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The Karaite Judaism Option

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

The Karaite Judaism Option

Postby fschmidt » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:45 pm

I have been struggling for years to find a sane alternative to modern culture. Those who are satisfied with modern culture have no reason to read this post, so just stop reading and don't comment. For those not satisfied with modern culture, let's consider the requirements of a sane culture:

1. No feminism - men are allowed to be men and women are allowed to be women.
2. Sound morals - members of the culture should be required to treat each other decently.
3. Reasonable - allows reasoning and doesn't require faith (anti-reason) in supernatural beliefs.

These requirements rule out almost every culture and religion in the world today. One religion from the past that meets these requirements is the religion of the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament). And there is one religion today that claims to follow the Hebrew Bible, Karaite Judaism. Having exhausted all other options, I consider Karaite Judaism to be the last hope. So I have composed a message that I plan to post to a mailing list that includes Karaites. Here it is:

http://www.actbiblically.org/Daly-City-Karaite-Synagogue-tp5000990.html

I would appreciate any feedback on this message before I post it.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
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Re: The Karaite Option

Postby Jester » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:46 pm

fschmidt wrote:I have been struggling for years to find a sane alternative to modern culture. Those who are satisfied with modern culture have no reason to read this post, so just stop reading and don't comment. For those not satisfied with modern culture, let's consider the requirements of a sane culture:

1. No feminism - men are allowed to be men and women are allowed to be women.
2. Sound morals - members of the culture should be required to treat each other decently.
3. Reasonable - allows reasoning and doesn't require faith (anti-reason) in supernatural beliefs.

These requirements rule out almost every culture and religion in the world today. One religion from the past that meets these requirements is the religion of the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament). And there is one religion today that claims to follow the Hebrew Bible, Karaite Judaism. Having exhausted all other options, I consider Karaite Judaism to be the last hope. So I have composed a message that I plan to post to a mailing list that includes Karaites. Here it is:

http://www.actbiblically.org/Daly-City- ... 00990.html

I would appreciate any feedback on this message before I post it.


Very well-written message, should work to get thoughtful responses if there are intelligent people on the forums.
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Postby Cornfed » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:37 pm

It seems like you are trying to separate morality from the cosmology underpinning it. I personally doubt this is possible or desirable.
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Postby Jester » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:45 pm

Got to agree with Cornfed on that. People often join the Mormons because of the pro-family, communal culture. They don't buy the mumbo-jumbo. But they keep their mouths shut - and pretend.
"Pick a point and go to it."
-- Dr John Hunsucker, speaking about canoeing on Georgia's Lake Lanier, with its irregular shape, and 1000 miles of meandering shoreline
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Postby fschmidt » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:54 pm

Cornfed wrote:It seems like you are trying to separate morality from the cosmology underpinning it. I personally doubt this is possible or desirable.

I guess by "cosmology" you mean belief system. This is why I love the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), because it doesn't specify belief. It is fundamentally about morality. As I posted elsewhere, I highly recommend this book for anyone why wants to understand the Hebrew Bible.

http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Hebrew ... 521176670/

And by the way, the Karaites say they will accept non-Jews, so I am very happy and I will join them within a year.
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Postby Jester » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:46 am

fschmidt wrote:I guess by "cosmology" you mean belief system. This is why I love the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), because it doesn't specify belief.


You must use the abridged version. Mine uses the word "God" a lot.

fschmidt wrote:And by the way, the Karaites say they will accept non-Jews, so I am very happy and I will join them within a year.


May you find the place you need to be, and may God find you there.
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Postby fschmidt » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:54 am

Jester wrote:You must use the abridged version. Mine uses the word "God" a lot.

Mine too, unfortunately, because in the original it is YHWH which is just a name based on the verb "to be". The Old Testament goes out of its way to avoid defining what YHWH really means in order to avoid cosmological issues.

By the way, Jester, I highly recommend you read the book I mentioned above. I know that you are Christian but it never hurts to understand another point of view, and this book really explains the original intent of the Hebrew Bible.
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Postby Jester » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:52 am

fschmidt wrote:
Jester wrote:You must use the abridged version. Mine uses the word "God" a lot.

Mine too, unfortunately, because in the original it is YHWH which is just a name based on the verb "to be". The Old Testament goes out of its way to avoid defining what YHWH really means in order to avoid cosmological issues.

By the way, Jester, I highly recommend you read the book I mentioned above. I know that you are Christian but it never hurts to understand another point of view, and this book really explains the original intent of the Hebrew Bible.


He is before we were.

He is the great "I am".

Book ordered.
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Postby C.J. » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:28 pm

I'd love to have a culture like that. It'd be easy.

1. No feminism - men are allowed to be men and women are allowed to be women. Anyone who disrupts this, trying to be a man when they're a woman for example and to manipulate others, can be exiled and thrown to the wolves. Let them be "different" out where nature can be their teacher.
2. Sound morals - members of the culture should be required to treat each other decently. FORCE is necessary for this. Anyone who clearly disrespects/hurts others, should be tried and punished by the community. It MUST be done this way. Humans are easily guided by fear.
3. Reasonable - allows reasoning and doesn't require faith (anti-reason) in supernatural beliefs. Freedom of religion? Sounds good.

But to have it with all that biblical nonsense? That limits all human ascension past a dog.
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Re: The Karaite Option

Postby theprimebait » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:18 pm

fschmidt wrote:I have been struggling for years to find a sane alternative to modern culture. Those who are satisfied with modern culture have no reason to read this post, so just stop reading and don't comment. For those not satisfied with modern culture, let's consider the requirements of a sane culture:

1. No feminism - men are allowed to be men and women are allowed to be women.
2. Sound morals - members of the culture should be required to treat each other decently.
3. Reasonable - allows reasoning and doesn't require faith (anti-reason) in supernatural beliefs.

These requirements rule out almost every culture and religion in the world today. One religion from the past that meets these requirements is the religion of the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament). And there is one religion today that claims to follow the Hebrew Bible, Karaite Judaism. Having exhausted all other options, I consider Karaite Judaism to be the last hope. So I have composed a message that I plan to post to a mailing list that includes Karaites. Here it is:

http://www.actbiblically.org/Daly-City- ... 00990.html

I would appreciate any feedback on this message before I post it.


have you seen this guys opinion on karaitism?

http://www.youtube.com/user/omedyashar/ ... ry=karaite

he has a few videos on karataism and why he doesnt agree with it.good video,altogether.
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Re: The Karaite Option

Postby fschmidt » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:39 pm

theprimebait wrote:have you seen this guys opinion on karaitism?

http://www.youtube.com/user/omedyashar/ ... ry=karaite

he has a few videos on karataism and why he doesnt agree with it.good video,altogether.

I wasn't planning to post anymore to this forum, but you seem like an intelligent poster who deserves a response.

I watched a bit of one of the videos. This guy has typical Orthodox thinking which is legalistic, not seeing the big picture. You said that you are atheist. So you can consider my viewpoint without worrying about the belief aspects. All I want is a moral religion, one that prevents people from screwing each other over. But this religion should also tolerate rational thought. Now what do you think is the best basis of such a religion? To me, the Hebrew Bible is the clear winner and is certainly much better than the Talmud. The reasoning in the Talmud reminds me of Alice in Wonderland, not very rational.
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Re: The Karaite Option

Postby theprimebait » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:57 pm

fschmidt wrote:
theprimebait wrote:have you seen this guys opinion on karaitism?

http://www.youtube.com/user/omedyashar/ ... ry=karaite

he has a few videos on karataism and why he doesnt agree with it.good video,altogether.

I wasn't planning to post anymore to this forum, but you seem like an intelligent poster who deserves a response.

I watched a bit of one of the videos. This guy has typical Orthodox thinking which is legalistic, not seeing the big picture. You said that you are atheist. So you can consider my viewpoint without worrying about the belief aspects. All I want is a moral religion, one that prevents people from screwing each other over. But this religion should also tolerate rational thought. Now what do you think is the best basis of such a religion? To me, the Hebrew Bible is the clear winner and is certainly much better than the Talmud. The reasoning in the Talmud reminds me of Alice in Wonderland, not very rational.


I actually Agree.the pharisaical Jews generally twist words to suit their viewpoints.using biblical passages wich have nothing to do with what they want it to imply etcetera

Since you're into judaism,Id recommend ''letter to my Rabbi''from a Ex-Yeshiva teacher,who refutes many talmudic ideas and opinions and general orthodox judaism.

http://www.talkreason.org/articles/letter1.cfm

its a long essay,but worth every sentence.It will give you a new outlook on Jew-daism.

shalom,chaver.
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Postby theprimebait » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:58 pm

http://www.talkreason.org/articles/letter1.cfm#oral1

The Oral Torah and the Halacha -- II

Chazal's exegesis of the Torah must be rationally analyzed
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Postby fschmidt » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:29 am

theprimebait wrote:http://www.talkreason.org/articles/letter1.cfm#oral1

The Oral Torah and the Halacha -- II

Chazal's exegesis of the Torah must be rationally analyzed

I grew up entirely secular with no knowledge of Judaism. I only found the Hebrew Bible later when I was searching for an alternative to the horrors of modern culture. So I don't need a refutation of Rabbinic Judaism since I was never a part of that, and when I looked at it recently, it didn't appeal to me very much.

I tried reading Maimonides but I find him quite repulsive. His writing style is annoying and he is very intolerant.

I recommended this book above and I think you might find it interesting:

http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Hebrew ... 521176670/

It is written by an intelligent Orthodox Jew and focuses on the Hebrew Bible without the Talmudic nonsense.

Anyway, I think you can understand why Karaite Judaism seems like the best option to me.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
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Postby theprimebait » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:31 pm

fschmidt wrote:
theprimebait wrote:http://www.talkreason.org/articles/letter1.cfm#oral1

The Oral Torah and the Halacha -- II

Chazal's exegesis of the Torah must be rationally analyzed

I grew up entirely secular with no knowledge of Judaism. I only found the Hebrew Bible later when I was searching for an alternative to the horrors of modern culture. So I don't need a refutation of Rabbinic Judaism since I was never a part of that, and when I looked at it recently, it didn't appeal to me very much.

I tried reading Maimonides but I find him quite repulsive. His writing style is annoying and he is very intolerant.

I recommended this book above and I think you might find it interesting:

http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Hebrew ... 521176670/

It is written by an intelligent Orthodox Jew and focuses on the Hebrew Bible without the Talmudic nonsense.

Anyway, I think you can understand why Karaite Judaism seems like the best option to me.


Oh Yes,indeed.if I were a Jew,I'd pick the Qaraim ,myself.

btw,I read a blog from a Karaite descendant of the Israelite high priests,he has good stuff on hasmoenan history,the pharisees,the karaites,the temple.

http://kahana.hubpages.com/hub/Of-Pries ... en-Answers

http://kahana.hubpages.com/

chk his articles on the hubpage,some really really good stuff,you won't find anywhere else on the internet.
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