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Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in America!

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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Adama » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:20 am

Winston wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen

Osteen says that he chooses to focus more on the goodness of God and on living an obedient life rather than on sin.[22] He says that he tries to teach Biblical principles in a simple way, emphasizing the power of love and a positive attitude.[23] When asked why he does not focus more on sin, the devil and hell in detail, Osteen stated in an interview with CBN News:

"When I grew up, the devil was a reason why I had a headache or the devil was the reason I got mad today. We always blamed the devil. I think today when I say the enemy, I like to make it broader. Sometimes the enemy can be our own thoughts. We've trained ourselves the wrong way. Or the enemy can be our own lack of discipline. Some people preach about hell like you're already going there, and to me the Gospel means 'Good News.' I'd rather say God is a God of mercy. So I think the people already know what they're doing wrong, and I certainly believe in hell. But to me, when I see thousands of people before me, it just doesn't come out of me to say, 'You guys are terrible, and you're going to hell.' I'd rather say that God is a God of mercy. You've got to live an obedient life, but for every mistake you’ve made, there's mercy there, and I believe we can do better."[11]



Winston, how is it a man can live an obedient life if he doesn't know what sin is? He needs to preach about sin so that his followers can live an obedient life. His assumption is that everyone knows the laws of God, and I assure you, unless they've read it or been taught it, they do not know it. Therefore he is already deficient in his work as pastor, because he isn't teaching his flock not to sin. He's just puffing them up with sweet sounding words.

Also, this is basically a non-answer. It is distraction. A person shouldn't be accusing the devil of causing him a headache. The Bible says that even angels don't make railing accusations against the devil. So it is foolishness to blame Satan for a headache.

But what does that have to do about teaching the law? Nothing. It is a non-answer.

Prosperity gospel criticism

Osteen's sermons and writings are sometimes criticized for promoting prosperity theology, or the prosperity gospel, a belief that material gain is a reward for pious Christians.

When asked if he is a prosperity teacher, Osteen responded that if prosperity means God wants people to be blessed and healthy and have good relationships, then he considers himself a prosperity teacher, but if it is about money, he does not. He has specifically stated that he never preaches about money because of the reputation of televangelists.[11]

"I get grouped into the prosperity gospel and I never think it's fair, but it's just what it is. I think prosperity, and I've said it 1,000 times, it's being healthy, it's having great children, it's having peace of mind. Money is part of it; and yes, I believe God wants us to excel ... to be blessed so we can be a bigger blessing to others. I feel very rewarded. I wrote a book and sold millions of copies; and Victoria and I were able to help more people than we ever dreamed of. But when I hear the term prosperity gospel, I think people are sometimes saying, 'well, he's just asking for money'."[45]



Basically he says he isn't teaching that God is going to make you rich, but then he later goes on to say, but God wants His children to prosper and that money is a part of prospering. This man is almost as double-minded as Winston. He says he isn't teaching the prosperity gospel, and in the next sentence he openly admits it. He is also saying that God rewarded him with money through the sale of his books, like he is living proof of God's prosperity.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Adama » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:31 am

Winston, I know you think financial compensation is only fair and the way things should work. However, haven't you considered that the repayment God has for compensation is other worldly? Shouldn't that compensation come in heaven and last for an eternity in God's presence? Rather than on this temporary pit stop before eternity?

God is rich, but you think too much about money, which is only a means to an end. Money is useful for supplying for your needs. It is a means of exchange.

Also, as Krad has stated, I will re-state for you. There are Christian pastors who give out things for free. They accept donations, but they do not charge. Jesus Himself barred the money changers at the temple from making His Father's house a house of merchandise. DO you remember that? God was very angry with those Jews. Also, inside the temple, Jesus forbade the conduct of business of any kind. He also forbid those coming in to carry their vessel, which I assume is what they used to carry their goods and money.

You see, God says to buy the truth and to sell it not. Buy the truth, but you can't sell it. You're supposed to give of the truth selflessly.

And if there is financial compensation, let it be because the Lord gave it to you, not because you sold the truth. The truth should be given freely. Just as Pastors do not charge. They don't charge for books. They hope donations cover the books which they give away for free.

Either the man should be in business or he should be a pastor. You can't sell Christianity. It is just wrong. There should never be anything sold at a church either.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Voyager1 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:42 am

Google Victoria Osteen air rage. You shall know them by their fruits.

Why is Winston so deceived?
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Voyager1 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:58 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen
"Osteen attended Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he studied radio and television communications, but did not graduate and did not receive a degree from a divinity school"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Osteen
"Osteen attended (though did not graduate from) the University of Houston where she studied psychology while working in her mother’s jewelry business"

Why would anyone listen to these drop outs? I certainly wouldn't pay them any speaking fee. They have nothing to offer.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Kradmelder » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:20 am

Voyager1 wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen
"Osteen attended Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he studied radio and television communications, but did not graduate and did not receive a degree from a divinity school"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Osteen
"Osteen attended (though did not graduate from) the University of Houston where she studied psychology while working in her mother’s jewelry business"

Why would anyone listen to these drop outs? I certainly wouldn't pay them any speaking fee. They have nothing to offer.


Because they are smooth talking confidence salesmen, put up an entertaining show with lights, glamour and smoke, and tell you what you want to hear to smooth the itch in your ears. Like snake oil salesmen that sell you coloured water to cure ailments.

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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Voyager1 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:33 am

Image
Image

Notice when they smile they show their gums? God I hate that.

As someone else said. Evil. Pure evil.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Rock » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:49 am

Voyager1 wrote:Image
Image

Notice when they smile they show their gums? God I hate that.

As someone else said. Evil. Pure evil.


Just look at their faces while you listen to this song...eerie!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CJZcVi5BA4
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Winston » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:01 am

Adama wrote:
Winston wrote:Adama,
From Osteen's church's website, it looks like they and you believe in the same things. Take a look.

https://www.lakewoodchurch.com/Pages/new-here/What-We-Believe.aspx

We Believe
The Bible
We believe the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.


  • His wife is employed as "co-pastor". From his site: "A life-long Houstonian, Victoria began her career in her family’s business. Now as a supportive wife, mother of two children and a co-pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, TX."
  • A woman can teach her children at home and win souls to Christ. A woman can't be a pastor of a church at all. This is open disregard for the law for a pastor. This is a fundamental error.
  • In interviews, Osteen has said there are MANY paths to Jesus. That means he doesn't believe the Bible. The Bible says there is only one path to Jesus.
  • And Osteen believes in salvation by repentance, which is a work. He hasn't listed that on his site, but if you listen to him give the sinner's prayer for salvation, he openly says repentance is necessary, which negates faith in God's sight. No flesh shall be justified by the law.


I already told you, everyone listens to Bible verses they like and ignore those they don't like or dismiss them as allegorical and situational. For instance, are you going to take these verse literally?

Matthew 5: 29-30

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 19: 21-22

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.


No one is going to cut off their body parts just because they tempt them to sin. And no one is going to sell all their possessions and become a bum just to conform to those verses. Come on man.

Of course you have to repent. That's standard evangelical doctrine. You are supposed to repent of your sins first, then accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and ask him to forgive your sins. You are arguing semantics. Both repentance and asking Jesus into your heart are part of the sinner's prayer that is supposed to get you saved. Of course, faith is a part of it all too. It's all very simple and made simple for the masses.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Winston » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:18 am

Adama wrote:Basically he says he isn't teaching that God is going to make you rich, but then he later goes on to say, but God wants His children to prosper and that money is a part of prospering. This man is almost as double-minded as Winston. He says he isn't teaching the prosperity gospel, and in the next sentence he openly admits it. He is also saying that God rewarded him with money through the sale of his books, like he is living proof of God's prosperity.


Well of course he's going to say that. What do you expect him to say? He's a capitalist. He takes advantage of the system and got wealthy when he saw an opportunity to. So what? Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did the same. Why don't you condemn them too?

If you were him, would you rather have your family and kids be rich or poor? Of course money will bring prosperity. King Solomon wasn't poor, neither was King David. As long as they were righteous, God let them be prosperous. The Bible is 66 books that say many things. Depends on which part you want to focus on. It does not teach one set of rules.

I already told you, I don't believe there is any such thing as a "true Christian" for reasons I already explained earlier.

Adama wrote:Winston, I know you think financial compensation is only fair and the way things should work. However, haven't you considered that the repayment God has for compensation is other worldly? Shouldn't that compensation come in heaven and last for an eternity in God's presence? Rather than on this temporary pit stop before eternity?


I already answered that. I would not forget this life and only focus on the next. We can't know for sure what is in the afterlife. The Greeks said that the afterlife is endless wandering in Hades with no purpose. How do you know they weren't right? If you are wrong and there is no paradise for Christians, then YOU have scammed them. Better to live for the present moment in this life. So I disagree with you on that. Why do you make me repeat everything?

God is rich, but you think too much about money, which is only a means to an end. Money is useful for supplying for your needs. It is a means of exchange.

Also, as Krad has stated, I will re-state for you. There are Christian pastors who give out things for free. They accept donations, but they do not charge. Jesus Himself barred the money changers at the temple from making His Father's house a house of merchandise. DO you remember that? God was very angry with those Jews. Also, inside the temple, Jesus forbade the conduct of business of any kind. He also forbid those coming in to carry their vessel, which I assume is what they used to carry their goods and money.

You see, God says to buy the truth and to sell it not. Buy the truth, but you can't sell it. You're supposed to give of the truth selflessly.

And if there is financial compensation, let it be because the Lord gave it to you, not because you sold the truth. The truth should be given freely. Just as Pastors do not charge. They don't charge for books. They hope donations cover the books which they give away for free.

Either the man should be in business or he should be a pastor. You can't sell Christianity. It is just wrong. There should never be anything sold at a church either.


The Bible says many different things. But you can attend Olsteen's church services for free too. Just show up at Lakewood Church in Houston, TX. I posted the website already. You are grasping at straws here.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Winston » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:22 am

Voyager1 wrote:Google Victoria Osteen air rage. You shall know them by their fruits.

Why is Winston so deceived?


No one is perfect. Maybe she was having a bad day. Either way, I'm sure she apologized for it. We've all had our temper tantrums. We are allowed to make mistakes. It's part of being human. Even God expects you to make mistakes. You aren't supposed to be perfect. You can ask forgiveness for your mistakes. If you forgive others, then God will forgive you too. You know the teaching.

Deceived by what? I never said these people are perfect. They are just great talkers and business people. I never said they were saints. But you haven't proven that they are frauds who deliberately lie about everything.

Voyager1 wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen
"Osteen attended Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he studied radio and television communications, but did not graduate and did not receive a degree from a divinity school"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Osteen
"Osteen attended (though did not graduate from) the University of Houston where she studied psychology while working in her mother’s jewelry business"

Why would anyone listen to these drop outs? I certainly wouldn't pay them any speaking fee. They have nothing to offer.


So what? Graduating from college doesn't mean much. Especially when college is just a money making scam too, as we discussed in other threads here. Lots of successful people never went to college too. Bill Gates didn't either.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Adama » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:25 am

Winston, the reason why you believe repentance is necessary is because your mind and heart are blocked from belief due to your previous disobedience to believe the gospel by faith alone. It is clear that salvation is by faith alone. When you deny this despite being shown 10 or 100 verses proving it, it only shows you're incapable of believing the truth. That means you're intentionally blocked from believing.

More proof of this is evident when you go on to reference the Greek afterlife. If you were a believer, there would be no question of whether heaven and hell are real. You'd know despite not having ever been to either one of them. Your faith is deficient which is why you don't believe it.

This is how we know you are not saved. You don't even believe in fundamentals and instead refer to Greek fables, and you admit you can't believe when you add repentance to salvation. Too bad for you, Winston, you'll never understand the truth. I don't know why you bother. Or maybe that's why you search so intensely, because it is being withheld from you. Maybe similar to the way everything is Murphy's Law.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/inspiring preacher in Americ

Postby Adama » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:36 am

Winston wrote:I already told you, everyone listens to Bible verses they like and ignore those they don't like or dismiss them as allegorical and situational. For instance, are you going to take these verse literally?

Matthew 5: 29-30

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 19: 21-22

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.


No one is going to cut off their body parts just because they tempt them to sin. And no one is going to sell all their possessions and become a bum just to conform to those verses. Come on man.

