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Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in America!

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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Kradmelder » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:37 pm

Winston, just for my understanding; so Osteen charges $15 to listen to him. You say it is not a lot. Now let us use the international Big Mac index to regionalise it so we see it as relative to income. Or is it regionalize :lol: ?. From the last time I was in USA a Big Mac Meal was $2 (not supersized for fat yanks lol). Maybe it is now $3?. If we say $3 that is 5 Big Mac meals. A Big Mac meal here is R50, about $3. So Osteen charges 5 meals. What people put in the plate in church here is R20, R50, or R100 is very generous. 5 Big Mac meals of R250 is really shelling out. Maybe rock stars charge that for a concert but I wouldn't know as I hate rock music. That is one big lump of money if some pastor were to charge that. To be honest, what do americans put in the plate? I have no idea. Is $15 a lot for one ''sermon'? What are the payments on his jet and sports cars? $15 would buy a meal in a very fancy restaurant. For 2. Or for one with a nice bottle of wine. Or a nice shirt or trousers. So it takes the shirt off your back in biblical terms.

Now let us look at reaching the poor. A very poor person here will earn R3000-R6000 per month. Middle class 10 times that. what is the income of the working poor in the USA? The tithe by the bible is 10%. That means R300 per month for a poor person. So for one session Osteen takes your entire tithe, if he wants to reach the poor. How much of that tithe goes back to the poor, as the bible stipulates? And then he takes food from the mouths of their children as R3000 is not much to feed a family. The poor don't have internet to listen to his sermons online. It would still not be free as Internet would cost nearly R200 per month, never mind the other costs for a computer, phone line etc. So in effect, such pastors only reach those with money to shell out, which I believe is their intention. He is not interested in those whose income is low wage by the hour, but rather the philosophy of there is one born every minute.

That puts him in the league of jewish snake oil salesmen peddling confidence and junk bonds to those desperate enough to part with money for hope.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:23 pm

Adama wrote:
Winston wrote:Adama, aren't you a Christian? Why aren't you supporting Osteen since he preaches and promotes YOUR RELIGION? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? lol. Just because a man is rich and successful doesn't mean he's bad or a charlatan. Some people are just good, so good at what they do that they make millions. What's wrong with that? Isn't that part of capitalism? What about JP Morgan or Andrew Carnegie? Were they bad men too just because they made millions? Or Bill Gates and Steve Jobs? Why can't some people be successful in your book? Is it because you are envious of them?


At best the man is just a pop psychologist. He is more similar to Dr Phil than he is to a real preacher. His Christian doctrine is very scant to barely existent. He teaches the same New Age doctrine that you're used to, which is why you like him. If Joel Osteen preached true Christianity then everyone in this world would hate him, and he would not have a public platform to preach from.

  • True preachers are hated in this world by the majority of the people, and very few people are willing to listen. There's your proof right there. The unbelieving world runs away from Christians, Christianity and Christ. You know this, Winston.
  • Also, you know the Jews would not put him on TV if he was leading people to Christ. The Jews hate our Lord. Osteen is not leading them to Christ, but to worship money.
  • Osteen says that we should have our best lives now on this earth. This is contrary to Christianity, because a Christian's best life will be in heaven. The only way a person can have their best life now is if they are going to hell when they die. Osteen should know this.
  • Also, although being a millionaire by itself isn't bad, Jesus Himself tells us that it is very difficult for rich men to enter into heaven. You see how Osteen preaches about accumulating riches more than he talks about Christ or Christian doctrine.
  • He lets his wife get up there and preach, which is explicitly forbidden by God.

I also find it interesting how unbelievers are so willing to throw around words like hypocrite. Because I don't support a fake, millionaire "Christian" on TV that makes me a hypocrite?

That's the thing, Winston. The reason why you don't recognize a false pastor from a real one, is because all of the preachers of non-Christianity are false prophets. If you ever encountered a real preacher, Winston, you would run away as soon as he mentioned Christ's name to you. Or as soon as he tried to show you a Bible verse, you'd run. So stop pretending like you're into Christ. You're just into sweet sounding words that tickle your ears.


You aren't making sense again. Dr. Phil is NOTHING like Joel Osteen. Dr. Phil brings out stupid retarded people on his show so he can chew them out for doing the dumbest things. Dr. Phil talks down on people and tells them what's wrong with them. He uses a lot of negative reinforcement and is very pro-liberal and pro-feminist. That's why most men don't like him. He is more like Jerry Springer and does a trash talk show promoting liberal values. Joel Osteen is much more positive and uplifting. He tells people to trust in God to fix their problems. He doesn't talk anyone down. So that's a VERY BAD COMPARISON Adama.

Of course Joel Osteen is not going to preach what you want, which is fire and brimstone preaching, like Jonathan Edward did in the 19th Century. Come on now. He's not gonna tell everyone that they are going to hell unless they repent and accept Jesus. Even Billy Graham doesn't say that way. It's not tactful. It's negative and threatening and turns people off. Osteen is a brilliant marketing and public relations man. That's why he's successful. He knows that the key to success is: Telling people what they want to hear and making people feel good about themselves. If you do that, you'll get very far in life. He's not stupid you know.

You can't expect any "true preacher" to follow your version of "true Christianity". Come on now. There are hundreds of Christian denominations. Some of them are liberal too and even allow gay pastors. There are so many variations of Christianity. The whole religion has been changed and reshaped many times by many people and many churches, as we've explained to you Adama. Jesus' original teaching is not what you believe today, Adama. It was changed by the Apostle Paul, early Church, Emperor Constantine, the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church, etc.

Everyone has their own variation of what "true Christianity" is and what they want to preach. Anyone can take any Bible verse they want to support anything they want, including slavery and war. No one takes the whole Bible literally. Everyone decides which parts they want to take figuratively and which to take literally.

I don't agree with you that a good preacher should teach that you should live for a better life in the afterlife rather than this one. That would be more of a scam, because we don't know what to expect from the afterlife for sure, or if there even will be one. So anyone who tells you to forget this life and to only live for paradise in the next life, is pretty much a scam, because if he's wrong, no one can come back from the dead to expose him. Suppose you are wrong. Then the life you wasted here will be wasted. So it's better to live for today, for now, than to wait for future fulfillment. Haven't you read "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle? Living in the present moment is true spirituality.

I don't see that Osteen tells people to worship money. He tells them to trust in God to help them with their problems. You should not lie and misrepresent Osteen. Lying is wrong and is a violation of one of the Ten Commandments. You know that don't you Adama?

The "rich man cannot enter the kingdom of God" thing has been addressed. Christians say that it means those who trust in riches, not those who have riches.

There are many verses in the Bible that no one would take literally. What about the parts where Jesus says that if your eyes or hands or body parts cause you to sin, then to cut them off? No one takes that literally. They take that allegorically. There are verses where Jesus or Paul tells Christians to sell all that they have and give to the poor too. Yet no one takes that literally. They make excuses why they should not. No one wants to give away all their money and possessions.

Maybe Osteen isn't a true preacher by your definition. So what? He's a motivational speaker too. That's part of what he is. A man can be multiple things, not just one. The bottom line is that if he helps people, then that's the important thing. But you prefer to focus on anal retentive stuff Adama. I still want to see proof that he's a con man. Maybe some of his practices are unethical. But no business is completely ethical, especially if it's very big and successful. You gotta show some real proof that he's a bad person or deceptive, not just state trivial things or because you disagree with his version of Christianity. You gotta prove willful deception on his part, which isn't easy.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:32 pm

Adama wrote:Dear Winston, since you have now called me a hypocrite, I would like to pose something to you. I would be extremely disappointed now, if you didn't stop the worship of your false gods. Now you should turn to Christ. You see Christianity as valid. You're listening to this Christian pastor and you like him. If this is the case, you should now become a Christian again.

