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Well, there's your problem then: you can't read. The implication is clear. And Jesus didn't correct them. I know you're a fan of mental gymnastics, Adama, but there's no way you can avoid it. The verses say what they say. Denying it doesn't help your case.
And here, folks, we have a prime example of the modern day churchian: using the Bible to try to insult people.
There are many pantheists in this world who want to pick and choose the doctrines they want to believe from each religion. They believe all religions are valid. There is only one valid religion because there is only one God and He says there is only one way to eternal life, and that is through belief in His Son Jesus Christ. Now if the Lord Himself says that the people who reject His Word lack wisdom, then who is anybody on this earth to disagree with that? The Word of the Lord stands on a solid rock. If God says people who reject His Word lack wisdom, then they lack wisdom. And what kind of person disrespects the Word of God without guilt?
Now if that is you, then accept it and move on. In other words, if the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't fit, meaning if you have not rejected the Word of the Lord, then of course that doesn't apply to you. The verse only applies to those who have rejected the Word of God. So if you feel insulted, chances are you are guilty of rejecting the Lord. Otherwise you would not feel insulted.
I do believe in the assembling together of the believers, but good thing that salvation is not from works, because if they were, I would be in trouble because of my church attendance record.
Are you trying to convert people? I am not sure how you expect that work if you are completely unable to see the point of view of an "outside".
Imagine for a moment you are speaking to someone who doesn't have the knowledge of the word that you do. You say, "There is only one valid religion because there is only one God.."
But the god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the god of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. To say nothing of the other minor religions based on the same god, or even the pagan religions which still include or incorporate this god. How do you get that person to see one as more valid than the other? Christianity speaks of salvation through faith in Jesus, but the Quran specifically says that if you make Jesus anything more than a man you're burning in hell. Drop the new testament and you have Judaism, with chosen people and what not.
Now you even have cults which make God and the angels into aliens complete with spaceships and the whole nine.
In this modern world, someone can open up a web browser and have instant access to all the information they could ever want about every religion on the planet. How, then, do you get this person to realise there is only one right way?
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
By threatening that they'll burn in hell if they don't believe your way?
But seriously, I've noticed that whenever someone is invoking God against others (because the others don't believe the "right" way) that the person is really just invoking his own ego. So when Adama says God's going to burn others in hell, what he's saying is he wants us to burn in hell. He's even said words to that effect - that he hopes others will burn in hell. Quite contrary to the idea of wanting to "save souls" and "win people for the kingdom." At the very least, you'd think his perspective would be one of seeing it as tragic, but he takes glee in it. And so I remember that when psychopaths invoke God, they are really just invoking their own ego.
Let's suppose Jesus was right when He said that the only way to God is through Him. What then is going to happen to all the people who believe they are worshiping God, but truly are not because they don't have Jesus? Unfortunately, those people will still go to hell. If you don't have the Son, you don't have the Father. There is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. There is only one mediator between God and men, and that is Christ Jesus, Our Lord.
Islam emphasizes a work salvation, just like every other false religion there is. You know you have the true religion when the emphasis is on trusting the Lord rather than trusting in the righteousness of our own works. Our own works will never be righteous enough to satisfy God's requirements for righteousness. That's why it is just easier to believe in Jesus. Then God will impute righteousness unto us simply for believing. That is a simplicity which no other religion has. Yet probably the vast majority of the people who hear it or read it will refuse to believe it and be saved.
Now if someone refuses to believe, that is their problem. I loved them enough to show them the truth.
However, when someone starts arguing against the Word of God, when someone starts arguing against the Biblical plan of salvation, when someone becomes a prophet of a false religion or atheism AND that person hates God, I believe the penalty for that is much greater than simply dying in unbelief.
Many Islamics will have a hard time getting saved because, like your post above, they have been inoculated against the true gospel. When you tell someone that Jesus is no more than simply a prophet, or that God never had a son, or that Jesus and God are not one, then if that person believes that, it will be almost impossible for them to overcome it. That is on them, not me.
Unfortunately for the Jews, God no longer counts them as His people. The Bible in the NT tells us specifically that Judaism is the Synagogue of Satan. It has nothing to do with God. It is the Talmud. They do not know the first five books of the Bible (Books of Moses). Jesus told us that if they had believed Moses they would therefore believe Christ. That would make them Christians.
However, anyone who is willing to believe (and who can believe) will be saved. It doesn't matter what religion they were before.
One Catholic woman asked me if you can be born again and be Catholic. Technically you can, because you can run, hop, skip and jump and be saved. You can be a fornicator and be saved. However, God will probably punish you if you are doing things outside of His law, that includes such things as bowing to and kissing statutes (most Catholics may not do that, but the Pope does); praying to persons other than the Lord, such as dead people, saints (real or made up) and Mary; repeating the same prayer over and over again in a vain repetition, such as Hail Mary and Our Father; and other similar things.
Last edited by Adama on May 2nd, 2016, 7:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
This is Paul saying he didn't want to discuss their false beliefs but only The Lord:
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
So no, the outside perspective isn't required. Just ask the Apostle Paul. Those who want to believe, will believe. Those who don't want to believe, will not believe. It is simple.