Of course you have to repent. That's standard evangelical doctrine. You are supposed to repent of your sins first, then accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and ask him to forgive your sins. You are arguing semantics. Both repentance and asking Jesus into your heart are part of the sinner's prayer that is supposed to get you saved. Of course, faith is a part of it all too. It's all very simple and made simple for the masses.


Repentance of sins is work, and salvation is not by works but by faith. Jesus has done all the work for us already, by dying on the cross, He took our sins onto Himself, and in exchange for that, He imputes unto us His righteousness simply for believing in Him, and because He loves us and wants us in heaven, He promised to never cast us out for any reason, and that we are sealed until the day of Redemption. Where does repentance figure in there? The only thing you need to repent of to be saved is your unbelief or your belief in nonsense to turn and believe the gospel of Christ (by faith alone). Repent simply means to change your mind, as we know because God has repented of the punishment He initially planned to inflict on many in the Bible. Repentance of sins for salvation is never mentioned in the Bible. It is repent to believe the gospel. Repent of your unbelief. Repentance of sins comes after salvation and has no affect whatsoever on whether or not we go to heaven. Just you'll destroy this life and the possible rewards in heaven for sinning. You can't see that because you can't believe.

As for your comparisons above, they just prove lack of spiritual discernment to even consider that. Initially I was going to attempt to explain it to you, but you lack the foundation of faith necessary to accept it. It would be a waste of time.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Winston » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:38 am

Kradmelder wrote:
Voyager1 wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen
"Osteen attended Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he studied radio and television communications, but did not graduate and did not receive a degree from a divinity school"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Osteen
"Osteen attended (though did not graduate from) the University of Houston where she studied psychology while working in her mother’s jewelry business"

Why would anyone listen to these drop outs? I certainly wouldn't pay them any speaking fee. They have nothing to offer.


Because they are smooth talking confidence salesmen, put up an entertaining show with lights, glamour and smoke, and tell you what you want to hear to smooth the itch in your ears. Like snake oil salesmen that sell you coloured water to cure ailments.

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Maybe, but they do say some true things and real things. Even a con man can't speak 100 percent lies. They have to mix truth and falsities together. They mention that God protects his children and guides them, as long as they trust him and obey him. That does work you know. A lot of Christians have experienced God's protection and guidance in their lives, sometimes in amazing ways that defy any conventional explanation, such as confirmation bias or coincidence. So that part is true, for at least some people.

That doesn't mean everyone of the thousands of people in his audience will receive God's protection and blessing, of course. There is no 100 percent thing that applies to everyone. But some Christians do experience miracles, blessings, protection and guidance from God in many ways. There are countless stories of it. I've experienced some of it too in my life. So I know it's real. Therefore, when Osteen talks about this, he is speaking some truth here.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Winston » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:44 am

Voyager1 wrote:Image
Image

Notice when they smile they show their gums? God I hate that.

As someone else said. Evil. Pure evil.


So just because they show their gums when they smile, means they are pure evil? What kind of bizarre small minded logic is that? lol. You sound more small minded than those who started the Salem Witch Trials in 1699. Weird. I certainly wouldn't you want you as the judge in any court. No logic or objectivity or rationality at all.

Doesn't their smile look like a million bucks? Doesn't it shine of success and prosperity? lol

You certainly can't become popular by being too negative and condescending like this guy:

http://www.anamericaninbangkok.com
https://www.youtube.com/user/anamericaninbangkok

If you watch his videos, you will see that he does not uplift anyone or make them feel good. Instead, he just talks about how stupid and idiotic everyone is, including those who ask him for advice. That's not the way to win fans and become popular.
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Re: Joel Osteen - Most powerful/successful preacher in Ameri

Postby Adama » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:51 am

Funny you should mention juries, Winston. I am a member of another forum where we all discuss things that we have all seen broadcast on TV. It is interesting to see how everyone has their own take of things which even seems to differ from reality. Ten people can literally come to ten different conclusions. Then I had the same thought as you, that I wouldn't want any of those wankers on a jury. That lead me to conclude that, if most people are just idiots similar to this (and it seems likely), that if a righteous man gets vindicated, it has to be because God worked in the hearts of the jurors. Many people who see things right in front of their eyes come to funky conclusions that aren't even possible. So for me, it must be that God is the one who is really working for some people in juries when they get it right. People just couldn't get it right otherwise, in my humble opinion.
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