ATTENTION: The Forum will be upgraded today to phpbb 3.2 and may be down for an hour or two. We appreciate your patience. Thanks.



Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.



View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Yohan » October 22nd, 2017, 4:58 pm

Misko_Varesanovic wrote:Here are some examples of Muslim women that don't usually make it to US network television news:

4. The so-called human anime, Kazakhstan volleyball star Sabina Altinbekova

Image



A big difference if a woman is doing sport and has to respect the rules about clothes during a competition.

This is another picture outside of the sport arena

Image
User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2666
Joined: April 3rd, 2014, 6:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Misko_Varesanovic » October 22nd, 2017, 5:08 pm

Yohan wrote:
Misko_Varesanovic wrote:Here are some examples of Muslim women that don't usually make it to US network television news:

2. Carissa Putri (Indonesian actress and model)

Image



Carissa Putri is not a good example, as she is born in Germany, is 50/50 European/Indonesian and this is how she looks like now in Indonesia - she is 33 years old,
married, child (children?)


Image


She was in Indonesia in the previous photograph, which is a few years old.

This is her in 2017, doing a commercial for the Korean/Japanese conglomerate Lotte:

Misko_Varesanovic
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 61
Joined: March 13th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Misko_Varesanovic » October 22nd, 2017, 5:15 pm

Yohan wrote:
Misko_Varesanovic wrote:Here are some examples of Muslim women that don't usually make it to US network television news:

4. The so-called human anime, Kazakhstan volleyball star Sabina Altinbekova

Image



A big difference if a woman is doing sport and has to respect the rules about clothes during a competition.

This is another picture outside of the sport arena

Image


As are these:

Image

Image

Image

Plus, you do realise that the FIVB allow the wearing of headscarves? Here is a photograph of a women's club team from Iran, Sarmayeh Bank:

Image
Misko_Varesanovic
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 61
Joined: March 13th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Yohan » October 23rd, 2017, 5:26 pm

Misko_Varesanovic wrote: you do realise that the FIVB allow the wearing of headscarves? Here is a photograph of a women's club team from Iran,


The question remains open, what will happen, if these women decide to play WITHOUT headscarves? In Iran and abroad?

The FIVB will for sure allow it, why not? But what will the Iranian government say about it - even if there are women in this team who might NOT be Muslim?
User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2666
Joined: April 3rd, 2014, 6:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Yohan » October 23rd, 2017, 5:40 pm

Misko_Varesanovic wrote:This is her in 2017, doing a commercial for the Korean/Japanese conglomerate Lotte:


I do not see any reason why a woman needs a hijab when talking about chocolates produced by a South Korean company...

User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2666
Joined: April 3rd, 2014, 6:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Misko_Varesanovic » October 31st, 2017, 3:47 pm

Yohan wrote:
Misko_Varesanovic wrote: you do realise that the FIVB allow the wearing of headscarves? Here is a photograph of a women's club team from Iran,


The question remains open, what will happen, if these women decide to play WITHOUT headscarves? In Iran and abroad?

The FIVB will for sure allow it, why not? But what will the Iranian government say about it - even if there are women in this team who might NOT be Muslim?


For now, that would be an issue - not because of Islam, but because of the Iranian government. However, whether it is still an issue in even five years' time is another question.

Both Turkey and Azerbaijan are very successful women's volleyball nations, and there isn't a single player on those teams who wears a headscarf.

You can see a recent game from the Turkish domestic league here:



And the championship game from this year's 2017 FIVB Club World Championship, won by Vakifbank Istanbul, who beat Brazil's Rexona:

Misko_Varesanovic
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 61
Joined: March 13th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Misko_Varesanovic » October 31st, 2017, 4:00 pm

Yohan wrote:
Misko_Varesanovic wrote:This is her in 2017, doing a commercial for the Korean/Japanese conglomerate Lotte:


I do not see any reason why a woman needs a hijab when talking about chocolates produced by a South Korean company...



Firstly, Carissa Puteri is not wearing a hijab in that commercial. It's just a loose head-covering of the kind which is common in South and South-East Asia, especially amongst older generations of women. It's a Ramadan promotion, so it makes sense to tap into that kind of nostalgia.

Most Indonesian commercials these days are lifted straight from Japan and South Korea:

Misko_Varesanovic
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 61
Joined: March 13th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Misko_Varesanovic » November 7th, 2017, 9:38 pm

As some of the more internationally-minded of you may already be aware, Turkey is the world's second-largest exporter of scripted television shows after the United States. It has enjoyed an amazing run of expansion since 2004:

'Last year [2015] Turkey earned $250m (£187m) from overseas sales of TV shows, according to the Turkish Exporters Assembly (TEA) trade organisation. This compares with only $10,000 (£7,475) back in 2004.

'Turkish TV dramas are now watched by more than 400 million people in more than 140 countries.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37284938

Turkish female media stars are some of the most beautiful of their kind in the world, and are icons not just in their home country, but the Middle East, the Balkans, Central Asia and certain other Asian and Latin American countries.

Below is a picture of a billboard advertisement for a Turkish soap opera in Chile:

Image
Misko_Varesanovic
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 61
Joined: March 13th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Misko_Varesanovic » November 7th, 2017, 11:49 pm

A small selection of contemporary Turkish actresses:

1. Saadet Isıl Aksoy

Image

2. Nur Aysan

Image

3. Ezgi Asaroglu

Image

4. Gulcan Aslan

Image

5. Tuba Buyukustan

Image
Misko_Varesanovic
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 61
Joined: March 13th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Misko_Varesanovic » November 8th, 2017, 12:43 am

To give you an idea of the depth of the talent, here are three Turkish television presenters who front or feature in regular TV shows (i.e. sitting in a studio with no big production budget):

1. Cansu Canan, an historian and published author

Image

2. Deniz Satar, a sports magazine show hostess on TRT (the Turkish state broadcaster)

Image

3. Serenay Aktas, a footballer and model who is an entertainment show favourite

Image
Misko_Varesanovic
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 61
Joined: March 13th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Yohan » November 10th, 2017, 7:39 am

Misko_Varesanovic wrote:A small selection of contemporary Turkish actresses:
1. Saadet Isıl Aksoy
2. Nur Aysan
3. Ezgi Asaroglu
4. Gulcan Aslan
5. Tuba Buyukustan

You forget to mention that one of these persons is not a Muslim using an additional Christian name, another one is living in USA and a third one is half German/Turkish, born in Germany.

I did not check out the private life of all the others in details and what they did in 2006, but it is a big difference if we talk about Islam somewhere in an ordinary city or rural area in the Asian part of Turkey or if we talk about the daily life of an actress of Turkish ethnicity living in the USA, California, Los Angeles and as a contract with L'Oreal Paris.

Maybe check out internet about honor killings related to Turkish people...
http://hbv-awareness.com/turkey-grapples-with-spike-in-honor-killings/

TURKEY: A drastic rise in reported “honor” killings and fatal domestic violence in Turkey has sparked a vigorous debate about the government’s recent attempts to address the problem. It also highlights the clash of conservative values with the country’s rapid modernization.

Government figures released in February suggest murders of women increased 14-fold in seven years, from 66 in 2002, to 953 in the first seven months of 2009. In the past seven months, one rights organization has compiled more than 264 cases – nearly one per day – reported in the press in which a woman was killed by a family member, husband, ex-husband, or partner.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/30/world/europe/turkey-germany-honor-killing.html
Hatun Surucu, 23, was killed at a Berlin bus stop when her youngest brother fired three bullets into her head. The brothers said the family’s honor had been offended because she divorced the man her family had forced her to marry at age 16 and then began dating and refused to wear a head scarf.
.....
Though her family is ethnically Kurdish, and originally from Turkey, Ms. Surucu was born and raised in Germany. Her murder, after a series of similar so-called honor killings of Muslim women in Germany, sent shock waves through the country.
.....
Prosecutors said that her conservative and religious brothers felt dishonored after she began refusing to wear a head scarf and started dating a German man. A German judge described the attack by Ayhan Surucu as “an ice-cold, execution-style murder.”
.....
Ms. Surucu’s youngest brother, Ayhan, admitted that he had killed her, and he was jailed for nine years in a German prison.