And the Adventurer, I highly doubt that anyone who has read any one of these pages will receive as clear and as detailed an explanation on the plan of salvation as has been posted here. That is I doubt that ever again in life will someone sit down and spell all these things out for anyone who visits this forum. Only because most soul winning is done in person and over 10 minutes and with only a few verses shown, and many people get saved that way. I have posted dozens of verses here. That's much more than the average person gets in one showing or maybe even 10. But most people may not even get 10 presentations of the gospel in their lifetimes.
Also, at some point when someone has heard a clear presentation and rejected it, God can and does sometimes get frustrated enough that He will send them a strong delusion so that they will believe a lie (such as a false religion). Who knows how many of the people who refuse to believe have simply gone too far in rejecting God's word? That's why I say if you want to get saved, the time is now. And if you are speaking up against God's word, you better hope He isn't real.
John 3:18 KJV
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jude 1:5 KJV**
 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Those who don't believe are going to hell, if they have not believed at some point in the past. That's what God said. That is not what Adama said. Adama is quoting the Words of The Lord.
You may think you are arguing against me, but think about it. If I post the truth from God's Word, and you think you are merely arguing against me, if I am right, then you are still in trouble. Your hatred for me is irrelevant. Just because you want to believe in something which doesn't fit Christianity and I am telling you that you're very wrong. I take no pleasure in it. I would not be posting here if I wanted to see others go to hell. In fact, the opposite it true. However, it is your choice for you to be an unbeliever. And God Himself already told us that unbelievers will all go to hell. Besides that, even if I wanted someone to go to hell, I am not God. I can't send them to hell. So what I think about a person personally is irrelevant. Also, if I were to give a false gospel to a person then I would be accountable to God. All those who don't believe in God can't see what a crime it is to give someone a false gospel, but that is a serious crime, and the penalty is the blackness of darkness forever for some of the unsaved prophets. And even for the believing pastor, he is under a serious obligation (but he will also have a greater reward in heaven as long as he isn't preaching in favor of sin and he is blameless).
Also, that is quite an accusation to make, but it also shows the type of person making it. The English here is as plain as daylight. Any other verse, say on reincarnation that doesn't even say anything about reincarnation will be believed. Any verse on salvation will be disbelieved. That tells me that the person is blinded.
Also, if people don't want to read this doctrine, or they do not want to believe in this way, why must there be contention and arguments on the topic? A person can always start his own thread about the verses in the Bible which he believes supports his eastern doctrines. People always blame the Christians. How about the people who want to contend with Christians? Go away and be at peace with your religion of reincarnation, in another thread. Don't blame me if I argue against it here on this thread. If you want to assault God's Word, well there's plenty of places for you to try to mix it with Buddhism. But don't be angry at me if I make a thread about getting saved and eternal life by believing on Jesus, and then you try to make it about something about reincarnation and other eastern philosophies (although you claim you don't subscribe to them, ironically).
Go in peace. Practice your form of unbelieving "Christianity" without Christ, but with the pantheist eastern philosophies. I will not post in your religious thread on that topic. Go in peace.
You don't have to sit here and go back and forth and insist upon being right. You can always go in peace. There is nothing stopping you here. Nor am I compelling you to stay here to post your eastern doctrines in this thread. Make your own, and stop complaining.
Then they need to go back and read all of the salvation verses which I have posted, along with my explanation at the bottom of the opening post. They should read it until they understand it. Once they understand it, they will know, and I won't have to explain anything to them again. After that, the gift of the Holy Ghost will be given to them by God. The Holy Ghost is He who will do all interpretation of truth for the believer. Believe then the gift of understanding is granted. Truth is revealed. But never before then, because faith is required first.
Men like him just like to revel in their belief that no matter how awful their lives are right now, they're winning later. Schadenfreude is hardly virtuous.
Ouch. I'm personally offended by both of your comments. I am not complaining. I am informing you. Since you are both fellow Christians, also known as brothers, you should know not to proceed in this manner against me. I am your brother, not your enemy.
You should re-think this. I see something deeper here which I will explain to you now.
Do you not expect to be winning later, doctor? I mean, isn't that what going to heaven is all about? Isn't that why Jesus loved the poor so much? Isn't that why the poor will inherit the kingdom? Isn't that what the story of Lazarus and the Rich man is about?
Basically you are saying that you have lots of riches now, and that my life sucks now, and that my only hope is to have riches in heaven later.
TO THAT I SAY AMEN!
I'd rather have my awful life now than have my awful life in the after life. Who in the world would want to have a great life now only to suffer hell? Isn't it better to suffer the awful now and then to go to heaven?
I would hate to have much wealth and riches now, only to go to hell. What is it that Jesus said?
Matthew 16:25 KJV For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Matthew 16:26 KJV For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Matthew 19:23 KJV Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Proverbs 30:8 KJV Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
Proverbs 30:9 KJV Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.
But here I go yet again, invoking the Word of God against you. Yet here you return each time.
Last edited by Adama on May 2nd, 2016, 9:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I know enough to know that no one is good enough to pass through the gates of heaven, and it is by the grace of God we are saved. Your words tend to reek of self-righteousness, aggrandizing yourself and your knowledge. That is not, in my opinion, the way to go about things. I do good works. If it ever comes up, I let people know I am Christian, and that I do good in the name of Jesus and follow his example, albeit poorly. You sell salvation through fear rather than through hope, and that is not something by which I can abide.