Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

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TruthSeeker
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

Post by TruthSeeker »

Joel Osteen says "there are many paths to Jesus"



But this does not make sense. The Hindus don't point you to Jesus. The Muslims don't point you to Jesus. The Buddhists don't point you to Jesus. Other religions don't point you to Jesus so what is this guy talking about?

Is he talking about Christian denominations?
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Winston
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

Post by Winston »

MrMan wrote:
January 25th, 2018, 7:42 am
Winston wrote:
January 24th, 2018, 9:02 pm
Update: I've added a 6th logical reason now to the OP. Check it out in the first post.

@Adama and @MrMan, why can't you address my points? You have to admit that they are logical and make sense. That's why you can't refute them and are speechless. The more you think about my points, the more you realize they make sense and are sound and reasonable. God bestowed you with reason and critical thinking, so why are you afraid to use it? If God didn't want you think or reason, he wouldn't have given you such abilities. Think about it. lol
My answer to Paine is this, God is powerful and able to communicate through His Word as well, which requires us to think and reason to understand. God can also give men insight and understanding, in spite of some being confused or using malleable words as an excuse for rejecting the truth.

You are the one arguing against God being able to communication through reason and intelligence (since words are malleable and that whole other line of reasoning.) Now you are using the idea that God gave us reason and critical thinking. You can't have it both ways.

I would also say Paine's argument is poor. Malleability of language is not proof that the all-wise God cannot communicate through word. Words being malleable doesn't prove that is not possible.
Well even if God did try to give us his word in a book like the Bible, the problem is, it was still written by HUMANS, and since humans are imperfect and have their biases, then it logically follows that the Bible does too. Right? It's very simple logic. Anyone can see that the Bible authors had different writing styles too. If it was all God's word, every word of it, then why would it have different styles?

European Christians of the last 2000 years were reasonable and realistic and did not demand that every word in the Bible be infallible. They knew very well that it was imperfect and written by humans, and that the core message was what mattered. The doctrine of Biblical infallibility is a modern American invention that was created in the 1800's. It's not part of traditional Christianity as American Evangelicals assume.

I know your assumption is that if it's God's word, then God will protect it. But that's an ad hoc argument and pure speculation and is circular reasoning too. It assumes that God wrote every word of the Bible. It's not logical. But Paine's argument is logical and consistent and would be agreed with by even Spock or Data from Star Trek. It follows simple linear logic.
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Winston
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

Post by Winston »

TruthSeeker wrote:
January 25th, 2018, 10:27 am
Joel Osteen says "there are many paths to Jesus"



But this does not make sense. The Hindus don't point you to Jesus. The Muslims don't point you to Jesus. The Buddhists don't point you to Jesus. Other religions don't point you to Jesus so what is this guy talking about?

Is he talking about Christian denominations?
I think he meant that there are many paths to God. That is a popular view among people who believe in God but not organized religion. It is a New Age view too. Osteen's preaching contains a lot of New Age stuff too, like attracting wealth and abundance, and that God is only a God of love, not punishment, etc. It's a politically correct view too, to say that all religions are equal and can get you to God. But I think it makes some sense for the 6 reasons I gave in the OP.
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

Post by Adama »

Joel Osteen apparently doesn't realize that salvation is by faith alone.

I do believe though, if a person prays to God to reveal to him the proper way, that God may point that man to Christ. Then that person must believe in Christ. God may send that person a soul winner after that person prays to God to show him the proper way of salvation.

And notice the first question that Oprah asks is about homosexuals. They want to teach that it is okay to be homosexual. Well it is about as okay as being a murderer.
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

Post by TruthSeeker »

Winston wrote:
January 25th, 2018, 8:23 pm
I think he meant that there are many paths to God. That is a popular view among people who believe in God but not organized religion. It is a New Age view too. Osteen's preaching contains a lot of New Age stuff too, like attracting wealth and abundance, and that God is only a God of love, not punishment, etc. It's a politically correct view too, to say that all religions are equal and can get you to God. But I think it makes some sense for the 6 reasons I gave in the OP.
No, that's not what he's saying. He's parroting the Biblical sentiment that Jesus is the only way to the Father (John 14:6) but that there are many ways to Jesus. So from one perspective he's right but he's trying to water it down so that his words don't sound so harsh and dogmatic. He does this to gain a wider audience.
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

Post by MrMan »

Winston, God is able to communicate in spite of human weakness.
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

Post by Adama »

So many people make such a big deal out of this homosexual issue. They want us to believe that homosexuals are just like heterosexuals. Not so. Just like if a person is a serial murderer, it is probably the case that, such people are loosed and unwanted.

