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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:25 pm

The_Adventurer wrote:
So let's look at these verses which speak being tormented "for ever" (two word). Keeping in mind that we are studying old English, and lest we confuse this with our modern usage of the one word "forever", let's look at how this term is used throughout the bible.


This just makes me wonder how someone's mind works. Is this seriously a question that a person ponders? Surely this man is straining at a gnat so that he can swallow a camel.

Take a look at this. FOR EVER is also used interchangeable with EVERLASTING and ETERNAL. They are synonyms.

There must be something really terrible going on if you need to start questioning the meaning of words which have clearly defined meanings in the Bible, especially when you would use that as a reason to twist scripture.

I mean, shouldnt it be obvious to anyone that for ever means forever, means everlasting, means eternal? Is this what it comes down to? And they think I am crazy? I am the one who shouldn't be taken seriously? I am the one who isn't well studied in the Bible?

Okay, wait, so let me guess. Where it also says, FOR EVER AND EVER, is there also doubt as to whether or not it is forever? I mean if we are doubting what for ever means, then surely for ever and ever must also not truly mean forever and ever but rather something else, much more mysterious.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:51 pm

Adventurer, I will tell you this one time only. You do not understand the Bible because you are not saved and the Holy Ghost is not with you. If my memory of the different types of false Christianity serves me correctly, you have probably been brainwashed deeply into the cult of 7th Day Adventism. That is not true Christianity but a false gospel and a deception of Satan meant to direct good people towards hell. If it is still possible, I would suggest you forget everything which you know and suspect they've been lying about all along, and accept the true gospel by faith alone. Since you seem to be a very immodest person, I doubt you will heed this warning. This is all I will say on it though.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby The_Adventurer » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:53 pm

You're working backwards. You want to believe in a hell of eternal torture and punishment and so you are finding whatever seems to fit and shoehorning into what you already believe. The second death is hell? C'mon. There is no basis for that.

If I am deluded, surely you are aware that I am not alone. The Jews, from whom all this sprang, have no hell. The Jehovahs Witnesses have no hell. They will tell you The wages of sin is death. Which is what the bible says. The Seventh Day Adventists have no hell. Other denominations also don't believe in hell.

But, then, you say that certain denominations are not really christians. So they are lost despite their faith and belief, right? This makes me wonder, what denomination are you? Since you speak of self righteousness, you seem quite certain your one denomination is the "correct" christian way and all others are off to damnation.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:37 pm

Adventurer beat me to it. That verse didn't indicate people burning for eternity. Adama, none of the verses you've given state eternal torture by fire. (For humans anyway.)

In that version, everyone gets eternal life, whether or not they follow God or Satan. It's just that following Satan gets you the bad version of eternal life.

If it's the "second death" then dead doesn't mean what you think it means. The wages of sin is...eternal life in fire?
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:39 pm

The_Adventurer wrote:You're working backwards. You want to believe in a hell of eternal torture and punishment and so you are finding whatever seems to fit and shoehorning into what you already believe. The second death is hell? C'mon. There is no basis for that.

If I am deluded, surely you are aware that I am not alone. The Jews, from whom all this sprang, have no hell. The Jehovahs Witnesses have no hell. They will tell you The wages of sin is death. Which is what the bible says. The Seventh Day Adventists have no hell. Other denominations also don't believe in hell.

But, then, you say that certain denominations are not really christians. So they are lost despite their faith and belief, right? This makes me wonder, what denomination are you? Since you speak of self righteousness, you seem quite certain your one denomination is the "correct" christian way and all others are off to damnation.


I think I figured it out. Adama's denomination, I mean. I've experienced this kind of brain numbing anti-logic and Bible thumping and twisting before, and I thought it felt familiar...

He's a Calvinist, isn't he?
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:45 pm

Adama wrote:Adventurer, I will tell you this one time only. You do not understand the Bible because you are not saved and the Holy Ghost is not with you. If my memory of the different types of false Christianity serves me correctly, you have probably been brainwashed deeply into the cult of 7th Day Adventism. That is not true Christianity but a false gospel and a deception of Satan meant to direct good people towards hell. If it is still possible, I would suggest you forget everything which you know and suspect they've been lying about all along, and accept the true gospel by faith alone. Since you seem to be a very immodest person, I doubt you will heed this warning. This is all I will say on it though.


