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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:12 am

Adama wrote:In any case, the Word of God, even in the OT, went throughout all the world. Just as God is sending out missionaries today, He was also sending them out back then. So when these people's ancestors rejected the Word of God which they received in history, they prevented their own descendants from getting saved. Once they rejected it, strong deceptions of Satan moved in, such as their false works based religions based upon karma.


So you're saying Israelites went out as missionaries to the entire world thousands of years ago to tell people about God? And what about people that preceded the Israelites?

Stuff like this is why I wonder if you're not some troll masquerading as a fundy.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:38 am

Adama wrote:No, you've just proven that you're incapable of believing, sadly. You don't even seek understanding, having known my stance all along, yet bringing me here only to insult me.


I wanted sensible answers, but I didn't get them.

Also, I have no aversion to doing good. Either you didn't read the verses or you didn't understand where it says the penalty for sins on this earth is earthly chastisement and possible sudden destruction. That is certainly not refusing to do good. Nowhere is the Ten Commandments nullified.


I'm sure you personally don't have any aversion to doing good. And good thing too - because apparently your belief system gives you free reign to commit any evil act you wish without any penalty.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:41 am

Adama wrote:I think of it this way. If the Bible is a metaphor, as you say, then if I think it is real, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because in reality is is only a metaphor. So if I believe the Bible was real instead of a metaphor, I have lost nothing.

However, if the Bible is real, yet I only think of it as a metaphor, then I will be in some serious trouble. If it is real and but I refused to believe it was real, preferring to only believe that it is a metaphor, then I will be in trouble, because it's actually true.

But if it's just a metaphor and I think it is real, I will not be in trouble because it's not real to begin with. There's no one to answer to if it's a metaphor, but if it is real, then you better bet there is someone to answer to.


Being a metaphor does not mean it isn't real. Metaphors are not lies or deceptions.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Yohan » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:56 am

Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:No, you've just proven that you're incapable of believing, sadly. You don't even seek understanding, having known my stance all along, yet bringing me here only to insult me.

I wanted sensible answers, but I didn't get them.


Adama cannot give you any answer about something he does not know himself.

If clear questions are asked, Adama gets evasive, claiming he feels insulted. This is 'feminist argumentation' or 'feminist shaming language'.

I asked Adama various questions, but never got a reasonable reply. I think he is a misguided religious bigot of any US-based Christianity related cult, he is an outsider but not a troll.

He claims for example that Catholics are no Christians. I never heard something like that before.

I often wonder why he is writing comments in this forum...
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:18 am

Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:In any case, the Word of God, even in the OT, went throughout all the world. Just as God is sending out missionaries today, He was also sending them out back then. So when these people's ancestors rejected the Word of God which they received in history, they prevented their own descendants from getting saved. Once they rejected it, strong deceptions of Satan moved in, such as their false works based religions based upon karma.


So you're saying Israelites went out as missionaries to the entire world thousands of years ago to tell people about God? And what about people that preceded the Israelites?

Stuff like this is why I wonder if you're not some troll masquerading as a fundy.


I don't know why you find the concept of God sending messengers to spread His Word as hard to believe. You don't want to believe that, that's on you. I've written the answer. That is what it is. You don't have to like it, but that's what the answer is.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:21 am

Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:I think of it this way. If the Bible is a metaphor, as you say, then if I think it is real, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because in reality is is only a metaphor. So if I believe the Bible was real instead of a metaphor, I have lost nothing.

However, if the Bible is real, yet I only think of it as a metaphor, then I will be in some serious trouble. If it is real and but I refused to believe it was real, preferring to only believe that it is a metaphor, then I will be in trouble, because it's actually true.

But if it's just a metaphor and I think it is real, I will not be in trouble because it's not real to begin with. There's no one to answer to if it's a metaphor, but if it is real, then you better bet there is someone to answer to.


Being a metaphor does not mean it isn't real. Metaphors are not lies or deceptions.


