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For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

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Re: For Christians: Do you read the King James Bible?

Postby gnosis » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:08 am

Adama wrote:
gnosis wrote:
Adama wrote:Don't bother with respected Bible scholars. Most of them are fools. They openly admit they don't believe the Bible. So what most Bible scholars think is irrelevant. They may be experts of some type, but they know the Word but don't believe it. They're fools.


Totally agree with you. People who can read ancient Greek manuscripts are fools. Of course, if you had actually visited the link, you would realize that Daniel Wallace is a practicing Christian.

Do you realize you come across as a caricature of an isolated American bible-thumping fundamentalist? You can't read Greek, nor have you ever bothered to study it, but you magically "know" that the KJV is the most accurate English translation. :roll:


All you have to do is compare it to the awful fake versions of the Bible.


But you can't read Greek. So you have no way of knowing what the "real" New Testament is like. You are just naively comparing a few English translations with each other. You are not reading the source manuscripts. You don't even know anything about the different source manuscripts or anything about bible scholarship.

You are American, correct? An American Evangelical or something? Because I have only ever heard American Fundamentalist Christians say things like this. You would never hear a European Christian say something like this.
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Re: For Christians: Do you read the King James Bible?

Postby Adama » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:54 am

gnosis wrote:
Adama wrote:
gnosis wrote:
Adama wrote:Don't bother with respected Bible scholars. Most of them are fools. They openly admit they don't believe the Bible. So what most Bible scholars think is irrelevant. They may be experts of some type, but they know the Word but don't believe it. They're fools.


Totally agree with you. People who can read ancient Greek manuscripts are fools. Of course, if you had actually visited the link, you would realize that Daniel Wallace is a practicing Christian.

Do you realize you come across as a caricature of an isolated American bible-thumping fundamentalist? You can't read Greek, nor have you ever bothered to study it, but you magically "know" that the KJV is the most accurate English translation. :roll:


All you have to do is compare it to the awful fake versions of the Bible.


But you can't read Greek. So you have no way of knowing what the "real" New Testament is like. You are just naively comparing a few English translations with each other. You are not reading the source manuscripts. You don't even know anything about the different source manuscripts or anything about bible scholarship.

You are American, correct? An American Evangelical or something? Because I have only ever heard American Fundamentalist Christians say things like this. You would never hear a European Christian say something like this.


That's the kind of argument that will prevent many Christians from entering into heaven. They have too much doubt in God's Word, saying that it is mistranslated or inaccurate. How can they get saved if they don't believe in God's Word? You doubt the Word, then you will doubt all the salvation verses, which means you won't enter into heaven.

Also, many of those Bible scholars aren't Christian at all, but just because a person says they are Christian, even believing they are Christian, it doesn't mean they are saved. I've met many Christians who believe in damnable heresy. That is they believe in things which prevent them from accepting the gift of God. Saying you are a Christian doesn't mean that you are a Christian by God's standards. By Christian, I mean a saved person who has the gift of the Holy Ghost and eternal life.

Basically many of these Bible scholars want you to believe that the Word can't get you saved. The Word does get people saved.

The only problem with the KJV is that it uses words which are no longer commonly used, and the meanings of some of the words have changed over time. Also the KJV is closer to German than to contemporary English which puts off some people who can't be bothered to learn that Thee and Thou You singular.

These scholars come out with new Bible verses to make it harder for people to go to heaven. First the mere existence of many different versions causes doubt, but also many of them change the salvation verses into damnable heresy which would prevent people from getting saved.
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Re: For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

Postby gnosis » Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:04 am

Adama,

You do understand that the New Testament was not originally written in English, yes?

There is no one way to translate anything. Because there is no one-to-one correspondence between any two languages. The fact that there are different translations says nothing about the veracity of the New Testament.

The KJV is not even the oldest English translation.
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Re: For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

Postby Adama » Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:04 am

Why would a person using Luther's Bible have anything to say about the KJV? You never heard a European Christian say that? Well that isn't a surprise. I won't ask how many European Christians you've talked to in this life, specifically about Bible versions. But assuming you had, that is even irrelevant, because it doesn't pertain to most of them.

Also the Anglican Church, just like most all of the other Protestant churches, are direct descendants from the Catholic church. They also teach damnable heresy, such as salvation by works, such as sacraments, which is not putting all our faith in Jesus for salvation. Or they teach repentance, before or after salvation or both, as a requirement for salvation, which is also a work and therefore damnable heresy, as Jesus does all the work to get us to heaven through our faith.

Salvation is by faith alone without works and once eternal life is granted, God promised He would not take it away.

Many of those false Churches believe that salvation can be lost when it cannot. God has the power of Salvation, not man, and God said He would never cast us out and never allow anyone to pluck us away from Him.

The Catholic church, the Anglican Church and many of the Lutherans believe in damnable heresy. I would not ask them anything about any Bible version, much less one that isn't written in their language.

By the way, I am a fundamentalist, which you must feel is a horrible thing. As a Fundamentalist, I believe the Bible. I don't believe Bible Scholars. What kind of Christian are you?
Last edited by Adama on Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

Postby gnosis » Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:07 am

Salvation is not by faith. Salvation is also not by works. Neither faith nor works will save you.
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Re: For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

Postby Adama » Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:10 am

gnosis wrote:Salvation is not by faith. Salvation is also not by works. Neither faith nor works will save you.


That's why you believe Bible scholars then. You don't believe the Bible. Salvation is clearly by faith alone.

Having a name like Gnosis, it is no surprise to me that you also teach damnable heresy.
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Re: For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

Postby Ghost » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:36 am

gnosis wrote:Adama,

You do understand that the New Testament was not originally written in English, yes?

There is no one way to translate anything. Because there is no one-to-one correspondence between any two languages. The fact that there are different translations says nothing about the veracity of the New Testament.

The KJV is not even the oldest English translation.


He knows it - logically - but with his way of doing things, he decides what is true before looking at the facts. He does the same thing with his flat earth bullshit - he decided it was true then found some kooks on YouTube that also believed the earth was flat. Actual evidence and science never entered into it for him. And with the Bible, he'll do the same thing until his last breath. Trying to communicate is like trying to talk to a brick wall, but at least the brick wall won't say stupid things. Fundies are so high on their own ignorance that you wonder how they tie their shoelaces in the morning - this is the worst of modern so-called Christianity. In this false religion, ignorance is a virtue and everyone who disagrees is a heretic, no matter what the evidence says. I fall into it myself, but it's best not to even try with Adama. It's casting your pearls before swine.

Anyway, as to the lack of perfectly matched one-to-one meanings between languages, I know even fairly closely related languages like English and Spanish can have lots of ways to translate the same things, so I'm sure it's so much bigger of an issue with distantly related languages and dead languages.

Something else I'll add that's important: we can't pretend that earthly politics never entered into things. The KJV was commissioned by King James specifically to play up the validity of earthly kings and consolidate his power. Earlier than that, when the Biblical canon was being decided, earthly powers decided which books should be canon and which ones should not be included. So what we've ended up with is a set of books decided on by politicians. It would be like our modern politicians commissioning their own translations or holding a council on redetermining the Biblical canon. Then cue the useful idiots like Adama showing up...
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Re: For Christians: Do you read the King James Bible?

Postby Winston » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:52 am

gnosis wrote:
Adama wrote:
gnosis wrote:
Adama wrote:Don't bother with respected Bible scholars. Most of them are fools. They openly admit they don't believe the Bible. So what most Bible scholars think is irrelevant. They may be experts of some type, but they know the Word but don't believe it. They're fools.


Totally agree with you. People who can read ancient Greek manuscripts are fools. Of course, if you had actually visited the link, you would realize that Daniel Wallace is a practicing Christian.

Do you realize you come across as a caricature of an isolated American bible-thumping fundamentalist? You can't read Greek, nor have you ever bothered to study it, but you magically "know" that the KJV is the most accurate English translation. :roll:


All you have to do is compare it to the awful fake versions of the Bible.


But you can't read Greek. So you have no way of knowing what the "real" New Testament is like. You are just naively comparing a few English translations with each other. You are not reading the source manuscripts. You don't even know anything about the different source manuscripts or anything about bible scholarship.

You are American, correct? An American Evangelical or something? Because I have only ever heard American Fundamentalist Christians say things like this. You would never hear a European Christian say something like this.


Thats right. Many European Christians even told me that they never heard of the doctrine before that unbelievers go to hell. Thats mostly preached in American churches. Probably because Americans love to use fear to convince people and control people. But Europeans have evolved beyond such fearmongering.
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Re: For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

Postby The_Adventurer » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:07 am

There is no hell. From the Hebrew to Syriac to the Greek, many different words, whether Hades, Gehenna, The Labyrinth, blah blah blah, all get translated into ONE word, Hell, in the English version. All modern concepts of Hell, and punishment and fire come from Milton and Dante, and not from the Bible.

The closest thing in the Bible is a parable Jesus tells, where the guy is in the lake of fire and asks Abraham to go and tell his family not to end up there. It's a parable. Nowhere is it even hinted at that such a place exists.

All other indicators in the Bible are that when you die, you're dead, until the resurrection and the judgement.
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Re: For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

Postby Adama » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:24 am

The_Adventurer wrote:There is no hell. From the Hebrew to Syriac to the Greek, many different words, whether Hades, Gehenna, The Labyrinth, blah blah blah, all get translated into ONE word, Hell, in the English version. All modern concepts of Hell, and punishment and fire come from Milton and Dante, and not from the Bible.

The closest thing in the Bible is a parable Jesus tells, where the guy is in the lake of fire and asks Abraham to go and tell his family not to end up there. It's a parable. Nowhere is it even hinted at that such a place exists.

All other indicators in the Bible are that when you die, you're dead, until the resurrection and the judgement.



That is not a parable. That is a real story. That's why the name Lazarus was used. He was a real man, not a fictional one invented for illustrative purposes. If a man's name had not been used, then I would agree that it is a parable. When God says Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom, He wasn't lying just to tell a parable. He wasn't lying. He was telling the truth.

There are two hells. Or there will be. The current hell is beneath our feet. It is in the heart of the earth. You can see this stuff called Lava that keeps coming to the earth's surface, proving that beneath our feet the foundations of the mountains are on fire, just as the Bible says.

After The Second Coming and Christ's One Thousand Year Reign on Earth, He was will destroy this Earth and make a brand new one. He will also transport the current hell, with all the unbelievers, to hell's permanent location in Outer Darkness, also known as The Lake of Fire.
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Re: For Christians: Do you read the King James Bible?

Postby Adama » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:27 am

Winston wrote:
gnosis wrote:
Adama wrote:
gnosis wrote:
Adama wrote:Don't bother with respected Bible scholars. Most of them are fools. They openly admit they don't believe the Bible. So what most Bible scholars think is irrelevant. They may be experts of some type, but they know the Word but don't believe it. They're fools.


Totally agree with you. People who can read ancient Greek manuscripts are fools. Of course, if you had actually visited the link, you would realize that Daniel Wallace is a practicing Christian.

Do you realize you come across as a caricature of an isolated American bible-thumping fundamentalist? You can't read Greek, nor have you ever bothered to study it, but you magically "know" that the KJV is the most accurate English translation. :roll:


All you have to do is compare it to the awful fake versions of the Bible.


But you can't read Greek. So you have no way of knowing what the "real" New Testament is like. You are just naively comparing a few English translations with each other. You are not reading the source manuscripts. You don't even know anything about the different source manuscripts or anything about bible scholarship.

You are American, correct? An American Evangelical or something? Because I have only ever heard American Fundamentalist Christians say things like this. You would never hear a European Christian say something like this.


Thats right. Many European Christians even told me that they never heard of the doctrine before that unbelievers go to hell. Thats mostly preached in American churches. Probably because Americans love to use fear to convince people and control people. But Europeans have evolved beyond such fearmongering.


Gnosticism is a demonic doctrine from Satan. You should know that.

I have come to the conclusion that many men here have been sent a strong delusion and they are incapable of believing in Christ due to rejecting the gospel or their filthy activity.

Most Europeans aren't Christian at all, but Catholic idolators. You can even ask a Catholic if they are Christian and many times they will deny being Christian and say, "I am Catholic." Their souls know it is different from Christianity. Catholicism is paganism given a mask of Christianity. But they do the same things heathens in India would do: worship statues and false gods, praying to false gods, and like the Buddhists, they forbid their priests to marry and force them to live in monasteries.

But you can believe what you want. Oh well.
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Re: For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

Postby Adama » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:32 am

Ghost wrote:
gnosis wrote:Adama,

You do understand that the New Testament was not originally written in English, yes?

There is no one way to translate anything. Because there is no one-to-one correspondence between any two languages. The fact that there are different translations says nothing about the veracity of the New Testament.

The KJV is not even the oldest English translation.


He knows it - logically - but with his way of doing things, he decides what is true before looking at the facts. He does the same thing with his flat earth bullshit - he decided it was true then found some kooks on YouTube that also believed the earth was flat. Actual evidence and science never entered into it for him. And with the Bible, he'll do the same thing until his last breath. Trying to communicate is like trying to talk to a brick wall, but at least the brick wall won't say stupid things. Fundies are so high on their own ignorance that you wonder how they tie their shoelaces in the morning - this is the worst of modern so-called Christianity. In this false religion, ignorance is a virtue and everyone who disagrees is a heretic, no matter what the evidence says. I fall into it myself, but it's best not to even try with Adama. It's casting your pearls before swine.
It would be like our modern politicians commissioning their own translations or holding a council on redetermining the Biblical canon. Then cue the useful idiots like Adama showing up...


Fundamentalism is false Christianity. haha

You can call me an idiot all you want to, but get this, you are agreeing with a man who is saying there is NO route to heaven. He denies both works and faith. There is no way to get to heaven in his book. It is neither earned nor is it a free gift.

Also, you were never a Fundie because you were never a believer, and you'll probably never be one. Heaven is for believers only.
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Re: For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

Postby Adama » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:42 am

The_Adventurer wrote:There is no hell. From the Hebrew to Syriac to the Greek, many different words, whether Hades, Gehenna, The Labyrinth, blah blah blah, all get translated into ONE word, Hell, in the English version. All modern concepts of Hell, and punishment and fire come from Milton and Dante, and not from the Bible.

The closest thing in the Bible is a parable Jesus tells, where the guy is in the lake of fire and asks Abraham to go and tell his family not to end up there. It's a parable. Nowhere is it even hinted at that such a place exists.

All other indicators in the Bible are that when you die, you're dead, until the resurrection and the judgement.


Deuteronomy 32
22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.

Isaiah 5
14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:
16 But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.

Isaiah 66
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 1
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 20
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


That's the problem. You guys are so busy trying so hard not to believe. You're confounded by such things as Greek and Hebrew, which I am 100% certain that none of you are fluent in either one of these unless you were born into it. Laughable how smart you would claim you are, yet you don't even have the basic knowledge you even claim a person would need to discern the truth. There is a Bible in English called the KJV. It doesn't require one to spend their lives learning Greek or Hebrew or Latin. If God can't get us saved in our own native languages then many would simply be damned to hell.

Surely God was speaking in parables when He says unbelievers will burn for eternity. I'd almost feel sorry for you men who call God a liar, but I don't one bit.
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Re: For Christians: Do you read the King James Bible?

Postby Adama » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:56 am

Winston wrote:Thats right. Many European Christians even told me that they never heard of the doctrine before that unbelievers go to hell. Thats mostly preached in American churches. Probably because Americans love to use fear to convince people and control people. But Europeans have evolved beyond such fearmongering.



John 3:18King James Version (KJV)

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How do you read this? This says that unbelievers, that is those people who don't believe, are condemned to hell ALREADY for their unbelief. Get that. Oh no, it doesn't really say that, when it says it there in PERFECT ENGLISH. But oh, we need to go to the Greek to understand what God really meant. That's cause you're not interested in what God wants or what He said. You just want to conflate and obfuscate the matter.

They never heard of it cause they aren't Christians. Christians would know the proper route to heaven is through belief in Jesus. It says it right there in the Bible. These are people who took Christ's name but don't believe in Him. They are not Christians. They just labeled themselves Christians. They aren't saved. They don't believe, obviously.
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Re: For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

Postby The_Adventurer » Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:19 pm

Adama wrote:That's the problem. You guys are so busy trying so hard not to believe. You're confounded by such things as Greek and Hebrew, which I am 100% certain that none of you are fluent in either one of these unless you were born into it. Laughable how smart you would claim you are, yet you don't even have the basic knowledge you even claim a person would need to discern the truth. There is a Bible in English called the KJV. It doesn't require one to spend their lives learning Greek or Hebrew or Latin. If God can't get us saved in our own native languages then many would simply be damned to hell.


The minister in my mother's church really did spend the bulk of his life learning Greek and Hebrew, because he wants to deepest possible understanding of the scriptures. According to you, though, he wasted all his life because he wasn't born into it.

There's also a Bible called the NIV in English. Then there's the NKJV, ESV, CEB, and many others. How is some random person to know that the KJV is the correct one? How do you know? I've done the comparisons. You think Greek and Hebrew is waste of time, so how do you know?

Adama wrote:Surely God was speaking in parables when He says unbelievers will burn for eternity. I'd almost feel sorry for you men who call God a liar, but I don't one bit.


Show me where exactly God says unbelievers will burn for eternity.
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