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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:16 pm

Ghost wrote:You never answered what happened with the people who existed before the Israelites, or peoples separated by vast distances.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:32 pm

Adama wrote:Believe me, if you went to Africa or India today, you will find that they've all heard of Jesus. There are missionaries going out to every place. And just has God is sending out missionaries to far flung places on the earth today...
[size=150]


Again, what about people who came before the Israelites or were separated by vast distances? You keep avoiding the question because you know missionaries couldn't have possibly covered all of humanity. (Unless...were the Israelites time travelers? Were they also able to sail the Atlantic and missionary to ancient peoples of the Americas?)

The Buddhists, the Hindus, the Islamics are billions of people who know about Jesus. They just don't want to believe that God can have a son, or whatever other lie they choose to believe rather than accepting the gospel. Same as thousands of years ago. They heard. They just rejected it, which is partially how they became Buddhists, Hindus and Islamics.

Yup. Exactly. But others would rather rely upon fiction, such as "archaeological evidence" or the lies of " his story" (which even Napoleon admitted are nothing but lies that the writers each agree on) in order for them to believe that God also loved the heathen.


This is so incredibly stupid that if I heard it in real life I'd be speechless. Let me guess, you think God put dinosaur bones in the ground to test our faith too? And humans have the genetic code for tails because God is testing us too?

You believe everyone else is going to hell. I believe you're already there: stupidity is a hell unto itself.

There is no virtue in being irrational.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:30 pm

Wait a minute. If I've got this right, Adama thinks Jews are going to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. But he thinks certain Jews in the Old Testament are going to heaven because they believed God. But so did those other Jews, did they not? So why the discrepancy? (I know, I'm a "reprobate" because I use logic.) If you believe Jews are going to heaven, correct me if I'm wrong.

One must believe in Jesus in order to get to heaven, but there are people who are going to heaven who lived before Jesus' time according to Adama.

I'm still just trying to figure out what you believe and what you don't believe. I'm seeing the start of a great argument for why God is universal (as opposed to living in Adama's box), although I doubt Adama sees it.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby MarcosZeitola » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:19 am

There's extremists in any religion. I have known a lot of reasonable Catholics and members of various Protestant churches who do not take everything in the Bible at face value, who have a mind of their own and who are critical of some aspects of their faith. These people will never tell you you are going to hell for not believing 100% of what is written in the Bible is factual.

Some people need that. They need to follow rules, obey commandments, believe Dogma and never ever question it. These are the type of people who, as a kid, would always follow what the teacher said. Their pastor or priest would tell them to jump off a cliff, and they would promptly jump. Their religious leader would tell them to give away their money to the church, and they would do it.

In the Philippines you have a sect called Iglesia ni Cristo. At least 10% of the members' monthly income must be given to the Church. If you fail to do so, other church members will judge you... "is this how little you care about our Lord?" they will say. Expulsion is a next step. Their leaders, meanwhile, the prominent Manalo family, flies around the globe in private jets and lives lavishly...

Blind belief leads to corruption of a man's mind, body and soul. It kills any ability he has to be a truly original thinker. It imprisons his mind, and makes him rather insufferable to be around. For this reason, I try to avoid discussing matters of faith with such zombies. It saves me a lot of headache. Give me an open-minded Christian, Jew or Muslim any day of the week over a blind believer, whatever it is this blind believer may believe in.

If in order to avoid going to Hell, I would have to give up my own personality and my ability of critical thinking completely, then Hell it is. After all, the "me" that would go to Heaven would not really be me anymore. It would be a zombie-fied me.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:50 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:There's extremists in any religion. I have known a lot of reasonable Catholics and members of various Protestant churches who do not take everything in the Bible at face value, who have a mind of their own and who are critical of some aspects of their faith. These people will never tell you you are going to hell for not believing 100% of what is written in the Bible is factual.

Some people need that. They need to follow rules, obey commandments, believe Dogma and never ever question it. These are the type of people who, as a kid, would always follow what the teacher said. Their pastor or priest would tell them to jump off a cliff, and they would promptly jump. Their religious leader would tell them to give away their money to the church, and they would do it.

In the Philippines you have a sect called Iglesia ni Cristo. At least 10% of the members' monthly income must be given to the Church. If you fail to do so, other church members will judge you... "is this how little you care about our Lord?" they will say. Expulsion is a next step. Their leaders, meanwhile, the prominent Manalo family, flies around the globe in private jets and lives lavishly...

Blind belief leads to corruption of a man's mind, body and soul. It kills any ability he has to be a truly original thinker. It imprisons his mind, and makes him rather insufferable to be around. For this reason, I try to avoid discussing matters of faith with such zombies. It saves me a lot of headache. Give me an open-minded Christian, Jew or Muslim any day of the week over a blind believer, whatever it is this blind believer may believe in.

If in order to avoid going to Hell, I would have to give up my own personality and my ability of critical thinking completely, then Hell it is. After all, the "me" that would go to Heaven would not really be me anymore. It would be a zombie-fied me.


God is clear. If you die without ever having believed in Jesus, you will burn in hell for eternity without exception.

Do I seem like a zombie? I am not a zombie. That's just an over exaggeration, Marcos. You will, however, be unable to commit some abominable sin. Even then though, most people would not know you are a believer unless you opened your mouth to tell them.

I have a friend from high school who literally wrote the same thing to me the other day that you just wrote. I love the guy but I realize he simply hates God and it's probably too late for him. I told him, if God wants you to become a robot (which is what he called it rather than being a zombie), then you better become that robot, because the alternative is eternal punishment. My high school friend says first you must believe hell exists. I didn't write back to him after that, because I don't like being argumenative with my friends, but I would say to anyone like that : Just because you don't believe hell exists, it doesn't erase its existence. When you die, it will be too late to go back and wish you had believed. It will be over, and you will burn in a literal lake of fire for eternity. And it isn't only fire, but hunger, thirst, eaten by insects, bitten by serpents and possibly even drowning in the lake of fire and perpetual darkness and blackness.

If God wants me to become a robot or a zombie, I would be happy. Ironically though, those zombies you speak of actually do not have life. God promises that we will have life more abundantly in heaven. This place where we are now is just a small blip on the radar compared to eternity. This life isn't even what we were created for. This is the pit stop before we go to where we were really supposed to go. That's why we shouldnt fall in love too deeply with this life or this world. We are just visitors in a transitional phase before eternity.

It is just a matter of do you want to spend eternity in perpetual joy, peace and glory with Jesus? Or do you want to burn with sulfur for eternity with everyone else who thought they were wise without God. The choice is yours.

As for your relatives and friends, of course they are practicing but they too are unbelievers. No believer would say it is okay to die without having believed. The scripture is clear. That's why. They don't believe scripture therefore they are unbelievers. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. They don't believe the Word, they don't believe Jesus. And if they don't warn people about hell it also means they don't love unbelievers.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby retiredfrank » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:52 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:If in order to avoid going to Hell, I would have to give up my own personality and my ability of critical thinking completely, then Hell it is. After all, the "me" that would go to Heaven would not really be me anymore. It would be a zombie-fied me.


You haven't been paying attention to Adama. All you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior, and then you do whatever you want. Lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, kill, fulminate and daydream about people like Ghost burning forever in the fires of hell and receiving no mercy because, like Lazarus, they failed to believe when they were alive, etc. Jesus died for your sins, so you can sin all you want, then ask God for forgiveness and he will grant it, IF YOU BELIEVE, because God is all merciful, and the only thing that matters is faith, works count for nothing.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:26 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:
In the Philippines you have a sect called Iglesia ni Cristo. At least 10% of the members' monthly income must be given to the Church. If you fail to do so, other church members will judge you... "is this how little you care about our Lord?" they will say. Expulsion is a next step. Their leaders, meanwhile, the prominent Manalo family, flies around the globe in private jets and lives lavishly...


I have been trying to inform others here. Catholicism is not Christianity. It is more like the cult of Mary. Even though Mary was only mentioned 19 times in the Bible somehow Catholics come away that Mary is the mother of God, when God is eternal, and that she is worthy of praise and worship. This is imported from eastern religion. They are the ones who worship women, dragons, cows, snakes, monkeys and elephants. Catholics are about Mary and dead saints. They have no faith in Jesus. They also believe in sacraments which also has nothing to do with Jesus. Also they have a Pope, which is another term for Father, and Jesus warned us that no spiritual leader should be called Father, Rabbi or Master, because that is too high of a title. I could go on with the many unChristian things that Catholics do which are directly warned against by God.

