Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.



View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


The Truth Behind Islam

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Postby Mr S » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:02 pm

MrPeabody wrote:When you compare Islam objectively to other religions, Islam is probably the most peaceful religion on Earth. If over a billion people weren't overwhelmingly peaceful, we would know about it. It's strange that Islam gets pegged as the violent religion. Christianity is far more violent, but the violence is censored from public view. The public doesn't see the half million children killed in Iraq from the embargo from the West, or the drones that kill women and children, since they regularly miss their targets. Christianity is far more violent.

Also, all the ancient texts contain violence. This isn't a persuasive argument against Islam. In the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna demands that the warrior Arjuna kill his own family and relatives because it is his duty. This is considered the highest text of Hinduism. Thus, the Hare Krishnas must be the most violent of all.


You're comparing apples and oranges. Islam in of itself is the most violent ideology, it's contained in their literature. I've read the two main texts, The Koran and the Hadith, I know what's in them and have read varying commentary on them from both sides. Christianity in of itself is not a violent ideology, the New Testament has nothing of the sort in relation to violence that those two accursed texts have in them. The Old Testament has much of the violence that naysayers ramble on about, but one can also make a case against even including the old testament as being part of Christianity, there were political reasons why it was included in the Christian Bible back in the day.

You are mainly talking about individuals or organizations perpetuating or not perpetuating violence rather than the context of the religion itself and what it directs true believers to do in the name of the religion, a false dichotomy. You're not even looking at the evidence presented but rather what you would hope to see using your own cultural references of what a proper positive functioning religion should be, you are seeing things through rose colored glasses. Governments such as the USA are not killing in Iraq in the name of Christianity and forcing those there to convert to it, unlike what Islam is doing under similar circumstances. They are killing in the name of big business, money and geopolitics and everything that goes along with it, not in the name of religion itself. Just because a majority of the soldiers working in the armed forces may be Christian doesn't mean they are purposely doing whatever the American and other governments are doing in the name of religion, that's complete ignorance and insulting to military forces who are forced to take commands whether they like it or not.

The Bhagavad Gita is not supposed to be taken literally, its a symbolic text and one has to understand the context of the entire Mahabharata text and that particular situation to fully understand why Krishna is stating that. It's not just kill your family because it's your duty, get real. You don't understand it anymore than you understand true Islamic scripture. Actually, Islamic scripture is more literal than symbolic and supposed to be that way whereas much of the literature found in other mainstream religions is supposed to be taken as symbolic and not literal. The average religious worshipper does not understand this and why there is much misconstrued information about other religions across cultures.

As stated in the previous articles if you look at the entire history of what Islam has perpetuated in the name of it, it has killed far more humans than any other religion in the history of the planet. The facts can't be denied and anyone looking at them with a clear and non-biased rational can see that. Obviously, you are either playing devils advocate here just to get a rise out of people or you are just an ignorant individual that won't look at clear facts and just drinks the cool-aid of organizations that have an agenda promoting certain positive framed viewpoints of Islam while disregarding or ignoring the larger negative aspects of it. Islam is a subterfuge religious and political ideology that uses useful ignorant fools to promote it's creeping agenda while half the time sitting back and watching the show. I and many others in the world are not going to fall for the ruse anymore. As much as everyone thinks Islam is the next up and coming religion to sway over the human masses, it's not a complete religion and has many holes in it that any higher spiritual seeking individual will see through. Islam uses fear and the threat of death to maintain it's hold on current followers from looking into other religions and converting to them or even creating new religions of their own. Under Islam, it is the only permissible religion allowed and other religions are purposely wiped out or slowly attrition occurs over time from generation to generation until the competing religions are completely marginalized.

A true religion would allow anyone to convert or study other religions without being targeted for death. Only a religion that fears true competition and knows it is a lie would fear other religions. Why would the absolute truth of supreme God Allah be afraid of another religion if it was destined to be the eventual master religion of the world? It wouldn't need bloodshed and threats of death to persuade individuals to join or stay in it. It's a decrepit example of a religion and promoting itself around the world under false premises.

Just because a majority of the followers do not purposely commit violence doesn't mean they don't support it secretly. Most people are just get along go along types and only a small percentage of humanity relating to anything in this world makes things change for better or worse. So just having 10% of Islam acting out it's true form via "radical Islam" is still willfully promoting it and most Muslims do nothing to stop it. If Islam was a true religion of peace then islamic terrorism would not exist and the imams would all single out anyone who promotes that ideology, but they do not. It continues onward. Islam goes against everything that is essentially humanistic in nature. Even if it succeeded in controlling the world hundreds of years from now after fighting and converting unbelievers they will then turn on themselves and start killing Sunnis and Shias until one side is completely gone, then once again they will start killing those who hold moderate or different Islamic beliefs, it's an endless struggle of life and death, a death cult basically.

I will have no part of this mainstream media and Islamic sympathizers sugar coating the 'religion of peace'. More like 'the religion of human pieces'. It's not a religion that can survive a true awakening of human consciousness, it can only continue existing while mankind is beaten down by secular human degeneracy. It's the only reason it appears to be growing at the moment, because of the secular degeneracy that's been promoted by Globalist elites, black governments and the banking geopolitical system currently in play. However all this will change soon and Islam will have to completely reform and stay that way to survive or it will wither away over time. A true human will see it as a dead end to uniting with God or achieving true ascension and enlightenment. It doesn't and can't offer it, it's little different from a tribal religion that got extremely lucky by being in the right place at the right time to promote it rise of dominance in the Middle East at the time. Circumstances had to be just right to have it survive and grow. It's a true anomaly when looking at human history. It can't last when educated individuals can have true access to the facts and rationally understand it's true underlying intent on humanity; a degenerative subjugation of it to a medieval kind of life style and living. Another human dark age for the most part. Western Europe may go into that deep dark night, but I doubt other parts of the world will just roll over and allow their own culture and heritage to die and be wiped out by Islamic doctrine. I'm not going there, that's for sure. Not taking that trip.
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
User avatar
Mr S
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2389
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:57 am
Location: Physical Earth, 3rd Dimensional Plane





Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Postby MrPeabody » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:10 pm

Is anyone afraid that Indonesia is going to destroy America? Indonesia is the largest Islamic country in the world. Most Americans probably don't even know Indonesia exists because they don't cause any problems. When I was growing up, most people didn't know what a Muslim was. During the cold war Muslims were irrelevant. If you could go back in time to the 1950s, and told someone that Islam was the biggest world threat, he would laugh in your face.

But now that the Soviet Union is gone, the military industrial complex needs another enemy. It has been documented (University of Berkeley) that almost 1/2 billion dollars a year is earned by the Islamophobia industry putting out negative information on Islam and this is their exclusive income. The violence isn't surprising. If you want to make people violent, bomb their homes and kill their children. It's remarkable that most Muslims are still peaceful and it proves Islam is basically peaceful.

Perhaps the globalists hate Islam because Islam provides a world view of a just world with equality with charity being one of the five pillars of Islam and the prohibition of usury. It doesn't sit well with the "me first" culture.

Also, saying that the Bhagavad Gita is an analogy but the Bible and Koran aren't is a poor argument. Many Hindus do literally believe that Krishna existed and that there was a war. And maybe there was.
MrPeabody
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:53 pm

Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Postby Russian1860 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:01 am

I am not an expert in theology, but I tried to read Quran, so that to find out firsthand, what's really written there. I will share my impressions.

First of all, I must say, it is quite difficult book to read. The narrative style is very special. Actually, that is a mix of different styles: a description of some events, a preach, a moral and a debate between Allah (through his messenger Muhammad) and those people, who don't believe in Islam.

The author always jumps from one topic to another, and sometimes it's hard to get a clue of some phrases. It's almost impossible to retell the content in details, since it is a ramble compilation of multiple statements, which miss sequence. Some statements are obvious. Others are allegoric, and you have to reread them twice or thrice so that to get an idea. And still it’s not clear 100%.

I would say, a style of preach is rather aggressive. It repeats again and again, that you must believe in Allah unconditionally. Regarding hostility, I will better give you some quotations from Quran:

Surah (chapter) 3:28
“Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah, except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.”


Surah 9:5
“And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”


Surah 9:29
“Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.”


Surah 2:191 and 2:192
“And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”


That said, Quran is very controversial book and you can find quite peaceful statements towards disbelievers, which contradict the violent ones. For an instance:

Surah 2:109
“Many of the People of the Scripture wish they could turn you back to disbelief after you have believed, out of envy from themselves [even] after the truth has become clear to them. So pardon and overlook until Allah delivers His command. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.”


Surah 2:190
“Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.”


Surah 2:256
“There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.”


Surah 3:20
“So if they argue with you, say, "I have submitted myself to Allah [in Islam], and [so have] those who follow me." And say to those who were given the Scripture and [to] the unlearned, "Have you submitted yourselves?" And if they submit [in Islam], they are rightly guided; but if they turn away - then upon you is only the [duty of] notification. And Allah is Seeing of [His] servants.”


Surah 6:106 - 6:108
"Follow, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you from your Lord - there is no deity except Him - and turn away from those who associate others with Allah.
But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them.
And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do."


You see, how controversial is Quran? You can turn it whatever way you want to turn it. Those who lack intelligence and want to study Islam require a mentor to explain what is what. If your mentor is islamist, he can prove with Quran, that muslims must kill disbelievers. If your mentor is a peaceful muslim, he can prove the opposite. But I can say, that if to read Quaran literally you can find many aggressive statements, that is a fact.

Regarding Muslim moral, of course Quran contains a lot of outdated statements. Although I can't deny, it teaches virtue as well. Some examples of Muslim morality:

Surah 2:215
“They ask you, [O Muhammad], what they should spend. Say, "Whatever you spend of good is [to be] for parents and relatives and orphans and the needy and the traveler. And whatever you do of good - indeed, Allah is Knowing of it."


Surah 5:38
"[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah . And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."



Surah 4:93
"But whoever kills a believer intentionally - his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally, and Allah has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment."


Surah 15:88 and 15:89
“Do not extend your eyes toward that by which We have given enjoyment to [certain] categories of the disbelievers, and do not grieve over them. And lower your wing to the believers.
And say, "Indeed, I am the clear warner”


The bottom line:

I am neither a muslim, nor I am an expert in theology. My impressions are mixed after reading Quran. It is not an easy book to read and it contains a lot of contrariety. However I must say, that rhetoric is quite aggressive, and it does contain hostile statements towards disbelievers. It is important to understand, that muslims have to read Quran several times daily. So if your religious mentor is an islamist, and you repeat hostile statements on the daily basis, it will lead to nothing good. Probably that is a reason of why religious fanatics appear. No one can deny, that 90% of terrorists in the modern world are muslims. No one blasts himself with the words “for the sake of Jesus Christ”, whereas it is known for suicide bombers to cry “Allahu akbar”, which is translated as “God is most great”.

From the other side if to consider, that some statements in Quran are allegoric and you shouldn’t get them literally and as took for granted, then Islam could be considered as a peaceful religion. Everything depends on how you read this book. And of course it depends on your preacher, who will guide you through genuine meanings of evil and virtue. Me personally, I have met a lot of peaceful friendly, respectful and honest muslims. So I never judge a person according to his religious point of view in the first place. It would be incorrect to label the whole Islam confession as an evil religion. If it was so, then it means that at least one and a half billion of people, who are musilms are evil. It is not truth of course. I believe that most of people are peaceful. That is just a matter of understanding of virtue and life values. Some of them unfortunately chose a wrong way and perhaps the problem of Islam and Quran in particular is inconsistency, which allow people to comprehend its content in different and sometimes opposite ways.
Russian1860
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:16 pm

Previous

Return to Religion and Spirituality

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests