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An intelligent Christian

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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Re: An intelligent Christian

Postby Adama » May 20th, 2017, 5:04 pm

Kradmelder wrote:
Jehovahs spend their time going door to door trying to tell you about God. What makes them such an authority? The self rightousness that makes people think their faith, or their way of understanding God is the only right way and they must come to your home unasked to tell you turns people off. On the internet i can choose not to read or to delete. Come to my door and i can slam it in your fave and chase you away, and it has nothing to do with hating god.

If they are open to it they will ask or come to it themselves. If i have a theological question i will ask someone who studied theology and has a proven reputation in it, not some wingnut who comes to my door to tell me.


I always advise people to never listen to a Jehovah's Witness. They have nothing to do with Christ. If anyone with any intelligence listens to their doctrine for only a few moments, it becomes clear that it is damnable heresy to the level of absurdity. You'd have to be a very confused individual to fall prey to their doctrine. It is FALSE Christianity. Look it up for yourself somewhere if you don't believe me. It is a deception of Satan.

But if you do fall prey to their doctrine, it may damn your soul, and they will have you out there preaching their lies to deceive others. On some level, since they require everyone to go out "soul winning", each one that goes out becomes a false prophet.

As for knocking doors by itself, the commandment by Jesus Himself is to preach the Word and to go out.

Most Christians have received a false gospel, which twists the Bible into a false way which doesn't bring salvation. Unfortunately, so many people are so prideful in their religion that you can't even tell them, and they think it is just a simple disagreement.
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Re: An intelligent Christian

Postby Adama » May 20th, 2017, 5:25 pm

MrMan wrote:I know a man who studies this sort of thing who says that first century Judaism may not have had the men and women sit separately.


It's a non-issue because it doesn't matter. If God thought it was important to segregate the sexes during a service, He would have told us explicitly to do so in the book He gave us. If it is not in the book, then all it is, is straining at a gnat to swallow a camel. They won't overlook this "doctrine" but they completely ignore the weightier matters.
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Re: An intelligent Christian

Postby MrMan » May 20th, 2017, 5:27 pm

Adama wrote:
MrMan wrote:
Adama wrote:I don't know about communities. They seem to live interspersed with everyone else around here. No real ethnic Muslim neighborhoods. This isn't France or Dearborn. As a matter of fact though, I knocked on one Muslim family's door a couple of weeks ago. The man opened the door and said, "This is a Muslim house." Then we left.

Once someone declares their religion to me, generally I leave them alone, because most of them aren't interested in hearing what I have to say. Sectarians are often hard to win over.



Or you could have said to them in Arabic, "It's great that you want to submit to God in this house. We want to tell you have you can really submit to God."

If someone says, "I'm Jewish", you can say, "What a coincidence. My Rabbi is Jewish!"


Just curious. How many times has this worked for you? I don't change what I say for anyone. For everyone, I say more or less the same things. So it doesn't matter what religion they are, they all are given the same treatment with similar words. The script is not altered just because they belong to a different sect.

The question is simple, Do they want to believe in Christ or don't they? That's the one answer that they must give in the affirmative. If they say no, I move on. No sense in me wasting my time talking to someone who rejects Christ when there are many who are able and willing to believe in Him. So I really don't waste time with Muslims and Jews. I also usually don't bother with Seventh Day Adventists or Jehovah's Witnesses either.


If someone is raised Muslim, that doesn't mean he knows the claims of Christ and has chosen to refuse them. Muslims are taught that 'Isa is a great prophet. Just about every non-Christian's belief system either rejects Christ outright or is inconsistent with faith in Jesus.

I don't do the door knocking thing. It doesn't work when people live in secure apartments or houses with gates around them and you need a key to get through the gate to get into the yard. But I can have a conversation with someone and tell them what I believe as a Christian. Does it 'work.' I can have a conversation with a Muslim. That works. It is a lot easier to challenge someone who grew up with some cultural Christian beliefs who acknowledges to some degree the Bible is true, to get someone to pray a prayer with you, or whatever. Does that 'work'? It works if the person believes. You can get someone to pray a prayer with you if they don't believe if you are pushy or they don't mind going along with what you say, too. I did that when I was young and wasn't connecting the dots on what was going on. I'd rather just present the truth and let people wrestle with it for a while, sometimes.

I'd imagine it's unlikely the Muslims I've interacted the most with, who might have gotten some Classical Arabic as a second language when they were kids, would understand an Arabic sentence like that. They might not pick up on the Muslim--submitter connection if they didn't speak Arabic. It makes more sense to do that with Arabs. I'd have to learn the Arabic if i were going to try that. I don't think I've heard anyone say, "I'm Jewish" since I thought of the "My rabbi is Jewish" response.

With Muslims, though, some of them are open to hearing about Jesus. One man who works with them prays that the Lord will lead him to people who are ready to receive, and found that was effective. I've known former Muslims who converted. If no one shared the Gospel with them, how would they believe? One of them said that the ones who shared with him challenged him on the issue of forgiveness of sin. He had no guarantee or hope of it in his religion, and Jesus offered it.

Another approach is to ask a Muslim if he's ever stolen anything, and then offer to chop off his hand for him. There is a hadith about a woman who stole a sheet and was brought before Muhammad. She asked to be forgiven and to keep her hand. Muhammad told her when her hand was removed, she would be as innocent as she was the day she was born. Muslims, some of them at least, believe their body parts will testify against them at the day of judgment. Tell him he doesn't want that hand on the day of judgment. Offer to chop if off. Then explain how Chrsitians believe sins are forgiven. You can also ask if he believes at the judgement, there will be a scale with black rocks for sins and white rocks for good deeds. Tell him about the parable the Prophet Jesus told about the unprofitable servants. Then ask, why would you get a white rock for a good deed? That's your duty? Where do the white rocks come from? You'll just get black rocks if God uses a scale like that. How do you pay for your sins?

If they ask about the deity of Jesus, ask if the Bible and their book teach that Mary was a virgin, that Jesus had no human Father, but that He was born by a miracle from God, who is His Father?

You can also point out that the Bible and their book call Jesus the Word of God. Point out that we think and speak in words. Ask if there was any time God was without the ability to speak or think? Was there a point of time in the past that He gained this ability? It is likely that he will say he is not allowed to speculate about God in such a manner, but it may get him to think.

I can't say I've seen a conversion with that. For some of them, it takes some time. A lot of the ones who convert had dreams about Jesus or other experiences like that, at least according to stats I've read that site some kind of missions source.
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Re: An intelligent Christian

Postby Adama » May 20th, 2017, 5:35 pm

MrMan wrote:
Adama wrote:
MrMan wrote:
Adama wrote:I don't know about communities. They seem to live interspersed with everyone else around here. No real ethnic Muslim neighborhoods. This isn't France or Dearborn. As a matter of fact though, I knocked on one Muslim family's door a couple of weeks ago. The man opened the door and said, "This is a Muslim house." Then we left.

Once someone declares their religion to me, generally I leave them alone, because most of them aren't interested in hearing what I have to say. Sectarians are often hard to win over.



Or you could have said to them in Arabic, "It's great that you want to submit to God in this house. We want to tell you have you can really submit to God."

If someone says, "I'm Jewish", you can say, "What a coincidence. My Rabbi is Jewish!"


Just curious. How many times has this worked for you? I don't change what I say for anyone. For everyone, I say more or less the same things. So it doesn't matter what religion they are, they all are given the same treatment with similar words. The script is not altered just because they belong to a different sect.

The question is simple, Do they want to believe in Christ or don't they? That's the one answer that they must give in the affirmative. If they say no, I move on. No sense in me wasting my time talking to someone who rejects Christ when there are many who are able and willing to believe in Him. So I really don't waste time with Muslims and Jews. I also usually don't bother with Seventh Day Adventists or Jehovah's Witnesses either.


