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Are these three Bible verses true?

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Could these three verses from the Bible be true?

Yes, the verses listed are true.
2
40%
No, of course they are not true.
3
60%
 
Total votes : 5

Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:03 am

This thread is good. All those who want to believe and be saved, will believe and be saved.

All those people who want to put stumbling blocks before their own eyes will stumble and fall.

1 Corinthians 10:12 KJV
[12]Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV
[5] Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


These verses explain why people don't want to do the easiest thing and simply believe in Jesus.

John 3:19-21
[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
[21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:12 am

Later in Matthew, when someone asked Jesus directly what he had to do to be saved and have eternal life, Matthew clearly records a salvation by works:

Matt. 19:16-21: "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."


The man was a rich man who thought he was perfect, but he was not perfect.

Because geniuses stop reading at verse 21, they only understand what they want, rather than truth. THE TEXT CONTINUES WITH:

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The man was a liar. He wasn't nearly as good as he thought he was. He was lying to himself. He didnt trust in Jesus. Jesus tells us that in verses 22 & 23. The man trusted in his riches (GREAT possessions), not in Jesus.

So that man probably isn't even in heaven, Winston, unless he later believed!

That story is the opposite of what you wanted to show. It shows how trusting in something other than Jesus, in this case Great possessions, condemns people!!!!!!! Jesus tells us how hard it is for the rich to enter heaven. The man was rich. That's what we were supposed to be learning from this. That it is hard for the rich to enter into heaven because they trust in their riches, not on the Lord. They even lie to themselves, claiming to have perfect works.

Jesus was telling that man that he was NOT perfect before God.

The unsaved truly are blinded.

Now if that man had done what Jesus had suggested, it would mean that he trusted Jesus when He said to him " If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven." That would mean that rich man believed Jesus if he had done that. But he went away sorrowful, which means he did NOT trust in Jesus or His words. He would have valued the treasure in heaven far more than he would his treasure on earth. He would have believed Jesus when He said there would be treasure in heaven.
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby cdnFA » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:14 am

I like the whole Adama approach of saying the bible is true because the bible says so. Scientology says it's true, does that mean it true? The answer is no.
The the bible was evidence for anything it wouldn't be so flawed. Quoting random lines from it proves nothing.

Winston wrote:cdnfa,
The official definition of a feminist is someone who believes in equal rights for women in all aspects of society. Are you a feminist by that definition? Do you believe that men and women are equal in every way?

Whether atheists hate God or not, they certainly hate religion, that's for sure. They even spread lies and claim that religion is responsible for all wars, etc. You can hear it in their tone when they talk about religion that they hate it and have a chip on their shoulder against it and believe it is unnecessary and does more harm than good.

They are also way too arrogant on things they know nothing about, such as completely denying the existence of the supernatural or spirit world. See the thread "The Problem with Atheists", it explains why atheism is not a logical position and why it makes too many false assumptions:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30590


Your questions on feminism cover many different areas. I think the government should be colour and gender blind. It isn't and there are very few people who identify as feminists who actually want equal rights for women. Demanding more pay for equal work, special programs and funding, not requiring women to abide by basic legal principals in rape cases [such being able to keep your story straight]. This is modern day first world feminism. It has nothing to do with equal rights. Feminism might have had something to do with gender equality in the distant past, but it doesn't now. Things change, meanings change.

Also modern feminism goes far beyond rights.
Being opposed to slutshaming unless of course women are slutshaming men in which it is OK.
Being utterly opposed to taking steps to prevent rape because "men shouldn't rape" Well I guess I shouldn't lock the doors of my house because people shouldn't B&E.
etc.

Image


Are men and women equal in every way. No, obviously not. Both genders have their strengths and weaknesses. It pretty much balances out. There is a difference between equal and same if you are looking at the totality.

Atheists don't hate religion. Aside from a few who were probably molested as children, most atheists at best just don't respect or believe in religion.
People who think astrology are not accused of hating astrology. Ditto for Scientology, homoeopathy and all sorts of other nonsense. Same deal. Just because someone points out the flaws in something or even mocks it doesn't in any way mean hate. Are there exceptions, sure I guess, I've yet to meet one though.
It just doesn't make sense. Hate is a very strong word. Most normal people don't hate positions they think are stupid and make no sense.

Some Atheists might make the claim that religion causes all wars. They would be what I would call wrong. OTOH I have a background in Military History, so I know what's what in that regard. Trump thinks he needs to beef up the US military to threaten Mexico with war. That makes him nutty, not Republicanism in general. That being said, some wars are religion based and religion isn't exactly innocent in contributing to the suck of the world.

