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Catholics refuting Protestantism and its "saved by faith only" beliefs

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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Winston
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Re: Catholic videos refuting Protestantism and "faith alone"

Post by Winston » June 1st, 2018, 3:57 am

Cornfed wrote:
January 8th, 2016, 6:42 am
Adama wrote:
Cornfed wrote:
Adama wrote:Take note that all the TV preachers believe in salvation by works, rather than by faith. The Bible is clear: salvation is by faith alone. Just read every instance in the New Testament where it says either "faith" or "believe", you'll find that it is by faith or belief only, not by works. Jesus even says it Himself many times, Thy faith have saved thee.
Paul seems to say this, presumably as a convenient marketing ploy, but even he tries to sneak works in the back door by implying that if you had faith you would be a generally good person. Jesus and James stress the importance of works. See James 2, for example.
They are simply saying that even though you have faith, if you don't have works, then you are not working for God or your brethren. Faith without works is dead, but that sentence alone proves that faith without works is a state which exists. Read it again. Faith without works is dead, but that tells you that a condition of faith without works exists. Faith does exist without works.
The passage clearly indicates that faith without works is useless and in fact not proper faith since faith is perfected through works.
True. A salvation based on belief or faith only makes no sense. It's a popular doctrine though, because Americans are too lazy and immoral to want to be bound by having to do good works or live a moral life. They'd rather believe the idea that they are always saved no matter what they do, even if they live a life or evil and immorality. So stupid. Makes no sense.

Plus it's not Biblical either. Many Bible verses say keeping the commandments and doing good works and obeying God's will is necessary for salvation too. You can't just ignore all that just because you don't like it. So Christians like @Adama are very selfish. They can't just ignore the parts of the Bible that disagree with them, but they do.

Gabriel Ansley explains below in this 12 part seminar that the Bible teaches that Salvation is by both grace and works. A+B=C. Here it is. It's long but very interesting. I watched the whole thing. He has a strong logical case. I'm surprised Adama is in denial and prefers to cling to false doctrine. But it's not surprising since no one wants to have to live a moral life to get into heaven, hence its unpopular. That's too much work for selfish Americans. lol. Americans would rather believe that they are saved as a free gift without having to be good or do good works, because that's more attractive to them, to get something for nothing. lol. There's a saying that says that "people tend to believe what's most attractive to them, not what makes the most sense." So true.

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Re: Catholic videos refuting Protestantism and its Founders

Post by Winston » June 1st, 2018, 4:15 am

I don't get something. If the Catholic Church is wrong or evil or Satanic because it teaches false doctrines, then how do you explain the many miracles associated with it? For example the healings at Lourdes in France. Or the famous miracle of Fatima in Portugal in 1917, where 70,000 people saw the sun move and change colors and get bigger, and then the ground becoming dry suddenly? Satan can't do all that. So how to explain it? Protestants can't just play the Satan card whenever something doesn't fit into their narrow beliefs, that's imbecilic and invalid.

Here's a documentary about the Miracle of Fatima event in 1917 in Portugal, narrated by Ricardo Montalban, the man who hosted the Fantasy Island TV Series and played Khan on Star Trek II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6YYkGkQ02E

Here is a documentary about the healings in Lourdes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5FhwCbNrZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56LPgXO7PXM
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Adama
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Re: Catholic videos refuting Protestantism and their "saved by faith only" beliefs

Post by Adama » June 1st, 2018, 4:55 am

James 2 is not about salvation. It is just saying that people who are saved should do good works for the brotherhood.

@Winston, I'd be careful of using railings against people, especially since you don't know what works they do in real life.
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Re: Catholic videos refuting Protestantism and its Founders

Post by Adama » June 1st, 2018, 5:06 am

Winston wrote:
June 1st, 2018, 4:15 am
I don't get something. If the Catholic Church is wrong or evil or Satanic because it teaches false doctrines, then how do you explain the many miracles associated with it? For example the healings at Lourdes in France. Or the famous miracle of Fatima in Portugal in 1917, where 70,000 people saw the sun move and change colors and get bigger, and then the ground becoming dry suddenly? Satan can't do all that. So how to explain it? Protestants can't just play the Satan card whenever something doesn't fit into their narrow beliefs, that's imbecilic and invalid.

Here's a documentary about the Miracle of Fatima event in 1917 in Portugal, narrated by Ricardo Montalban, the man who hosted the Fantasy Island TV Series and played Khan on Star Trek II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6YYkGkQ02E

Here is a documentary about the healings in Lourdes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5FhwCbNrZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56LPgXO7PXM
Lots of people believe they've been bothered by UFOs. There are even women who think they've given birth to alien babies.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.

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Re: Catholics refuting Protestantism and its "saved by faith only" beliefs

Post by Winston » June 7th, 2018, 8:00 am

A great book exposing the Protestant Reformation and its true aims, presenting another side of the Reformation that you never heard, by a renowned Catholic author. Apparently there were materialistic, greedy and selfish aims behind the Reformation too, not just ideological or religious ones. (I got it on Kindle for 99 cents. You should all get a Kindle paperwhite device too, so you can read great books like this for cheap.)

https://www.amazon.com/Characters-Refor ... 017PS0QUS/

Image

Characters of the Reformation

In this collection of short biographies Hilaire Belloc, one of the great Catholic historians of the twentieth century, shares his views on the principal characters of the Protestant Reformation, focusing primarily on those figures concerned with the events in England. Through each account, Belloc demonstrates that the motives of the Protestant leaders were rarely religious in nature, but usually political or economic. He reminds the reader that European Christendom once viewed itself as a single united entity under the authority of the Catholic Church, each country viewing itself as a single “province” of the whole. However, many of Europe’s Princes resented the power that the Bishop of Rome held in their own lands.

The Reformation, aided by the rise of Nationalism, was a means for the nobles of Europe to shake off Papal authority and rule their territory independently. It also gave European monarchs control over the Church and all of its property in their realm, including the taxes that would normally be sent to Rome.

Therefore, the nobles grew rich by confiscating the wealth of the Church, and resisted any form of reconciliation if that meant returning the wealth to its rightful owner. In subsequent generations, the fear of this possibility gave the noble classes an incentive to remain in the Protestant camp. What’s more, the political leaders of the “Counter Reformation” were not as effective as they ought to have been, often allowing their own dynastic or nationalistic agendas to take precedence over the restoration of religious unity in Europe.

As usual, Belloc’s historical perspective offers the sort of timeless wisdom rarely duplicated in modern times.
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Re: Catholics refuting Protestantism and its "saved by faith only" beliefs

Post by Winston » June 7th, 2018, 8:50 am

More books exposing the Protestant Reformation:



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Re: Catholic videos refuting Protestantism and "faith alone"

Post by Adama » June 8th, 2018, 2:56 am

Winston wrote:
June 1st, 2018, 3:57 am
Many Bible verses say keeping the commandments and doing good works and obeying God's will is necessary for salvation too. You can't just ignore all that just because you don't like it. So Christians like @Adama are very selfish. They can't just ignore the parts of the Bible that disagree with them, but they do.
I never said a person can skip doing the commandments. A person must keep the commandments. Salvation itself is outside the commandments, because keeping the law is works, meaning the person is trying to earn their salvation by doing work. However, grace means salvation is free. Salvation can't be both by works and also free, because by trusting in their own works, a person is trying to earn something that is free, which is not possible. Grace or the free gift of salvation will not be given if the person is trusting in their own works, and the person will not be saved. It negates grace, because grace is free. Salvation is either free (by grace) or it is earned (by works). One negates the other. They cannot be combined to trust in for salvation.

Salvation is outside the commandments. Christ kept all the commandments for us. Therefore all we must do is trust in Him for salvation. And if a person has so much as broken one commandment since the day they were born, that is enough to prevent them from entering into eternal life. It is an absolute perfect standard which no mortal man can attain, only Christ, which is why God sent Him: to save the world.

Must we still keep the commandments? Yes, absolutely. Just we must realize that we will not get to heaven by trusting in our own works to keep the commandments or do good. Salvation has nothing to do with the commandments whatsoever. Salvation is entirely by faith in Christ.

Can a person repent and be saved? Yes, as long as they realize that it isn't the turning from sin and keeping the commandments that saves them - that would be trusting in their own works, which is earning the free gift. They must realize that only by trusting completely in Christ for their salvation are they saved: By Faith alone, without works.

Salvation is free to everyone that believes.
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Re: Catholics refuting Protestantism and its "saved by faith only" beliefs

Post by Adama » June 8th, 2018, 3:04 am

Also, faith does not necessarily mean the person will be doing good works. Some people want to change the definition of believe and faith to make them include works. This is confusion. Believe does not mean believe + obey. Believe means believe.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.

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