If someone is raised Muslim, that doesn't mean he knows the claims of Christ and has chosen to refuse them. Muslims are taught that 'Isa is a great prophet. Just about every non-Christian's belief system either rejects Christ outright or is inconsistent with faith in Jesus.

I don't do the door knocking thing. It doesn't work when people live in secure apartments or houses with gates around them and you need a key to get through the gate to get into the yard. But I can have a conversation with someone and tell them what I believe as a Christian. Does it 'work.' I can have a conversation with a Muslim. That works. It is a lot easier to challenge someone who grew up with some cultural Christian beliefs who acknowledges to some degree the Bible is true, to get someone to pray a prayer with you, or whatever. Does that 'work'? It works if the person believes. You can get someone to pray a prayer with you if they don't believe if you are pushy or they don't mind going along with what you say, too. I did that when I was young and wasn't connecting the dots on what was going on. I'd rather just present the truth and let people wrestle with it for a while, sometimes.

I'd imagine it's unlikely the Muslims I've interacted the most with, who might have gotten some Classical Arabic as a second language when they were kids, would understand an Arabic sentence like that. They might not pick up on the Muslim--submitter connection if they didn't speak Arabic. It makes more sense to do that with Arabs. I'd have to learn the Arabic if i were going to try that. I don't think I've heard anyone say, "I'm Jewish" since I thought of the "My rabbi is Jewish" response.

With Muslims, though, some of them are open to hearing about Jesus. One man who works with them prays that the Lord will lead him to people who are ready to receive, and found that was effective. I've known former Muslims who converted. If no one shared the Gospel with them, how would they believe? One of them said that the ones who shared with him challenged him on the issue of forgiveness of sin. He had no guarantee or hope of it in his religion, and Jesus offered it.

Another approach is to ask a Muslim if he's ever stolen anything, and then offer to chop off his hand for him. There is a hadith about a woman who stole a sheet and was brought before Muhammad. She asked to be forgiven and to keep her hand. Muhammad told her when her hand was removed, she would be as innocent as she was the day she was born. Muslims, some of them at least, believe their body parts will testify against them at the day of judgment. Tell him he doesn't want that hand on the day of judgment. Offer to chop if off. Then explain how Chrsitians believe sins are forgiven. You can also ask if he believes at the judgement, there will be a scale with black rocks for sins and white rocks for good deeds. Tell him about the parable the Prophet Jesus told about the unprofitable servants. Then ask, why would you get a white rock for a good deed? That's your duty? Where do the white rocks come from? You'll just get black rocks if God uses a scale like that. How do you pay for your sins?

If they ask about the deity of Jesus, ask if the Bible and their book teach that Mary was a virgin, that Jesus had no human Father, but that He was born by a miracle from God, who is His Father?

You can also point out that the Bible and their book call Jesus the Word of God. Point out that we think and speak in words. Ask if there was any time God was without the ability to speak or think? Was there a point of time in the past that He gained this ability? It is likely that he will say he is not allowed to speculate about God in such a manner, but it may get him to think.

I can't say I've seen a conversion with that. For some of them, it takes some time. A lot of the ones who convert had dreams about Jesus or other experiences like that, at least according to stats I've read that site some kind of missions source.


Thanks for trying to answer my question. It seems to me that you have not taken your own advice which you give to others.
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Re: An intelligent Christian

Postby MrMan » May 20th, 2017, 5:39 pm

Adama,

I haven't had a chance. There aren't many Jewish people or Arabic speakers here. If I were knocking on doors and met lots of people who said "I'm Jewish" or "We are Muslim", I might do that, though. I'm waiting for a good opportunity to use the "What a coincidence! My Rabbi is Jewish" line when I get the chance.

I have had conversations with the other points I made in that last post.

If something you say gets you an opportunity to tell someone the Gospel it 'works' whether they respond positively to it or not. You can share the Gospel and try to persuade. The other person has to believe, and the Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.
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