In a German documentary released in 2011, Mutlu Surucu said his sister’s “lifestyle change” justified her murder. “Why does a woman need to dress up so prettily?” he reportedly asked. “Why does she need to go out on the town? To attract men.”


Sorry, but this is no valid argument to kill a 23 y/o woman in Germany waiting for a bus with a gun...

Daily life is rather restricted for ordinary people in Turkey, especially women. I am not a feminist, but too much is too much.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/04/girl-buried-alive-turkey

The article below reported the arrest of relatives on suspicion of killing a teenager for having friendships with boys. More than 200 such killings take place each year, said the piece, "accounting for around half of all murders in Turkey". According to Eurostat, Turkey's yearly murder rate averaged 6.1 per 100,000 population between 2005 and 2007 (the ­latest figures), meaning that the 200 are actually set against an annual total of about 4,400.

Turkish police have recovered the body of a 16-year-old girl they say was buried alive by relatives in an "honour" killing carried out as punishment for talking to boys.

The girl, who has been identified only by the initials MM, was found in a sitting position with her hands tied, in a two-metre hole dug under a chicken pen outside her home in Kahta, in the south-eastern province of Adiyaman.
.....
the father had told relatives he was unhappy that his daughter – one of nine children – had male friends. The grandfather is said to have beaten her for having relations with the opposite sex.

A postmortem examination revealed large amounts of soil in her lungs and stomach, indicating that she had been alive and conscious while being buried.Her body showed no signs of bruising.


I don't care if you keep your daughter at home and if she does not follow give her some slaps in her face or some smacks on her bottom, I am OK with that.
However I will never be supportive to such severe mistreatment and killings. People who are doing such things to their own relatives are religious bigots, totally crazy and dangerous.

You present some rich women of the high society of Turkish ethnicity, living abroad or in Istanbul and tell me their life-style is about the same as those of the ordinary people in small cities or rural areas in the large Asian part of Turkey. That's totally wrong, of course.
User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2666
Joined: April 3rd, 2014, 6:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Misko_Varesanovic » November 11th, 2017, 3:14 pm

Double post - my apologies.
Last edited by Misko_Varesanovic on November 14th, 2017, 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Misko_Varesanovic
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 61
Joined: March 13th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Re: Do Muslim men have it easy with women?

Postby Misko_Varesanovic » November 11th, 2017, 3:16 pm

Yohan wrote:
Misko_Varesanovic wrote:A small selection of contemporary Turkish actresses:
1. Saadet Isıl Aksoy
2. Nur Aysan
3. Ezgi Asaroglu
4. Gulcan Aslan
5. Tuba Buyukustan

You forget to mention that one of these persons is not a Muslim using an additional Christian name, another one is living in USA and a third one is half German/Turkish, born in Germany.

I did not check out the private life of all the others in details and what they did in 2006, but it is a big difference if we talk about Islam somewhere in an ordinary city or rural area in the Asian part of Turkey or if we talk about the daily life of an actress of Turkish ethnicity living in the USA, California, Los Angeles and as a contract with L'Oreal Paris.

Maybe check out internet about honor killings related to Turkish people...
http://hbv-awareness.com/turkey-grapples-with-spike-in-honor-killings/

TURKEY: A drastic rise in reported “honor” killings and fatal domestic violence in Turkey has sparked a vigorous debate about the government’s recent attempts to address the problem. It also highlights the clash of conservative values with the country’s rapid modernization.

Government figures released in February suggest murders of women increased 14-fold in seven years, from 66 in 2002, to 953 in the first seven months of 2009. In the past seven months, one rights organization has compiled more than 264 cases – nearly one per day – reported in the press in which a woman was killed by a family member, husband, ex-husband, or partner.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/30/world/europe/turkey-germany-honor-killing.html
Hatun Surucu, 23, was killed at a Berlin bus stop when her youngest brother fired three bullets into her head. The brothers said the family’s honor had been offended because she divorced the man her family had forced her to marry at age 16 and then began dating and refused to wear a head scarf.
.....
Though her family is ethnically Kurdish, and originally from Turkey, Ms. Surucu was born and raised in Germany. Her murder, after a series of similar so-called honor killings of Muslim women in Germany, sent shock waves through the country.
.....
Prosecutors said that her conservative and religious brothers felt dishonored after she began refusing to wear a head scarf and started dating a German man. A German judge described the attack by Ayhan Surucu as “an ice-cold, execution-style murder.”
.....
Ms. Surucu’s youngest brother, Ayhan, admitted that he had killed her, and he was jailed for nine years in a German prison.


