Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Thurs nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts with FREE Prizes!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE Live AFA Seminar! See locations and details.


Scam free! Check out Christian Filipina - Meet Asian women with Christian values! Members screened.
Exclusive book offer! 75% off! How to Meet, Date and Marry Your Filipina Wife



View Active Topics       Latest 100 Topics       View Your Posts       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


Leaving Islam Part 1: Contradictions in dialogues

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Leaving Islam Part 1: Contradictions in dialogues

Postby theprimebait » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:03 am

There are some Textual Versions of the quran,wich contain discrepancies in the Text,The most common in use Being Hafs(used by most since 1924) and Warsh(still used in North and west africa )and Al-duri used in Sudan.However that is not the point of my post today.The post today will deal with INTERNAL contradictions in the Actual quranic dialogues and Stories.

Differences in qu’rans:

يَعْمَلُونَ تَعْمَلُونَ you do, they do Al-Baqara 2:85 مَا تَنَزِّلُ مَا نُنَزِّلُ we did not send down, you did not send down Al-Ḥijr 15:8 قُل قَالَ he said ,say! Al-Anbiyā' 21:4 كَثِيرًا كَبِيرًا mighty, multitudinous Al-Aḥzāb 33:68 بِمَا فَبِمَا then it is what, it is what Al-Shura 42:30 نُدْخِلْهُ يُدْخِلْهُ he makes him enter ,we make him enter Al-Fatḥ 48:17 While these differences Are due to the fact Arabic letters contained no dots until long after the qu’ran was Created,they are all unauthentic and God would preserve his perfect book if it came from him.
A Great Book on this subject is : http://www.answering-islam.org/PQ/main.htm#MainIndex
Muslims acknowledge there are 10 versions of the qu’ran,they only claim 7 of the the ten were revealed by allah,a claim wich contradicts logic and has no source within Actual Study(the seven ‘’revealed ahruf are not the 7 differences today)



The reason these differences are important is because this suggests multiple authors,If Allah Had spoken these words ,he would Recall them in their exact form.


God speaks to the Angels:
15:28 Behold! Thy Lord said to the angels: "I
am about to create man from sounding clay
from mud molded into shape

38:71 Behold! Thy Lord said to the angels: "I am
about to create man from clay

God Evicts adam and Eve from the Garden:

7:24 He said: “Get ye down, one of you an
enemy to another; and for you on the earth
there shall be a habitation and provision for
a season.â€￾
20:123 He said: “Get ye down from it all
together one of you an enemy to another; but if
as is sure there comes to you from Me
guidance whosoever follows My guidance
will not lose his way nor fall into misery.

7:59 We sent Noah to his people. He said: “O
my people! Serve Allah! Ye have no other
god but Him. Verily I fear for you the
punishment of a dreadful day!
11:25,26 We sent Noah to his people: “I have
come to you as a plain warner: that ye serve
none but Allah. Verily I fear for you the
punishment of a grievous day.
Abraham confronts his people’s Idolatry:
21:52 Behold he said to his
father and his people: “What
are these images to which you
are devoted?â€￾
26:71 Behold he said to his
father and his people: “What
do you worship?â€￾
37:85 Behold he said to his
father and his people: “What
is that which you worship?â€￾

21:53 They said: “We found our fathers
worshipping them.â€￾
26:74 They said: “No, but we found our fathers
doing this.â€￾

Moses sees the burning bush
20:10 He said to his family:
“Wait! Verily, I have seen a
fire, perhaps I may bring you
from there some burning
brand, or find some guidance
at the fire.â€￾
27:7 when Musa (Moses) said
to his household: “Verily! I
have seen a fire, I will bring
you from there some
information, or I will bring
you a burning brand, that
you may warm yourselves.â€￾
28:29 He said to his family:
“Wait, Verily I have seen a
fire; perhaps I may bring you
from there some information,
or a branch from the fire that
you may warm yourselves

Allah speaks to Moses at the burning bush
27:9, 10 “O Moses! Verily I am Allah the
Exalted in Might the Wise! Throw down your
stick!â€￾
28:30, 31 “O Moses! Verily I am Allah the
Lord of the Worlds! Throw down your stick!â€￾


Allah instructs Moses about the leprous hand
20:22 “Now draw thy hand
close to thy side: it shall come
forth white without stain
27:12 “Now put thy hand into
thy bosom and it will come
forth white without stain
28:32 “Move thy hand into
thy bosom and it will come
forth white without stain

The sorcerers challenge Moses
7:115 They said: “O Moses! Wilt thou throw or
shall we be the throwers?â€￾
20:65 They said: “O Moses! Wilt thou throw or
shall we be the first who throw?

