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Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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Re: Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Postby Adama » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:00 pm

Winston wrote:
Adama wrote:Why do Buddhists seek Nirvana when they aren't supposed to be seeking after anything because they're supposed to remove all desire? Don't Buddhists desire nirvana? No suffering involved in the desire for nirvana?


LOL Adama, it's obvious that you haven't read any good Buddhist books. Because that question is usually addressed and mentioned in any good Buddhist book. Yeah, you are not supposed to have "desire" for nirvana either, otherwise it will block you from it. It's an oxymoron. Nirvana is supposed to be a blissful state free from desire. So you can't get in by having the "desire" to get in. lol. You are supposed to get in naturally without wanting to, they say. lol

But then again, what's the point of life without desire? Without desire, there's no joy or sorrow or any feeling at all. Without emotions, you are no longer truly alive or human. You become numb like a robot. It's another form of "Brave New World" albeit a spiritual version of it. lol



Winston, this is complete nonsense. That whole notion completely negates the entire reason for the religion then. The religion itself can't even have an objective. In order to make something an objective, you must first desire it. The only exception would be if someone could completely lack desire and obtain Nirvana without having known that such a state ever existed. That is the only way a person could reach nirvana without desiring it. Because simply abstaining from desire itself isn't a natural state of being for any man. We automatically desire things, and there is not one person who has ever been born who has not had desire.

Basically using your logic, nirvana is just a state that you would have to fall into unaware. It cannot have been a conscious choice. The conscious choice is to avoid desire, but it isn't the natural choice. The natural choice is desire, and lots of it.

After the person has decided they WANT nirvana, they have already defeated themselves. They desired nirvana, which itself must lead to suffering by other precepts of this doctrine of devils.

You can't achieve Nirvana without having first wanted it. Anything else is simply to PRETEND (even self-deception) that one's actions are not because they desire nirvana. They want nirvana, but they act as if they haven't made that decision to chase after it by losing desire for everything else. Their last and supposedly only desire is nirvana. How do we know? Because these fools supposedly have shed their desire for everything else.

Their desire to end all desire is a desire unto itself. The desire to do away with all desire is not only impossible. It is also a desire. The desire to end suffering is a desire. The desire to stop suffering to reach nirvana is desire. Desire is suffering.

Desiring nirvana however is not suffering?

You've been deceived once again, dear Winston, kind friend.
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Re: Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Postby Adama » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:09 pm

These Buddhist fools desire warm beds at night, partners to have intercourse with, delicious foods other than the bare minimum, travel, vacation, big homes, newer and nice cars.

Oh yeah, I can definitely see Buddhism is a real religion that people pay more than just lip service to (besides maybe kissing a statue or becoming a monk to do disgusting things with other monks). It is a religion with requirements that are impossible to fulfill (complete elimination of desire), and its promises are impossible to obtain for anyone who is flesh and blood. Good thing that even those who practice it must subconsciously realize it is a joke. It is impossible to eliminate desire, and the very notion that it could be done shows how spiritually void Buddhists are.

And if you listen to Stephan Molyneux, there are many pedophile, rapist Buddhist monks living today who prey on the younger, preadolescent monks!
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Re: Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Postby Winston » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:12 pm

Well as Buddhism says, their teachings are like fingers pointing to the moon. No spiritual teachings or words can ever capture the true meaning. All Eastern philosophies say this.

Adama, you need to read some good Buddhist books before jumping to conclusions and judging. Otherwise you aren't qualified to judge.

Yeah you cannot eliminate desires. But they claim you can reduce your desires and not become so attached to them, by focusing on their temporalness. In theory it may work, but in reality is a different matter.

Buddhism does help people, that's why it's popular in the West and even with Western psychologists. Meditation does have proven benefits. Science even says so.

No religion is perfect, not even yours. But each religion does have truth. You should study them the way Joseph Campbell did. He was a famous mythologist. Even though he studied religion as myth, he always said there was a lot of deep allegorical truths in them. And he appreciated them as such.

Zen meditation groups help stressed out workers in Japan, for instance.

I would take anything Stefan Molyneux says with a grain of salt. He's an extremist and is anti-family. He has said on his website that parents should have no authority over their children, a theory that would only bring chaos to families. He doesn't have traditional values and believes in anarchy. He is an extremist with warped views. He is also an Atheist who hates religion. He is not even a spiritual man.

I don't see any evidence that Buddhist monks molest children. I'd like to see some credible proof of that. Even if it happens, it's one in a million and not very common at all.
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Re: Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Postby Adama » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:36 pm

Winston wrote:Well as Buddhism says, their teachings are like fingers pointing to the moon. No spiritual teachings or words can ever capture the true meaning. All Eastern philosophies say this.

Adama, you need to read some good Buddhist books before jumping to conclusions and judging. Otherwise you aren't qualified to judge.

Yeah you cannot eliminate desires. But they claim you can reduce your desires and not become so attached to them, by focusing on their temporalness. In theory it may work, but in reality is a different matter.

Buddhism does help people, that's why it's popular in the West and even with Western psychologists. Meditation does have proven benefits. Science even says so.

