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Did Jesus Rise From The Dead? The Case For His Resurrection.

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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Winston
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Re: Did Jesus Rise From The Dead?

Post by Winston » May 31st, 2018, 10:42 am

TruthSeeker wrote:
May 21st, 2018, 8:46 am
Winston wrote:
May 19th, 2018, 9:52 pm
Why not? If God or Jesus wanted the world to believe, then wouldn't it make more sense for Jesus to show himself to the rest of the world too? Including the Pharisees that crucified him, the Roman guards, Pontius Pilate, etc. Even the Emperor of Rome himself. That would be the best way of showing the whole world the validity of his Gospel message. Otherwise, what a wasted opportunity. Why doesn't Jesus show himself today to everyone too? It just doesn't make much sense. If the purpose is to convert the world, then it makes sense to show as many people as possible. Then they would have no excuse for not believing. That's what I would do if I were God. Then I'd have Jesus say "Now you see me resurrected, you should know that I died for your sins and rose again, as you can see. If you believe in me, you can be saved. If not, you will be damned. Up to you. The choice is yours." to each person individually.

Furthermore, even if Jesus only wanted to show himself to his disciples, still wasn't he resurrected for 40 days? If so, during that time, word would have spread fast, to the point where the Roman guards and Pontius Pilate would come investigate and check to see if it's true. Think about it. If someone really rose from the dead, they'd get a lot of attention and word would spread fast. Especially over the course of 40 days.

Also, why did Jesus ascend into heaven after 40 days? Because 40 is a magic number? Why not stick around to convert more people and help liberate the Jews, or gain more followers? What's the rush? Was God on a tight schedule? lol.
Jesus already did show himself. Most Bible scholars would agree his earthly ministry lasted 3 years. He preached the gospel, healed the sick, raised the dead, did miracles and for that they crucified him.

Then He says in Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power, after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and you shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

God doesn't do things in a way that may make logical sense to you Winston. The goal of Christianity is not to get the maximum number of converts as possible or to convert the whole world. Jesus said few there be that find it. (Matt. 7:14).

So you lack understanding Winston because you have not studied the Scriptures.
That's not true. There are many Bible verses where it says God or Jesus wants everyone to be saved. And others that say God only wants some to be saved. Take your pick. The Bible doesn't say one thing. It says a lot of different things. For every position you take, I can find Bible verses that say otherwise. So what can you do? You gotta find an interpretation that takes into account all verses, which is difficult because it means giving up some of your doctrines, including popular ones in America such as "salvation through faith only". All the Christian doctrines you believe in can be contradicted by some verses don't agree with it.

This is why you can't take the Bible literally, because if you did, you run into HUNDREDS of problems. That's why the wisest and smartest people take the Bible metaphorically and allegorically, not literally. See my new post about this here where I elaborate on many reasons and angles.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37307
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Re: Did Jesus Rise From The Dead? The Case For His Resurrection.

Post by TruthSeeker » May 31st, 2018, 12:14 pm

OK Winston, just show me one verse where God wants everyone saved. Just one.

There's only one that even comes close to that and I will pull it up for you.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But if you examine it more closely, look what it says. "longsuffering to us-ward" Us-ward - that means us - the household of faith, the Church, not the world. He is not willing that any of us that in the Church perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Then they will use John 3:16

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What that means is the God so loved the world, His creation, that He wanted to redeem it. "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

There are very few that actually believe in Jesus Christ. Especially in these pagan countries.

So look, the Gospel has been preached to every creature under heaven (Colossians 1:23) but for the most part has been rejected. That is why Jesus said narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:14).

Most prefer their other gods. (1 Corinthians 8:5)

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Re: Did Jesus Rise From The Dead? The Case For His Resurrection.

Post by Winston » May 31st, 2018, 12:55 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 12:14 pm
OK Winston, just show me one verse where God wants everyone saved. Just one.

There's only one that even comes close to that and I will pull it up for you.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But if you examine it more closely, look what it says. "longsuffering to us-ward" Us-ward - that means us - the household of faith, the Church, not the world. He is not willing that any of us that in the Church perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Then they will use John 3:16

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What that means is the God so loved the world, His creation, that He wanted to redeem it. "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

There are very few that actually believe in Jesus Christ. Especially in these pagan countries.

So look, the Gospel has been preached to every creature under heaven (Colossians 1:23) but for the most part has been rejected. That is why Jesus said narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:14).

Most prefer their other gods. (1 Corinthians 8:5)
Yes those were the verses I was thinking of. What about the one that says "that the world might be saved through him"? I think it's in one of the epistles. I'm sure there's more somewhere. But these are word games and semantics. We can debate what "we" or "all" means all day long. The point is, every position has Bible verses to support it, and Bible verses against it. Even the Catholic Church has their apologists who claim that the Bible supports the papacy. See here for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KV6PXSODgE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6EhJNQUTvI

The Bible isn't meant to be taken literally. Once you realize that, all these discrepancies, contradictions and problems are dropped and the pressure and frustration are off.
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Re: Did Jesus Rise From The Dead? The Case For His Resurrection.

Post by TruthSeeker » May 31st, 2018, 1:08 pm

The Bible does not support the Papacy.

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Even that word Papacy comes from the root Papa or Father. The RCC calls every priest Father and you have to address them as Father which is a direct contradiction to what Jesus taught.

Anyway I am sure this has been debated here before but I do like your post about 2028. Seems a good date as any.

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Re: Did Jesus Rise From The Dead? The Case For His Resurrection.

Post by TruthSeeker » May 31st, 2018, 4:18 pm

Winston, the verse you are referring to is

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

What that means is exactly that. He didn't send Jesus to condemn, but to save. So anyone in the world can be saved through Him. It does not say that everyone will be. It says "that the world through him *might* be saved". Might be. In other words everyone has that possibility. Sadly most reject.

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Re: Did Jesus Rise From The Dead?

Post by Adama » May 31st, 2018, 11:41 pm

Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:42 am

That's not true. There are many Bible verses where it says God or Jesus wants everyone to be saved. And others that say God only wants some to be saved. Take your pick. The Bible doesn't say one thing. It says a lot of different things. For every position you take, I can find Bible verses that say otherwise. So what can you do? You gotta find an interpretation that takes into account all verses, which is difficult because it means giving up some of your doctrines, including popular ones in America such as "salvation through faith only". All the Christian doctrines you believe in can be contradicted by some verses don't agree with it.

This is why you can't take the Bible literally, because if you did, you run into HUNDREDS of problems. That's why the wisest and smartest people take the Bible metaphorically and allegorically, not literally. See my new post about this here where I elaborate on many reasons and angles.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37307
The Bible does not in any way contradict itself. It is only that it doesn't make sense to unbelievers. There are no problems with it. The problem is that unbelievers cannot understand, because the Holy Ghost has not been imparted to them by God. It is the Holy Ghost who interprets for the believers. Unbelievers do not have the gift of the Holy Ghost. So naturally it makes no sense to them, until after they get saved, which is when the Holy Ghost is given.

If a person cannot believe in Christ or refuses to believe in Christ, they will never understand the Bible. God hasn't given them understanding because they do not have the Holy Ghost, the interpreter.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.

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Re: Did Jesus Rise From The Dead?

Post by Adama » May 31st, 2018, 11:53 pm

Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:42 am

That's not true. There are many Bible verses where it says God or Jesus wants everyone to be saved. And others that say God only wants some to be saved. Take your pick. The Bible doesn't say one thing. It says a lot of different things. For every position you take, I can find Bible verses that say otherwise. So what can you do? You gotta find an interpretation that takes into account all verses, which is difficult because it means giving up some of your doctrines, including popular ones in America such as "salvation through faith only". All the Christian doctrines you believe in can be contradicted by some verses don't agree with it.

This is why you can't take the Bible literally, because if you did, you run into HUNDREDS of problems. That's why the wisest and smartest people take the Bible metaphorically and allegorically, not literally. See my new post about this here where I elaborate on many reasons and angles.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37307
God wants everyone to be saved. If God no longer wants them, then at some point the person went way too far and deep into sin and became irredeemable by indulging in sins such as: murder, homosexuality, sleeping with other men's wives (and for women, cheating on her man), and covetousness. Some other sins put a person's soul at risk, such as: usury, worshiping false gods, rebelling against parents, (and naturally other strange things such as incest), etc.

Or they may have flat out rejected the gospel too many times (they refuse to believe in Christ).
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.

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Re: Did Jesus Rise From The Dead? The Case For His Resurrection.

Post by Winston » June 1st, 2018, 2:07 am

TruthSeeker wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 4:18 pm
Winston, the verse you are referring to is

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

What that means is exactly that. He didn't send Jesus to condemn, but to save. So anyone in the world can be saved through Him. It does not say that everyone will be. It says "that the world through him *might* be saved". Might be. In other words everyone has that possibility. Sadly most reject.
Of course most people will not become Christians. But that's not the point. You originally said that God did not INTEND or WANT everyone to be saved. Those verses suggest otherwise. The issue is whether God WANTS everyone to be saved, not whether everyone will. See the point? The verses above seem to indicate that the whole world was intended to be saved or that God was trying or hoping to save the world and everyone in it. Of course, other verses say otherwise, but I never claimed the Bible was consistent or perfect. Only fanatics do, and they are wrong of course.
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Re: Did Jesus Rise From The Dead?

Post by Winston » June 1st, 2018, 2:12 am

Adama wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 11:41 pm
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:42 am

That's not true. There are many Bible verses where it says God or Jesus wants everyone to be saved. And others that say God only wants some to be saved. Take your pick. The Bible doesn't say one thing. It says a lot of different things. For every position you take, I can find Bible verses that say otherwise. So what can you do? You gotta find an interpretation that takes into account all verses, which is difficult because it means giving up some of your doctrines, including popular ones in America such as "salvation through faith only". All the Christian doctrines you believe in can be contradicted by some verses don't agree with it.

This is why you can't take the Bible literally, because if you did, you run into HUNDREDS of problems. That's why the wisest and smartest people take the Bible metaphorically and allegorically, not literally. See my new post about this here where I elaborate on many reasons and angles.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37307
The Bible does not in any way contradict itself. It is only that it doesn't make sense to unbelievers. There are no problems with it. The problem is that unbelievers cannot understand, because the Holy Ghost has not been imparted to them by God. It is the Holy Ghost who interprets for the believers. Unbelievers do not have the gift of the Holy Ghost. So naturally it makes no sense to them, until after they get saved, which is when the Holy Ghost is given.

If a person cannot believe in Christ or refuses to believe in Christ, they will never understand the Bible. God hasn't given them understanding because they do not have the Holy Ghost, the interpreter.
That's not true. That's just what you BELIEVE. Even the most devout Christians who think they are filled with the holy spirit have different interpretations of the Bible. You know there are a hundred verses that indicate that Jesus is God, and a hundred other verses that say he is not God. Which do you believe? BOTH are in the Bible. You can't reject either group. When Jesus said "I and the Father are one" does he mean they are the same person or just have the same unity in purpose? It could mean either. Take your pick. There is no objective science to this, even if one were 100 percent logical like a machine.
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

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Re: Did Jesus Rise From The Dead? The Case For His Resurrection.

Post by Adama » June 1st, 2018, 2:24 am

Have it your way, Winston.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.

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