The sorcerers repent
7:120-122 But the sorcerers fell down prostrate
in adoring, they said: “We believe in the Lord
of the worlds. The Lord of Moses and Aaron.â€￾
20:70 So the sorcerers fell down prostrate in
adoration: they said “We believe in the Lord of
Aaron and Moses.â€￾

Pharoah’s threat to the sorcerers
7:123 Pharaoh said: “Believe ye in him before I
give you permission? Surely this is a trick
which ye have planned in the city to drive out
its people: but soon shall ye know (the
consequences).
20:71 He said: “Believe ye on him before I give
you permission? Surely this must be your
leader who has taught you magic! Be sure I
will cut off your hands and feet on opposite
sides and I will have you crucified on trunks
of palm-trees:

Allah’s instructions to Moses
26:52 “Then depart with My slaves. Surely,
you will be pursued.â€￾
44:23 “And depart with My slaves by night.
Surely, you will be pursued.
Instructions to the people of Israel
2:58 And remember We said: “Enter this town
and eat therein as ye wish plentifully ; but
enter the gate prostrating and say “Forgive
usâ€￾ and We shall forgive you your faults and
increase (the portion of) those who do good.â€￾
7:161 And remember it was said to them:
“Dwell
in this town and eat therein as ye wish but say
“Forgive usâ€￾ and enter the gate prostrating;
We shall forgive you your faults; We shall
increase (the portion of) those who do good.â€￾

Saleh warns the people of Thamud
7:73 He said: “O my people!
Worship Allah; ye have no
other god but Him. Now
hath come unto you a clear
(sign) from your Lord! This
shecamel of Allah is a sign
unto you: so leave her to graze
in Allah's earth and touch her
not with harm lest a grievous
punishment seize you.
11:64 “And O my people!
This she-camel of Allah is a
sign to you: leave her to graze
on Allah's earth and touch her
not with harm lest a swift
Penalty seize you!
26:155, 156 He said: “This
shecamel has a right of
watering and ye have a right
of watering on a day
appointed. Touch her not with
harm lest the Penalty of a
Great Day seize you.â€￾

Zakariyah talking to Angel:
3:40 He said: “O my lord! How shall I have a
son, seeing I am very old, and my wife is
barren?â€￾
19:8 “He said: “O my lord! How shall I have a
son when my wife is barren and I have grown
decrepit from old age?â€￾

The angel speaks to Zakariya
3:41 He said: “Your sign will be that thou will
speak to no man for three days, except with
signals.
Yusuf ali,main qu’ran Translator for Westernized muslims,Notes about surah Seven:

These verses, 58-59, may be compared to vii. 161-162. There are two verbal differences. Here (ii. 58) we have "enter the town" and in vii. 161 we have "dwell in the town." Again in ii. 59 here we have "infringed (Our command)," and in vii. 162, we have "transgressed." The verbal differences make no difference to the sense. (Ali, The Holy Quran - Translation and Commentary, p. 31, f. 72; )

Definately,the Verbal and or Wording differences do not Affect Theology at all,or the intended meaning,but The qu’ran is quoting a dialogue here,both contrasts can’t Be Right.

The pagans in muhammad's Town had a similar criticism of muhammad that he borrowed tales of the ancients and being taught these stories day and night by someone or more, ,the quran testifies to this:
And they say: "Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written: and they are dictated before him morning and evening."

Surah 25:5

it is very possible Muhammad Hearing these Stories,got confused,as is human nature and Didn''t Remember the details.