Well then you can believe the Bible is a metaphor. I believe the Bible literally. That's on you. My point is, if it is literal, but people only take it as a metaphor, then they will be in trouble for not having taken it seriously. That's on them. I'd rather be safe, than miss the mark and only realize it after it's too late. Once it's too late, it's too late. A person can't go back after death to tell the Lord he wishes he could go back to believe. That's the point of the story of Lazarus and the rich man in hell. You can't go back. While you're alive, you have some time. After you're dead, then it is too late to take God seriously. God is not a metaphor. Neither is His Word. But if anyone wants to believe that, they don't need to argue with me. Believe what you want. ;)
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:23 am

Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:No, you've just proven that you're incapable of believing, sadly. You don't even seek understanding, having known my stance all along, yet bringing me here only to insult me.


I wanted sensible answers, but I didn't get them.

Also, I have no aversion to doing good. Either you didn't read the verses or you didn't understand where it says the penalty for sins on this earth is earthly chastisement and possible sudden destruction. That is certainly not refusing to do good. Nowhere is the Ten Commandments nullified.


I'm sure you personally don't have any aversion to doing good. And good thing too - because apparently your belief system gives you free reign to commit any evil act you wish without any penalty.


I answered you from the Bible. You just don't like the answers, which is fine, because you are not obligated to like the answers. However, you would think that you could be courteous to a person who you're asking to patiently answer your questions, rather than issuing every insult and railing accusation. You can do as you wish though.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:33 am

Yohan wrote:
Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:No, you've just proven that you're incapable of believing, sadly. You don't even seek understanding, having known my stance all along, yet bringing me here only to insult me.

I wanted sensible answers, but I didn't get them.


Adama cannot give you any answer about something he does not know himself.

If clear questions are asked, Adama gets evasive, claiming he feels insulted. This is 'feminist argumentation' or 'feminist shaming language'.

I asked Adama various questions, but never got a reasonable reply. I think he is a misguided religious bigot of any US-based Christianity related cult, he is an outsider but not a troll.

He claims for example that Catholics are no Christians. I never heard something like that before.

I often wonder why he is writing comments in this forum...


Catholics are not Christians, neither is the Catholic church Christian. It is paganism blatantly; from praying to Mary and the saints rather than to God, complete with statues of idolatry everywhere, sacraments for salvation rather than belief in Jesus, calling their Pastors Father which Jesus specifically told us not to do, praying in vain repetitions which Jesus told us that unbelievers do because they think they'll be heard because of their much speaking, commands that forbid priests to marry and which tell people they can't eat meat, baptism of babies who don't have a choice to believe in Christ or not, wearing long robes like the Pharisees and kings, presiding over kings, and on and on. The Catholic church is the Whore of Babylon. Any believer knows that.

The good news for the Catholics though, is that they are the ones who are the easiest to get saved. Most Catholics are Catholics simply because their parents were, not because they chose it. Many of them are willing to believe on the Lord to be saved, and when soul winners talk to them, many of them will be saved. I'm not saying they become fundamentalists. They do become believers, and that's what gets them into heaven. They can then spread the word to other Catholics to help get them saved. Most Catholics are happy when they get saved. It's called being born again.

Unfortunately the hardcore Catholic, similar to the Mormon and Jehovah's witnesses, who also believe their own respective and different false gospels, are extremely hard to get saved.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby The_Adventurer » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:53 am

Where in the Bible does it say the Israelites were sent to preach the word to the four corners of the globe? There's not a single shred of archaeological or historical evidence to back this up. NO evidence of them having visited the ancient Americans, India etc. Up until Paul, the message of the god of Abraham was never preached outside the Hebrew community.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Yohan » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:55 am

Adama wrote:Catholics are not Christians, neither is the Catholic church Christian. It is paganism blatantly
.....
Unfortunately the hardcore Catholic, similar to the Mormon and Jehovah's witnesses, who also believe their own respective and different false gospels, are extremely hard to get saved.


If the Catholics and the LDS and the Jehovahs are not Christians, who is a Christian?

The followers of the Episcopal Church? or El Shaddai? or Iglesia ni Cristo? or the Orthodox in Eastern Europe? Or maybe even the followers of the Happy Science?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Science
They want to create one religion with all inside, Jesus, Mohammed, Jewish, Indian and Buddhist spirits, and the result is the Lord El Cantare...

http://happy-science.org/
Maybe this is really interesting reading stuff for Adama...

http://info.happy-science.org/faq/4/
Happy Science is a worldwide religion established in 1986 by Master Ryuho Okawa. It is a religion that unites all people from different backgrounds, cultures, professions, and faiths — whether Christianity, Buddhism, Jewish, Islam, Hinduism, or others — to study together in joy and harmony. Members will not be required to convert from their existing faiths, and are able to study our teachings alongside their original religions.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:40 pm

The_Adventurer wrote:Where in the Bible does it say the Israelites were sent to preach the word to the four corners of the globe? There's not a single shred of archaeological or historical evidence to back this up. NO evidence of them having visited the ancient Americans, India etc. Up until Paul, the message of the god of Abraham was never preached outside the Hebrew community.


You're right. There is no evidence. However, historians and scholars you will believe, which is fine by me. I could cite Bible passages but we know since you're an adversary that it would not be enough proof for you. The evidence required by men like you and Ghost seems to be very steep. Always something else which you can't believe. Even if I pulled out references and verses from the Bible, we all know you'd still require more, or you wouldn't bother reading it, or you'd say it doesn't apply, or it isn't proof that it reached the far four corners, just because it went outside of the region. Or it would directly contradict the evidence from the learned scholars, doctors of philosophy and professors, and you'd choose the wisdom of men over the wisdom of the book. That's fine. Believe what you want. No skin off my back.


If I were a Newtonian Physicist who didn't believe that force is mass times acceleration, what kind of Newtonian Physicist would I be? What if there were a circle jerk of unlearned commenters, impostors, who claimed to be doctors of Newtonian Physics, but when you question them, you discover, they don't believe that force is mass times acceleration? In fact, they openly deny it, while calling themselves Newtonian Physicists.

Because they don't believe in Newtonian Physics but they take that name anyway, all of their commentary is set against textbook Newtonian Physics, specifically the core that force is mass times acceleration. If anyone bothered to open a textbook, they'd discover that the imposters are all lying about the nature of Newtonian Physics. But because men would rather believe the imposters over the textbook itself, many people who'd rather listen to men will be deceived about the true nature of Newtonian Physics.

These scholars might even be defenders of Newtonian Physics against those who are against Physics altogether. They believe in gravity and other parts of physics. They may even draw many people into "Newtonian Physics". But the whole time the people they draw are specifically told that force being the result of mass times acceleration is impossible and not true physics.

How can this be though? Isn't it obvious, that if you just pick up the textbook that you would know that the scholars are lying? No one cares about the actual text itself. The scholars have convinced people they can't even trust their own textbooks. So what is the basis for their Newtonian Physics if the textbooks themselves are lies? Well the Newtonian Physicists themselves of course. They take the place of the text.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:55 pm

I also put in much more effort into answering this man's questions than I am apt to do. Quite frankly, I've had enough of being open and willing to answer, spend my time writing up the answers and pasting in the right verses, only to get insulted. That's because these are adversaries, not simply men who are curious. Why bother trying to answer and teach scoffers who hate the Bible?
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby The_Adventurer » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:07 pm

Adama wrote:
The_Adventurer wrote:Where in the Bible does it say the Israelites were sent to preach the word to the four corners of the globe? There's not a single shred of archaeological or historical evidence to back this up. NO evidence of them having visited the ancient Americans, India etc. Up until Paul, the message of the god of Abraham was never preached outside the Hebrew community.


You're right. There is no evidence. However, historians and scholars you will believe, which is fine by me. I could cite...


READ MY QUESTION! I asked, above, in plain text, "Where in the Bible does it say the Israelites were sent to preach the word to the four corners of the globe?" And you went off on some complete tangent about scientists and other nonsense.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in this discussion, but it seems Ghost and Yohan are right. You will evade any relevant questions and skirt around issues you are uncertain of. You cannot give an answer because you don't actually know. You are going off of what someone told you.

I asked my questions specifically because I know the Bible, so I will help you out.

Paul is the first person to preach outside of the Hebrew community, and James was against him for wanting to do that! Before that, there is not a single passage or verse which indicates that the Hebrews did Evangelical work or made any attempts to spread the good word. It was chosen people only. They were to separate themselves from everyone else, stand apart and be an example.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Eric » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:22 pm

That's why they hated Saul, I mean [Paul], excuse me. This was occult knowledge, meant for the select group. The Hebrews. Saul went out and decided it was for everybody (God bless him), and started a wildfire they couldn't put out to this day. The Hebrews decided to find a way to use it to their advantage. It fit right in with their plans for world domination *read Deuteronomy*, to have a vehicle to spread monotheism across & around the world. When the time came, it would benefit them and their people. Believe this, Jews don't want you to know Anything, outside of anything. The only problem is, Christianity became too big - too powerful in it's own right. Christians preached and spread the word of God, not Hebrews.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:38 pm

The_Adventurer wrote:
Adama wrote:
The_Adventurer wrote:Where in the Bible does it say the Israelites were sent to preach the word to the four corners of the globe? There's not a single shred of archaeological or historical evidence to back this up. NO evidence of them having visited the ancient Americans, India etc. Up until Paul, the message of the god of Abraham was never preached outside the Hebrew community.


You're right. There is no evidence. However, historians and scholars you will believe, which is fine by me. I could cite...


READ MY QUESTION! I asked, above, in plain text, "Where in the Bible does it say the Israelites were sent to preach the word to the four corners of the globe?" And you went off on some complete tangent about scientists and other nonsense.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in this discussion, but it seems Ghost and Yohan are right. You will evade any relevant questions and skirt around issues you are uncertain of. You cannot give an answer because you don't actually know. You are going off of what someone told you.

I asked my questions specifically because I know the Bible, so I will help you out.

Paul is the first person to preach outside of the Hebrew community, and James was against him for wanting to do that! Before that, there is not a single passage or verse which indicates that the Hebrews did Evangelical work or made any attempts to spread the good word. It was chosen people only. They were to separate themselves from everyone else, stand apart and be an example.


No, just as you were doing here, you were not friendly but an adversary. Not a shred of evidence. That isn't something a friendly person would say. And in no place have you posted even one word to help me defend anything written in the book. And when I answered your question about the eternity of hell, which you must have disbelieved and not known about beforehand despite your knowledge of the Bible, you ignored it, glossed over it, or remained silent.

The whole time you've posted nothing in defense of the Bible. Not one thing, when you could have. And now to say your intention was clearly to help the situation when you were just attempting to support Ghost's position, that must be something that silly men could believe.


The Word is what needs to be preached. Just as God is sending missionaries and His Word throughout the World today, He was also doing so back then. Missionaries are individuals. They are not tribes. Nor do they need to be written about. Preachers simply need to be sent out. Once the preachers reach some, those they have reached can reach others. Why does that even need to be spelled out? The Word has circulated the world.

Also keep in mind, that in the time of Jesus, there were only about 200 million people on this earth, not nearly even one billion. There were even fewer on the earth during the time before Jesus.

There are other passages that speak of the fame of the Israel and Solomon going out to far flung places. They heard the Word. There are verses that describe how people even joined the nation of Israel. How could they do that without hearing the Word of God preached?

Also, why were the Hebrews chosen? They were chosen to shine as a light to the rest of humanity. That's what their purpose was. To show the heathen the way to God. It wasn't just to be His people and to keep the Word hidden under a lamp.
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