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Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

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Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston » May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am

Here are many good reasons why you can't the Bible literally, only metaphorically and allegorically. I been meaning to write this for a long time now. It will cover many areas. Here we go.

First, the Bible doesn't say one thing. It says a lot of different things. For every position you take, I can find Bible verses that say otherwise. So what can you do? You gotta find an interpretation that takes into account all verses, which is difficult because it means giving up some of your doctrines, including popular ones in America such as "salvation through faith only". All the Christian doctrines you believe in can be contradicted by some verses don't agree with it. Even Catholic apologists have many verses and books that support their theology and papacy.

This is why you can't take the Bible literally, because if you did, you run into HUNDREDS of problems. That's why the wisest and smartest people take the Bible metaphorically and allegorically, not literally.

Of course, the Resurrection story as well as other stories in the Bible, such as the Fall in the Garden of Eden, make no sense. If Jesus really rose from the dead historically, word would have gotten around very fast. Pontius Pilate would have had his guards bring Jesus in for questioning. And Jesus would return periodically to have pep rallies with his Christian followers, or at least return to check in on them. He wouldn't just vanish for good. Also, history does not follow symbolic numbers repeatedly like 40 days. Only fictional stories do that. So literally the story makes no sense. Besides, dying and rising saviors is common in dozens of pagan religions, which has been well documented by many critics and authors already, including the first part of the Zeitgeist film.

As to the Garden of Eden story, no one would design a world where everything could get corrupted due to one little mistake. The worst computer programmer in the world would not design such a world or system. Also a misdemeanor such as eating a forbidden fruit deserves only a slap on the wrist, not a lifetime of punishment and pain for the whole world. The punishment simply doesn't fit the crime. Think about it. If your kids took cookies out of the jar after you told them not to, do you punish them for life? Yes or no? Of course not. That's a misdemeanor and you give them a slap on the wrist. The punishment must fit the crime. It makes no sense to claim that all the evil and suffering in the fallen world is due to two dumb people eating a forbidden apple. Come on. Think about it. No just father would punish their children for life just for a misdemeanor. Would you? Be honest. Thus the Garden of Eden story makes sense when taken literally. It must be a metaphor or allegory for something.

That's why sensible people don't take the Bible literally. There would be hundreds of problems and absurdities. HUNDREDS! That cannot be resolved. I told you all this before. But @Adama and @MrMan refuse to face this issue or respond to it. Deep down they know I'm right, but their beliefs are FIXED and so they cannot change it even if they want to. Even if their beliefs are proven wrong, they cannot change it because they are FIXED.

Another reason you can't take the Bible literally is:
- Jesus said to cut off your hand if it causes you to sin. Do Christians today take that literally? Do they cut off their hand or body parts for sin?
- Jesus said in many verses to give away all your belongings and be poor and homeless, like his disciples were. Yet Christians today eat and have houses and make money and do not give away all to the poor. No one follows that standard. Deepak Chopra said no one can follow Jesus' standard and live in the modern world. They'd have to live outside of civilization to follow Jesus' teachings in the Gospels to the T. They are impossible standards. And you know it.
- The Bible says at the end of Mark that believers can drink poison and not be hurt. Do Christians try to drink poison to test this claim? I doubt it. Not most of them anyway. It'd be foolish to try to drink poison to test it.
- The Bible says that "faith can move mountains". Yet no believer expects to actually move a mountain. So no one takes that literally.
Etc. Etc.

You see what I mean? No one can take the Bible literally. Christians are glad to admit the above examples should be taken metaphorically, BUT then why not take ALL of the Bible metaphorically? Why take any of it literally at all? You see what I mean? No Christian apologists have answered that. They always dodge hard questions. Even Adama and MrMan always dodge these questions. So I'm going to have to go to a higher source than them.

I found a courageous Christian apologist who does lectures and debates on YouTube named Frank Turek. He's the best Christian apologist debator out there that I've seen, even better than William Lane Craig, and is willing to answer any question. He acts like his Christian paradigm is perfect and can account for all things. I plan to make some videos to challenge him and also a webpage too.

Also, the Christian paradigm is not perfect and does not explain all data. For example, it doesn't account for the following phenomena that doesn't fit into its narrow worldview:

- Reincarnation
- Astrology
- NDE's

There is strong compelling evidence for these things, which I can go into for hours. But they don't fit into the paradigm of Christian fundamentalism. So what do Christians do? Claim they are all the work of the devil? We know how imbecilic and cheap and immature that is, to deny what you don't like by claiming it's of the the devil. Only a very small mind would do that. Unfortunately, Adama still does that sort of thing. He's never grown or evolved past it. Not everything that you disagree with is of the devil. That's friggin stupid! Claiming something is of Satan does NOT erase it or invalidate it. You still gotta account for it. The devil can't do everything.

There are many compelling cases of reincarnation. Anyone who has researched it and is a truth seeker knows this. Like the decades long work of Dr. Ian Stevenson for example. And many compelling cases that both Atheists and Christians can't explain, like the documented case of Jenny Cockwell in her book "Across Time and Death" where a mother searched for her past life children and eventually found them all. Or the boy who remembered his life as a WW2 pilot and all his memory details checked out. That story went viral and was even on ABC News, which you can see on YouTube. No one can explain those away. Satan cannot explain these cases either.

Astrology cannot be explained by Satan either. How did Satan make my personality fit my sun sign, moon sign and rising sign? Astrology produces patterns above chance. Study the work of Michel Gauquelin (French statistician) for proof. He flip flopped on the issue many times before concluding that astrology was real after all. I've seen astrology patterns in my life too. For example most of my closest male friends have been Cancers. And most of my ex girlfriends have been Aries. That's NOT a 1 out of 12 chance. Sorry stupid atheists and debunkers. And again, Satan cannot account for that. You can't use Satan to refuse to face data that doesn't fit into your beliefs. That's moronic and stupid and false.

If Adama's fundamentalist theology is absolutely true, then all non-Christians go to hell, no matter how good they are. But then how come when you research NDE's, you find that most of the experiencers who are not Christians experience God and Heaven during their NDE? Shouldn't all non-Christians only see hell during their NDE? How can they be seeing heaven or God or Jesus most of the time? For example, Dannion Brinkley, a popular NDEer, was a bad guy who did bad things most of his life. Yet during his NDE he saw God and peace and light and love, and it changed him into a kinder loving person. If he wasn't a good Christian, then he should have only seen hell. So you see, again, these NDE accounts that are well documented do not fit Christian fundamentalism.

So you see, it makes the most sense to take the Bible metaphorically, NOT literally. I gave many GOOD reasons above. Taking the Bible literally gives you too many problems. WAYYYYYY too many problems, which are unresolvable. And it does not account for many phenomena or data such as the above.

Also, the fundamentalist evangelical form of Christianity that Adama believes in is a MODERN American version. It's not the Christianity that Europeans believed in in the last 2000 years. You know the greatest geniuses and scientists who were Christian were not fundamentalists. For example, Isaac Newton, Galileo, Copernicus, DaVinci, etc. and even the Protestant Reformers like Martin Luther, were not fundamentalists like CS Lewis or Josh McDowell or Lee Strobel or Adama. They did not believe in stuff like:

- Every word of the Bible is inerrant and infallible and perfect.
- All non-Christians go to hell forever even if they were good people.
- Salvation is by faith and grace only, not by works or good behavior. Your behavior doesn't matter.
- Once saved, always saved. You can't lose your salvation.

No way jose. Those are ridiculous and not supported by the Bible. I'll prove it to you later. But Adama is not an objective truth seeker. He NEVER follows the evidence and refuses to change his belief even when he should or is proven wrong. He believes he has found the truth and refuses to change his fixed beliefs even if they are in error, and even if the Bible doesn't support them.

Christians have always believed that you had to obey God's commandments and do good works and do the will of God to get to heaven too. There are MANY Bible verses that say this, yet modern evangelists ignore them all! And of course if you turn from God, you can lose your salvation if you do too much evil. And of course good people can go to heaven if they live morally righteous lives, such as good Buddhists for example, especially if they never heard of Jesus and didn't get a chance to accept him. God is not that unfair.

The greatest minds in history who were Christians and God fearing believed all that. They didn't believe in the modern American version of fundamentalism or evangelical Christianity. That's a MODERN invention and is ridiculous and makes no sense and isn't even supported by the Bible either.

Also, Christians like to pounce on the Catholic Church for not following the Bible and for its pagan practices. However:

Did you know the Catholics have their apologists too? I saw many of them on YouTube and in books on Amazon.com. They have their defenses too. They are not defenseless. And they have a lot of Bible verses to support Catholic theology and the papacy too. Go on YouTube and look. So you see, even Catholics can use the Bible to justify their church and beliefs. Anyone can pick and choose parts of the Bible to support their beliefs. Adama can too, however I can find many verses that contradict his beliefs. We can play this game forever. But it's a waste of time. Better not to take it literally.

Here's another interesting thing to consider for Protestants: Remember the Fatima miracle in Portugal in 1917? Well on that day in October, 1917, about 70,000 people in Portugal saw a miracle. They saw the Sun move and zig zag and change colors and eventually got bigger as though it were falling down. Then afterward, the wet ground which had gotten wet from the rain, became completely DRY! So even if this was just a mass hallucination (which is implausible) that does NOT explain how the wet ground suddenly became DRY! It was a true miracle and well documented. 70,000 people witnessed it! Atheists cannot explain it! Nor can Protestants. There are movies about it too, such as "The 13th Day" and "The Miracle of Our Lady Fatima (1952)".

Furthermore, Fatima told the three girls a number of things that came true, such as that there would be a second world war after the first, that an evil revolution in Russia would begin, etc. She also gave them three prophecies too. The third one is hidden and known only to the Pope.

So if the Roman Catholic church is Satanic or not of God or not Biblical, like Protestant Christians claim, how can that be? How can Satan do all that? How can Satan make the Sun move and zig zag and chance colors, and dry the ground? Only God can do that.

Furthermore, you've all heard of all the documented healing miracles at Lourdes pool in France. It's a Catholic place for Catholics to get healed. Many have been healed there of many ailments. The Catholic church has documented cases of bones that healed and mended there. Of course, there are limits to the miracles, for example, people cannot regrow limbs there. But they get healed in many other ways that are well documented.