Fundies of each denomination will say things like this: "You can't see that MY interpretation is correct because you are NOT SAVED." Since you're incapable of making a rational argument (or scriptural argument) how would one discern that your way is correct?

This is just so hilariously stupid how fundies are all at each other's throats all the time. One God, one Jesus, one Bible, but thousands of denominations, with so many professing that their belief system is the one and only. It forces ones like me into a corner, where the only options are to believe these irrational nitwits or to believe that the nitwits are wrong and that God is rational.

Which makes it easy to choose. By their fruits I know their tree is rotten.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:35 am

The_Adventurer wrote:You're working backwards. You want to believe in a hell of eternal torture and punishment and so you are finding whatever seems to fit and shoehorning into what you already believe. The second death is hell? C'mon. There is no basis for that.

If I am deluded, surely you are aware that I am not alone. The Jews, from whom all this sprang, have no hell. The Jehovahs Witnesses have no hell. They will tell you The wages of sin is death. Which is what the bible says. The Seventh Day Adventists have no hell. Other denominations also don't believe in hell.

But, then, you say that certain denominations are not really christians. So they are lost despite their faith and belief, right? This makes me wonder, what denomination are you? Since you speak of self righteousness, you seem quite certain your one denomination is the "correct" christian way and all others are off to damnation.



Death is hell. Search it out for yourself if you don't believe me. And of course the Jews believe in heresy. They are not even Christians, yet you would reference them as proof for salvation?

The Jehovahs are a cult worse than the 7th Day Adventists. No hell cause they burn up; annihilation. Oh well.

And if I were a Calvinist, there would be no point to any of this, since they believe God chooses who goes to heaven. Since you are spiritually blind, you think the numbers of people on your side is some kind of verification that your belief is correct when Jesus even tells us the path to hell is broad and there are many going that way. So saying that most other denominations also believe your way is actually foolishness. The path to hell is WIDE. Many people will believe in heresy.




That was your warning. You will not receive another from me.
Last edited by Adama on Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:37 am

Ghost wrote:
Adama wrote:Adventurer, I will tell you this one time only. You do not understand the Bible because you are not saved and the Holy Ghost is not with you. If my memory of the different types of false Christianity serves me correctly, you have probably been brainwashed deeply into the cult of 7th Day Adventism. That is not true Christianity but a false gospel and a deception of Satan meant to direct good people towards hell. If it is still possible, I would suggest you forget everything which you know and suspect they've been lying about all along, and accept the true gospel by faith alone. Since you seem to be a very immodest person, I doubt you will heed this warning. This is all I will say on it though.


Fundies of each denomination will say things like this: "You can't see that MY interpretation is correct because you are NOT SAVED." Since you're incapable of making a rational argument (or scriptural argument) how would one discern that your way is correct?

This is just so hilariously stupid how fundies are all at each other's throats all the time. One God, one Jesus, one Bible, but thousands of denominations, with so many professing that their belief system is the one and only. It forces ones like me into a corner, where the only options are to believe these irrational nitwits or to believe that the nitwits are wrong and that God is rational.

Which makes it easy to choose. By their fruits I know their tree is rotten.


Both you and this other fool would contend the definition of for ever, everlasting, and punishment. You're complete fools and you in particular I am sure cannot be saved, since you can't believe. I wouldn't even be bothered with you.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:41 am

Check out when death is referenced, sometimes it comes with "and hell" right after it. Death and hell are the same thing. That's why the wages of sin is death. He isn't talking about the death of just your flesh.

Eternal LIFE is in heaven. Death is hell, the opposite of heaven. That's why He says DEATH AND HELL.

Soul sleep and annihilation defeat the purpose of the creation of hell, and it contradicts the verses which emphasize eternal vengeance, everlasting punishment. Any person who hasn't been brainwashed into a cult can see this.

But your soul sleeping denominations will send you down the broad path.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Yohan » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:53 am

I think, Adama is the 'owner' of a 'one-man-church' - creating a new christian religion out of his fantasy.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:00 am

Ghost wrote:Adventurer beat me to it. That verse didn't indicate people burning for eternity. Adama, none of the verses you've given state eternal torture by fire. (For humans anyway.)

