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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:00 pm

For anyone else still reading, who isn't an adversary, have you ever heard of merchants and traders? Those are people who travel back and forth between different peoples, countries and nations. They've had those in ancient times too. If God is real, is it so hard to believe that He would send messengers out to the lost? Especially since He openly says He wants everyone to go to heaven. Heaven wasn't just for the Hebrews.

Even in the time of Jonas, none Hebrews were getting saved. When the men Jonas was traveling with realized it was the true God who was causing those miracles to happen, they believed on the Lord and those foreigners he was traveling with got saved.

The world is not a vacuum. It is so strange that this concept is hard for some to accept. They need absolute proof or they won't believe it. haha

But because they choose to disbelieve other key doctrine from the Bible, they can't believe this simple thing. For me to show them this would mean that I would basically have to conduct a whole sermon for a bunch of scoffers and unbelievers. (Requiring great effort on my part, and I am not a pastor, neither am I apt to teach.) Such teachings are for believers. If you're not already willing to believe the Bible, even simple matters are impossible to comprehend, like even this one.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Yohan » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:13 pm

Adama wrote:I also put in much more effort into answering this man's questions than I am apt to do. Quite frankly, I've had enough of being open and willing to answer, spend my time writing up the answers and pasting in the right verses, only to get insulted. That's because these are adversaries, not simply men who are curious. Why bother trying to answer and teach scoffers who hate the Bible?


The point is that you are unwilling or even unable to answer questions which you feel they are indeed inconvenient for you. You are evasive.

You are claiming, Catholic followers are not Christians. You say the same about the LDS and the Jehovahs.

This is new to me, nobody ever said something like that to me.

My question is clear and simple: If Catholics are no Christians, who are those believers who are correctly claiming they are Christians? So far, no answer.

A while ago I was asking you what about the soul. Has a soul you claim to exist for every human consciousness? If not, what is then the meaning of an afterlife, if you are not aware of it? Of course, no answer.

If you want to play clergyman in this forum and claim everybody who is not following your belief and moral values will end in hell, you should not be surprised to face rather harsh questions in return. You call people you do not believe in your ideas to be 'scoffers' - well, such replies to questions will not help your agenda, this is for sure.

I met a while ago again this couple from USA, who are living in Japan as LDS missionaries since many years. They show sometimes up to visit some US-citizens and some Filipino staff living and working in Japan in our area.

I can say, I was impressed about their high standard of education and discipline they keep all the time when trying to argue with non-believers. Not even the slightest sign of impatience.

It is impossible to provoke them. As they told me they get frequently insulted for promoting their temples with the Angel Moroni on the top and with their ideas of Jesus visiting Utah a while ago - but they also told me it is very important for being successful with their mission that they never feel to be insulted regardless people are telling them about their belief.

Maybe you should learn from them?
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:19 pm

2 Peter 3 KJV

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


I know you're going to say, "but that's not relevant," but it is, because it is the whole reason why they dont believe anyway. It's because they don't want to believe it.

God created the heaven and the earth. Just the way He said He did. It is not a metaphor. It is literal.

2 Peter 3
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


Here Peter explains why men don't want to believe. Because they are walking after their own lusts. I can't imagine how awful those lusts could be. What's so terrible that they could want? Must be some truly sick, twisted stuff they'd rather cling onto, rather than believe on the Lord to be saved. That's why they don't believe the Bible. They refuse to be saved because there's some ungodly lusts out there which they find much more compelling than the promise of avoiding hell for eternity by accepting the free gift of eternal life. What kind of sins could that be?
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:08 pm

Adama wrote:I don't know why you find the concept of God sending messengers to spread His Word as hard to believe. You don't want to believe that, that's on you. I've written the answer. That is what it is. You don't have to like it, but that's what the answer is.


What, no verses to back up this assertion that ancient Israelites sent out missionaries to the entire world? :roll:

Did they send them to, say, North America and South America too?

And you still didn't answer my question about peoples who existed BEFORE the Israelites. What about them? They get an instant go-to-hell card or no?

This is some of your flimsiest handiwork, Adama.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:11 pm

Adama wrote:Well then you can believe the Bible is a metaphor. I believe the Bible literally. That's on you. My point is, if it is literal, but people only take it as a metaphor, then they will be in trouble for not having taken it seriously. That's on them. I'd rather be safe, than miss the mark and only realize it after it's too late. Once it's too late, it's too late. A person can't go back after death to tell the Lord he wishes he could go back to believe. That's the point of the story of Lazarus and the rich man in hell. You can't go back. While you're alive, you have some time. After you're dead, then it is too late to take God seriously. God is not a metaphor. Neither is His Word. But if anyone wants to believe that, they don't need to argue with me. Believe what you want. ;)


The thing is, you likely would agree that there are some metaphors in the Bible (unless you believe in, say, a literal Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.) And you already agree that parables aren't literal. So it's a matter of degree.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:14 pm

Adama wrote:
The_Adventurer wrote:Where in the Bible does it say the Israelites were sent to preach the word to the four corners of the globe? There's not a single shred of archaeological or historical evidence to back this up. NO evidence of them having visited the ancient Americans, India etc. Up until Paul, the message of the god of Abraham was never preached outside the Hebrew community.


You're right. There is no evidence.


Adama in a nutshell.

There's no evidence but you need to accept this as fact anyway.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:19 pm

Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:I don't know why you find the concept of God sending messengers to spread His Word as hard to believe. You don't want to believe that, that's on you. I've written the answer. That is what it is. You don't have to like it, but that's what the answer is.


What, no verses to back up this assertion that ancient Israelites sent out missionaries to the entire world? :roll:

Did they send them to, say, North America and South America too?

And you still didn't answer my question about peoples who existed BEFORE the Israelites. What about them? They get an instant go-to-hell card or no?

This is some of your flimsiest handiwork, Adama.


I could post verses but I am not your pastor. It is not up for me to teach you things in the Bible. Even if I posted verses, you would also contend the meaning of those verses. At what point would it end? So if you don't believe in the power of God, that He sent messengers in the ancient days to unbelievers in foreign countries far and wide, then it is not necessary for you to believe that.

There is no use explaining anything to people who would refuse to believe it. That is a wasted effort. :) If you believed in the power of God, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. t would be a no-brainer (go ahead and mock). It's just obvious.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:22 pm

Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:
The_Adventurer wrote:Where in the Bible does it say the Israelites were sent to preach the word to the four corners of the globe? There's not a single shred of archaeological or historical evidence to back this up. NO evidence of them having visited the ancient Americans, India etc. Up until Paul, the message of the god of Abraham was never preached outside the Hebrew community.


You're right. There is no evidence.


Adama in a nutshell.

There's no evidence but you need to accept this as fact anyway.


There is no evidence. Faith is the evidence. I cannot show you anything. Either you believe or you don't. I cannot show you anything that could force you to believe. There is no sufficient evidence. That's what faith is. You have no faith in God. Therefore you cannot believe certain things are possible. And if you actually did believe they were possible, it would not be necessary to challenge me to prove it. You'd believe it and that would be the end of it. So we know, you don't believe in the power of God to preserve His Word or to spread His Word, which means you don't believe in God, but simply in powerless metaphors.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:25 pm

Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:Well then you can believe the Bible is a metaphor. I believe the Bible literally. That's on you. My point is, if it is literal, but people only take it as a metaphor, then they will be in trouble for not having taken it seriously. That's on them. I'd rather be safe, than miss the mark and only realize it after it's too late. Once it's too late, it's too late. A person can't go back after death to tell the Lord he wishes he could go back to believe. That's the point of the story of Lazarus and the rich man in hell. You can't go back. While you're alive, you have some time. After you're dead, then it is too late to take God seriously. God is not a metaphor. Neither is His Word. But if anyone wants to believe that, they don't need to argue with me. Believe what you want. ;)


The thing is, you likely would agree that there are some metaphors in the Bible (unless you believe in, say, a literal Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.) And you already agree that parables aren't literal. So it's a matter of degree.


No, you just think it is a matter of degree. Either it will happen exactly as described literally or it is just a fable. There is no great metaphor. This is literally real. That's your problem. You can't accept that it's real. IT IS.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:43 pm

For others, remember these are the same ones who, even after I posted that hell is for eternity, they chose to dispute it further, even saying that the purpose of eternal hellfire is not for eternal torture. Then they went on to demand more proof, which they also didn't want to accept. All the while rejecting everything, just as my proofs of what happens to adulterers were rejected from the first post.

These are scoffers, just as the Bible tells us. There will never be sufficient proof of anything, and they would have me become their pastor so that they could keep denying the Bible. I admit. I don't have the energy to explain every doctrine from the Bible which they should already accept through the knowledge of the power of God.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:58 pm

Adama wrote:I could post verses but I am not your pastor.


You do nothing but spam verses most of the time. The reason you won't do it now is because you know you have nothing to support this notion that ancient Israelites went out to preach to the entire world. Apparently they time traveled to, given that there were people before the Israelites. This is why no one can take you seriously. If your beliefs clash with reality (like world traveling and time traveling ancient Israelites) then people tend to view you as stupid, as they should.

There is no use explaining anything to people who would refuse to believe it.


You can't expect people to believe something that doesn't make sense. You're a liar. I can either believe that God makes sense, or I can believe you.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:59 pm

Adama wrote:No, you just think it is a matter of degree. Either it will happen exactly as described literally or it is just a fable. There is no great metaphor. This is literally real. That's your problem. You can't accept that it's real. IT IS.


So you think there are going to be literal Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:02 pm

Adama wrote:For others, remember these are the same ones who, even after I posted that hell is for eternity, they chose to dispute it further, even saying that the purpose of eternal hellfire is not for eternal torture. Then they went on to demand more proof, which they also didn't want to accept. All the while rejecting everything, just as my proofs of what happens to adulterers were rejected from the first post.

These are scoffers, just as the Bible tells us. There will never be sufficient proof of anything, and they would have me become their pastor so that they could keep denying the Bible. I admit. I don't have the energy to explain every doctrine from the Bible which they should already accept through the knowledge of the power of God.


The problem is you didn't provide any Biblical evidence of eternal torture in hell. Your lack of comprehension is astounding.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:59 pm

You should not believe me. Neither should you take me seriously at all. I am nothing.

You're also quite correct in that I do use verses to support the things which I write.

I even went on to prove that people in the OT were saved by faith, which you also didnt want to believe. I also posted verses for that. Still, you don't believe it.

Now you've found something else that you would challenge me on for the sake of scripture, as if it is my job to spend my time building you up in knowledge only so that you can continue to mock the Bible.

I am under no obligation to prove anything to you anyway. In fact, I had no interest in you believing it anyway, because I had already come to the conclusion that you are incapable of believing. :D

Verse after verse. Still you won't believe.

That's fine. So I suggest that you should not take me seriously. That would be the course of action which you should take.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:07 pm

Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:For others, remember these are the same ones who, even after I posted that hell is for eternity, they chose to dispute it further, even saying that the purpose of eternal hellfire is not for eternal torture. Then they went on to demand more proof, which they also didn't want to accept. All the while rejecting everything, just as my proofs of what happens to adulterers were rejected from the first post.

These are scoffers, just as the Bible tells us. There will never be sufficient proof of anything, and they would have me become their pastor so that they could keep denying the Bible. I admit. I don't have the energy to explain every doctrine from the Bible which they should already accept through the knowledge of the power of God.


The problem is you didn't provide any Biblical evidence of eternal torture in hell. Your lack of comprehension is astounding.


Even this is proof that Bible verses mean nothing to you:


Matthew 25:46 KJV

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.



Jude 7 KJV

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


This is why educating the men here is a waste of time, especially since when shown they'll refuse to believe but also use that as an occasion to mock the Bible.
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