So if Catholicism is Satanic or false or non-Biblical, how can that be?

Because God or the divine works through many religions? Sure. Why not?

I gave 6 logical reasons why Jesus is not the only way to God in another thread, which has never been debunked, and which Adama is too scared to read, because his beliefs are FIXED and cannot be changed, because he doesn't want to change them and thus cannot, even when proven wrong. That's the problem with fundamentalism, it closes your mind and fixes your beliefs so they can never be changed or updated, even when they should be.

If you're a truth seeker, you should read great works or listen to lectures and interviews by great teachers such as Joseph Campbell, the world's greatest mythologist, or Carl Jung, one of the greatest psychologists. They also see the Bible as myth and allegory too.

Joseph Campbell said, "A myth is something that never was, but always is." So even if there was no historical Jesus or Buddha, still they represent a timeless eternal myth. Jesus is a symbol of our soul's need to die to its ego consciousness so it can be reborn into higher states of consciousness. So a myth contains a timeless truth, whereas a historical event just happens once.

Read the book "The Pagan Christ" by Tom Harpur. He explains this very well and draws on the wisdom of Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung, as well as Gerald Massey and Alvin Kuhn, who were way ahead of their time.

It's the same with Star Wars. Even if Star Wars is not a historical event, it still contains timeless truths such as the inner battle between good and evil, and the struggle between empires and freedom loving rebels, etc. In Empire Strikes Back, Luke Skywalker goes into this cave on Dagobah and knocks of an illusion of Vader's head. Then inside the head he sees his own face. This symbolizes his own inner struggle with evil. So you see, the motif is deep and timeless. You could say the same with the Bible stories.

In fact, Hollywood makes lots of movies that repeat the dying rising savior Christ motif, which is odd since Hollywood is run by Jews who supposedly hate Jesus. For example, in the movie Beastmaster with Marc Singer, when the protagonist is born, the king hears that the child will usurp him, so he has all the firstborn children of his kingdom killed, just like Herod the Great did in the Gospel stories. And at the end, a child dies but then is resurrected. Even back in 1959, there was an Audrey Hepburn movie where after she died in a burning tree, she rose again at the end, and only her lover in the forest saw her. And in the third Batman movie, Dark Knight Rises, after Batman sacrifices himself at the end in an explosion, the butler played by Michael Caine sees Batman again at a cafe with Catwoman. This again symbolizes the motif of loved ones seeing their protagonist rising again from the dead, but only in their own minds.

Movies also allude to Jesus in other ways too. In the 1972 Clint Eastwood movie "Play Misty For Me" when the psycho woman gets knocked off the cliff at the end, you can see her lying on the beach with her arms stretched out like Jesus on the cross. I've noticed that many movies show the dead or dying like Jesus on the cross. The cross motif is flashed many times if you pay attention. I don't know why Hollywood does this in countless films, but it does. Perhaps it's a motif of some sort. Even Star Wars has a lot of Jesus and Christian motifs if you look. Like Annakin having a virgin birth, etc.

Moreover, Christians still haven't explained why Philo of Alexandria, who documented the history of the Jews from 0 to 50 AD, never mentioned Jesus. Also repeated numbers such as 40 days or 40 years, etc. are not part of history, they are more part of fictional literature to symbolize something.

Think about this. Consider all the above. Meditate and ponder them. Look at the big picture. Then you will see that it only makes sense to take the Bible symbolically and metaphorically, not literally.

If you want to find truth, you have to study all the religions and philosophies and ancient textbooks, especially the esoteric ones that were for the inner circles of initiates only. Not only the exoteric ones (organized religions) which were meant for the masses only. That's what Theosophy is about - synthesizing all religions and learning from all of them, not just one. Theosophy was founded by Madame Helena Blavatsky, who was the first person in history to synthesize science, religion and philosophy into one, and the greatest female philosopher. Theosophy, Blavatsky says, is like the white color that contains all the colors of the rainbow, whereas each major religion is only one color of the rainbow. Yet the fundamentalist sects claim that the other colors don't exist and condemn even tints of its own color. Also, Christian Gnosticism is worth studying too, as well as Hinduism.

Truth doesn't come in a package like fast food, like Adama claims. It's a long term process of constantly searching and growing and evolving.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Adama » June 4th, 2018, 2:13 am

You cannot lose your salvation:

John 6:37 KJV
[37] All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28-29 KJV
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Adama » June 4th, 2018, 2:14 am

Salvation is the free gift of God for all who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, also known as The Christ, also known as the Messiah, also known as The Redeemer, also known as Saviour.

Romans 6:23 KJV
[23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 3:24 KJV Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Grace means unmerited/unearned favor.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Adama » June 4th, 2018, 2:15 am

To be saved, all a person has to do is believe in Jesus (that He is the Son of God):

John 6:47 KJV
[47] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Acts 16:30-31 KJV
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? [31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 5:13 KJV
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Adama » June 4th, 2018, 2:22 am

Behavior does matter. The punishment for sin is death. Since the souls of believers are saved from eternal death, their bodies can be punished in this life with disease and/or premature death. They can also suffer blindness of heart, sorrow, and more things.

Why is loss of salvation not possible? Because it is a gift, because it is not by works, because Christ promised He would never cast us out, because Christ promised He would never let anyone pluck us out of His hand, because we are sealed by the Holy Ghost.

However, a person can still die younger than they should have, they can suffer ailments, diseases and pestilences that they would not have otherwise had.

For some reason people think salvation must be by works. But if salvation were by works and we could do it ourselves, then Christ would have had no need to come save us.

Salvation occurs one time. It cannot be lost.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Adama » June 4th, 2018, 2:58 am

Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
Here are many good reasons why you can't the Bible literally, only metaphorically and allegorically. I been meaning to write this for a long time now. It will cover many areas. Here we go.

First, the Bible doesn't say one thing. It says a lot of different things. For every position you take, I can find Bible verses that say otherwise. So what can you do? You gotta find an interpretation that takes into account all verses, which is difficult because it means giving up some of your doctrines, including popular ones in America such as "salvation through faith only". All the Christian doctrines you believe in can be contradicted by some verses don't agree with it. Even Catholic apologists have many verses and books that support their theology and papacy.
The Bible is 100% consistent with itself. It's only that unbelievers cannot understand, because God is not with them to interpret.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
This is why you can't take the Bible literally, because if you did, you run into HUNDREDS of problems. That's why the wisest and smartest people take the Bible metaphorically and allegorically, not literally.
It's just that unbelievers don't know when something is a parable versus something literal.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
Of course, the Resurrection story as well as other stories in the Bible, such as the Fall in the Garden of Eden, make no sense. If Jesus really rose from the dead historically, word would have gotten around very fast. Pontius Pilate would have had his guards bring Jesus in for questioning. And Jesus would return periodically to have pep rallies with his Christian followers, or at least return to check in on them. He wouldn't just vanish for good. Also, history does not follow symbolic numbers repeatedly like 40 days. Only fictional stories do that.
Only certain of the believers knew of His resurrection. Also, Pilate didn't want to hurt Christ. It was the Jews who wanted Him to die, because they were envious.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
As to the Garden of Eden story, no one would design a world where everything could get corrupted due to one little mistake. The worst computer programmer in the world would not design such a world or system. Also a misdemeanor such as eating a forbidden fruit deserves only a slap on the wrist, not a lifetime of punishment and pain for the whole world. The punishment simply doesn't fit the crime. Think about it. If your kids took cookies out of the jar after you told them not to, do you punish them for life? Yes or no? Of course not. That's a misdemeanor and you give them a slap on the wrist. The punishment must fit the crime. It makes no sense to claim that all the evil and suffering in the fallen world is due to two dumb people eating a forbidden apple. Come on. Think about it. No just father would punish their children for life just for a misdemeanor. Would you? Be honest.
That's because you have no idea the kind of good things God has stored up for believers. This world you see is not the only world there is. There is another world to come, much more glorious than this one.

Also, just because the world fell, it doesn't mean that all is lost.

What happens now? What happens now is that, God gives everyone a choice: Everyone gets free will to decide where they want to go. This life determines where each person will go.

Now, if Adam had not caused a fall, another man probably would have. Because God gives everyone a choice.

By choosing to believe in Christ, the believer gets to live again, on the next world. By refusing Christ some unmentionable terror will happen to them, continually, repeatedly, things which should kill them, forever more.

However, in the next world, there will be no fall. Because there will be no sin or death. For every believer who accepted Christ in this world, by doing so, they chose to never sin again in the next world. There will not be any tempter or adversary there either. Everyone will be completely righteous.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
That's why sensible people don't take the Bible literally. There would be hundreds of problems. HUNDREDS! That cannot be resolved. I told you all this before. But @Adama and @MrMan refuse to face this issue or respond to it. Deep down they know I'm right, but their beliefs are FIXED and so they cannot change it even if they want to. Even if their beliefs are proven wrong, they cannot change it because they are FIXED.
The only problem is for those who are unlearned.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
Another reason you can't take the Bible literally is:
- Jesus said in many verses to give away all your belongings and be poor and homeless, like his disciples were. Yet Christians today eat and have houses and make money and do not give away all to the poor. No one follows that standard. Deepak Chopra said no one can follow Jesus' standard and live in the modern world. They'd have to live outside of civilization to follow Jesus' teachings in the Gospels to the T. They are impossible standards. And you know it.
- The Bible says at the end of Mark that believers can drink poison and not be hurt. Do Christians try to drink poison to test this claim? I doubt it. Not most of them anyway. It'd be foolish to try to drink poison to test it.
- The Bible says that "faith can move mountains". Yet no believer expects to actually move a mountain. So no one takes that literally.
Etc. Etc.
Christ was explaining how precious eternal life is. Sacrifice in this life to have the next life, which is much more glorious than this one.

Also, lots of Christians give money to the poor.

As for faith moving mountains, that just shows how little faith we have as people.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
You see what I mean? No one can take the Bible literally. Christians are glad to admit the above examples should be taken metaphorically, BUT then why not take ALL of the Bible metaphorically? Why take any of it literally at all? You see what I mean? No Christian apologists have answered that. They always dodge hard questions. Even Adama and MrMan always dodge these questions. So I'm going to have to go to a higher source than them.

I found a courageous Christian apologist who does lectures and debates on YouTube named Frank Turek. He's the best Christian apologist debator out there that I've seen, even better than William Lane Craig, and is willing to answer any question. He acts like his Christian paradigm is perfect and can account for all things. I plan to make some videos to challenge him and also a webpage too.

Also, the Christian paradigm is not perfect and does not explain all data. For example, it doesn't account for the following phenomena that doesn't fit into its narrow worldview:

- Reincarnation
- Astrology
- NDE's

There is strong compelling evidence for these things, which I can go into for hours. But they don't fit into the paradigm of Christian fundamentalism. So what do Christians do? Claim they are all the work of the devil? We know how imbecilic and cheap and immature that is, to deny what you don't like by claiming it's of the the devil. Only a very small mind would do that. Unfortunately, Adama still does that sort of thing. He's never grown or evolved past it. Not everything that you disagree with is of the devil. That's friggin stupid! Claiming something is of Satan does NOT erase it or invalidate it. You still gotta account for it. The devil can't do everything.
There are many things about the human mind which we do not know. Nobody can explain NDEs.

However, just as you don't believe the Bible, I don't believe the words out of the mouths of most people. I have seen Youtube videos, for example, where some woman claims that women in her religion that she knows, including herself, have had babies with aliens.

Do I also need to explain this? Not every silly question needs to be answered, because it leads down roads of nonsense and distraction.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
There are many compelling cases of reincarnation. Anyone who has researched it and is a truth seeker knows this. Like the decades long work of Dr. Ian Stevenson for example. And many compelling cases that both Atheists and Christians can't explain, like the documented case of Jenny Cockwell in her book "Across Time and Death" where a mother searched for her past life children and eventually found them all. Or the boy who remembered his life as a WW2 pilot and all his memory details checked out. That story went viral and was even on ABC News, which you can see on YouTube. No one can explain those away. Satan cannot explain these cases either.
The interesting thing to me is, some people love stories like this, but if you tell them that Christ rose from the dead, they will refuse to believe that. At least one story has an eternal benefit, while the other leads to nowhere.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
Astrology cannot be explained by Satan either. How did Satan make my personality fit my sun sign, moon sign and rising sign? Astrology produces patterns above chance. Study the work of Michel Gauquelin (French statistician) for proof. He flip flopped on the issue many times before concluding that astrology was real after all. I've seen astrology patterns in my life too. For example most of my closest male friends have been Cancers. And most of my ex girlfriends have been Aries. That's NOT a 1 out of 12 chance. Sorry stupid atheists and debunkers. And again, Satan cannot account for that. You can't use Satan to refuse to face data that doesn't fit into your beliefs. That's moronic and stupid and false.
Astrology can't save you.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
If Adama's fundamentalist theology is absolutely true, then all non-Christians go to hell, no matter how good they are. But then how come when you research NDE's, you find that most of the experiencers who are not Christians experience God and Heaven during their NDE? Shouldn't all non-Christians only see hell during their NDE? How can they be seeing heaven or God or Jesus most of the time? For example, Dannion Brinkley, a popular NDEer, was a bad guy who did bad things most of his life. Yet during his NDE he saw God and peace and light and love, and it changed him into a kinder loving person. If he wasn't a good Christian, then he should have only seen hell. So you see, again, these NDE accounts that are well documented do not fit Christian fundamentalism.
So you find these stories give you more comfort than the idea that eternal life is real? Or is the whole point just to say that eternal death is not so real?
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
So you see, it makes the most sense to take the Bible metaphorically, NOT literally. I gave many GOOD reasons above. Taking the Bible literally gives you too many problems. WAYYYYYY too many problems, which are unresolvable. And it does not account for many phenomena or data such as the above.
It's only a problem if you don't want to believe it's true or if they don't want to believe eternal death is true.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
Also, the fundamentalist evangelical form of Christianity that Adama believes in is a MODERN American version. It's not the Christianity that Europeans believed in in the last 2000 years. You know the greatest geniuses and scientists who were Christian were not fundamentalists. For example, Isaac Newton, Galileo, Copernicus, DaVinci, etc. and even the Protestant Reformers like Martin Luther, were not fundamentalists like CS Lewis or Josh McDowell or Lee Strobel or Adama. They did not believe in stuff like:
Most of the Europeans throughout history were not Christians. They were Catholic. Two completely different things, as different as Islam is from Catholicism. Of course it's not the same thing. Of course they tell a different story.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
- Every word of the Bible is inerrant and infallible and perfect.
- All non-Christians go to hell forever even if they were good people.
- Salvation is by faith and grace only, not by works or good behavior. Your behavior doesn't matter.
- Once saved, always saved. You can't lose your salvation.
I always wonder why people fight so hard for salvation to be according to the commandments. If salvation came by keeping the commandments then nobody could enter into heaven. The standard is too high, which is why Christ kept the commandments and overcame them. All we have to do is believe in them. Yet people want to believe that we must keep the commandments to enter heaven? It is not possible. Why do people want to make things harder than they need to be? As in impossible without any chance of eternal life by being a good person.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
No way jose. Those are ridiculous and not supported by the Bible. I'll prove it to you later. But Adama is not an objective truth seeker. He NEVER follows the evidence and refuses to change his belief even when he should or is proven wrong. He believes he has found the truth and refuses to change his fixed beliefs even if they are in error, and even if the Bible doesn't support them.

Christians have always believed that you had to obey God's commandments and do good works and do the will of God to get to heaven too. There are MANY Bible verses that say this, yet modern evangelists ignore them all! And of course if you turn from God, you can lose your salvation if you do too much evil. And of course good people can go to heaven if they live morally righteous lives, such as good Buddhists for example, especially if they never heard of Jesus and didn't get a chance to accept him. God is not that unfair.
Of course a person must keep the commandments. However, keeping the commandments does NOT save the person. It is pleasing to God, but it does not save the person. Besides that, it's impossible for anyone to keep all the commandments. Some people must believe that they are as perfect as Christ to believe they can get to heaven by keeping the commandments, because it is impossible. If a person has ever told one lie, disobeyed their parents once, ever fornicated, or been drunk, well if salvation is by the commandments, then they are definitely not going to heaven by their own standard.
Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
The greatest minds in history who were Christians and God fearing believed all that. They didn't believe in the modern American version of fundamentalism or evangelical Christianity. That's a MODERN invention and is ridiculous and makes no sense and isn't even supported by the Bible either.

Also, Christians like to pounce on the Catholic Church for not following the Bible and for its pagan practices. However:

Did you know the Catholics have their apologists too? I saw many of them on YouTube and in books on Amazon.com. They have their defenses too. They are not defenseless. And they have a lot of Bible verses to support Catholic theology and the papacy too. Go on YouTube and look. So you see, even Catholics can use the Bible to justify their church and beliefs. Anyone can pick and choose parts of the Bible to support their beliefs. Adama can too, however I can find many verses that contradict his beliefs. We can play this game forever. But it's a waste of time. Better not to take it literally.

Here's another interesting thing to consider for Protestants: Remember the Fatima miracle in Portugal in 1917? Well on that day in October, 1917, about 70,000 people in Portugal saw a miracle. They saw the Sun move and zig zag and change colors and eventually got bigger as though it were falling down. Then afterward, the wet ground which had gotten wet from the rain, became completely DRY! So even if this was just a mass hallucination (which is implausible) that does NOT explain how the wet ground suddenly became DRY! It was a true miracle and well documented. 70,000 people witnessed it! Atheists cannot explain it! Nor can Protestants. There are movies about it too, such as "The 13th Day" and "The Miracle of Our Lady Fatima (1952)".

Furthermore, Fatima told the three girls a number of things that came true, such as that there would be a second world war after the first, that an evil revolution in Russia would begin, etc. She also gave them three prophecies too. The third one is hidden and known only to the Pope.

So if the Roman Catholic church is Satanic or not of God or not Biblical, like Protestant Christians claim, how can that be? How can Satan do all that? How can Satan make the Sun move and zig zag and chance colors, and dry the ground? Only God can do that.

Furthermore, you've all heard of all the documented healing miracles at Lourdes pool in France. It's a Catholic place for Catholics to get healed. Many have been healed there of many ailments. The Catholic church has documented cases of bones that healed and mended there. Of course, there are limits to the miracles, for example, people cannot regrow limbs there. But they get healed in many other ways that are well documented.

So if Catholicism is Satanic or false or non-Biblical, how can that be?

Because God or the divine works through many religions? Sure. Why not?

I gave 6 logical reasons why Jesus is not the only way to God in another thread, which has never been debunked, and which Adama is too scared to read, because his beliefs are FIXED and cannot be changed, because he doesn't want to change them and thus cannot, even when proven wrong. That's the problem with fundamentalism, it closes your mind and fixes your beliefs so they can never be changed or updated, even when they should be.

If you're a truth seeker, you should read great works or listen to lectures and interviews by great teachers such as Joseph Campbell, the world's greatest mythologist, or Carl Jung, one of the greatest psychologists. They also see the Bible as myth and allegory too.

Joseph Campbell said, "A myth is something that never was, but always is." So even if there was no historical Jesus or Buddha, still they represent a timeless eternal myth. Jesus is a symbol of our soul's need to die to its ego consciousness so it can be reborn into higher states of consciousness. So a myth contains a timeless truth, whereas a historical event just happens once.

Read the book "The Pagan Christ" by Tom Harpur. He explains this very well and draws on the wisdom of Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung, as well as Gerald Massey and Alvin Kuhn, who were way ahead of their time.

It's the same with Star Wars. Even if Star Wars is not a historical event, it still contains timeless truths such as the inner battle between good and evil, and the struggle between empires and freedom loving rebels, etc. In Empire Strikes Back, Luke Skywalker goes into this cave on Dagobah and knocks of an illusion of Vader's head. Then inside the head he sees his own face. This symbolizes his own inner struggle with evil. So you see, the motif is deep and timeless. You could say the same with the Bible stories.

In fact, Hollywood makes lots of movies that repeat the dying rising savior Christ motif, which is odd since Hollywood is run by Jews who supposedly hate Jesus. For example, in the movie Beastmaster with Marc Singer, when the protagonist is born, the king hears that the child will usurp him, so he has all the firstborn children of his kingdom killed, just like Herod the Great did in the Gospel stories. And at the end, a child dies but then is resurrected. Even back in 1959, there was an Audrey Hepburn movie where after she died in a burning tree, she rose again at the end, and only her lover in the forest saw her. And in the third Batman movie, Dark Knight Rises, after Batman sacrifices himself at the end in an explosion, the butler played by Michael Caine sees Batman again at a cafe with Catwoman. This again symbolizes the motif of loved ones seeing their protagonist rising again from the dead, but only in their own minds.

Movies also allude to Jesus in other ways too. In the 1972 Clint Eastwood movie "Play Misty For Me" when the psycho woman gets knocked off the cliff at the end, you can see her lying on the beach with her arms stretched out like Jesus on the cross. I've noticed that many movies show the dead or dying like Jesus on the cross. The cross motif is flashed many times if you pay attention. I don't know why Hollywood does this in countless films, but it does. Perhaps it's a motif of some sort. Even Star Wars has a lot of Jesus and Christian motifs if you look. Like Annakin having a virgin birth, etc.

Moreover, Christians still haven't explained why Philo of Alexandria, who documented the history of the Jews from 0 to 50 AD, never mentioned Jesus. Also repeated numbers such as 40 days or 40 years, etc. are not part of history, they are more part of fictional literature to symbolize something.

Think about this. Consider all the above. Meditate and ponder them. Look at the big picture. Then you will see that it only makes sense to take the Bible symbolically and metaphorically, not literally.

If you want to find truth, you have to study all the religions and philosophies and ancient textbooks, especially the esoteric ones that were for the inner circles of initiates only. Not only the exoteric ones (organized religions) which were meant for the masses only. That's what Theosophy is about - synthesizing all religions and learning from all of them, not just one. Theosophy was founded by Madame Helena Blavatsky, who was the first person in history to synthesize science, religion and philosophy into one, and the greatest female philosopher. Theosophy, Blavatsky says, is like the white color that contains all the colors of the rainbow, whereas each major religion is only one color of the rainbow. Yet the fundamentalist sects claim that the other colors don't exist and condemn even tints of its own color. Also, Christian Gnosticism is worth studying too, as well as Hinduism.

Truth doesn't come in a package like fast food, like Adama claims. It's a long term process of constantly searching and growing and evolving.
It sounds to me like the Bible verse: Ever learning and never able to come to the Knowledge of the Truth.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by MrMan » June 8th, 2018, 4:58 am

Winston wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:41 am
Of course, the Resurrection story as well as other stories in the Bible, such as the Fall in the Garden of Eden, make no sense. If Jesus really rose from the dead historically, word would have gotten around very fast. Pontius Pilate would have had his guards bring Jesus in for questioning. And Jesus would return periodically to have pep rallies with his Christian followers, or at least return to check in on them. He wouldn't just vanish for good. Also, history does not follow symbolic numbers repeatedly like 40 days. Only fictional stories do that.
You assume here that Jesus would do things the way you would, and that God does things the way you do. Some things can last exactly 40 days if God has a reason for that.

Jesus was raised in power, not in a mortal body like ours. Why would he appear to Pilate? He appeared to Who He wanted to for God's purposes.

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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston » June 8th, 2018, 11:16 am

Adama wrote:
June 4th, 2018, 2:13 am
You cannot lose your salvation:

John 6:37 KJV
[37] All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28-29 KJV
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Yeah but that's assuming that you don't turn away from God. If you turn away from God then those verses don't apply. Gabriel presented all this in his Salvation Equation seminar. He addressed those three verses above too. Apparently, you don't know your Bible as well as Gabriel does. It seems you aren't aware that Jesus and Paul did say that you will lose your salvation if you turn from God, even if you were a truly saved believer before. Many verses say so. I don't have the time to post them for you. Watch the seminar and you will see them. I'm sure I can Google them too if you want and then post them here. But the thing is, you don't seem to know your Bible as well as you think. You only accept the verses you like, the rest you ignore or re-interpret. But don't all Christians do that? lol

One time I asked a pastor why he allowed women to speak in church when Paul said that wasn't allowed in 1 Corinthians. He got mad at me and said that that verse only applied to the churches in Paul's day, not now. Otherwise we would have to take every verse literally too, and we can't. So we have to be consistent and reasonable. He was pissed though that I even dared to challenge him. lol. No one else did except me.

This just goes to show that Christians will say "that verse only applied to ancient times, not today" whenever they don't like what a verse says. lol. This applies to the "sell everything you have and be poor and homeless nomads and apostles" verses too, which are in the Gospels and in the book of Acts too. No Christian wants to do that, so they re-interpret it to mean something else. lol
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston » June 8th, 2018, 11:21 am

Adama wrote:
June 4th, 2018, 2:15 am
To be saved, all a person has to do is believe in Jesus (that He is the Son of God):

John 6:47 KJV
[47] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Acts 16:30-31 KJV
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? [31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 5:13 KJV
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Gabriel says "believeth" is a mistranslation. The actual Greek text says "obey" not "believe". So if you insert "obey" into those verses above, that means you have to obey the commandments of God and Jesus too. Not just believe. Remember the Bible says that even the devil and his demons believe that Jesus is the Son of God, yet they don't get saved from it. You can believe anything, but that doesn't make you a true follower. You are mistranslating those verses. Gabriel says that is demonic and a false Satanic teaching. Please watch his Salvation Seminar that I posted for you. It explains it all.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston » June 8th, 2018, 2:25 pm

Here is something most people don't know. The Bible references 22 books that are not in its canon. So if the Bible is "perfect and infallible" as fundamentalists and evangelists claim, then how can that be so? How can a perfect book be missing 22 books? If "God would preserve his word" as they claim, then how would he allow 22 books in it to go missing? This is a big thorn in their side and cannot be explained by fundamentalist logic. lol. Here is a list of the 22 missing books referenced in the Bible at the links below. Even Wikipedia references them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-canon ... _the_Bible

http://www.answering-christianity.com/lost_books.htm

http://yuriystasyuk.com/22-lost-books-t ... the-bible/
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Adama » June 8th, 2018, 4:29 pm

Winston wrote:
June 8th, 2018, 11:16 am
Adama wrote:
June 4th, 2018, 2:13 am
You cannot lose your salvation:

John 6:37 KJV
[37] All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28-29 KJV
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Yeah but that's assuming that you don't turn away from God. If you turn away from God then those verses don't apply.
No. It is just that it isn't able to sink in for you. He's saying there's nothing a person can do for Him to cast them away. Nothing, after they are saved. If they sin beyond where they should, He has a rod and a staff: the rod to punish, the staff to restrict.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Adama » June 8th, 2018, 4:31 pm

Winston wrote:
June 8th, 2018, 11:21 am
Adama wrote:
June 4th, 2018, 2:15 am
To be saved, all a person has to do is believe in Jesus (that He is the Son of God):

John 6:47 KJV
[47] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Acts 16:30-31 KJV
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? [31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 5:13 KJV
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Gabriel says "believeth" is a mistranslation. The actual Greek text says "obey" not "believe". So if you insert "obey" into those verses above, that means you have to obey the commandments of God and Jesus too. Not just believe. Remember the Bible says that even the devil and his demons believe that Jesus is the Son of God, yet they don't get saved from it. You can believe anything, but that doesn't make you a true follower. You are mistranslating those verses. Gabriel says that is demonic and a false Satanic teaching. Please watch his Salvation Seminar that I posted for you. It explains it all.
Apparently some people don't want to believe. That's not my problem.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston » June 8th, 2018, 4:41 pm

Adama wrote:
June 8th, 2018, 4:31 pm
Winston wrote:
June 8th, 2018, 11:21 am
Adama wrote:
June 4th, 2018, 2:15 am
To be saved, all a person has to do is believe in Jesus (that He is the Son of God):

John 6:47 KJV
[47] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Acts 16:30-31 KJV
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? [31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 5:13 KJV
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Gabriel says "believeth" is a mistranslation. The actual Greek text says "obey" not "believe". So if you insert "obey" into those verses above, that means you have to obey the commandments of God and Jesus too. Not just believe. Remember the Bible says that even the devil and his demons believe that Jesus is the Son of God, yet they don't get saved from it. You can believe anything, but that doesn't make you a true follower. You are mistranslating those verses. Gabriel says that is demonic and a false Satanic teaching. Please watch his Salvation Seminar that I posted for you. It explains it all.
Apparently some people don't want to believe. That's not my problem.
Well you don't know Greek so how would you know? Some verses in the KJV are mistranslated from the original Greek text. You forget that. If you studied Greek, you could look up the original source texts to see what they really say. But you are more interested in proving your FIXED beliefs than in seeking out the truth.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston » June 8th, 2018, 4:44 pm

Adama wrote:
June 8th, 2018, 4:29 pm
Winston wrote:
June 8th, 2018, 11:16 am
Adama wrote:
June 4th, 2018, 2:13 am
You cannot lose your salvation:

John 6:37 KJV
[37] All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28-29 KJV
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Yeah but that's assuming that you don't turn away from God. If you turn away from God then those verses don't apply.
No. It is just that it isn't able to sink in for you. He's saying there's nothing a person can do for Him to cast them away. Nothing, after they are saved. If they sin beyond where they should, He has a rod and a staff: the rod to punish, the staff to restrict.
Well that's YOUR interpretation, but it's not in harmony with the other 40 verses I gave you that say otherwise. You are not being logical here. You only care about your fixed beliefs. It doesn't say that you are saved no matter what you do. That is how YOU interpreted it.

Notice in the first verse above that Jesus is saying that if you COME to him, he won't reject you. It doesn't say about people who turn away from him. Do you see the obvious difference?

The eternal life doesn't begin until the afterlife, until after your body dies. It doesn't mean you have it now and even if it did, you could lose it if you turned away. That's what many Bible verses say. Just because you don't like that doesn't change that those verses are there.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Adama » June 8th, 2018, 4:50 pm

Of course the verses include turning away. That's why He says in no wise cast out. That means no matter what. A person is sealed. We are talking about God here. He is not playing games. He wants people in eternity to rejoice in Him and to have the fullness of life. He isn't going to accept them all the way in and then kick them out. That would defeat the whole purpose of getting them saved.

Also, the verses you posted which you believe are about salvation are not. A salvation verse says "believe in Christ and you're saved." A salvation verse is a promise of eternal life.
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