Believers have the Holy Ghost and will not be misled into a cult. The Holy Ghost is the interpreter in the souls of men who believe. He tells us the truth of the Bible. Jesus said that His sheep follow Him and know His voice and that they will not follow a stranger.

Just as we give thanks before eating, we should also give 10% to God. However, when I go to church, donations are more or less anonymous. And if they did know how much I didn't give there wouldn't be judgment. That is between the person and God. It really isn't anyone else's business whatsoever.

The point of all this is, you shouldn't judge Christians by the unsaved versions you see around you. They think they are God's children but most are not (because to be a child of God you must believe in Jesus, not Mary, not saints, not sacraments). They have been led astray by doctrines of demons into heresy which puts them on the path to hell. So essentially they are the same as unbelievers, except they just think they are saved. That's why they put their emphasis on the wrong things. They haven't got a clue what's really important, such as warning people that hell exists and that they need to believe in Jesus to avoid hell. That's something to be concerned about. But because they are not saved, or because they are saved and have no love for the lost, they don't warn anybody, which means they do not know what is important in life. Heaven and hell are the most important things a person should know, specifically how to avoid hell.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:33 am

retiredfrank wrote:
MarcosZeitola wrote:If in order to avoid going to Hell, I would have to give up my own personality and my ability of critical thinking completely, then Hell it is. After all, the "me" that would go to Heaven would not really be me anymore. It would be a zombie-fied me.


You haven't been paying attention to Adama. All you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior, and then you do whatever you want. Lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, kill, fulminate and daydream about people like Ghost burning forever in the fires of hell and receiving no mercy because, like Lazarus, they failed to believe when they were alive, etc. Jesus died for your sins, so you can sin all you want, then ask God for forgiveness and he will grant it, IF YOU BELIEVE, because God is all merciful, and the only thing that matters is faith, works count for nothing.


You almost got it right. All you have to do is believe. However, your heart will convict you for lying, cheating and stealing. And if you believed in the Power of God, you would know that He would bring it around so that you would have some earthy chastisement. You can't get away wtih breaking the commandments like that. But since you don't believe in the power of God and that Jesus really did die for ALL of our sins, you think belief is simply a license to sin. It is not. There will be consequences the person doesn't like. God promised not to send us to hell once we believe. He is not a liar.

Unbelievers will burn in hell forever. Reprobates who can't believe are truly in a very bad situation. I'm glad I am saved. I wouldn't want to be a reprobate. Too bad.

Faith is what is counted for righteousness. From Seth, to Abraham all the way to today. The Bible is clear. I have posted many verses which prove that. You don't believe them, that's your choice.

Why do you bother if this bothers you? Read a different thread.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby retiredfrank » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:00 pm

Doesn't bother me. Interests me. Not your beliefs, which are just idle words, but rather the personality of a man who holds such beliefs. In particular, I'm curious to see what happens with you and women and sex in the years to come, which is the main focus of this forum. But I'll stop trolling you for now.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:34 pm

Do I seem like a zombie?


Yes.

God is clear. If you die without ever having believed in Jesus, you will burn in hell for eternity without exception.


Except before Jesus came to earth, meaning most of humanity didn't know about Him. Which brings me back to this: how then can anyone say that what we do doesn't matter? Was not the Old Testament about God telling humanity what to DO to build a moral society? (Also, as far as I know, the Israelites didn't have hell. That was added later from Christianity. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) Also, as far as I know, God in the OT was not concerned with belief, but action. When Jesus came, he gave humanity moral teachings. Why do you say it doesn't matter? He rewarded faith, but his teachings were about what to do (forgive and be forgiven, repentance (change of heart), etc.) You claim to have a Christian belief system, but your belief system negates most of the Bible.

The fact of you, Adama, is that you're a miserable man who becomes joyful at the suffering of others. You want others to bow to you (your religion reflects you, not God) out of fear. I and others have tried to reason with you, but you reject it every time.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:36 pm

Ghost wrote:You never answered what happened with the people who existed before the Israelites, or peoples separated by vast distances.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Yohan » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:13 pm

Adama wrote:The Bible is clear. I have posted many verses which prove that.


To prove means to show up with additional independent evidence, but you cannot.

The problem with the bible is that jesus likely never existed in reality. Might be well a product out of fantasy.
Even if he/she did exist or not, what he/she did or did not remains unclear. We do not know if there was none, one or several Jesuses.

Except the Bible itself, there is no other evidence for anything. As a fact we know nothing. Zero proof.

I consider the bible/jesus as a dying religion. It's outdated. It's similar to all other religions which existed before - nobody believes anymore in the religion of the old Egyptians, of gods of the Greek and Romans. They disappeared. The next religion which will disappear from this world is likely Christianity.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Yohan » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:29 pm

MarcosZeitola wrote:Their religious leader would tell them to give away their money to the church, and they would do it.

In the Philippines you have a sect called Iglesia ni Cristo. At least 10% of the members' monthly income must be given to the Church. If you fail to do so, other church members will judge you... "is this how little you care about our Lord?" they will say. Expulsion is a next step. Their leaders, meanwhile, the prominent Manalo family, flies around the globe in private jets and lives lavishly...


How is this different to any other religion? Christianity or Buddhism or any religion/cult?

Religion obviously requires a lot of money to operate successfully.

Here in Japan there is the powerful Nichiren Buddhism with its organizations, Soka Gakkai as administrator and also Komeito as political party.

However it seems they use the money in intelligent way, mostly buying land, entire buildings, constructing universities.
Don't ask me how much money these members give to Buddhism, but much more than 10 percent....

The same is with the US-based LDS-temples here in Japan, a 65-meter high temple tower in central Tokyo, this costs really money.

We have also the Happy Science religion, check out their buildings...

Of course, Christians are nothing better or worse, including Catholics. The Vatican is rich too, it was involved in many strange banking transaction with mafia connections.

About Islam, check out the life of a typical rich Saudi, Brunei etc. playboy...Your own words - flies around the globe in private jets and lives lavishly...

All religions are made by humans, who were looking for their own wallet or otherwise advantages of course.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Yohan » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:00 pm

Ghost wrote:One must believe in Jesus in order to get to heaven, but there are people who are going to heaven who lived before Jesus' time according to Adama.

I'm still just trying to figure out what you believe and what you don't believe...


For this you have to create an ADAMA profile:

As a fact we know nothing about him.

As all other religious bigots ADAMA picks out which fits him in his personal agenda, and rejects what he does not like even to hear or to read... Also like many other bigots he operates typically his belief out of fear. You don't believe me, go to hell...

However ADAMA is something unique, as he is a lonely savior, not in a group, not a cult member. Likely single, no family, no idea what job he is doing. He remains in hiding somewhere in USA.

In general, cult members go out and are not into anonymity. He is likely somebody who is rather short of money. Maybe he is on the best way to create a 'new religion'?
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:02 pm

retiredfrank wrote:Doesn't bother me. Interests me. Not your beliefs, which are just idle words, but rather the personality of a man who holds such beliefs. In particular, I'm curious to see what happens with you and women and sex in the years to come, which is the main focus of this forum. But I'll stop trolling you for now.


Idle word? You know, I was thinking about what you wrote above. That lying, cheating and stealing is okay. Does this mean that you are without sin? It seems that somehow you accept that sinning means going to hell. The thing that most atheists don't get is that it is impossible to not sin. It isn't just a matter of abstaining from lying, cheating and stealing. Even foolish thoughts are counted as sin by God. So just thinking of foolishness is sin.

But also, unfortunately it is hypocrisy, because those people who would accuse others of lying, cheating and stealing are often guilty of the same crimes against God or worse, such as fornication or adultery.

You see no one is sinless in this life. No one. The only sinless person there ever was is God in the flesh; Our Lord Jesus Christ, the redeemer and Saviour. That's why we must trust on Him so He can give us His righteousness.

You think you can keep from sin on your own. That means you only deceive yourself. Those who think being sinless will justify them will find out in the end that they are damned.
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