Also 4:82 states: Do they not ponder on the Qur'an?
Had it been from other than Allah,
they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.
theprimebait
Junior Poster
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:02 am







Postby theprimebait » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:26 pm

BUMP
theprimebait
Junior Poster
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:02 am

Postby theprimebait » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:26 pm

BUMP
theprimebait
Junior Poster
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:02 am

Postby theprimebait » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:26 pm

BUMP
theprimebait
Junior Poster
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:02 am

Postby Billy » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:37 pm

what the hell has this crap to do at HA? Anyway as i was raised moslem and now being an atheist it doesn´t affect me much though i find it interesting how mohammed came to the idea of creating "namaz" the form of praying. just recently did i discover by chance that the hole stuff was already there even the forms of the prayer which i think makes islam so powerfull. also the "kaba" as a holy place was obviosly always there.
Billy
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:01 pm

Postby Moretorque » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:16 am

And may Allah drive an airliner through your living room! :D
Time to Hide!
Moretorque
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4149
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:00 pm
Location: USA,FL

Postby C.J. » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:57 pm

The "lord", was always the human being. It is inside all of us. The texts do not matter as much;they are but guiding words, to help you reach that which you hide from yourself - godlike power. However, everyone is different and will reach joy in different ways.
C.J.
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:56 pm

Postby Moretorque » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:34 am

C.J. wrote:The "lord", was always the human being. It is inside all of us. The texts do not matter as much;they are but guiding words, to help you reach that which you hide from yourself - godlike power. However, everyone is different and will reach joy in different ways.


CJ are you smoking Crack and Joints again at the same time?
Time to Hide!
Moretorque
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4149
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:00 pm
Location: USA,FL

Postby C.J. » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:41 am

Haha, they say drugs are a gateway to spiritual enlightenment! :lol:

Seriously though, you're the only God you should depend on. There are no supernatural spirits that will help you on your life path, regardless of those people encounter. Jesus, Allah or otherwise. There may be a time where the elite will try and trick you into believing in certain religions.

The only person you can trust, IS YOU!

As certain individuals start climbing the ladder of Anti-Freemasonry, they'll start to realize this to be their core credo.
C.J.
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:56 pm

Postby Moretorque » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:46 pm

C.J. wrote:Haha, they say drugs are a gateway to spiritual enlightenment! :lol:

Seriously though, you're the only God you should depend on. There are no supernatural spirits that will help you on your life path, regardless of those people encounter. Jesus, Allah or otherwise. There may be a time where the elite will try and trick you into believing in certain religions.

The only person you can trust, IS YOU!

As certain individuals start climbing the ladder of Anti-Freemasonry, they'll start to realize this to be their core credo.


Their doing that right now in Israel, there are billions of bible thumpers world wide so the credit monopoly is making the bible look like real history to support the claim of God and this is god's land for the people of the world, so we are doing these deeds in the name of god for the betterment of man they claim. They know how stupid the Christers are and they are falsifying the digs and everything to correlate with the narrative of the bible.

For the most part it is working, anybody who would base the bible as real history and actual events as in a literal interpretation is in a dream world and they know most people are out there.

They realized when they got into this they could either educate Daa dumb herd or dupe it and program it, they settled for #2 and from their point of view duping Daa herd and turning it into a tenant is much easier than trying to educate it.
Time to Hide!
Moretorque
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4149
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:00 pm
Location: USA,FL

Postby ladislav » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:15 pm

The problem with most believers is that they take literally what should be taken symbolically. These are all fables with an underlying message of power within.

I enjoy reading about the ant and the grasshopper but it's an allegory. I do not build religions based on those.

So are all these holy books. Anyone who takes them at face value is insane. Or is forced /brainwashed to be insane.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Postby Moretorque » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:18 am

ladislav wrote:The problem with most believers is that they take literally what should be taken symbolically. These are all fables with an underlying message of power within.

I enjoy reading about the ant and the grasshopper but it's an allegory. I do not build religions based on those.

So are all these holy books. Anyone who takes them at face value is insane. Or is forced /brainwashed to be insane.


The world is a rough place for most, believing in something other than this is understandable but nature and reality really are cold and do not give a shit. The bible is a very deep story at it's core and yes they made it up for the most part but the true theology behind it is very loving and touching to say the least.

The people who wrote it were the scientist of the day and more than likely the true theologian perspective of it is correct.
Time to Hide!
Moretorque
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4149
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:00 pm
Location: USA,FL


Return to Religion and Spirituality

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest