILDREN, it is confirmation that it is an evil and manipulative force to control people.

I would encourage you to examine why you, as a grown man, still believe this filth? Did your parents indoctrinate you with this, or did Sunday School teachers do it?

Whatever the case, it fails the test of reason. Most people, living and dead, are not Christians. So I guess the "fiery pitchforks of hell" have pricked 99% of people who have ever lived.

You are being superstitious and creepy even. Keep your religious fairy tales to yourself if you have nothing but juvenile scare tactics to make your case.
Feel free to visit my sites and to leave your respected words of wisdom:

http://thedeclineofmyamerica.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/user/ContrarianExpatriate

Adama
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 5624
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 10:37 pm

Re: Did Jesus Christ Exist? Questioning his historicity.

Post by Adama » September 22nd, 2017, 2:48 pm

This section is entitled Religion and Spirituality. So my Christianity posts are allowed. And specifically this thread is about Christianity.

I would wonder why you need to come in here to flame me with your sassiness, but I already know the answer: you hate God, Christianity, Christians, and probably many other things. That's your problem, not mine. Personally I don't care whether you hate my posts or not. I post regardless. Now if you hassle me, I will just ignore you. You're acting like an unreasonable person.

As for the 99%, if they were meek people who were willing to believe in the Lord, then God will show them His salvation to get them into eternal life. God is capable of getting anyone saved, as long as they are humble. It doesn't matter where or when they lived. God is all powerful and He foreknew who could believe in His Son and who wouldn't.

And as for the unfortunate people who refused to believe because they loved the pleasure of unrighteousness for a season over the prospect of love, peace, glory, joy, rest, light, air, fellowship, water and food for eternity, God obviously doesn't want them in His Kingdom. If God had wanted unrighteous people in His Kingdom, then He would not demand what He does. So if they want to live unrestricted, then God will not invite them to live forever in His Household.

Like I said, the choice belongs to the person. Eternal life, which entails love, glory, joy, peace, food, air, water, and rest forever with the Lord and God Himself in His fullness; or eternal blistering heat, maggots, black darkness, starvation, thirst, soot and sulfur for air, and repeatedly torn to pieces by tormentor beasts forever. The choice is quite simple.

You can choose to believe it is fiction if you want though. No skin off my back.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Religion and Spirituality”