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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Adama » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:12 pm

Ghost wrote:
If there is an underground place that burns to the lowest underground place and consumes the earth with her increase and sets on fire the foundation of the mountains, we know the proper word for that place is not the grave or the underground but hell, because those listed traits are characteristics of hell and not either of the other two words. Therefore we can see there was no reason to even go back to the Hebrew, unless you are confused and stumbling at your stumbling block. Anyone who can read can see that.


That verse you quoted seemed to be using imagery to express what great anger is like. It didn't seem to actually have anything to do with hell. like I said, you're grasping at very loose straws.



What flavor of Christian were you? What was your denomination? You claimed to be a Bible thumper but I dont see how that is possible when you think the whole thing is just a metaphor.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Ghost » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:10 pm

Such worldviews require dismissing all of the evidence. When you read the Bible metaphorically and spiritually, it makes so much more sense. And then there is taking mis-translations or misunderstandings or tampering into account. That's what eventually got me. It's only stupid people who say that one must deny the evidence and the facts to get to the "truth." The truth requires acknowledging what is. And even if one denies it, truth still exists. It's only the stupid people who through their foolishness imply that God is irrational or stupid. Peoples' belief in God tends to be based upon their own likeness.
Last edited by Ghost on Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Adama » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:16 pm

Ghost wrote:That's because I used to take it all literally. Used to be a young earther. But such worldviews require dismissing all of the evidence. When you read the Bible metaphorically and spiritually, it makes so much more sense. And then there is taking mis-translations or misunderstandings or tampering into account. That's what eventually got me. It's only stupid people who say that one must deny the evidence and the facts to get to the "truth." The truth requires acknowledging what is. And even if one denies it, truth still exists. It's only the stupid people who through their foolishness imply that God is irrational or stupid. Peoples' belief in God tends to be based upon their own likeness.


Unfortunately for you, you were always an unbeliever, and truly unfortunate is that someone indoctrinated you with a false gospel. There is no truth or light within you. Completely without understanding.

If a verse says hell, that it is beneath the surface of the earth, that it is so great that it consumes the earth, that it is kindled in anger, well all those are characteristics of hell, just as Jesus confirms for us in the New Testament. People want to believe Jews didn't have a hell when it is mentioned in the Old Testament with the same characteristics of the hell in the NT. That is wicked spiritual blindness which is rare. That is sad. What's more is that you're also hostile to the true gospel, which is yet another indicator.

Naturally you failed to answer a direct question but I already know, it doesn't matter. Whatever it was, it wasn't Christian but a cult, because most Christians have zero beliefs in common with you (you're spiritually unaware of why Christ even came into the world, for example)., You're worse than Muslims who convert to Christ. You're farther gone than even Christ-less Muslims.

And I bet each time someone came to you with the true gospel, you waved them away, probably in anger. Too bad.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Ghost » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:30 pm

Adama wrote:Unfortunately for you, you were always an unbeliever, and truly unfortunate is that someone indoctrinated you with a false gospel. There is no truth or light within you. Completely without understanding.


So the best you can do is the No-True-Scotsman fallacy? Pathetic as always, Adama.

If a verse says hell, that it is beneath the surface of the earth, that it is so great that it consumes the earth, that it is kindled in anger, well all those are characteristics of hell, just as Jesus confirms for us in the New Testament. People want to believe Jews didn't have a hell when it is mentioned in the Old Testament with the same characteristics of the hell in the NT. That is wicked spiritual blindness which is rare. That is sad. What's more is that you're also hostile to the true gospel, which is yet another indicator.


Oh yeah, I forgot that your version of hell is literally underground because you're a flat earther.

Naturally you failed to answer a direct question but I already know, it doesn't matter.


Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.

Whatever it was, it wasn't Christian but a cult, because most Christians have zero beliefs in common with you (you're spiritually unaware of why Christ even came into the world, for example)


I'm sure you label all thirty something thousand Christian denominations as cults.

You're worse than Muslims who convert to Christ.


Huh? So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the implication is that even if someone converts to the "right" beliefs, they're still bad in your view?

And I bet each time someone came to you with the true gospel, you waved them away, probably in anger. Too bad.


Modern Christianity has little to do with Christ. Much like what you are doing, they praise a name but it goes no deeper than that.

If you dismiss logic and facts, so will I dismiss you. I refuse to bow to the egos of idiots like you, you vipers and hypocrites.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Adama » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:30 pm

Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:Unfortunately for you, you were always an unbeliever, and truly unfortunate is that someone indoctrinated you with a false gospel. There is no truth or light within you. Completely without understanding.


So the best you can do is the No-True-Scotsman fallacy? Pathetic as always, Adama.

If a verse says hell, that it is beneath the surface of the earth, that it is so great that it consumes the earth, that it is kindled in anger, well all those are characteristics of hell, just as Jesus confirms for us in the New Testament. People want to believe Jews didn't have a hell when it is mentioned in the Old Testament with the same characteristics of the hell in the NT. That is wicked spiritual blindness which is rare. That is sad. What's more is that you're also hostile to the true gospel, which is yet another indicator.


Oh yeah, I forgot that your version of hell is literally underground because you're a flat earther.

Naturally you failed to answer a direct question but I already know, it doesn't matter.


Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.

Whatever it was, it wasn't Christian but a cult, because most Christians have zero beliefs in common with you (you're spiritually unaware of why Christ even came into the world, for example)


I'm sure you label all thirty something thousand Christian denominations as cults.

You're worse than Muslims who convert to Christ.


Huh? So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the implication is that even if someone converts to the "right" beliefs, they're still bad in your view?

And I bet each time someone came to you with the true gospel, you waved them away, probably in anger. Too bad.


Modern Christianity has little to do with Christ. Much like what you are doing, they praise a name but it goes no deeper than that.

If you dismiss logic and facts, so will I dismiss you. I refuse to bow to the egos of idiots like you, you vipers and hypocrites.



It's not me who demands that you bow. Naturally once again you refuse to answer what denomination you were.

People act like it is a major feat to place their faith on Christ alone. It takes no effort. It is just impossible for some, but possible for most. It doesn't cost anything, but they hate the message that all you have to do is believe. You could even change your mind later to believe something else. Once you believe, you're sealed with the Holy Ghost until the Day of Redemption. So if a person believed on Christ for one moment and then went back to believing in evolution and the Big bang, they'd still be saved and still get to heaven. It doesn't cost anything to believe for one moment.

The people who refuse to bow down to the gospel by faith, yet instead insist that it must be by works (repentance, forgiveness of others, being a good person, etc.), are the ones who will be judged by their works. And since they did not live a sinless life (only God can do that), and because they didn't ever put their trust in Jesus, they will all remain damned to hell (even worse for those who received many presentations of the proper salvation or who have studied the Bible while refusing to believe). There's only one perfect person, and the only forgiveness there is only comes after the person believes that He paid for all their sins.

Salvation is all about Jesus. It is not about the person. Any person who thinks it is about them will die forever in hell. Jesus paid for our sins; past, present and future; which is why trusting on Him is all we need to do.

You are incapable of having any faith. You don't take God at His Word. You don't believe His Word. And you think they are just nice stories. If God said it in the Bible, that should be all you need to know. You don't trust the Lord as proven by your inability to believe His Word.


Those Muslims who trusted in Christ for their salvation are saved. You are worse than them, in that you can't even believe, and they can.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Adama » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:30 am

Ghost wrote:
Modern Christianity has little to do with Christ. Much like what you are doing, they praise a name but it goes no deeper than that.

If you dismiss logic and facts, so will I dismiss you. I refuse to bow to the egos of idiots like you, you vipers and hypocrites.



1 John 5:13 KJV
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

John 20:31 KJV
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 1:12 KJV
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Acts 10:43 KJV
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 4:12 KJV
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 3:18 KJV
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Yes, all you have to do is believe on His name, but that is ALL about Christ, because that is putting complete TRUST IN HIM for salvation. He's already paid for all our sins already. Salvation is the gift of God. It is not of works, lest any man should boast. A person can keep on sinning and remain saved, because God has already paid for that sin. Salvation is a gift: not earned, and can't be lost. Now if we continue in sin, then God will punish us in this life (called chastisement in the Bible) through bodily disease and various other means which He has. There is no permission to continue in sin. He expects us to be as holy as possible because He loves holiness, because He is pure.

You dismiss me and then return. You're dismissing the message, which is fine. But you should know, God takes it seriously when people refuse to submit to being saved. It only takes a moment to believe. Then they could technically even go back to believing whatever they wanted. A person is truly a wicked person if they cannot believe or if they refuse to believe. Jesus Himself even tells us so in John chapter 3.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Ghost » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:18 am

Again, doing the robot-seeking-keyword thing and missing my point.

It only takes a moment to believe. Then they could technically even go back to believing whatever they wanted.


Solid as a house built on sand. No wonder "Christian" societies tend to go to shit. They care about what people believe, but not what people do.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Adama » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:01 pm

Ghost wrote:Again, doing the robot-seeking-keyword thing and missing my point.

It only takes a moment to believe. Then they could technically even go back to believing whatever they wanted.


Solid as a house built on sand. No wonder "Christian" societies tend to go to shit. They care about what people believe, but not what people do.


That's just proof that you can't be saved. All that is required to be saved is to believe for a moment, then the gift of the Holy Ghost is given to the believer which seals that person until the Day of Redemption. You can't believe. Therefore you are not saved.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Ghost » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:00 am

I've never had trouble believing. Believing in God, Jesus. It's people that are so hard to believe in.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Adama » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:30 pm

Ghost wrote:I've never had trouble believing. Believing in God, Jesus. It's people that are so hard to believe in.


Good. Then you know the creation happened exactly as God wrote in His Word, and the flood happened, exactly as written down by Moses. You also know that hell is everlasting punishment and that everlasting life is imparted to people by God simply for believing in Jesus, and not by works of the law, because no flesh will be justified by the law.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Ghost » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:06 pm

What I've learned about Adama's belief system:

God can speak through the Bible, but not Creation.

Metaphors are lies instead of a way to express truth that literal meaning cannot.