To not become a Christian, while uplifting this man as a good Christian prophet, certainly seems like hypocrisy to me.


Put your money where your mouth is and become Christian, since you like this Christian preaching so much. You would not hear me saying how much I like Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Toaism, Confusianiscm or any other false works based religion, because they are each deceptions of Satan.

Are you not a hypocrite by betraying whatever pagan religion you belong to? You've abandoned your false gods to visit the real God.

You would have betrayed Satan* by recommending Osteen, if Osteen were a true prophet.

* In your essay on why you left Christianity, you explicitly state that you knew by Christianity that the false religion you were going into is Satanic.


You aren't making sense again Adama and are very narrow minded. Just because I said that Joel Osteen is a great public speaker and motivational speaker, and is very talented at what he does, doesn't mean I ought to become a Christian. I don't get your logic. I agree that Christianity has value, but so do other religions. If they didn't help people, they wouldn't be around. Duh. But that doesn't mean that I agree with everything in Christianity or that it's the only way to God, and that all other religions are false. I've already stated my views many times.

I never even said this man Osteen is a "true Christian or true preacher". I merely said he's a great motivational speaker who is very successful in his business and church. Obviously he brings value to people's lives and helps people. That's a logical assumption. It has nothing to do with my religious views. What constitutes a "true Christian" is highly subjective and subject to interpretation. There are hundreds of Christian denominations and variations of Christianity.

I told you, when I said that in my deconversion story, it was a "what the heck" type of comment running through my head, not a literal official statement. Stop twisting things. Come on. Be reasonable here.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:50 pm

Adama wrote:
Winston wrote:Well why not? Of course I disagree with some things in Christianity, but I also believe in freedom of religion too, don't you? If it helps people get through the day and brings meaning and purpose to people's lives, then that's good, more power to them. But it doesn't mean it's right for everyone or the "only way to God" as Adama claims. So I have a more balanced view of Christianity, not the extreme views like Christian fundamentalists and militant Atheists have.


Too bad for you, Winston, but there is nothing wrong with fundamentalism. It is just they have been demonized by the idiots of Westboro and other false Christians (Christians who believe more similar to you than what it is written in the Bible: that salvation is by works of the law instead of simply by faith alone).

Winston wrote:Joseph Smith may have been charming and charismatic, but we can't compare him because there are no videos or audios of him since he preached his sermons in the 1840's. :p


He is said to have been a Freemason, and we all know the Mormons aren't even Christians but something far, far different. ( Mormons believe Christ and Lucifer are brothers, that everyone will become gods of their own planets, that there is sex taking place in heaven and children being born, and tons of other nonsense that Christians don't believe.) Joseph Smith has unfortunately sent many of his followers to hell, and many of those who are still alive have had their eyes darkened because of their acceptance of his doctrine, which is a doctrine from demons.

Winston wrote:Aren't you an Atheist by the way? If so, do you agree with militant Atheists that religion is completely unnecessary, untrue and has no value? If so, please read my article on 4 extraordinary things about Christianity that Atheists can't explain.


This is one thing that should perplex me about you, Winston, but it doesn't. On the one hand you'll say how great Christianity is. On the other hand, you have written and compiled pages of essays "debunking" Christianity. You see this scatter braining as a good thing, as pan theism. I see it for what it is, just a demonstration of how your mind works.


I told you already, what's considered "true Christianity" is VERY SUBJECTIVE and subject to interpretation and varies between individuals. Even the most devout sincere Christians disagree on doctrines and Bible verses, even though they all think they are filled with the Holy Spirit and that it's helping them interpret the Bible.

So I don't want to debate with you on what is "true Christianity". Such a debate would go around in circles and never end. That's not the intent of this thread. My question to everyone here is to provide proof that Osteen is a fraud and deliberately deceiving people. The man may have a few unethical or shady practices, but all businesses do. None of them are perfect. You gotta prove that he is a deliberate deceiver BIG TIME, not just a little shady or unethical. You can dig up dirt on almost anybody, if you wanted to, even on Tony Robbins or Billy Graham. No one is perfect.

You also gotta show that Osteen is more of a scammer than a genuine person. Maybe he believes he's genuinely helping people and that God is rewarding him with riches. Who knows. But so far, none of you have provided any proof that he's a deliberate deceiver, at least not for the most part.

Btw, just because a man is a Freemason doesn't mean he's bad. Most Masons at the lower levels are well meaning citizens. But the upper Masons and inner circles were infiltrated by the Illuminati in the 1700's, which George Washington acknowledged. So just because Joseph Smith was a Freemason, doesn't mean much. If he was a Mason, then why didn't the Masons protect him from persecution and banishment?

Richard Nixon was a Freemason too, yet he was forced to resign from office and charged with crimes. Even if you are a Mason, if you don't follow the plans of the elite, you will be taken down. Nixon ended the Vietnam War and opened relations with China, against the wishes of the elite, so that's why they probably brought him down on charges that were no big deal.

You are so black and white. Why should I either be for Christianity or against it? You sound so medieval, like George Bush when he said "you are either with us or against us". I wrote that Christianity has value and power to change lives, but it's not the only way to God, other faiths are valid too. And the BIble contains human error, bias and politics too, since the Bible was written by humans after all, even if it was divinely inspired. Many people agree and hold the same position. It's not hard to understand. Why is such a simple thing beyond you? Everyone else here understands my position.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:09 pm

Kradmelder wrote:Having his wife do ministry and preaching:

1 Corinthians 14:34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak but must be in submission, as the law says. if they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

The hot wife to sell the ministry and preach:

1 Timothy 2:9 I also want women to dress modestly....not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

So what part of Osteen being a false prophet don't you get? Sorry, but I just see him as a charlatan using Christianity to get rich.

To see his wife on the pulpit with all her baubles is a mockery of Christianity.

I see by the spell check that it uses american English. To me, much of that is bad spelling, but to be expected from people that call petrol a gas LOL. Ask the brits; they invented the language lol. But I do see that i miss some letters and have typos when I can see it on a proper screen. Again, apologies. I can write proper English.


Yeah I know about those verses. But most modern churches don't follow those verses anyway. I went up to a pastor in a Chinese church one time in Fremont, CA in 1992, and brought this up to him, after I saw women preaching during church service. He got mad and chewed me out and said that I can't take everything in the Bible literally and have to have some consistency in Bible interpretation, blah blah. He was pissed though and annoyed at me for questioning him and bringing it up. lol

But again, as I told Adama, there are many variations of Christianity. So I am not going to criticize Osteen for not being a "true Christian" since what a "true Christian" is is very subjective and subject to interpretation. Everyone takes verses they don't like as allegory or situational (such as the verses above) and verses they do like literally. There are verses where Jesus says to pluck out your eyes and cut your hands off if they cause you to sin. But who follows that literally? Do you? There are verses where Jesus says to sell all that you have and give to the poor too. Do you follow that literally? Of course not. So you make excuses not to.

Well some of your spelling mistakes had nothing to do with British vs. American English. They were just plain basic errors. And you forgot to put spaces after your periods too. :p

The link i sent you is also a 'special event' not in the pastors' home town. It is a weekend gathering well over 1000 km away from the main pastor, Angus Buchan. Yet none charge admission. They won't rent an expensive venue as Christianity is not about ostentatious displays and big venues. Just Christians coming together to worship, in the cold, rain and mud if they must.

I need not lie about Osteen. He exposes himself enough that anyone who reads his bible can see enough. Yes he is clever and financially successful. Jews usually are. It does not mean he speaks the truth. In biblical times he would have been one of the Pharisees. And you should know what Jesus said about these 'religious leaders'.

God gave you Free Will. Therefore I respect your right to worship as you please. Whether you see it as through Yehovah, Allah, Jesus or Mary. Just please don't see it as through Osteen or such, and don't give them any money. If you feel strongly about the tithe, give it directly to charities.


I told you, costs of rent in the US is different from South Africa. Why don't you try renting a big sports stadium and holding an event there, and not charging admission and only asking for donations? What if not enough people donate or show up? Then you'd lose money. You wanna take that risk?

Even if Osteen charging for admission is unBiblical, so what? It's not like he's lying about the admission fee. If he charges, it's up to you whether you want to pay it or not. He's not hiding it. If you want to claim he's a charlatan, you got to prove that he deliberately lies or deceives. Not whether he follows the Bible or not. "True Christianity" is very subjective. There are hundreds of variations and denominations. I do not agree that there is only one version of "true Christianity". You and Adama may, but I don't, so you can't make that appeal to me. :p

I don't think Osteen would be a Pharisee in Biblical times. The Pharisees were very judgmental and exclusive and snobs. Osteen invites all to his church and does not condemn others. The Pharisees condemned Jesus and crucified him. I don't see Osteen doing that to anyone. He just preaches a feel good message and tells you to trust God. I don't see the comparison at all. Bizarre.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby droid » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:15 pm

Winston, the thing is that the stuff Osteen offers on his long sermon is common sense and could be delivered in five minutes. But he chooses to aggrandize it and cash in on it because people are stupid, and most importantly, because people lack and are thirsty for social interaction/sense of community, as you well know. IMO this is an unspoken reason why some people join churches. Also the masses sometimes like to be treated like children and thus look for some father figure.

From a free market/libertarian position yeah he's not strictly "ripping off" anybody, and is providing some "value" to vulnerable people.
It's like those MLM schemes to which people join without being coerced. People with some IQ know what's the deal there, but it's impossible to stop that kind of stuff since idiots or desperate people participate of their own "free will".
Last edited by droid on Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:17 pm

Kradmelder wrote:Winston, just for my understanding; so Osteen charges $15 to listen to him. You say it is not a lot. Now let us use the international Big Mac index to regionalise it so we see it as relative to income. Or is it regionalize :lol: ?. From the last time I was in USA a Big Mac Meal was $2 (not supersized for fat yanks lol). Maybe it is now $3?. If we say $3 that is 5 Big Mac meals. A Big Mac meal here is R50, about $3. So Osteen charges 5 meals. What people put in the plate in church here is R20, R50, or R100 is very generous. 5 Big Mac meals of R250 is really shelling out. Maybe rock stars charge that for a concert but I wouldn't know as I hate rock music. That is one big lump of money if some pastor were to charge that. To be honest, what do americans put in the plate? I have no idea. Is $15 a lot for one ''sermon'? What are the payments on his jet and sports cars? $15 would buy a meal in a very fancy restaurant. For 2. Or for one with a nice bottle of wine. Or a nice shirt or trousers. So it takes the shirt off your back in biblical terms.

Now let us look at reaching the poor. A very poor person here will earn R3000-R6000 per month. Middle class 10 times that. what is the income of the working poor in the USA? The tithe by the bible is 10%. That means R300 per month for a poor person. So for one session Osteen takes your entire tithe, if he wants to reach the poor. How much of that tithe goes back to the poor, as the bible stipulates? And then he takes food from the mouths of their children as R3000 is not much to feed a family. The poor don't have internet to listen to his sermons online. It would still not be free as Internet would cost nearly R200 per month, never mind the other costs for a computer, phone line etc. So in effect, such pastors only reach those with money to shell out, which I believe is their intention. He is not interested in those whose income is low wage by the hour, but rather the philosophy of there is one born every minute.

That puts him in the league of jewish snake oil salesmen peddling confidence and junk bonds to those desperate enough to part with money for hope.


That makes no sense. I don't think even the other critics of Osteen here would agree with your bizarre math. First of all, a Big Mac sandwich and a Big Mac meal aren't the same thing. LOL. A Big Mac meal usually includes fries and drink. So why did you count a Big Mac sandwich as a Big Mac meal? LOL (shrugging shoulders). That's odd.

Furthermore, even poor people in the US can afford 15 dollars. 15 dollars is not a price that only well off people can pay. What you smoking? Even college students can afford 15 dollars. Even low wage workers like McDonald's workers can afford it.

Besides, you don't know the cost of renting a huge sports stadium in the US. I do know that such costs in the US cost A LOT to rent. Even renting an auditorium or conference room in a hotel costs a lot. Renting space for public events in the US is VERY EXPENSIVE man. You didn't take that into account. Come to the US and ask around and you'll see. No one here in the forum would deny that.

I think 15 dollars is reasonable, especially for a sports stadium and a highly charismatic preacher that makes you feel good. I would pay it gladly.

Did you know that just going to see a movie in the US costs about 9 or 10 dollars now? All they do is play the film on the projector, yet they way overcharge that much? The US is a ripoff now. Movie theater prices used to be 7 dollars when I was a teen and half of that for a matinee. I would certainly pay a little more to see Osteen speak in public.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:33 pm

Wow check out these images of Joel Osteen. Doesn't he look like a million bucks? LOL. Don't you love his smile, hair, face and height? Doesn't he look so charismatic, charming and inspiring in front of all those thousands of people? LOL

Image

Image

Image

Wow he and his family are even featured on the Hallmark Channel for a special event! Even the Hallmark Channel believes that he's a positive influence on people!

Image

You guys must be in awe of this man and his wonderful family! :) Probably envious too. lol
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:39 pm

Adama,
From Osteen's church's website, it looks like they and you believe in the same things. Take a look.

https://www.lakewoodchurch.com/Pages/new-here/What-We-Believe.aspx

We Believe

The Bible
We believe the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.

The Trinity
We believe in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.

Salvation
We believe Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again.

Water Baptism
We believe water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and a testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Communion
We believe in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.

Growing Relationship
We believe every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God's Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:43 pm

droid wrote:Winston, the thing is that the stuff Osteen offers on his long sermon is common sense and could be delivered in five minutes. But he chooses to aggrandize it and cash in on it because people are stupid, and most importantly, because people lack and are thirsty for social interaction/sense of community, as you well know. IMO this is an unspoken reason why some people join churches. Also the masses sometimes like to be treated like children and thus look for some father figure.

From a free market/libertarian position yeah he's not strictly "ripping off" anybody, and is providing some "value" to vulnerable people.
It's like those MLM schemes to which people join without being coerced. People with some IQ know what's the deal there, but it's impossible to stop that kind of stuff since idiots or desperate people participate of their own "free will".


Yes. Finally a non-hateful opinion about Joel Osteen that sounds reasonable. However, you forget that in public speaking, "it's not what you say, but how you say it". What Osteen says may be common sense, but the way he says it fills people with energy and hope and makes them feel good about themselves. The way he talks energizes people. Listen to him and you will see. So it's not just the words, it's the voice and charisma and the way it's delivered. He says a lot of good things too.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby droid » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:59 pm

That's why I couldn't run for president/dictator, I would start explaining with pie-charts and graphs how and why things need to be changed. But they reject that, they just want slogans, childish parables, fear-mongering, and feel-good stuff :roll:
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Kradmelder » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:38 pm

Winston wrote:
Well some of your spelling mistakes had nothing to do with British vs. American English. They were just plain basic errors. And you forgot to put spaces after your periods too. :p


Sorry Winston this was too funny to resist. It is not a period. It is a full stop. Periods are what women have every month :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm interested in your chinese church. I have never seen such a thing. I actually didn't know such a thing existed in the USA. In my Baptist one the minister will tell women straight that this is a bible based church and if you want bands, entertainment, women as preachers or deacons, to call prostitutes sex workers or sodomites gays you are in the wrong place. A sermon is a sermon, not smooth talking with guitars and bands. You can follow from the bible. It may not draw anywhere near the crowds osteen does, with his feel good please the audience, but it has been around for a long time with a steady congregation. As a divorced man, I also contradict several verses so can never be in any position as well. Fair enough. I made my choices and the consequences are mine.

I can get over a Son of Ham on the pulpit, but a woman or a queer is just plain wrong. Never mind a jew masquerading as a Christian.
Last edited by Kradmelder on Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:40 pm

Adama and Kradmelder,
FYI, here is Joel Osteen's response to your criticisms, documented on Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen

Osteen says that he chooses to focus more on the goodness of God and on living an obedient life rather than on sin.[22] He says that he tries to teach Biblical principles in a simple way, emphasizing the power of love and a positive attitude.[23] When asked why he does not focus more on sin, the devil and hell in detail, Osteen stated in an interview with CBN News:

"When I grew up, the devil was a reason why I had a headache or the devil was the reason I got mad today. We always blamed the devil. I think today when I say the enemy, I like to make it broader. Sometimes the enemy can be our own thoughts. We've trained ourselves the wrong way. Or the enemy can be our own lack of discipline. Some people preach about hell like you're already going there, and to me the Gospel means 'Good News.' I'd rather say God is a God of mercy. So I think the people already know what they're doing wrong, and I certainly believe in hell. But to me, when I see thousands of people before me, it just doesn't come out of me to say, 'You guys are terrible, and you're going to hell.' I'd rather say that God is a God of mercy. You've got to live an obedient life, but for every mistake you’ve made, there's mercy there, and I believe we can do better."[11]


Prosperity gospel criticism

Osteen's sermons and writings are sometimes criticized for promoting prosperity theology, or the prosperity gospel, a belief that material gain is a reward for pious Christians.[31][38][39][40][41][42][43] On October 14, 2007, 60 Minutes ran a twelve-minute segment on Osteen, titled "Joel Osteen Answers his Critics", during which Reformed theologian Michael Horton told CBS News correspondent Byron Pitts that Osteen's message is heresy. Horton stated that the problem with Osteen's message is that it makes religion about us instead of about God.[44]

When asked if he is a prosperity teacher, Osteen responded that if prosperity means God wants people to be blessed and healthy and have good relationships, then he considers himself a prosperity teacher, but if it is about money, he does not. He has specifically stated that he never preaches about money because of the reputation of televangelists.[11]

In an interview with The Christian Post on April 21, 2013, Osteen expressed his sentiments on being perceived as being part of the prosperity gospel. "I get grouped into the prosperity gospel and I never think it's fair, but it's just what it is. I think prosperity, and I've said it 1,000 times, it's being healthy, it's having great children, it's having peace of mind. Money is part of it; and yes, I believe God wants us to excel ... to be blessed so we can be a bigger blessing to others. I feel very rewarded. I wrote a book and sold millions of copies; and Victoria and I were able to help more people than we ever dreamed of. But when I hear the term prosperity gospel, I think people are sometimes saying, 'well, he's just asking for money'."[45]


This line will titillate you guys. lol

As of 2012, Osteen's net worth is reportedly $56,508,500.[29] He lives with his family in a $10,500,000 home.[30]
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:57 pm

This article from the Houston Chronicle will mesmerize and titillate you guys. LOL

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/houston-belief/article/Lakewood-megachurch-pastor-Joel-Osteen-takes-huge-9214955.php

Lakewood megachurch pastor Joel Osteen takes huge stage with positive message for "America's Night of Hope'

By Brooke A. Lewis
September 10, 2016
Updated: September 10, 2016 9:04pm

Image

Image

Pastor Joel Osteen is no stranger to television.

His positive and motivational sermons from one of the largest churches in the country, Lakewood, reach more than ten million Americans each week through the televised sermons Osteen delivers from his Houston megachurch.

But tonight Osteen's audience can see him in a different setting as the pastor and his wife Victoria take viewers on "America's Night of Hope," a TV special airing at 9 on the Hallmark Channel that sets the spiritual couple in Detroit's Comerica Park baseball stadium.

For the past ten years, the Osteens have traveled to venues across the country to deliver an uplifting message in "America's Night of Hope."

The message draws thousands of people to large scale venues like the New York Yankees stadium, the Los Angeles Staples Center and Madison Square Garden.

The Hallmark Channel will air the special for the first time on television, showing the Osteens' stop in Detroit, which they felt was a city especially deserving of the message due to its recent economic struggles.

Osteen also has a new book coming out in October called "Think Better, Live Better: A Victorious Life Begins in Your Mind," which focuses on how your way of thinking can affect the outcome of your life. He recently talked to the Chronicle about the TV special and his new book.

MORE INFORMATION

"America's Night of Hope"
When: 9 p.m. Sept. 11
Where: Hallmark Channel

Q: Can you tell me more about America's Night of Hope? What will it focus on?

A: There's so much negativity in the world. There's a lot of things pushing people down. Our message is about lifting people up, about inspiration, about hope. It just feels like now more than ever is a good time to spread the hope. It's two and half hours. There's a lot of music. Victoria shares about relationships. My mom shares about how she overcame cancer. My kids are involved in the music side. It's inspirational. It's real uplifting. It's our core message that God's good, that's He's for you, and that you can overcome. That you can reach your dreams.

Q: It's airing on Sept. 11, an infamous date for Americans. Will the special have any ties to the 15th anniversary of 9/11?

A: It was moved around because of their scheduling but we all agreed that it was a great time. It just felt right because it is uplifting and inspirational. It was originally not meant for that day.

Q: Do you think our world is lacking hope?

A: I think in general, there's negativity and you know life happens. We talk about how the difficulties can push you into your destiny. It just feels like it's a very uplifting inspirational hour for people.

Q: How do you think television helps your ministry?

A: I think it's been really influential in the growth of the ministry. Just being able to have that avenue to spread the message to people that wouldn't be familiar with us otherwise. It's a great day to go into people's homes like that through the Internet and other ways as well. My dad was on television for many years before he died. We've been on (television) this last 17 years. It's a great way to get the message out.

Q: Do you ever find ways that it hinders your ministry?

A: No, I find it helpful. At the same time, you're making a difference, you're out in the public, (negativity) is going to happen. We're able to touch a lot of people and the stadiums are filled when we go places. It's a great way to make an impact. I don't see anything negative about it. It's been all helpful to us.

Q: You're a busy man, what else do you have in the works?

A: I have a new book coming out in October. That's a big thing I'll be working on. This (special) will probably lead to other specials with Hallmark. We want to do a Christmas special and an Easter special every year as well. This is kind of what this is leading us to. Just a new avenue and maybe not just stay in our Sunday morning broadcast time. Being in a commercial network like this is a little different kind of exposure, so we're excited about it.

Q: Can you tell me more about your book?

A: It's talking about deleting the negative thoughts and the negative labels that hold us back so often. It's part of my core message that your life is going to follow your thoughts. You can't think negative thoughts and live a positive life. It's just good inspiration about getting your mind going in the right direction.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Adama » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:59 pm

Winston wrote:Adama,
From Osteen's church's website, it looks like they and you believe in the same things. Take a look.

https://www.lakewoodchurch.com/Pages/new-here/What-We-Believe.aspx

We Believe
The Bible
We believe the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.


  • His wife is employed as "co-pastor". From his site: "A life-long Houstonian, Victoria began her career in her family’s business. Now as a supportive wife, mother of two children and a co-pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, TX."
  • A woman can teach her children at home and win souls to Christ. A woman can't be a pastor of a church at all. This is open disregard for the law for a pastor. This is a fundamental error.
  • In interviews, Osteen has said there are MANY paths to Jesus. That means he doesn't believe the Bible. The Bible says there is only one path to Jesus.
  • And Osteen believes in salvation by repentance, which is a work. He hasn't listed that on his site, but if you listen to him give the sinner's prayer for salvation, he openly says repentance is necessary, which negates faith in God's sight. No flesh shall be justified by the law.
Look for women who automatically want to please you because it pleases them. Any woman who seeks to please her man is a treasure. Even better if you don't have to ask but rather suggest.
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