No religion is perfect, not even yours. But each religion does have truth. You should study them the way Joseph Campbell did. He was a famous mythologist. Even though he studied religion as myth, he always said there was a lot of deep allegorical truths in them. And he appreciated them as such.

Zen meditation groups help stressed out workers in Japan, for instance.

I would take anything Stefan Molyneux says with a grain of salt. He's an extremist and is anti-family. He has said on his website that parents should have no authority over their children, a theory that would only bring chaos to families. He doesn't have traditional values and believes in anarchy. He is an extremist with warped views. He is also an Atheist who hates religion. He is not even a spiritual man.

I don't see any evidence that Buddhist monks molest children. I'd like to see some credible proof of that. Even if it happens, it's one in a million and not very common at all.


Buddhism is about trusting on yourself for salvation. It is self-righteousness. Your righteousness comes from yourself, and that is by abstaining from improper action or by performing proper action.

In Christianity, when you try to adhere to such a standard, it is called keeping the law. In Christianity, it is Christ that justifies, and all we must do to receive His righteousness to justify us is to believe in Him, because He paid the price for us on the cross already. Therefore we know our righteousness comes from Him. He paid the price for our sins already, past, present and future. That's why He gets all the glory. He did all the work. All we have to do is believe on Him.

So which religion is better? A religion that is based upon keeping the law, which is an impossible standard for justification? Or one that says justification comes from simply believing in Jesus, because He is God in the flesh who died for all my sins?

In one you must keep the law. In the other you simply trust in God for salvation.

One is incorrect. The other is correct.

Why don't I look into Buddhism? Because like every other Satanic doctrine, it is based on the person being their own redeemer, rather than simply trusting in Christ.
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Re: Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Postby Eric » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:16 am

Adama wrote:These Buddhist fools desire warm beds at night, partners to have intercourse with, delicious foods other than the bare minimum, travel, vacation, big homes, newer and nice cars.

And if you listen to Stephan Molyneux, there are many pedophile, rapist Buddhist monks living today who prey on the younger, preadolescent monks!


Oh. So they are just like Christians and other people then? Interesting...
Also I have to throw stones at your comment that they try to "do away with all desire". You have an obvious MISUNDERSTANDING of Buddhism's aims and goals. It's already been covered in this thread so I won't go over it, but your argument is based on a position of flawed logic - you might want to go back and look at it. Also, to be Buddhist also seems a bit (quite a bit) less repressive, if you want to use the term, than Christianity...even Judaism, with some exceptions. It's not laws, they are suggestions.
You are having emotional arguments and using emotional logic to twist and distort truth to suit your stated aims and agendas. "Oh you can't desire Nirvana? - so they've already defeated themselves" ....desire is not rooted in consciousness. The human aim to escape suffering is not rooted in desire, but consciousness; it is apart from desire. Consciousness sees desire and recognizes it. Desire does not see consciousness and it can't be the other way around, one is cognizant one is not. The two are not the same. Feeling like wanting to have sex is desire. The conscious contemplation of consciousness itself and seeing the things which arise and have effects, and an effort to become apart from this is a spiritual action/behavior, an act of will, not desire.
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Re: Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Postby Adama » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:01 pm

Eric wrote:
Adama wrote:These Buddhist fools desire warm beds at night, partners to have intercourse with, delicious foods other than the bare minimum, travel, vacation, big homes, newer and nice cars.

And if you listen to Stephan Molyneux, there are many pedophile, rapist Buddhist monks living today who prey on the younger, preadolescent monks!


Oh. So they are just like Christians and other people then? Interesting...
Also I have to throw stones at your comment that they try to "do away with all desire". You have an obvious MISUNDERSTANDING of Buddhism's aims and goals. It's already been covered in this thread so I won't go over it, but your argument is based on a position of flawed logic - you might want to go back and look at it. Also, to be Buddhist also seems a bit (quite a bit) less repressive, if you want to use the term, than Christianity...even Judaism, with some exceptions. It's not laws, they are suggestions.
You are having emotional arguments and using emotional logic to twist and distort truth to suit your stated aims and agendas. "Oh you can't desire Nirvana? - so they've already defeated themselves" ....desire is not rooted in consciousness. The human aim to escape suffering is not rooted in desire, but consciousness; it is apart from desire. Consciousness sees desire and recognizes it. Desire does not see consciousness and it can't be the other way around, one is cognizant one is not. The two are not the same. Feeling like wanting to have sex is desire. The conscious contemplation of consciousness itself and seeing the things which arise and have effects, and an effort to become apart from this is a spiritual action/behavior, an act of will, not desire.


Oh okay then. Have fun with it.
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Re: Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Postby Eric » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:38 pm

I wouldn't have fun with it. It's a desire.
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Re: Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Postby Adama » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:20 pm

Eric wrote:I wouldn't have fun with it. It's a desire.


