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I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Adama » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:09 pm

retiredfrank wrote:The issue is not debunking Christianity, that was done long ago, no need to repeat those arguments here. Paine's Age of Reason is a particularly amusing debunking, but there are scores of others.

No, the real issue is what sort of upbringing causes guys like Adama, Eric and Ghost, among others, to continue swallowing this shit at such a late time on history. Occasionally Eric, in one of his rants, talks about his stern father. I'd be curious about Adama's upbringing, and also current influences on Adama. What sort of guru had this poor guy under his control.


I got this from Wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Reason#Paine.27s_analysis_of_the_Bible

Paine's analysis of the Bible

After establishing that he would refrain from using extra-Biblical sources to inform his criticism, but would instead apply the Bible's own words against itself, Paine questions the sacredness of the Bible, analyzing it as one would any other book. For example, in his analysis of the Book of Proverbs he argues that its sayings are "inferior in keenness to the proverbs of the Spaniards, and not more wise and economical than those of the American Franklin".[22] Describing the Bible as "fabulous mythology", Paine questions whether or not it was revealed to its writers and doubts that the original writers can ever be known (he dismisses the idea that Moses wrote the Pentateuch or that the Gospel's authors are known, for example).

My intention is to show that those books are spurious, and that Moses is not the author of them; and still further, that they were not written in the time of Moses, nor till several hundred years afterward; that they are no other than an attempted history of the life of Moses, and of the times in which he is said to have lived, and also of the times prior thereto, written by some very ignorant and stupid pretenders to authorship, several hundred years after the death of Moses.[23][24] [...] The books called the Evangelists, and ascribed to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; ...they have been manufactured, as the books of the Old Testament have been by other persons than those whose names they bear.[25]


Using methods that would not become common in Biblical scholarship until the nineteenth century, Paine tested the Bible for internal consistency and questioned its historical accuracy, concluding that it was not divinely inspired.

Paine also argues that the Old Testament must be false because it depicts a tyrannical God. The "history of wickedness" pervading the Old Testament convinced Paine that it was simply another set of human-authored myths.[26] He deplores people's credulity: "Brought up in habits of superstition," he wrote, "people in general know not how much wickedness there is in this pretended word of God." Citing Numbers 31:13–47 as an example, in which Moses orders the slaughter of thousands of boys and women, and sanctions the rape of thousands of girls, at God's behest,[27] Paine calls the Bible a "book of lies, wickedness, and blasphemy; for what can be greater blasphemy than to ascribe the wickedness of man to the orders of the Almighty!"[28]


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31%3A13%E2%80%9347+&version=KJV

I bet Mr Paine is getting to experience God's wrath firsthand right now. I would also wonder, RF, whether or not Paine was a complete and total pervert like the rest of the reprobates who hate God, but I already know the answer to that one.

I just read Numbers 31:13–47. God does not command rape. And if there is a King somewhere who commands for His enemies to be killed, how is that not considered righteous? Since when do people say that those who have crossed THE KING can't be killed by The King's decree? If God is the King of Kings, and He is, then He can order the execution of those who have sinned against Him.

It's also clear that Paine simply hated God. That's probably because he was a total pervert doing all kinds of things a man should not do, loving those things more than Jesus. It probably all seems worth it, but it's just filthy and disgusting.
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Winston » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:37 pm

OP,
I used to struggle a lot with Christianity and the Bible when I was in my late teens and early 20's. It tore me apart. But eventually, I learned some things that helped. I'll share them with you. You see, all those contradictions you struggle with will be made a lot easier and more understandable, once you stop expecting God to be perfect and truth to be absolute, and stop taking the Bible literally. Instead just accept the following self-evident, common sense, logical conclusions that me and many other truth seekers, researchers and historians have come to. Then you will have peace of mind and understanding as well as a more mature evolved view of Christianity and of religion in general.