There is a limit as to how far God will let a person go before He casts them away. Those who will be saved can only go so far. So if a person can exceed a certain limit (breaking the yoke of God), especially if they are doing it for pleasure, then that person may turn themselves into a living dead person: a reprobate - the unwanted and rejected.

If a person willingly gets down in the mud and loves playing in the mud, and loves living like a filthy animal (spiritually), then it is likely that God will release them so that they can have their desires. The bridle will be removed so they can live like an animal, rather than a godly person. Just like if a person takes up murdering other people for their personal delight and pleasure (as opposed to war or self defense), that person may become a cast away and a reprobate, losing their inheritance of eternal life.

The way of life is narrow, and people forget that God hates sin. Those who've had pleasure in unrighteousness are in trouble and may never live again. Salvation may never be shown to filthy animals.
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

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My reply to someone on YouTube about why one can believe in Jesus and other religions at the same time without conflict.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0gs90xBnaA

White stone
2 months ago
Very interesting and thought provoking lecture.
As a self proclaimed Christian who obviously studied the other great traditions at length and in depth I wonder how Houston reconciled their teachings with Jesus own words

“ I am The way The truth The life.” and “No man comes to the Father except through me.”

Anybody know his views on this or a video where he might speak about it?

My reply:

Very simple. Jesus didn't say that. Those verses are from the book of John which was written in 90 AD. You Christians keep forgetting that MEN wrote the Bible, not God himself. This is obvious but your mind is HIJACKED by fundamentalism which teaches that the Bible itself is akin to God and is infallible. Not so. MEN wrote the Bible, thus it contains opinions, agendas, biases, mistakes and yes even lies too. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the truth. Even if Jesus did say that, it doesn't make it true. He was still a man and can be wrong or misquoted or taken out of context. John's Gospel was a later book designed to canonize the atonement theology. Read the earlier gospels like Mark and other earlier ones that have been recently unearthed to get Jesus' original message. Regardless, Jesus wasn't perfect ok? No man is perfect. Not even Jesus. Men like Jesus only become deified after their death. No one accepts that a man is God, so he has to be killed and kicked up into heaven in order to be deified. Look up the lectures of Dr. Bart Ehrman on this. The problem is that Christian fundamentalism, an invention of the 19th century (so no it is not 2000 years old as you wrongly assume and have been told), has hijacked your mind so you can't see this clearly. Huston Smith, Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung would have all agreed with this. If you study their works deeply you will realize this. If Huston were alive today, he'd have told you the same thing no doubt.

What you fail to realize is that one can love God and Jesus WITHOUT being a fundamentalist who believes the Bible to be infallible or that everyone who is not saved is going to hell, etc. Those are fear doctrines invented by the Church, not by God. But you cannot see this, because again, your mind is HIJACKED by fundamentalism. Once you become free of it, all this will become apparent, as it has for all great thinkers and geniuses throughout history. Keep in mind that all the great minds in history such as Tesla, Einstein, Ben Franklin, Leonardo DaVinci, Thomas Edison, etc were neither Christian fundamentalists nor were they Atheists. They all believed in a higher power beyond man's comprehension yes, but they all saw organized religion as man's interpretation and invention. That should tell you something. For instance, read Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason". He acknowledged the existence of a Creator, but made the point that religion was created by MAN, not the Creator himself which is beyond words.

Also look up the Swedenborg and Life channel on YouTube. You will learn that the great genius Emanuel Swedenborg explained in the 1700s why Jesus was not the only way to God and why the unsaved do not automatically go to hell and why the Bible is not literal or infallible, etc.

Also see my post on 6 logical reasons why Jesus is not the only way to God: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31994

Keep in mind too that when Emperor Constantine set up the Nicean Council in 325 AD to establish an official Christian canon, it was NOT a truth seeking venture. It was a PRACTICAL endeavor to create a universal Christiandom in order to UNIFY the Roman Empire. Constantine had POLITICS in mind, NOT truth. He was no virtuous man of course and did many bad things, even to his own family. What this means is that the official version of Christianity that was canonized that you ascribe to, was created for POLITICAL reasons of control, not because it's true. Before the Nicean Council, there were many different forms of Christianity, including Gnostic sects, right from the time of Jesus. So your version of Evangelical Christianity is not the only one and was created for political purposes of unifying the empire rather than keeping it divided, which emperors and elites naturally want. You gotta understand that. So the creators of your canonized version of Christianity were not motivated by truth.