Oh okay then. Since you don't gather the meaning, I will rephrase: Do as you like. Do as you please. If Buddhism is what you want, then I will make no attempts to stop you. Neither will I attempt to sway you. I will write my freedom of speech, however. So if you dislike my opinions on Buddhism and that offends you, then you can dismiss my opinion on that topic or any other. I am fully willing to agree to disagree with anyone. That doesn't mean I'm changing my opinion. That only means that you can believe what you want, just remember that you must also respect that I will believe what I want.
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Re: Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Postby Adama » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:23 pm

Christ doesn't even demand that anyone become a Christian. He just asks us to believe in Him for everlasting life. That's it. For Buddhism, well if you don't abstain from this or perform well for that, then you're not going to get your reward of finally extinguishing your existence. These buddhas want to be reincarnated better and better until finally they reach no further existence.

Salvation is Christianity is about believing, not about keeping the commandments. In Buddhism, you better be a good person or you won't get the goal (nirvana or extinction).
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Re: Does Buddhism make one repressed and less human?

Postby droid » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:07 am

Winston wrote:My conclusion and advice about Buddhism is that it is good in small doses, like most religions and spiritual practices are. But it does not seem like a good idea to take it to the extreme, or have it take over your whole life. This is a sensible view of life in general, not just religion.

You see, the major religions of the world, including New Age beliefs, contain nuggets of truth and wisdom. They have great lessons to learn from and symbolic motifs that contain deep truths and meanings about our human psyche. This is true of Christianity and the Bible too. But if you take these religions too literally or seriously, or follow them to the extreme, it warps your mind and life, which is not good for you. And it can make you delusional and fall out of touch with reality and others too.

Now, let me clarify, I am not advocating that one live a hedonistic lifestyle of following every desire and whim. Of course not. We all know that overindulging in alcohol, drugs, sex, eating, or any kind of carnal pleasure is bad for you. Buddhist philosophy is correct that desires cause suffering, especially if they are not fulfilled, or if one becomes addicted to them. So it is not good to be enslaved to your desires of course. But that doesn't mean that denying or abandoning desires altogether is the answer. Extremities in any form are never good. BALANCE is the key.

Balance, moderation and variety are the key

The key, I think, is to follow the age old wisdom of "everything in moderation". Taking anything to the extreme, including Buddhism or religion, is not a good thing. Ideally, you need a BALANCE in all healthy and good areas of life, having a little in each category. Examples: You need SOME spirituality, SOME desires, SOME discipline, SOME work, SOME play, SOME rest and relaxation, SOME vacation, SOME time off, SOME exercise, SOME money, SOME material things, SOME food and water, SOME fruits and vegetables in your diet, SOME protein in your diet, SOME time with friends and family, SOME time learning new things, SOME time meditating, SOME time out in nature, SOME time to yourself, etc. See what I mean?

So you see, BALANCE is the key. One needs a balance in all areas of life (including desires and spirituality) with nothing taken to the extreme or over-indulged. Doesn't that make the most sense? Isn't that the wisest and most sensible way to live?

My final lesson to you is this:

Truth does not come in a package, like fast food (which is how many religions present it). Truth is a search, a lifelong process. There are multiple layers to truth and to reality. Some layers are simple, some complex, and some beyond words. Some truth is objective at some level, and others are subjective.

It's tempting for our minds to try to find easy-to-understand answers and formulas for the nature of existence, which is what religions provide and what makes them appealing. Our minds like to keep it simple. But the universe and reality are a lot broader than you can think or imagine.

So embrace the mystery of life and the nature of reality. Revel in the magic of existence and the unknown. Remain open to all possibilities. Cultivate a mindset that is not resistant to change. Follow the truth wherever it may lead you. Do not be afraid to change or update your beliefs when truth reveals new layers to you. This, I believe, is the best approach to truth seeking. Thank you for reading.

See Also:
My Buddhism Critique
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Buddhism_Critique.htm


From my observations here in Vn i can see there are some positive aspects above other religions, i mean, if we consider religion a single major influence for a moment.

It seems it lets people carry with their lives minding their own business, no do-gooders trying to impose their bullshit on others, this contrasts with western societies that self-depict as 'individualistic', where people are detached, unfriendly, yet as a whole they're actually very collectivist.
Here instead it's supposedly a communistic 'hive-mind' Asian mentality location, but people mind and let others mind their own business, while simultaneously being friendly and social. I find it very interesting.

For example, there's a small but conspicuous percentage of gay youth of both genders, and when i ask people what they think about that, they just don't really care, they don't have an opinion, there is no controversy. They don't understand when i explain in the west some people are pushing a gay agenda and others fighting back.

Winston wrote:Combining multiple religions to get a broader view on spiritual truth

Furthermore, why limit your spiritual study and practice to only Buddhism? There are many other religions and spiritual beliefs. They all contain golden nuggets of truth and wisdom and lessons for you to learn from. A truth seeker should not neglect them. He/she should try to learn from each one, and decide what to take from them and what is relevant to their lives. Doing so makes one well rounded, eclectic, and more interesting. It also gives one a bigger and broader picture of spirituality. Why limit yourself to only one religion or spiritual tradition? If you do that, you miss out on what the others have to offer. See what I mean?


Interestingly here they combine some aspects of Hinduism with it, you see in the same pagoda figures of vishnu or ganesh side by side with buddhas. They do prayers and place incense on each. Funny to see so many swastikas too without anyone running to ban them or cover them lol.
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