I tried watching that Atheism video but it was laughably bad. I mean in terms of argument construction. I gave up on it a few minutes in, I really don't have time to sit through a 20 minute video. I recall something about how 2/3s of Atheists are democrats [so what] and how they tend not to respond to his initiation of force question even though they don't believe in blind faith. However the libertarian initiation of force idea [being a bad thing] which I am very familiar with has many issues which I will not begin to get into. The idea that Atheists are hypocrites because they just dismiss him is well retarded or at least a bit autistic. The world has many positions that one can take. It is unreasonable to have a solid position on all of them that one could just argue with proficiency at the drop of a hat. It is not unreasonable to rely on other people as long as you pick right and for good reason. I pretty much dismiss any claims you make for evidence because I've seen how you operate and how you think. I suppose I could every time you make a claim dive into and find out whats what, but really that would be a very nutty thing to do on my part. Also if you are a statist, the force question has a stink of wrongness. There is nothing wrong with that. However this does not suggest that one should base your life on a book that is littered with obvious errors and obvious stories of evil.
As for the thread, there was just too much fail in it. Atheism is wrong because we need to to be good and have purpose. Really? So we should base our views of reality on what we need and not the evidence? The whole Stalin and Mao thing is also a joke. For one thing communists don't have a rep for f***ing little kids. Really. Adults should not f**k little kids. Adults should also not protect those who do. Another thing, communism is just another cult that demands total obedience or else... sounds familiar if you have been reading Adama's posts. To suggest that Atheism is bad because communism is bad and communists tend to be atheists is just faulty logic. Communism is bad all in itself, it would just be as bad if it replaced atheism with Jebus. Some brands of Christianity are pretty communistic.


"They are also way too arrogant on things they know nothing about, such as completely denying the existence of the supernatural or spirit world"

Er. I have to get a bit vicious here. I am not going to take the word of a schizophrenic who thinks he healed himself on the topic of the supernatural or the spirit world.
Technically I am an agnostic. Can I absolutely disprove religion, the supernatural, or the spirit world. No. However enough charlatans have been exposed that I really couldn't be bothered believing in it. There gets to be a point where you just dismiss the nutty claims of oddballs. There are professional debunkers, I am not about to start following them in depth to try to prove you wrong because much like with Adama, it is a lost cause, it will never happen. I also find your phrase "know nothing about" to be both ironic coming from a flat earther and a bit misinformed. I suppose I could be wrong hell maybe unicorns exist but I doubt it. I think you will find that most atheists or at least the more intelligent ones are actually agnostic. After all it isn't as if you need to pass an exam to join the club.


I do find the whole idea of a creator deity even ignoring any particular religion to just seem very unlikely and presents more problems than it solves. It is also a function of humanities deep seated inability to deal with mortality and uncertainty. Seems we are moving beyond that, took us long enough.
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Moretorque » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:59 am

cdnFA wrote:I like the whole Adama approach of saying the bible is true because the bible says so. Scientology says it's true, does that mean it true? The answer is no.
The the bible was evidence for anything it wouldn't be so flawed. Quoting random lines from it proves nothing.
.



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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby The_Adventurer » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:51 pm

confer makes some decent points, but unfortunately, I have never met the atheists he speaks of. Every single atheist I have met and spoken to, and it is a lot, is very anti-religion. They absolutely hate the church, and specifically hate christianity. Interestingly, they never seem be so adamantly against any other religion. I am guessing they were raised catholic and made their escape or something.

They take the extreme stance that Jesus never existed at all, when even most major university scholars accept that there was a historical person whom these stories are all based. They do outright dismiss anything related to the supernatural, despite the available evidence, but, in this, I see a problem on both sides.

When it comes to the unexplained, no one is content to just let it be that - unexplained. That's when people start making up stories to fit or refute the evidence and both sides end up sounding pretty silly.
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Ghost » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:31 pm

Winston wrote:The truth is, Matthew, Mark and Luke teach that to get to heaven, you gotta be a good person and love God and others. Jesus even told that to someone. See the verses below.


His teachings were very logical, simple, and although Jesus didn't reveal the little details, he was explaining how Heaven works. He rewarded the faithful, but didn't say believing X, Y, Z is required to see the Kingdom of God. It's apparent that he was talking about people entering the Kingdom of God through a spiritual rebirth - you leave your animal nature behind and become spirit instead of flesh. And he was essentially telling people how God works: if you want God to forgive you, you must forgive others. No wonder that Christianity became churchianity later on - it was simple but not easy. (I blame myself too, indeed it isn't easy to forgive others who have wronged you.) It was really ahead of its time, and I suppose it always will be. Humanity is always stuck in thinking of "an eye for an eye." Jesus was showing us the best way. This is how I'm understanding so far.