7 Wise Truths about Christianity, Religion and God for Those Struggling and Confused
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=32218
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Adama » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:22 pm

Such damnable heresy. Hey, we already know that you couldn't believe the Bible if you wanted to. All of that heresy is simply the justification for disbelief. The reason could be anything. It doesn't matter what it is in particular, as long as it is something to prove that it simply can't be true. I understand now which people can't believe God is real. It really is true that they've done abominable works. After that point, they recognize what they've done, but they rationalize that God doesn't exist, or if He does, not in the way the Bible says, which also means He's not real. In that way, they can continue to live the way they want without guilt of having to be accountable some day. That sin is too good to give up anyhow.

If this site has shown me anything, it is that the doctrine of the reprobate is true. They're unable to believe the gospel, and they've chosen the pleasure of unrighteousness over Christ and everlasting life.
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Winston » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:03 pm

An excerpt from Darryl Sloan's book "I, Universe" about what he thinks of Christians who try to use fear to get people to believe. Very good analysis.

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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Adama » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:55 pm

AT 5:32, he basically says he doesn't want God because he wants to live by his own rules. He wants to be able to do whatever it is he wants to do. That's what he calls freedom of thought and belief. That's his problem. He doesn't want to walk the narrow path, which really means he wants to sin. That's why he is willing to throw everything away.

Two quotes show this: "A belief system you've worked out with your own mind", "to make your own judgment calls on"... "what is right and wrong". He's upset that Christianity has already "worked it out for us". He doesn't want the truth. He openly stated it. He wants to do whatever he wants. He doesn't want God if it means living by God's rules. That is all he is saying. Of course to this guy it means that God doesn't exist.

The reason why he can't believe hell is real may be because he lacks even the tiniest amount of discernment in his soul to distinguish truth from untruth, because he's refused the truth when he refused to get saved. Jesus is the truth. You can't see the truth unless Jesus gives it to you in your heart and soul through the Holy Ghost. That's why many fools always come to the wrong conclusions. The Holy Ghost isn't with them, and even the whole idea that God can be real is hate speech for them. God is not in their hearts means they are going to have a hard time perceiving the truth. And these fools who say that God isn't real or can't exist have closed their hearts to God.

That is just another form of Pascal's Wager counterargument, which you have posted, Winston.
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby starchild5 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:46 am

Winston..I have to disagree with you here.

Bible was written by highly advances beings with bad intention or you can say non-humans. Its extremely powerful with no single mistake whatsoever...You have to think like a non-human who would want to subjugate other species.

The confusion in bible is deliberate, the contradictions are all deliberate, the Jesus story does not add up is all cleverly calculated and executed..THEY KNOW OUR BRAIN......

I used to struggle a lot with Christianity and the Bible when I was in my late teens and early 20's. It tore me apart.

I had the same feelings...It was nearly impossible to come out of bible...Its a master book...Once you go init...Its impossible to come out of it for many unless you are a new arrival. The jesus story is deliberately created to not make any sense, without proof, there is proof but really there isn't....You have to just believe the WORD and go with the flow...everything is like in between...its all calculated as you will not have a ground to stand on when you really wanted it which would make you vulnerable to manipulation.

There are no Contradictions in bible..everything is PUT IN PLACE FOR A REASON...

All religious books are designed to suck your soul away...Its a poison...1 million times powerful than nuclear bomb...Stay Away from Christianity, Islam, present day Hinduism, Buddhism etc etc...It appeals to a particular spot in your brain which subjugates you to eternal slavery.

There is really NO TIME FOR ALL THIS ANYMORE...If it does not make sense to your brain capacity..It just doesn't...MOVE ON...Bible is a PSY-OP...the BIG con...They created gigantic churches for that reason....If it is BIG...people will believe it...

A lie has to be BIG...
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Adama » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:40 pm

Winston wrote:Great questions. I had a much deeper struggle with my Christian faith though, during my teens. It was a slow recovery after i deconverted from it. I posted my story online. Many people have found my story moving and touching, including Christians.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Christian_Story.htm


For the next few years, little by little I gradually developed the courage to read books with ideas from other religions and New Age beliefs as well. For a while, each time I picked up one of these books, the words "Satan" and "blasphemy" would come to mind, but I as I learned more and became more confident in my new knowledge, those fears lessened and eventually diminished.


You kept at it until that part was shut. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them up. This may have been when your mind became alienated from God, Winston. You were getting warnings, multiple warnings that what you were getting into was both Satanic and blasphemy. Yet you kept it up until those reminders of God just went away. All this is after you already accepted that Taoism is of Satan based on your previous Christian beliefs, yet you embraced it anyway.

Then Winston really believes that Murphy's Law is caused by artificial, alien intelligence, or many gods, or karma.

It was all weird to me and my Christian world view taught that Satan was behind these kind of things. But I thought oh well, being a Christian never helped me through those 2 hellish years anyway, so why not give Satan a chance at helping me?


You blamed God when you should have blamed yourself.

I couldn't get around the house or do normal things without performing rituals to cancel out bad thoughts over and over again.


There is no Christian ritual like this. When you performed this ritual, you were asking for exactly what happened to you. Performance of ritual is worship, but you did not perform it in service to God. That's how you got in trouble. You thought you were serving God. You were serving someone else. Just as chanting, yoga and meditation all invite those same things to happen to others.
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Kradmelder » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:41 pm

Winston, many of your threads are doubts or questions about Christianity, or new ways to find it. It says in your heart you are truly a Christian, just a little confused. Every Christian goes through this question of faith.

Perhaps if you look inside yourself and less outside you will find your answers because you are already Christian. I can see you are, even if you can't. You just have a need to question when all that is needed is faith. But God gave you free will to question. Even though you already know the answer. Be at peace brother. You are far more Christian than many bums in the pew on Sunday as you truly want to justify your faith. To others? To yourself? There is no need. It already comes through for others to see.

My big issue would be with the whole Calvanistic approach and being already saved. This would include child baptism. So if I'm saved, I can carry on as I Wish? That is why I ended up choosing Baptist. It involves a choice from me and my own commitment. I do go to Methodist as well (must as my exs church and law is kids go to mother's church after divorce. No problem to me but i don't like the bands and entertainment aspect) and NGK (afrikaans calvinist church similar to Methodist or presbyterian). But no happy clappy or non ordained charlatans.
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Winston » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:39 pm

starchild5 wrote:Winston..I have to disagree with you here.

Bible was written by highly advances beings with bad intention or you can say non-humans. Its extremely powerful with no single mistake whatsoever...You have to think like a non-human who would want to subjugate other species.

The confusion in bible is deliberate, the contradictions are all deliberate, the Jesus story does not add up is all cleverly calculated and executed..THEY KNOW OUR BRAIN......

I used to struggle a lot with Christianity and the Bible when I was in my late teens and early 20's. It tore me apart.

I had the same feelings...It was nearly impossible to come out of bible...Its a master book...Once you go init...Its impossible to come out of it for many unless you are a new arrival. The jesus story is deliberately created to not make any sense, without proof, there is proof but really there isn't....You have to just believe the WORD and go with the flow...everything is like in between...its all calculated as you will not have a ground to stand on when you really wanted it which would make you vulnerable to manipulation.

There are no Contradictions in bible..everything is PUT IN PLACE FOR A REASON...

All religious books are designed to suck your soul away...Its a poison...1 million times powerful than nuclear bomb...Stay Away from Christianity, Islam, present day Hinduism, Buddhism etc etc...It appeals to a particular spot in your brain which subjugates you to eternal slavery.

There is really NO TIME FOR ALL THIS ANYMORE...If it does not make sense to your brain capacity..It just doesn't...MOVE ON...Bible is a PSY-OP...the BIG con...They created gigantic churches for that reason....If it is BIG...people will believe it...

A lie has to be BIG...


What do you mean there are no contradictions in the Bible? Why do you say that? There clearly are contradictions, many of them are irrefutable too. There are even different versions of the same Bible manuscripts. The reason there are contradictions is because the Bible is not one book, it's 66 books written by different people in different time periods, so of course there will be discrepancies. It's to be expected. The contradictions are not usually within the same book, but between different books inside the Bible.

Why would contradictions be deliberate? They discredit the Bible. Wouldn't a book free of contradictions be more credible and appeal to intelligent people? I don't see the advantage in deliberate contradictions. But Christians tend to be so mentally hijacked that they don't see them, whereas non-believers seem them easily.

But you are right that the Bible is ultimate mind control though. It somehow hijacks your mind in a way that very few things can. So it has unusual power. Look at Adama for instance. What gives it that power? I can't find a logical explanation for it.

Likewise, how does Islam make its followers so passionate and militant, like they want to go out and conquer the world for Islam? It must have some power in order to make people feel so passionately like that. It's clearly not logical or explainable by conventional explanations.

Any idea Starchild?
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Winston » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:28 pm

Adama wrote:
Winston wrote:Great questions. I had a much deeper struggle with my Christian faith though, during my teens. It was a slow recovery after i deconverted from it. I posted my story online. Many people have found my story moving and touching, including Christians.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Christian_Story.htm


For the next few years, little by little I gradually developed the courage to read books with ideas from other religions and New Age beliefs as well. For a while, each time I picked up one of these books, the words "Satan" and "blasphemy" would come to mind, but I as I learned more and became more confident in my new knowledge, those fears lessened and eventually diminished.


You kept at it until that part was shut. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them up. This may have been when your mind became alienated from God, Winston. You were getting warnings, multiple warnings that what you were getting into was both Satanic and blasphemy. Yet you kept it up until those reminders of God just went away. All this is after you already accepted that Taoism is of Satan based on your previous Christian beliefs, yet you embraced it anyway.

Then Winston really believes that Murphy's Law is caused by artificial, alien intelligence, or many gods, or karma.

It was all weird to me and my Christian world view taught that Satan was behind these kind of things. But I thought oh well, being a Christian never helped me through those 2 hellish years anyway, so why not give Satan a chance at helping me?


You blamed God when you should have blamed yourself.

I couldn't get around the house or do normal things without performing rituals to cancel out bad thoughts over and over again.


There is no Christian ritual like this. When you performed this ritual, you were asking for exactly what happened to you. Performance of ritual is worship, but you did not perform it in service to God. That's how you got in trouble. You thought you were serving God. You were serving someone else. Just as chanting, yoga and meditation all invite those same things to happen to others.


Why should I have blamed myself? For what? For 2 hellish years in high school? I did nothing to cause them. I was in a toxic environment and nothing helped me. I felt God had abandoned me. It started in the summer of 1987. After I went to Taiwan, when I came back I felt different. I couldn't get back on fire for the Lord. I think what tore me apart was telling my relatives they were going to hell if they didn't accept Christ and feeling like a fool for it afterward. I could not reconcile a good just God with one that would send people to hell for all eternity, to suffer eternal torment without end. You know it makes no sense. Why would God want to torment anyone for an eternity? It sounds like the ultimate control by fear.

Plus I felt accepted in Taiwan whereas in the US, it was all toxic. No one liked me for me. No one cared about me. It felt alienating and I didn't know why. I could only blame myself, because that's what everyone does when they feel alienated.

Then my church and youth group started sucking in 1988. The people had changed and the new people seemed racist and made me feel excluded. It felt more and more cliquish. So I didn't even have a good youth group or church anymore. I felt like they just tolerated me and didn't really care for me. No true friends. I didn't know why though. High school environment was toxic. No one liked you for you. Yet you didn't know how to blame the environment, only yourself.

So everything went down hill sophomore year in 1988. Then in junior year in 1989, it got many times worse. All my friends ditched me and the school work became harder than before, yet I had no energy to do it. All I had was loneliness and alienation. I couldn't concentrate on harder schoolwork while being depressed. So my grades plummeted. That's when the OCD rituals got much worse. Two years earlier, my OCD rituals started out of nowhere. Then in 1989 they got much worse and took up hours of my time each day. I hated it. It felt like hell. The dark side of my life had arrived. I didn't know how to handle it. God wouldn't help. How is that my fault stupid Adama?!

Those rituals I did were part of OCD, had nothing to do with religion. Did you misunderstand Adama? Do you know what OCD is? Are you even an educated man? Or do you only know the Bible?

When the big earthquake of 1989 hit California, I lay there too depressed to move or care about it. I was hoping the roof over me would fall down and end my life so I could be out of my misery. It was that bad, yeah.

Eventually I dropped out of school and went to a rehab center in the hospital, which was filled mostly with druggies. I didn't really belong there, but my parents didn't know what to do with me. I enjoyed the hospital though. It had a nice swimming pool, volleyball, good food in the cafeteria, a nice hotel like room for me, arts and crafts, recreation room where I kicked everyone's ass at chess, a positive environment, etc. I enjoyed it there. It was friendly and I was living in luxury. I was sad to leave.

Then I went to another high school to get a fresh start, but just a few classes. No one bullied me there since they were from poorer families. After that I went to Taiwan for a year in 1990. There I felt accepted and free of the toxic vibe in high school. And had some friends too. So I was able to evolve and grow to be what I am. I became a vegetarian too. It helped clear my head. I began to be filled with ideas in my head, like a writer. Being out of such a majorly toxic environment like high school helped me heal and grow a lot. I was in the worst environment and the most incompatible environment in high school. That's murphy's law, always being placed in the most incompatible environment. I never experienced any bullying in Palo Alto and San Jose. If I had stayed there, none of this would have happened probably. Not all schools have bullying you know. Some don't. I don't know why.

In Taiwan, my mom went to a Taoist temple and did some rituals on me prescribed by the priest there. She felt that I was possessed, and still does today. She seems fixated on demonic or spiritual possession by dead souls for some reason. Even after the spell, the priest said I'd get better, but she was still fixated on the concept of possession. Even still is today. She told me that multiple psychics, including one taxi driver, said that I was possessed by dead souls, so it must be true.

You need to understand the real story Adama. Not just see what you want to see and accuse me like an asshole. Geez. There is no fricking way you can blame anything on me. Everything went south for me in 1989. I did nothing to cause that. I always go with the flow.

Regardless, when I came back to the US, my OCD had diminished a lot. I was able to function again, without any meds. Simply being abroad away from the toxic environment of high school, helped a lot. Psychologists should take note of that. With a clear mind, I was able to see the discrepancies and paradoxes in the Bible, which bothered me for a long time, and realize that it can't be true, there MUST be another answer. I felt SURE of it. That's when I felt FREE and CONFIDENT finally to step away from Christianity and seek other answers and not take it so seriously as absolute truth anymore. I just KNEW that there had to be other answers. That's how I was able to overcome my fears of "heresy" as Adama would put it, whereas Adama clearly has not become free, he is still attached and living in fear of his religion.

Did you read the "boy in Africa scenario" that I thought about on the plane, which finally freed my mind? If not, here it is again:

"There's something very wrong with Christianity here. I've known this a long time but was always afraid to face it. But since I value integrity of thought and a clear conscience, I might as well be honest now and face it no matter how blasphemous it may be. Now, I know that according to Christian teaching, billions of people out there in the world are going to go to hell because they're sinners and don't even know it. But why is it their fault when they don't even know it and were born with it? Sin to the Bible is any imperfection that we have, but since we were not born perfect no one can ever be perfect, so then why is it righteous to send them all to hell for an eternity for something they were born with? That's like sending Zebras to hell for being born with stripes! It just doesn't make sense no matter how hard you try to justify it. Now let's put myself in the place of a nonbeliever. Suppose I was a boy in Africa some time in the past who had lived and died without ever hearing the Gospel. This means that no matter how good or bad or anything I was, I was guaranteed to go to hell anyway not only because I was never saved, but because I was born a sinner as a result of the Fall of Man and never even knew it? This means that I would wake up someday before the judgment throne of God about to be thrown into hell for something I never even knew existed, which was sin. After being thrown into hell, I would be tormented for billions and trillions and zillions of years and beyond without end. All for something I never even knew existed. This would be the fate of billions of people who had lived and died throughout history without being saved! Now if I were that boy in Africa and had that fate, would I feel that that was fair in any way at all? To be honest, I wouldn't feel that that was fair in the least bit. In fact I would feel that that was 1000 percent unfair!!!!!! Something is definitely wrong here. Something is inherently not right about Christian theology. I am absolutely SURE about that! There's no question about it. There MUST be other answers out there somewhere that makes more sense than this! And I fully intend to find those answers from here on!"

At that time I knew that these thoughts I was having were blasphemous to the Christian faith, but since I was so SURE that there was something inherently wrong here, that certainty gave me the courage to continue to think these things through. That's when my search for truth, meaning and answers began.

Btw, my OCD is not really standard OCD. It's more like an obsession with perfection and non-interruption. You see, when something happens that I don't expect, like a sudden sound or itch on my body, it BREAKS my mental flow and once broken, it's like a string is cut. I can't get back to the flow of what I was doing before the interruption. So I engage in rituals to take me back in time to before the interruption so I can visualize it not happening in the first place, so that I can try to regain the flow again that was lost. It's very nervewracking and psychology has no name for it. When I told psychologists about this they had no name for it, only theories of possible combinations of mental disorders.

But what I have is actually common with deep thinkers and writers and philosophers. Arthur Schopenhauer mentioned it in his essay "On Noise" about how all deep thinking writers complain of noise bothering them a lot, more so than the average person, because somehow, deep thinkers cannot tune out noise like an average person can, as though they lacked some filtering mechanism inside their head that others have. I don't know why. But I doubt it has anything to do with demonic possession.

Also, it tends to be very minimal when I'm happy. But when I'm unhappy or depressed, like I get in Taiwan and USA, then it gets worse. So my mood and happiness level affect this weird undefined disorder a lot.

Anyway, try to understand my situation for what it is, not what you want it to be according to your religious beliefs Adama.
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Adama » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:36 am

So you were never able to tune out things. Any time you're thinking and you get distracted, you can't simply start thinking about that same thing again. Instead, you must perform rituals of some kind in order to get those thoughts back?

What are the rituals?

So this isn't just an obsession with washing your hands every two minutes or checking to see if the door is locked? Somehow I get the impression your rituals are very, very deep.
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Adama » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:43 am

"There's something very wrong with Christianity here. I've known this a long time but was always afraid to face it. But since I value integrity of thought and a clear conscience, I might as well be honest now and face it no matter how blasphemous it may be. Now, I know that according to Christian teaching, billions of people out there in the world are going to go to hell because they're sinners and don't even know it. But why is it their fault when they don't even know it and were born with it? Sin to the Bible is any imperfection that we have, but since we were not born perfect no one can ever be perfect, so then why is it righteous to send them all to hell for an eternity for something they were born with? That's like sending Zebras to hell for being born with stripes! It just doesn't make sense no matter how hard you try to justify it. Now let's put myself in the place of a nonbeliever. Suppose I was a boy in Africa some time in the past who had lived and died without ever hearing the Gospel. This means that no matter how good or bad or anything I was, I was guaranteed to go to hell anyway not only because I was never saved, but because I was born a sinner as a result of the Fall of Man and never even knew it? This means that I would wake up someday before the judgment throne of God about to be thrown into hell for something I never even knew existed, which was sin. After being thrown into hell, I would be tormented for billions and trillions and zillions of years and beyond without end. All for something I never even knew existed. This would be the fate of billions of people who had lived and died throughout history without being saved! Now if I were that boy in Africa and had that fate, would I feel that that was fair in any way at all? To be honest, I wouldn't feel that that was fair in the least bit. In fact I would feel that that was 1000 percent unfair!!!!!! Something is definitely wrong here. Something is inherently not right about Christian theology. I am absolutely SURE about that! There's no question about it. There MUST be other answers out there somewhere that makes more sense than this! And I fully intend to find those answers from here on!"


It's easy to be saved. All you have to do is believe that Christ died for all our sins and that it is not of works. Part of the problem may be spreading the word, but the real problem, as you know yourself, Winston, is that most people simply don't want to believe the word. There is no work required and it is the easiest religion to become a member of. Unlike other religions, which rely on works of self righteous for salvation.

If a civilization abandoned God generations ago, or killed off all the true Christians and ran them off, well guess what is going to happen to all the children who are born into that nation? And it will be their fathers' faults for killing the prophets or from turning away from the holy commandment to be saved. It's the parents' faults the children don't receive the Word. And their parents before them.

Just as there are missionaries going all over Africa today, God's Word was always spread throughout the known world. This isn't hard to believe, if you can see that even trade took place.

Therefore I don't even accept this as a possibility. Even the heathens in India and the Muslim mass murders of Arabia know about Jesus, despite the fact that they'd kill you if you mention He is God.
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby Adama » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:49 am

Winston wrote:Btw, my OCD is not really standard OCD. It's more like an obsession with perfection and non-interruption. You see, when something happens that I don't expect, like a sudden sound or itch on my body, it BREAKS my mental flow and once broken, it's like a string is cut. I can't get back to the flow of what I was doing before the interruption. So I engage in rituals to take me back in time to before the interruption so I can visualize it not happening in the first place, so that I can try to regain the flow again that was lost. It's very nervewracking and psychology has no name for it. When I told psychologists about this they had no name for it, only theories of possible combinations of mental disorders.

But what I have is actually common with deep thinkers and writers and philosophers. Arthur Schopenhauer mentioned it in his essay "On Noise" about how all deep thinking writers complain of noise bothering them a lot, more so than the average person, because somehow, deep thinkers cannot tune out noise like an average person can, as though they lacked some filtering mechanism inside their head that others have. I don't know why. But I doubt it has anything to do with demonic possession.


But you see, even the psychologists find your case peculiar. There's no category to even put you into. Why would you call me stupid for that, when even the professionals don't have a label for you?

This sounds extraordinary, Winston. Please tell me more about these rituals. I will have to read up and study for a few minutes on the nature of OCD. But to my mind, OCD doesn't present itself in the way you describe.

This may indeed be something that is unique to you, Winston. Did they tell you if they know of others? Besides you know, the genius great men of history you're otherwise lumped in with. I mean living people who are commoners the psychologists know. Did you ask how common or rare this is? I mean, how many uncategorizable patients do they get in a lifetime?
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby The_Adventurer » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:07 am

Nomad wrote:2. Good question. Secular Roman Historians speak of Jesus existence and "this cult of Christianity" that rose up.


I believe Jesus existed, but this is the kind of statement that gives christians a bad rap with those unaware. There is not one single historical document, outside of religious text, that speaks of Jesus. In fact, the biggest problem mainstream history has with the issue is that the most prominent historians, who actually lived in the same place, at the same time as these events, make no mention of him whatsoever.
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Re: I struggle with contradictions of Christianity

Postby retiredfrank » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:08 am

The_Adventurer wrote:There is not one single historical document, outside of religious text, that speaks of Jesus. In fact, the biggest problem mainstream history has with the issue is that the most prominent historians, who actually lived in the same place, at the same time as these events, make no mention of him whatsoever.


Both Tacitus and Josephus mention Jesus.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/nonchristianaccounts.html

There are no historians who lived in Judea at the time of Jesus whose works have survived, much less prominent historians. But no reason to think Tacitus, in particular, would falsify events. Josephus is also very trustworthy.
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