In that version, everyone gets eternal life, whether or not they follow God or Satan. It's just that following Satan gets you the bad version of eternal life.

If it's the "second death" then dead doesn't mean what you think it means. The wages of sin is...eternal life in fire?



You don't understand it, well too bad. That's because you don't believe in the Bible but in a pack of lies, you fool. God considers everlasting life to be life in heaven. God considers death to be the eternal suffering in hell. By God's definition, hell is a form of death. He calls the people in hell THE DEAD. Now because you think they are alive it is irrelevant. You are not the one who defines life and death. The one who is the source of life is the one who defines life as heaven and hell as death.

When you think about it, it makes sense. Eternal life is for heaven. Death is hell. That's why they are opposites. Heaven is the opposite of hell. Eternal life is in heaven. That's why God says some will go off into everlasting punishment, while the righteous shall go into eternal life. The everlasting punishment of hell is death. Eternal life is in heaven.

Anyone who hasn't been brainwashed completely can understand how heaven = eternal life, and hell = death. They are opposites.

And no you don't burn up. The burning is a description of how terrible that fire and brimstone are. And it would turn God into a liar because He said the condemned will go away into everlasting punishment. If that is not everlasting punishment in hell then the Bible is false. And we know the Bible is correct.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:13 am

Yohan wrote:I think, Adama is the 'owner' of a 'one-man-church' - creating a new christian religion out of his fantasy.



Do I look like Fschmidt? Does anyone say anything to him? He is trying to recruit men to go live in a cult with him, secluded away from society, following a dead form a Judaism, when he doesn't even believe the Bible. He's the ultimate false prophet. Yet, no one accusing him of trying to start a one man church.

Have you seen me trying to get men to come live on a compound with me? Am I trying to seclude myself away with other men?

Have I been preaching my own name at all?

Certainly a feeble attempt and a railing accusation on your part. You're an accuser. You don't even have much evidence of anything, yet you would hurl the accusation anyway. That's ridiculously pathetic.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Adama » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:51 am

What's my denomination? The one that believes that salvation is the gift of God through faith alone, without works, without repentance, in the Lord Jesus Christ. That we can't lose our salvation because it is the gift of God, it is not of works, it isn't earned, can't be lost, and it is eternal from when the person believes onward. Jesus said there was no way He would cast anyone out and that there is no way He would let anyone pluck us out of His hand.

The only name I can figure to call that is a Christian. All others who believe in sacraments, that you can lose salvation, that work must accompany faith as evidence, that repentance is necessary, or that it is by work alone, are false denominations. We know because Paul told us, it is either by work or by grace, not both.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby retiredfrank » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:16 am

Sounds like a great religion you have there. "Believe in Jesus", whatever that means, and then you can do whatever you want and feel good about yourself and feel superior to other people. Of course you can do the same thing without religion, and people do it all the time. For example, I do what I want, I feel good about myself, and I feel superior to other people (though I don't rant about them burning in hell for eternity) without belief in Jesus.
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Re: Understanding a belief-based religion: questions for Ada

Postby Ghost » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:17 am

Adama wrote:What's my denomination? The one that believes that salvation is the gift of God through faith alone, without works, without repentance, in the Lord Jesus Christ. That we can't lose our salvation because it is the gift of God, it is not of works, it isn't earned, can't be lost, and it is eternal from when the person believes onward. Jesus said there was no way He would cast anyone out and that there is no way He would let anyone pluck us out of His hand.


Was not the whole point of Jesus' ministry to call people to a change of heart (the literal meaning of repentance)? Repent because the Kingdom of heaven is at hand. - Matthew 4:17. Why preach it if it doesn't matter? Actions speak louder than words. In your belief system, apparently a Christian could focus his life around living immorally and it wouldn't matter.

The only name I can figure to call that is a Christian. All others who believe in sacraments, that you can lose salvation, that work must accompany faith as evidence, that repentance is necessary, or that it is by work alone, are false denominations. We know because Paul told us, it is either by work or by grace, not both.


I guess I'll have to start calling you a Paulian then. Your beliefs come from Paul apparently. If that's your belief system, that's your right to it. But it's got little to do with Jesus and his teachings (which apparently don't matter in your belief system.)
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