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Discuss religion and spirituality topics.
15 posts • Page 1 of 1
Many have wondered, and still wonder, what happened to the souls of those who chose to jump to their deaths from the World Trade Center towers on September 11, 2001.
The answer is simple: they who chose to jump went to Hell.
Suicide is murder of the self, and therefore violates the 5th Commandment which forbids murder. No one can commit suicide, and enter Heaven.
No doubt many will argue: "but they never intended to commit suicide. They were driven to do so, due to the fires inside."
Yes, they were driven to do so. But they never would have been placed in such a position, unless God allowed it.
God sees the hearts of men everywhere. He knows whether one is of good will, or not. And if He saw such a one who loved the truth (i.e. Catholic teaching), He would keep him alive, so that the one could receive the truth, and be baptized by water, which is necessary for salvation.
God is perfect, and so is His justice.
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To turn away from the edge and walk back into the flames is just another death choice.
It's luciferean ass-holes like you that give Christianity a bad name.
So, did God send those terrorists into the bldg, too?
Oh, and how come those Law of Attraction enthusiasts were silent on 9/11?
Did those 3000 people attract the planes by sending out negative thoughts? And 'expecting' it to happen?
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
What is the route to heaven according to Catholic doctrine? Each time you ask a Catholic you'll get a different answer, or they'll put you to a website with a long list of nebulous conjecture. There is only one way to heaven, and that is through faith alone. The scripture is quite clear: upon believing; our sins are covered past, present and future: But to him that worketh not but believeth on Him that justifyeth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Your Catholic doctrine is going to split hell wide open and enlarge it. If God says salvation is by faith alone and not of works and that we are covered until the Day of Redemption, then the act of suicide doesn't violate that, even though it is a murder. Our sins are covered.
If God is looking out for you, I doubt you'd even be inside that skyscraper, or you probably would have made it out. God promises that we will not have to fear evil.
Outwest is quite correct about your Satanic doctrine. Like every other religion, Catholicism believes in salvation by works, that is self righteous. No flesh will be justified by the law. None. The Satanists will tell you that each person is their own redeemer. That is the same thing as trusting in your own works to get you to heaven. The same as every other false religion emphasizes works over trusting our sinless God who died for our sins.
Baptism is also a work and not part of salvation. It is a commandment and a symbol but it is not necessary for salvation. That's why Catholics think they can save babies by baptism. No, first you must believe to be saved. Then to follow the law you get baptized as commanded.
Not much of a poster (or even a member) these days, but I had to post. What we have here is a perfect example of why Abrahamic religions are a no-go zone for me. When I listen to a Rush Limbaugh cast or watch a Sean Hannity clip, I think, "how can they top that one?". Well, here is the answer to that question. So, am I to understand that god allowed these things to happen? Wait a second. If they had stayed in the crumbling, burning buildings would that not be suicide? I'm confused. Unless you know of a way to avoid being burned by flames.
So this means god knew he was going to push them into a no-win scenario, but still punish them for doing something he knew they would do?
Times like this I'm glad I'm rarely around anymore.
Self-improvement addict. Always striving for perfection.
More than likely they were just unsaved people who are without God's protection. You want protection from evil, you must become a child of God through faith in Jesus. Otherwise you're not covered.
As for the "religions of Abraham", keep in mind that Islam is merely a terrible copy of Christianity and true Judaism, but with commands to kill unbelievers. Judaism is the tradition of the rabbis and has nothing to do with God. The only true religion is that by faith in Christ Jesus for salvation; complete trust in the Lord, who died for our sins. Every other religion emphasizes salvation by works or faith + works which is works. The only one that is by faith alone is Christianity. Specifically that Christ died for our sins to pay for them, because there is a penalty for sin. You know the other ones are false because Allah didn't die for our sins, neither did he live a sinless life. And Mohammed was a pedophile, rapist, mass murderer, and even he suspected that he was demon possessed until a woman convinced him otherwise.
God did not force them into that position. He merely allowed it to happen.
The route to Heaven is to believe in Catholic dogma, i.e. outside the Catholic Church, no one can be saved. Not even those who call themselves "Catholics" but who hold heretical views (e.g., non-Catholics can go to Heaven).
One must also be baptized by water. So-called "baptism of desire" is heresy.
If a man were ready and willing to embrace the traditional Catholic faith and to receive water baptism, then allowing him to die before he could do so is an impossibility. God would keep that person alive, and allow him to do what was required to become a Catholic.
That is all.
To me that answer would be in FREE WILL. It is a rule of the game. None of the powers are allowed to coerce in order to gain souls. Bad buys are allowed to tempt. Nothing more. Once they cross the line into manipulation and coercion, BANG, God and his hosts or the Devil and his legions are supposed to step in. They lay the smack down on the law breakers and restore order. That is why there is a blood war between the Devils and Demons. Devils play by the rules to get souls while Demons break the rules in an effort to steal the very souls that the Devils would undoubtedly have obtained. God and the Devil don't like being robbed.
quote from http://www.shari-alexander.com/influenc ... -coercion/
: the power to change or affect someone or something : the power to cause changes without directly forcing them to happen: a person or thing that affects someone or something in an important way
I think the important point here is, "without directly forcing them to happen." Other definitions of influence refer to influence as being undetectable by the other person, and/or that influence reveals little to no effort by the influential person. I, personally, believe that influence and persuasion are fairly interchangeable.
: the act of causing people to do or believe something : the act or activity of persuading people
Now, let's talk about the nasty cousins of influence: manipulation and coercion. Usually, when people have a negative reaction to the word influence, they are actually conjuring images and ideas about these words:
: exerting shrewd or devious influence especially for one's own advantage; "his manipulation of his friends was scandalous"
: to make (someone) do something by using force or threats : to get (something) by using force or threats
God didn't stop all the Christians from being thrown to the lions and to be persecuted rather than burn incense to the emperor. That doesn't mean martyrs were sinners for being martyrs.
Your conclusions show a rather foolish judgment. For one thing, we don't know if those people were jumping. They could have been holding on to I-beams until their strength gave out or the floor could have given way beneath them.
Another thing to consider is that in some cases it may not have been wilfull suicide. If they knew the fire would kill them, jumping was taking a risk and there was at least a chance they could live, maybe from latching on to a passing helicopter. If the fires meant sure quick death, jumping could prolong their lives for several more seconds, so in that situation, they wouldn' the choosing suicide, they'd be choosing to live longer.
Being a Christian (i.e. a Catholic and ONLY a Catholic) doesn't mean that God will shield you from all harm.
You seem not to know the difference between "committing suicide" and "sacrificing one's life for God."
I am referring specifically to those who did jump (which is not to say that those who didn't were saved).
Ladislav what happened on 9/11 ?, what we are told is that correct ?
Time to Hide!
Here's a list of anti-Bliblical heresies committed by the Catholic church. (That is teachings the Catholic church imposes which run directly against the Bible, which is God's Word and the ultimate authority on earth.)
http://jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Reli ... a_list.htm