The universe does not exist.

All you have to do to go to "heaven" is "believe," even if you switch beliefs a second after.

Mis-translations of words into English trump the original texts.

What we do doesn't matter. No change of heart necessary, nor spiritual rebirth to see the "Kingdom of Heaven."

You've developed a belief system based in denialism. Truly, it would be better for you to die than to remain a complete waste of flesh, an incarnation of lies and ignorance. Even better it would be for you to change your ways.

The Bible contains metaphors because some truths cannot be explained in literal terms. You throw away metaphors and allegories and you've discarded most of the meaning. God made an entire universe. Your conception is of an old-man-in-the-sky. Your denialism runs so deep that you deny the Creation itself. Your stupidity pollutes everything you do and everything you are, you viper and hypocrite.

This is what we do. I mean, this is what humanity does. It's what we always do. We create religions because we can't accept the truth. Everything Adama says is completely backwards because it is antithetical to reason, opposite to reality, and opposed to logic. Adama denies the Creation itself. To call that egotistical doesn't do it justice. The only god Adama has is his own ego.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Adama » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:36 pm

Ghost wrote:What I've learned about Adama's belief system:

God can speak through the Bible, but not Creation.

Metaphors are lies instead of a way to express truth that literal meaning cannot.

The universe does not exist.

All you have to do to go to "heaven" is "believe," even if you switch beliefs a second after.

Mis-translations of words into English trump the original texts.

What we do doesn't matter. No change of heart necessary, nor spiritual rebirth to see the "Kingdom of Heaven."


You've developed a belief system based in denialism. Truly, it would be better for you to die than to remain a complete waste of flesh, an incarnation of lies and ignorance. Even better it would be for you to change your ways.

The Bible contains metaphors because some truths cannot be explained in literal terms. You throw away metaphors and allegories and you've discarded most of the meaning. God made an entire universe. Your conception is of an old-man-in-the-sky. Your denialism runs so deep that you deny the Creation itself. Your stupidity pollutes everything you do and everything you are, you viper and hypocrite.

This is what we do. I mean, this is what humanity does. It's what we always do. We create religions because we can't accept the truth. Everything Adama says is completely backwards because it is antithetical to reason, opposite to reality, and opposed to logic. Adama denies the Creation itself. To call that egotistical doesn't do it justice. The only god Adama has is his own ego.



That's because believing is the spiritual rebirth. Believing is the change of heart. This is being born into God's family spiritually, as John 1:12 KJV proves. That's what it means to be born again. You must be born of the woman (the water, amniotic fluid) and then of the spirit (born again) by believing in Jesus. And you finally got it right. All you have to do is believe. Then the person is sealed with the Holy Ghost until the Day of Redemption. This isn't hard at all.

John 1:12 KJV
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Ghost » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:18 pm

Believing should reflect your change of heart, your spiritual rebirth. Just as baptism is supposed to reflect your death to sin/self. If there has been no change, it doesn't mean anything. A baptism without a change of heart means it's just water. A belief without substance is just a belief, as flimsy as "believe it for one second, then believe whatever after that." To reduce it all to "believe X, get in the big club," is to dismiss what it really means. There's a reason Jesus didn't describe Heaven geographically.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Adama » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:05 pm

Ghost wrote:Believing should reflect your change of heart, your spiritual rebirth. Just as baptism is supposed to reflect your death to sin/self. If there has been no change, it doesn't mean anything. A baptism without a change of heart means it's just water. A belief without substance is just a belief, as flimsy as "believe it for one second, then believe whatever after that." To reduce it all to "believe X, get in the big club," is to dismiss what it really means. There's a reason Jesus didn't describe Heaven geographically.




Believing IS the change of heart (that is repenting of unbelief). Unfortunately for you, you are adding works to faith. That is you demand proof, and any proof which is shown by work is a work. That is why the evidence of the unseen is faith. Faith is the only evidence of salvation. As in believing in the Word of God. That proves that you have faith; believing His Word and the promises contained therein. That is proof. There is no proof by works or repentance. You believe that because you've rejected the Lord and in return you are also rejected. Salvation is either by faith alone or by works, not both, and we know no flesh can be justified by keeping the law. Faith is putting all trust in Jesus for salvation because HE died for ALL our sins already. Claiming there must be evidence of repentance by works is saying that salvation is by works, which denies Jesus and His sacrifice.

Also, true repentance is a change of mind or change of heart, which is why God repents in the Bible and why in some of the verses where it says repent, it says BELIEF in the same sentence. You can't understand that because you can only believe in faith + works. You're unable to believe in faith alone.

(grace = gift of God)

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
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Re: Ego, Denialism, and Irrationality

Postby Adama » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:35 pm

Ghost wrote: There's a reason Jesus didn't describe Heaven geographically.


Naturally you didn't elaborate on this. You just throw it out there, as if it means something. But there is about a 100% chance that you're deeply confused about any topic, especially this nonsense which you've come up with. There's a reason why? Just mention there is a reason why without stating that reason. Because that makes sense. No, it's because you're confused, and the things which you believe in are proof of it.
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