It's clear that Christianity changed over time, and you can still find indicators that suggest this: the interpolated passages like you said, but there are also allusions to reincarnation (look up Origen.) My guess is that people Jesus was with initially misunderstood Him, and then people who came later did the same thing. So they changed little things or explained things incorrectly. Some of the changes were likely malicious or done to consolidate political power, hence how christianity was changed from an instrument of truth to an instrument of control and domination.
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:03 pm

If you choose salvation by works then you will be judged by your works (if you haven't already believed). You will be found lacking. Then you will be cast into the Lake of Fire. That's where people who are judged by their works go, because their works will never be good enough to satisfy God's requirements for righteousness. That's why it is much better to choose to believe in Jesus so that God can impute that unto the believer for righteousness. This eliminates the possibility of being judged by our works. It is clear that no one will be justified by their works. Paul states that clearly several times. James says this twice as far as I can remember.

Work salvation can only damn you. There is no salvation by works, which is what Christ was trying to say. It is impossible. Every religion other than Christianity believes in salvation by works. Even the Satanists believe in salvation by works. That's what it means when they say that they are each their own individual redeemers. They believe they can do it without God on their own. The people who believe in work salvation agree with them in that doctrine.

Of course Jesus wants us to treat one another as we would have others treat us. That is not a salvation doctrine, however. If you forgive someone for trespassing against you, that is not going to then force God to wipe clean your slate. You'll still be accountable because you believe justification is by works, when it is by faith. There is another time when believers will need forgiveness, that is at the Judgement Seat of Bema, at which rewards are given by the Lord. That isn't about hell. That is about how much reward or treasure in heaven we will receive.

If you forgive your brother all his sins, you'll still go to hell if you have never put your trust in Jesus. However if you forgive your brother for his sins against you and you believe, then you'll go to heaven, and then God will forgive you when the time comes. Forgiveness for particular sins for unbelievers may help somewhat, but they also have the ultimate sin of unbelief to account for, because it is belief in Jesus which covers sins, not forgiveness for others.


It should be interesting to take note that people would rather "forgive others" than simply trust and put their faith in Christ, who is God, for salvation.
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:15 pm

The_Adventurer wrote:confer makes some decent points, but unfortunately, I have never met the atheists he speaks of. Every single atheist I have met and spoken to, and it is a lot, is very anti-religion. They absolutely hate the church, and specifically hate christianity. Interestingly, they never seem be so adamantly against any other religion. I am guessing they were raised catholic and made their escape or something.

They take the extreme stance that Jesus never existed at all, when even most major university scholars accept that there was a historical person whom these stories are all based. They do outright dismiss anything related to the supernatural, despite the available evidence, but, in this, I see a problem on both sides.

When it comes to the unexplained, no one is content to just let it be that - unexplained. That's when people start making up stories to fit or refute the evidence and both sides end up sounding pretty silly.


That's because atheists know who God is. They just hate Him very deeply, so much that they become prophets of atheism, which for many people is just the religion of the hatred for God. The God of the Bible is the only one who receives such hatred. People believe in all kinds of gods. Only the real God is the target for the reprobates and sociopaths. Every other religion is tolerated and accepted by them (except for the ones the media hates, which most people will then also hate).

Now would it surprise you to know that whoever denies the divinity of Jesus Christ is also atheist? They don't believe in Jesus. Therefore they don't believe in God. That's if Jesus was real and is God. If what Jesus said is true, then anyone who doesn't believe in Him is an atheist because they are not believing in God.

Being a prophet of a false religion carries a heavier penalty than there is for regular unbelievers. Many atheists have crossed that line and will receive greater punishment, such as the blackness of darkness for eternity.
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:34 pm

Galatians 2:16 KJV
[16]Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Titus 3:5 KJV
[5]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Galatians 5:4 KJV
[4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:5 KJV
[5]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Romans 11:6K KJV
[6]And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8 KJV
[8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 KJV
[9]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:3 KJV
[3]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

1 John 5:13 KJV
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:50 am

I would say that they are true, as is the Bible and probably other religious texts. The problem is understanding what they really mean and discerning what has been corrupted by men.


I can't believe that a person could contradict himself in such a way. Both of these cannot be true. Either it is true, or it was corrupted. It is one or the other, not both.
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:53 am

There is no such thing as reincarnation, sorry:

Hebrews 9:27 KJV
[27]And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:05 am

Winston wrote:Robert Ingersoll, a critic of Christianity in the 1800's, wrote this mock dialogue called "The Talmagian Catechism" that reveals the absurdities and contradictions in the Bible. Here is the excerpt from it that addresses the discrepancies about Salvation in Matthew, Mark and Luke vs. John. The full version can be found at the link below. The fundamentalist Answerer in it sounds a lot like Adama. lol

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/talmagian_catechism.html

QUESTION. How is it that Matthew says nothing about "salvation
by faith," but simply says that God will be merciful to the
merciful, that he will forgive the forgiving, and says not one word
about the necessity of believing anything?

ANSWER. But you will remember that Mark says, in the last
chapter of his gospel, that "whoso believeth not shall be damned."

QUESTION. Do you admit that Matthew says nothing on the
subject?

ANSWER. yes, I suppose I must.

QUESTION. Is not that passage in Mark generally admitted to be
an interpolation?

ANSWER. Some biblical scholars say that it is.

QUESTION. Is that portion of the last chapter of Mark found in
the Syriac version of the Bible?

ANSWER. It is not.

QUESTION. If it was necessary to believe on Jesus Christ, in
order to be saved, how is it that Matthew failed to say so?

ANSWER. "There are more copies of the Bible printed to-day,
than of any other book in the world, and it is printed in more
languages than any other book."

QUESTION. Do you consider it necessary to be "regenerated" --
to be "born again" -- in order to be saved?

ANSWER. Certainly.

QUESTION. Did Matthew say anything on the subject of
"regeneration"?

ANSWER. No.

QUESTION. Did Mark?

ANSWER. No.

QUESTION. Did Luke?

ANSWER. No.

QUESTION. Is Saint John the only one who speaks of the
necessity of being "born again"?

ANSWER. He is.

QUESTION. Do you think that Matthew, Mark and Luke knew
anything about the necessity of "regeneration"?

ANSWER. Of course they did.

QUESTION. Why did they fail to speak of it?

ANSWER. There is no civilization without the Bible. The moment
you throw away the sacred Scriptures, you are all at sea -- you are
without an anchor and without a compass.

QUESTION. You will remember that, according to Mark, Christ
said to his disciples: "Go ye into all the world. and preach the
gospel to every creature." Did he refer to the gospel set forth by
Mark?

ANSWER. Of course he did.

.


Robert Ingersoll didn't accomplish anything with that essay, unfortunately. It's meaningless. He simply didnt want to believe in Jesus because he hates God. Simple enough.

Paul wrote of regeneration to Titus. I listed the verse in a post above. There is no contradiction in the Bible. It is just the goal of each Book is slightly different. Mark, Matthew and Luke weren't geared towards getting people saved as much as the Book of John was. The Apostle Paul also picks up where John left off. Of course lots of people hate Paul too. But Peter verifies Paul when he calls the writings of Paul the scriptures.

Naturally those who don't want to believe will not.

It is perfectly clear to me now that something is really going on with both you and Ghost who both understand that salvation is by faith alone but somehow can't bring yourselves to believe it.
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:22 am

For even more scriptures, see:
Habakkuk 2:4
Luke 8:12 Luke 7:50 Luke 8:12

John 3:(14,)15 John 3:16 John 3:36 John 5:24

John 6:35 John 7:38 John 11:25 John 11:26 John 12:46 John 16:27

Acts 2:21 Acts 5:14 Acts 8:12 Acts 8:13

Acts 8:37 (8:35-38) Acts 11:21: Acts 13:39 Acts 15:7-9 Acts 18:8 Acts 26:18

Romans 1:16 Romans 1:17 Romans 3:22 Romans 3:25 Romans 3:26 Romans 3:28 Romans 3:30 Romans 4:3 Romans 4:5 Romans 4:9 Romans 4:11 50.

Romans 4:13 Romans 4:16,17 Romans 4:18-22 Romans 5:1 Romans 5:2 Romans 4:20-25
Romans 9:30 Romans 9:32,33 Romans 10:4
Romans 10:6 Romans 10:9 Romans 10:10
Romans 10:11 Romans 10:13 Romans 10:14-17
Romans 11:20

1 Corinthians 1:21 1 Corinthians 15:2
1 Corinthians 15:17 2 Corinthians 4:4
2 Corinthians 6:14 2 Corinthians 6:15

Galatians 2:20 Galatians 3:6,7 Galatians 3:8 Galatians 3:11 Galatians 3:14 Galatians 3:22 Galatians 3:24 Galatians 3:26 Galatians 5:5

Ephesians 1:13 Ephesians 1:19

Philippians 3:9

Colossians 1:4,5 Colossians 2:12

1 Thessalonians 2:13

2 Thessalonians 1:10

James 2:5 James 2:23

1 Peter 1:5 1 Peter 1:9 1 Peter 1:18-21
1 Peter 2:7

1 John 5:1 1 John 5:4 1 John 5:5
1 John 5:10 1 John 5:13
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:05 am

1. Genesis 15:6: “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
2. Habakkuk 2:4: “Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
3. Mark 1:15: “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
4. Mark 16:16: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
5. Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
6. Luke 7:50: “And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
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Re: Are these three Bible verses true?

Postby Adama » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:08 am

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”
1 Peter 1:9: “Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.”
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