Atheists & Agnostics more knowledgeable about Religion than Believers are

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momopi
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Atheists & Agnostics more knowledgeable about Religion than Believers are

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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 5238.story

latimes.com
Atheists, agnostics most knowledgeable about religion, survey says
Report says nonbelievers know more, on average, about religion than most faithful. Jews and Mormons also score high on the U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey.
By Mitchell Landsberg, Los Angeles Times

September 28, 2010

If you want to know about God, you might want to talk to an atheist.

Heresy? Perhaps. But a survey that measured Americans' knowledge of religion found that atheists and agnostics knew more, on average, than followers of most major faiths. In fact, the gaps in knowledge among some of the faithful may give new meaning to the term "blind faith."

A majority of Protestants, for instance, couldn't identify Martin Luther as the driving force behind the Protestant Reformation, according to the survey, released Tuesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. Four in 10 Catholics misunderstood the meaning of their church's central ritual, incorrectly saying that the bread and wine used in Holy Communion are intended to merely symbolize the body and blood of Christ, not actually become them.

Atheists and agnostics — those who believe there is no God or who aren't sure — were more likely to answer the survey's questions correctly. Jews and Mormons ranked just below them in the survey's measurement of religious knowledge — so close as to be statistically tied.

So why would an atheist know more about religion than a Christian?

American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.

"These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it."

Atheists and agnostics also tend to be relatively well educated, and the survey found, not surprisingly, that the most knowledgeable people were also the best educated. However, it said that atheists and agnostics also outperformed believers who had a similar level of education.

The groups at the top of the U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey were followed, in order, by white evangelical Protestants, white Catholics, white mainline Protestants, people who were unaffiliated with any faith (but not atheist or agnostic), black Protestants and Latino Catholics.

Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists were included in the survey, but their numbers were too small to be broken out as statistically significant groups.

Stephen Prothero, a professor of religion at Boston University and author of "Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know — And Doesn't," served as an advisor on the survey. "I think in general the survey confirms what I argued in the book, which is that we know almost nothing about our own religions and even less about the religions of other people," he said.

He said he found it significant that Mormons, who are not considered Christians by many fundamentalists, showed greater knowledge of the Bible than evangelical Christians.

The Rev. Adam Hamilton, a Methodist minister from Leawood, Kan., and the author of "When Christians Get it Wrong," said the survey's results may reflect a reluctance by many people to dig deeply into their own beliefs and especially into those of others.

"I think that what happens for many Christians is, they accept their particular faith, they accept it to be true and they stop examining it. Consequently, because it's already accepted to be true, they don't examine other people's faiths. … That, I think, is not healthy for a person of any faith," he said.

The Pew survey was not without its bright spots for the devout. Eight in 10 people surveyed knew that Mother Teresa was Catholic. Seven in 10 knew that, according to the Bible, Moses led the exodus from Egypt and that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

The question that elicited the most correct responses concerned whether public school teachers are allowed to lead their classes in prayer. Eighty-nine percent of the respondents correctly said no. However, 67% also said that such teachers are not permitted to read from the Bible as an example of literature, something the law clearly allows.

For comparison purposes, the survey also asked some questions about general knowledge, which yielded the scariest finding: 4% of Americans believe that Stephen King, not Herman Melville, wrote "Moby Dick."

mitchell.landsberg@latimes.com

Copyright © 2010, Los Angeles Times


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MrPeabody
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Post by MrPeabody »

I remember getting into an argument many years ago with a Pentecostal lady where I was unsuccessful in convincing her that the Old Testament was written by Hebrews and not born- again Christians.
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Winston
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Post by Winston »

I think this is true in one sense, since I learned more about Christianity from the Secular Web site than from Christian books. The Secular Web sites and articles were more willing to divulge ugly truths and verses that the Christians prefer to ignore.

Plus Christians tend to know only a one sided view of the Bible, that has been watered down to support core beliefs and doctrines. And of course, due to their religious beliefs, they have a strong bias toward the Bible, not an objective one.

Personally, I learned way more about the Bible as a non-believer than as a believer. Once you come from an objective standpoint, you learn a lot more that is unfiltered.

However, this study probably included people who merely call themselves Christians due to family traditions and lip service and the fact that they go to church regularly, rather than the Bible thumpers who can quote scriptures well.

But of course, memorizing Scriptures does not mean that one knows a lot about Christianity. Most Christians, including preachers, have no idea that the Bible borrowed it's ideas of Heaven and Hell, God vs. Satan, etc. from the religion of Zoroastrianism when Israel was under the dominion of the Persians. That is pretty clear from the evidence, but is so damaging to the doctrine that the Bible is uncorrupted infallible divine truth, that it is never mentioned.
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Winston
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Re: Atheists & Agnostics more knowledgeable about Religion than Believers are

Post by Winston »

This article may be true when comparing academic atheist professors at universities to stupid hillbillies and rednecks that think they are Christians. But it isn't true when it comes to Dr. Kent Hovind, Dr. Frank Turek, Dr. Stephen Meyer, or even me. Also the greatest scientists, minds and geniuses in world history were either theists or deists, not atheists, such as:

1. Isaac Newton
2. Galileo
3. Leonardo DaVinci
4. Albert Einstein
5. Nikola Tesla
6. Benjamin Franklin
7. Thomas Edison
Etc.

Even Darwin was a deist, not an atheist. Only a few philosophers like Nietzsche were atheists, but not the greatest inventors, scientists, or geniuses. No way. Even the smartest man in the world according to Einstein, who was Nikola Tesla, believed in a higher power. Atheists don't want you to know that because it doesn't serve them and their propaganda.

Btw @momopi if you want proof of a higher power or unseen forces right now, here are two ways you can get it immediately:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30590&p=310754#p310754

I made that important post just for you and other closed minded atheists who are dogmatic and unchanging about your beliefs and refuse to update your views in accord with any data or evidence.
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josephty2
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Re: Atheists & Agnostics more knowledgeable about Religion than Believers are

Post by josephty2 »

I would imagine they would study other relgions more since they are not affliated with any of them. Either an inch deep mile wide or a mile deep inch wide (from a college admissions officer quote).

However the purpose of religion is to provide some support in one's life, in ways beyond a selfhelp book for example. To put in a little of heaven to you and a little bit of hell away from you. (from near-death.com)
Last edited by josephty2 on January 6th, 2019, 6:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Then again, some people go all the way (cognitive dissonance/fallacy of incomplete evidence).

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Re: Atheists & Agnostics more knowledgeable about Religion than Believers are

Post by Aron »

@Winston
Winston wrote:
July 8th, 2018, 7:18 am
This article may be true when comparing academic atheist professors at universities to stupid hillbillies and rednecks that think they are Christians. But it isn't true when it comes to Dr. Kent Hovind, Dr. Frank Turek, Dr. Stephen Meyer, or even me.
So those 3 are the main figures whose arguments persuaded you of Intelligent Design? I guess that means i've rebutted about one third of the main people behind your belief in it since i already wrote you a whole article debunking kent hovind's Young Earth Creatonism. Although it'd probably be a waste of time to spend anywhere near as long on the ideas of the other two. What i've already covered shows that there is definitely common descent and macro-evolution. The objection Stephen Meyer makes that DNA is a code is true but what he does not understand is this does nothing to disprove evolution. It just shows that it is not simply an accumulation of random errors that were conveniently beneficial at enough of a rate to allow positive changes to accumulate over time, it's a directed process, but not one directed top down by some magical Omnipotent God, it's an accumulation of intentional adaptations by organisms.
Also the greatest scientists, minds and geniuses in world history were either theists or deists, not atheists, such as:

1. Isaac Newton
2. Galileo
3. Leonardo DaVinci
4. Albert Einstein
5. Nikola Tesla
6. Benjamin Franklin
7. Thomas Edison
Etc.
You're missing some very important context here. Throughout European and American history for a very long time there has been a very real threat of oppression by Christians to anyone who was an atheist. A lot of these people HAD to publicly call themselves either Theists(AKA Christians as other religions wouldn't be allowed) or at least Deists or the church would come after them. Galileo's a perfect example. Look at what the Church did to him. In America the founders made efforts to separate church and state but that didn't remove the threat completely, only in more recent times has atheism become mainstream enough to avoid this. And even now, in America for example no President can be an Atheist and hope to have a reasonable chance of getting elected as President most of the time. Granted for most areas of society Christian dominance has been removed now but this has taken a very long time.
Even Darwin was a deist, not an atheist. Only a few philosophers like Nietzsche were atheists, but not the greatest inventors, scientists, or geniuses. No way. Even the smartest man in the world according to Einstein, who was Nikola Tesla, believed in a higher power. Atheists don't want you to know that because it doesn't serve them and their propaganda.
Actually i'm pretty sure most atheists openly admit these people were deists, they just don't see it as proving anything. The context i explained is very important here.
Btw @momopi if you want proof of a higher power or unseen forces right now, here are two ways you can get it immediately:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30590&p=310754#p310754

I made that important post just for you and other closed minded atheists who are dogmatic and unchanging about your beliefs and refuse to update your views in accord with any data or evidence.
No need to respond as i already answered these points in the Atheists and Atheism thread.
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Winston
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Re: Atheists & Agnostics more knowledgeable about Religion than Believers are

Post by Winston »

It is true that Atheists often know the Bible better than most Christians do. And they are good at pointing out the flaws and problems in Christianity too. They deserve credit for that. However, the big core problem here is that they have ZERO arguments and evidence that no God or Creator exists at all. Hence they have no ground to stand on in claiming that no God exists at all period. All they have is arguments against Christian fundamentalism and the Bible, which is easy to critique since it's so absurd, so debunking it is like shooting fish in a barrel. However, no matter how much they disprove the Bible, they are NEVER able to prove their assertion that no God exists at all. You should consider this @momopi and @Aron.

For example, the books by the most popular authors of militant Atheism such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens, contain ZERO arguments that God does not exist and does not even try to give any. Obviously because they have NONE, which speaks volumes! And basically means that they have NOTHING to stand on, and hence is the WEAKEST paradigm of all! All they do is bash Christianity for its flaws and blabs about why religion is all bad and nothing good and has only caused wars and so therefore should be abolished, which is not true or balanced and way too one sided. Obviously there is good and bad in all religions but they are too blind and hateful and one sided to see that, so they only point out the bad and ignore the good. In doing so, they throw the baby out with the bath water and try to insinuate that since Christianity is bad and absurd, then all religions are bad and therefore no God can possibly exist. That's the only card they have, but it falsely connects things which are not the same. Because disproving Christianity is NOT the same as proving that no God or Creator exists at all. They can disprove Christianity all they want, but it still does NOT prove their contention that God does not exist in any shape or form at all! But they hope you are dumb enough not to realize that of course, and that you don't think for yourself, but blindly believe their BS fallacies.

In contrast, Christian apologetics books by Dr. William Lane Craig, Dr. JP Moreland, Dr. Frank Turek, and Lee Strobel do contain some valid logical arguments for the existence of God, such as the intelligent design argument, the anthropic principle, the prime mover argument, etc. So there is no question which side has more valid arguments. Theism wins hands down and the Atheists have been nothing but sore losers.

Essentially, Atheism is a HATE movement against Christianity, and that's why it always targets Christianity with disdain and ridicule, and not other religions. In doing so though, they throw the baby out with the bathwater, and presume that since the Christian religion is absurd and ridiculous and has caused wars, that therefore no God exists at all. That's an obvious fallacy, but since Atheism is a hate movement, you cannot expect rationality or logic from them. I do agree that Christianity is highly problematic and absurd, as I explained earlier, however creating a hate religion against it and using that to prove that no God exists at all is also absurd, and mentally unhealthy as well, since hate is never good for one's soul (even if they don't believe in the soul).

What Atheists don't realize is that they have no ground to stand on, because none of their heros and idols were Atheists like them. For example, their idols such as Isaac Newton, Galileo, Charles Darwin, etc. but those men were NOT Atheists. They all believed in God in some form, even if they were Deists and did not believe that God intervened in the world. But they were theists and believed in a divine Creator. So none of the Atheists' idols were Atheists, which is ironic and funny and only goes to show that none of the great minds of history were Atheists, hence they have no ground to stand on. In fact, the greatest geniuses in the world, such as Einstein, Tesla, Newton, DaVinci, Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison, Plato, Socrates, etc. were neither Atheists/Materialists nor religious fundamentalists. This means of course that the smarter and wiser one is, the more they see through the folly of both dogmatic Atheism and religion, and ascribe to neither, because both models stifle freethought and are authoritarian based, not reason based, which great thinkers cannot accept or align with.

All this shows just how foolish and empty and devoid of value Atheism really is. Hence why I say it is the WEAKEST paradigm of all with ZERO value. All it is is a HATE movement against Christianity and is guilty of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which is intellectually lazy.
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Winston
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Re: Atheists & Agnostics more knowledgeable about Religion than Believers are

Post by Winston »

Aron wrote:
August 24th, 2018, 7:52 pm
Also the greatest scientists, minds and geniuses in world history were either theists or deists, not atheists, such as:

1. Isaac Newton
2. Galileo
3. Leonardo DaVinci
4. Albert Einstein
5. Nikola Tesla
6. Benjamin Franklin
7. Thomas Edison
Etc.
You're missing some very important context here. Throughout European and American history for a very long time there has been a very real threat of oppression by Christians to anyone who was an atheist. A lot of these people HAD to publicly call themselves either Theists(AKA Christians as other religions wouldn't be allowed) or at least Deists or the church would come after them. Galileo's a perfect example. Look at what the Church did to him. In America the founders made efforts to separate church and state but that didn't remove the threat completely, only in more recent times has atheism become mainstream enough to avoid this. And even now, in America for example no President can be an Atheist and hope to have a reasonable chance of getting elected as President most of the time. Granted for most areas of society Christian dominance has been removed now but this has taken a very long time.
Just a minute @Aron. You too are missing something important here. Most if not all those genius men listed above were heavily into the OCCULT and MYSTICISM. Therefore, they definitely could NOT have been atheists, not in the Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris sense. Because those into occult and mysticism definitely believe in the spirit world, even if they dismiss organized religion or the Church. So they were not dogmatic materialists like academia is today.

Haven't you researched the biography of those men above? You can watch documentaries about them on YouTube. It's well known they were into the occult and even did paranormal research. Edison and Newton definitely did. And Ben Franklin was involved in many secret societies, which were occult in nature. And as everyone knows, you cannot be a Freemason if you are an atheist. Franklin was a Freemason too. Einstein said he believed in a Pantheistic and Deist God and divinely ordered the universe. I have the quote from him and have posted it a number of times. Tesla definitely believed in a higher power and even said his ideas were channeled from above from a creative core in the universe.

Didn't you know all this? This is common knowledge. So no these men could not have been closet atheists. There's no evidence that they were either. Aren't you just projecting your wishful thinking onto them because you hope that they were closet atheists even though there is no reason to suppose that they were?
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Re: Atheists & Agnostics more knowledgeable about Religion than Believers are

Post by Gali »

List of atheists in science and technology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... technology
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Winston
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Re: Atheists & Agnostics more knowledgeable about Religion than Believers are

Post by Winston »

Aron wrote:
August 24th, 2018, 7:52 pm
Winston wrote:
July 8th, 2018, 7:18 am
This article may be true when comparing academic atheist professors at universities to stupid hillbillies and rednecks that think they are Christians. But it isn't true when it comes to Dr. Kent Hovind, Dr. Frank Turek, Dr. Stephen Meyer, or even me.
So those 3 are the main figures whose arguments persuaded you of Intelligent Design? I guess that means i've rebutted about one third of the main people behind your belief in it since i already wrote you a whole article debunking kent hovind's Young Earth Creatonism. Although it'd probably be a waste of time to spend anywhere near as long on the ideas of the other two. What i've already covered shows that there is definitely common descent and macro-evolution. The objection Stephen Meyer makes that DNA is a code is true but what he does not understand is this does nothing to disprove evolution. It just shows that it is not simply an accumulation of random errors that were conveniently beneficial at enough of a rate to allow positive changes to accumulate over time, it's a directed process, but not one directed top down by some magical Omnipotent God, it's an accumulation of intentional adaptations by organisms.
Not just those three, but others too. You gotta give them credit where it's due. They do have some strong arguments for intelligent design and for the existence of God. In contrast atheists have ZERO arguments against the existence of God. They only have arguments against the Bible and Christian religion, which is fine, but disproving Christianity or organized religion does NOT prove that no God exists at all. Also, just because the Christian religion is flawed doesn't mean it has zero truth. It definitely has some truth in it, even if it's mostly metaphorical. Nothing that is full of complete lies can endure or attract so many people to it. It has to have some truth in order to resonate with people and attract many people. Atheists are extremists and never realize this or the folly of their extremities.

What do you mean evolution is a directed process? By whom? Do you mean by the species itself? If so, how? Where does the info from the genome come from? Random mutations and natural selection cannot produce new info in the genome.
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