Finally, keep in mind that the Bible itself does not claim to be infallible. American Evangelicals invented the doctrine of Biblical inerrancy in the 1800's to combat the teaching of Evolution in schools and universities. Look up your history. So Bible inerrancy is a modern American INVENTION, not a timeless truth handed down by Jesus and his disciples. That means that your Bible and religion are NOT absolute or literal truth. In fact, there are several Bible verses where the author specifically says that he is writing HIS opinion, not God's, which PROVES without a doubt that every word of the Bible is NOT directly from God as fundamentalists and evangelicals claim. See examples below by the Apostle Paul:

1 Corinthians 7:12 - "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away."

1 Corinthians 7:25 - "Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful."

2 Corinthians 11:17 - "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting."

As you can see, Paul is writing his own opinion and even says so. It is not God himself writing it. Therefore, canonizing the epistles of Paul was a big mistake by the Church. His letters are his opinion and advice only, not God's and certainly not infallible or absolute. No way. There are simply scores and scores of problems, errors, and false claims in fundamentalist Christianity. I could go on for hours.
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

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@MrMan

Check out this talk show with 2 Wiccan authors. At one point a woman calls into the show and says Jesus is the only way. Raymond Buckland gave her a great and reasonable response.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMpoS_Vczbg

I don't understand something. So Christians think that everyone in the whole world should become Christian even if it doesn't resonate with them? If Christians had their way, all religious books that are non-Christian should be burned? So Buddhists and Hinduists should burn all their religious texts and books and all become Christian? Because Christianity is the only way, even if it doesnt resonate with you? Do u agree with that? Lol. Is that what Christians would want if they were in charge of the world? Is that what you would want? Lol
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

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Check out this short intro to Kemetic Spirituality vs. Christianity. It blows Christianity away and explains why many black people are now embracing Kemetic spirituality after understanding why Christianity never felt right. It makes sense. Check it out:

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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 5 Logical reasons

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starchild5 wrote:
October 2nd, 2016, 8:20 pm
Wow...You are the only guy who gets it....I'm really impressed because you have not been in India but you are an old soul and suffered a lot. This is really really like the TOP LEVEL of understanding god...like even in india may be 100 people understands this concept. For you to get this concept was simply incredible. It takes close to a million life..literally to understand this concept.

Either you are an Alien or simply the Chosen One..The Man of God himself. Only the chosen few in this universe understands this concept I have been told this by a guy who is like incredibly beyond...The closest to God you will ever see. I got this information from that guy...Its not my information..Its not written in books ...It has to come from the Divine himself and he chooses who understands him in all its glory.

I think you are protected for this reason. Even if you walk drunk and show all your money in Angeles City, :D no one will touch you, because there is the reason you are protected. You have a Divine Protection because you are a man of god.
@starchild5 if you are still lurking around, you will love this video by the Real Merkabah called "Saturn, Satan, God, and the Nature of Reality, Part 1". He is one of the most aware YouTubers I've ever seen. In this video he explains very well why God and Satan have to be two sides of the same coin and the same person, the same source playing both sides of the chess board, black and white. This means he supports evil and the bad guys as well as the good guys. Most people can never accept this of course. But it makes sense if you think about it deeply with higher consciousness. The average person is foolish for thinking that evil can be eliminated forever. They don't get it. Probably at the highest levels of Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism and secret societies, they let their adepts and initiates in on this too.



The other parts after Part 1 are good and worth watching too, but Part 1 is the most important one.
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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

Post by Winston »

Another great Hindu video about why Christianity and Islam are not "the only way" with great points and logic.

"Abrahamic religions, unlike Hinduism, often make exclusive Truth claims, stating that unless we subscribe to their faith we will be condemned for eternity. This video explores the strikingly obvious problems when making such absurd claims.

The issues can be summarized as the:
1. The Problem of an Unfair Test
2 The Problem of Virtue and Human Experience
3. The Problem of Insufficient evidence

In analyzing these problems, we will see how Christianity and Islam have theologies which are forced on reality, while Hinduism has a philosophy utterly in tune with the way life actually is.

The footage and images in this video belong to their sole copyright owner and are used for criticism, commentary and education. We in no way claim ownership of the material."



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Re: Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons

Post by Cornfed »

@Winston, as usual your problem is that you are making underlying faulty assumptions. In this case you are assuming that everyone has to make the cut. Consider the case of thinning a kiwifruit orchard. The vines have more fruit on them than they can bear and most of the fruit are defective in some way or just growing in the wrong place. The idea is to have people go through and pluck off the majority of defective fruit and throw them on the ground. Then when the mower goes over them the defective fruit can contribute by supplying mulch for the good fruit. So it is for the NPCs and square pegs in the human population.

On the subject of different religions, not all religions are equal. If the universe is chaotic, unpredictable and dependent on the conflicting capricious whims of different gods, then no long term planning, scientific investigation or societal progress is possible, and no-one would even think of attempting those things. What we need is a single all-powerful God laying down a unified blueprint for the universe, and on that front Christianity is the only game in town.
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