Discuss religion and spirituality topics.
I wonder why HA attracts so many atheists and agnostics to the forum? I think besides me, ILoveBlackAmericanWomen, well-informed, fscmidt, Jester and a couple of others', everybody else seem to disparage religion and God all the time in the forum. I think that's why you have so many unhappy people on HappierAbroad. Having a spiritual life is very important in my opinion, and it is one important factor to fight against depression and unhappiness. Also, by believing in God, it gives a person meaning in their life and a moral template to live by. Do you agree or disagree with my opinion?
Last edited by zboy1 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.
And Winston, I mentioned in another thread that I think you need to find God again in your life. Why did you reject Christianity in the first place? I know you were a Christian, but what made you turn away from your faith? I know you're now a skeptic and even created a forum rejecting God and religion. I'm curious to know you're answer.
I'm agnostic because I can't claim to know that there isn't a higher up, but I avoid Christianity because so many wars, genocides, racism, etc. etc. have been committed in the name of it and some of the perpetrators were true believers. I've read some parts of the Bible and did attend church as a kid for a few years with other Asian American Christians, and it does have some good things to say, but too often the words are twisted for someone else's agenda. I also think that you can live a good peaceful life if you have a solid personal philosophy, such as my readings on Zen Buddhism, and seeking enlightenment through martial arts.
But what really pisses me off and leads me to the "Dark Side" is that I realize that although maybe I can "let go" and "let live" and live nobly, there will always be these other disgusting human beings trying to make my life difficult or the lives of others difficult for the stupidest reasons and because humans are disgustingly sinful, jealous, hateful, etc. etc. myself included because I have become extremely jaded and hateful towards the white supremacists.
But I have also come to believe I should embrace my rage and passion and fight back for those who cannot fight back, are too weak to fight back, or do not have the will to fight back. You can take negative energy and use it for positive outcomes. Obviously you can become jaded and bitter in the process, but I was always jaded and bitter and angry because of my life experiences as somebody who got some of the shittiest cards ever. And of course life is not fair and never was.
The thing is that when religions like Christianity or Buddhism tell you to forget and forgive, that is the easy way out, that is also the coward's way out, because then you are not fighting for justice, not fighting for the underdog, and not fighting for those who cannot fight for themselves. I despise that kind of thinking where you just lay down your weapons and let the evil people bent on oppressing you have their way. I'd rather struggle and fight throughout my life, than do nothing at all. Perhaps I ultimately fail and die, but at least I had the courage to raise my sword and charge at a horde of enemies with a thundering battle cry.
If the Christian God were real, I'd say he is a complete jackass for making life so unfair and difficult for people. As Buddhists would say, life is suffering.
Last edited by lone_yakuza on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I Strongly disagree. Theistic beliefs are abhorrent, they will not give you spiritual vitality in the true sense, only mere psychological consolation. Of course having a spiritual life is of utmost importance for happiness, but spirituality is not about believing fairy stories and pretending to know unknowable things, it is simply about possessing a pure outlook on life; one free of cultural delusions (the complete opposite of the theistic outlook). Christians admittedly possess no greater level of consciousness than average, therefore they are not spiritual.
If Christians really know what they claim to know, why are the vast majority of them still very much bound by the trivial matters of this world? Why do Christians get so offended when you criticize their beliefs, if they know they are correct? It's because they do not know. They would not need faith if there were no doubt. What they wilfully believe out of blind faith is that billions of people are going to burn in hell while they live in paradise, simply because they held differing beliefs than others based on diabolically bad evidence. Spirituality is about trying to end the belief in our perceived differences with one another which are entirely superficial in reality and uniting humanity as one. Do you really think Christianity as we experience it promotes this in any way?
Not all Christians are like what you mentioned, Lavezzi. And I know some Christians that could care less about material possessions or get offended easily when you criticize God or Christianity. I think you thoughts are clouded by the right-wing fanatics that color people's perception of Christians throughout the world--especially the right-wing moral majority types in the United States. I absolutely despise them, but they don't represent all the Christians in the U.S. or the world for that matter.
cÂ´mon guys religion is shit. itÂ´s an attack on our intelligence. i understand why you want to belief it because you are afraid. but why are you afraid?
probably because of your gens. our gens want nothing else than survive and getting children. the problem is in modern times science pretty much makes it impossible to believe that shit.
though also many greek philosophers didnÂ´t belief in god. i like for example epikur. he was a cool mofo though maybe a coward so nothing for yakuza.
for yakuza the stoics would be more fitting.
i think specially for guys who want to get married and have children it lessons their fear when they belief in dady (god) so they donÂ´t have to be accountable for their deeds.
i donÂ´t blame anyone. i am an relativist and then a determinist. so i donÂ´t belief in free will. we have no freedom. make your choice
This is the thing about Christianity is that most people wont experience the spiritual presence of God as long as they live in the flesh living in accordance to their desires of this life.
Its in our nature to be rebellious sinning humans since birth, that's why Jesus told the cold-hard truth and said if any man desires to come after him let him deny himself (let go of your carnal understanding of things), take up your cross (be prepared to suffer for the sake of righteousness) and follow him (do as christ leads you to do)
Jesus teachings were offensive to many because he calls people out on their sins. Sins that to this day people don't want to let go. Darkness has to be exposed in the light(Jesus). Either you submit to the light or run away from it.
Of course God(Jesus) isn't a reality to most people, because people aren't praying enough(let alone kneeling before a holy god), reading the bible in humility, following the commandments, and growing spiritually everyday.
Intellectually, scientifically people wont figure the existence of God out its just not gonna happen.
Would you let your 3 year old child tell you how to run your life, likewise God in all his glory isn't going to be subjected to man's ideas since they all conclusively are never fully in agreement with each other. The concept of only ONE way/bridge to salvation is really uncomfortable for many.
I know ive been much happier ever since i became Christian, i know it because of how Jesus has been cleansing me from the inside out from all the bitterness i had in my heart with how people around me treated me and used me. Believe me sin has its price and that's why you see so much evil in this world increasing as the years go on. Hearts are becoming colder and colder nowadays i'm sure you guys can see it around you.
Last edited by well-informed on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Your criticism is a fair one, based on common beliefs. People who tell you God is both all-good and all-powerful are clearly lying to you and to themselves.
Therefore lots of people, who like you, hate injustice, figure out that they are being lied to, and assume He is not all-good, and like you refuse to believe in Him.
But anyone who has prayed in any decent tradition, Christian or other, can tell you from experience that God is INDEED all good, all-loving.
So what is the truth? If He IS all-good, then He must not be all-powerful. This is the truth. The all-powerful thing is Calvinist nonsense. We are in charge day-to-da. God delegated authority to Man. We give our authority up to the Devil, and submit to a harsh, bitter world (like accepting rule by a commissar in a gulag, you can exist but never feel joy).... or we exercise God-given authority ourselves, and do battle against men who serve the Devil.
A Godly man should be peaceful except in war, but never a pacifist. He should be armed, but never seek an unnecessary fight.
It sounds like you have reason to reject plenty of mushy-headed Christians. But will you let the mush-heads keep you from the source of all power?
Ignore the preachers. Read the Gospels. Pray to Jesus. Listen to Him, not them.
So you are a Luciferian, a globalist? You want all belief systems eradicated, so that there are no "perceived differences"? You're going to wipe out our beliefs, so that we can be docile followers?
And you see Christianity as standing in your way? In this at least, you are right.
An intelligent Greek philosopher could believe in creation by Kronos, Zeus, et al., or some other Creation myth. But I don't think you'll find one dumb enough to believe in an ordered universe arising from nothing without a divine hand.
So who made us, and our world? With all that intelligence, you doubtless have an answer?
Are you afraid of the truth?
Hearts and heads.
"THE MEDIATOR BETWEEN HEAD AND HANDS MUST BE THE HEART!" - Metropolis
I'm someone who believes in determinism on a cosmic scale, but free will on a functional one. We can't examine our own neural pathways in real time after all. That may imply Creationism. I certainly do believe in evolution though. I mean, you can just look at plant and animal domestication. Why is fruit sent from farms to supermarkets typically larger than wild species? Why do they often lack seeds? What about dog breeding? This is artificial selection that no one could doubt is real. Natural selection isn't exactly a stretch.
But the universe isn't exactly ordered. We are only using our human perception to view a very limited segment of what is "reality." Think of all the different animals who see the world completely differently than we do, who can perceive the world on the different wavelengths.
Or maybe other lifeforms in the universe that are not based on carbon and H2O.
Personally I think that whatever god, cosmic force, mother nature, whatever created the universe and earth and allowed for the evolution of apes into humans... they basically just created the basics and then sat back and had a laugh at what ensued.
It could all just be randomness + the forces of nature though. We humans have too limited a view and ability to view the universe to claim that there was ever a creator. But we can also never prove that there was never a creator.
So I don't think that should be the focus. What we should focus on is what philosophies are beneficial to all of us as a whole, and to focus on how we should take care of the planet and how we should treat each other, because we live on such a small planet with such limited resources.
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