In a German documentary released in 2011, Mutlu Surucu said his sister’s “lifestyle change” justified her murder. “Why does a woman need to dress up so prettily?” he reportedly asked. “Why does she need to go out on the town? To attract men.”


Sorry, but this is no valid argument to kill a 23 y/o woman in Germany waiting for a bus with a gun...

Daily life is rather restricted for ordinary people in Turkey, especially women. I am not a feminist, but too much is too much.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/04/girl-buried-alive-turkey

The article below reported the arrest of relatives on suspicion of killing a teenager for having friendships with boys. More than 200 such killings take place each year, said the piece, "accounting for around half of all murders in Turkey". According to Eurostat, Turkey's yearly murder rate averaged 6.1 per 100,000 population between 2005 and 2007 (the ­latest figures), meaning that the 200 are actually set against an annual total of about 4,400.

Turkish police have recovered the body of a 16-year-old girl they say was buried alive by relatives in an "honour" killing carried out as punishment for talking to boys.

The girl, who has been identified only by the initials MM, was found in a sitting position with her hands tied, in a two-metre hole dug under a chicken pen outside her home in Kahta, in the south-eastern province of Adiyaman.
.....
the father had told relatives he was unhappy that his daughter – one of nine children – had male friends. The grandfather is said to have beaten her for having relations with the opposite sex.

A postmortem examination revealed large amounts of soil in her lungs and stomach, indicating that she had been alive and conscious while being buried.Her body showed no signs of bruising.


I don't care if you keep your daughter at home and if she does not follow give her some slaps in her face or some smacks on her bottom, I am OK with that.
However I will never be supportive to such severe mistreatment and killings. People who are doing such things to their own relatives are religious bigots, totally crazy and dangerous.

You present some rich women of the high society of Turkish ethnicity, living abroad or in Istanbul and tell me their life-style is about the same as those of the ordinary people in small cities or rural areas in the large Asian part of Turkey. That's totally wrong, of course.


1. Firstly, it's obvious that you don't realise the enormous size of the Turkish media industry. This is a country that is the second largest exporter of scripted television content after the United States of America. Think about that! The number of writers and performers required to sustain such an industry is absolutely massive. I picked these five women. I could have picked a thousand others - and that is not an exaggeration. And so what if a handful of them are part-German? That is entirely natural: there are millions of Turks in the EU. It would be amazing if there was not some mixing going on.

2. Secondly, elite level actresses everywhere live at a much higher level than the general population. It would be preposterous to claim otherwise, and I never did. This irony is that because the income gap and socio-spatial segregation between the super-rich and everyone else in the US is bigger than in Turkey, the lived experience of these actresses will generally be much closer to their middle-class counterparts than in America. To give just one example, even in the most upscale districts of Istanbul, you can find mosques where rich and poor pray side by side.

3. Thirdly, you don't seem to be aware of Turkey's macroeconomic fundamentals. Turkey is an upper-middle income country which is classified as a developed country even by the CIA. The PPP GDP per capita is nearly US$30,000/year - and that's an average. The poorer bits of Turkey are generally in the south-east of the country, which has been an on-off war zone since 1984: the government are fighting Marxist-Leninist rebels in that 'hood.

4. Fourthly, if you're okay with domestic violence, that is your stance. Personally I think that's a very sad position to hold. There are better ways of convincing people than through violence.

5. Finally, you seem to think that Muslim-majority countries have a monopoly on serious domestic abuse. They don't. In fact, domestic abuse (including so-called honour killings) in countries such as Mexico and Brazil dwarfs anything in the Islamic world: the sheer number of 'disappeared' and/or murdered women in those nations is truly scary.
Misko_Varesanovic
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 61
Joined: March 13th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Previous

Return to Religion and Spirituality

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest