Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

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MrMan
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by MrMan »

xiongmao wrote:Well I've now done my CELTA, it was harder than I ever expected - even doing it part-time, but the certificate arrived last week. Definitely if you want to teach overseas, then get the CELTA.

Spain should be on that list - it's a great country to live in AND there are a lot of TEFL jobs, particularly in the smaller towns and cities.

In China the big money is to be made from private tuition. When I was a university student there the admin staff were swamped with companies wanting English tuition for their staff. I turned it all down as I was too busy firefighting my mosquito issue and dating hot hot women.
How much did corporate gigs pay in China?

When I was in Indonesia, I determined that I wouldn't really benefit much from the CELTA. It's great if you want to know how to teach English. I'd taken a course in it in college. But if I remember right, you could only get a certificate if you were completing an education degree or teacher certification. The ESL certificate was an add-on to that. I also learned how to teach through trial and error.

After having X years of experience, having a CELTA didn't help that much. I may have lost one job over it at a national plus school in Indonesia that would have considered hiring me if I had a CELTA certificate. But most schools wouldn't consider it because CELTA was for teaching adults, and these types of schools were secondary schools that taught children.

In South Korea when I was there, you just needed a college degree to get the job. I'm not saying a CELTA wouldn't be worth it to know what you are doing and have some confidence. But it probably wouldn't have helped me land a job. It was easy to do that. And I don't think there is a bump up in pay if you have a CELTA in most cases. Maybe having it would put your resume at the top of the stack if there is competition or get you into some slightly higher paying school that pays a bit more. But I don't think it helps if you are in a market where there is a high demand for native English speaker teachers and salaries are rather flat. South Korea seemed to fit that description when I went there.


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xiongmao
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by xiongmao »

Anyone going to go teaching overseas?

I've been offered a job and I'm currently doing the paperwork (harder than doing the actual job!!!!)

My tips:

Scan job boards and apply for anything you like the sound of even if they say you need 2 years experience etc. etc.
Be ruthless and turn down the many things you're offered but don't like the sound of. Like avoid all those ones where you have to be on site for 8 hours a day.
TEFL providers often have job listings - this is actually how I found mine.
After all the hassle of the CELTA my new employers weren't actually sure it was a 120 hour certificate. In fact it is a 160 hour certificate lol.
Still it is worth getting a CELTA - I'm pretty sure none of the classes I will ever teach in future will be as hard as the CELTA ones were.
Having a degree helps.
Teaching experience is highly valued. I failed to get any in the UK as it's easier to find a full time paid job than a volunteer teaching job lol.
Learning your new country's language shows that you are serious. If you want to go to China then try and pass the HSK. Or do the equivalent qualification for Japan.
Previously living in the country is a BIG plus as well. Failing that just visiting there on vacation.
BenTeachesEnglishOverseas on YouTube has some awesome videos.
Make sure you have Skype.
Have some sort of life plan as English teaching is a good job but not such a great career. If you're genuinely interested in teaching, do a proper teaching qualification (like a PGCE in the UK).
Start doing your paperwork early!!!
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DwyaneLin
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by DwyaneLin »

Scams about Teaching in China
1. Too Good to Be True
Cheaters may seem too eager to hire you and offer you a high-paid salary, even if you lack a bachelor’s degree, teaching experience, TEFL certificate, teaching qualifications, etc.

2. Visa Scam
If your school is ready to hire you without a work visa, that would be a major scam. In the absence of a work visa, you will not be able to advocate for unpaid wages in an arbitration court. You will also not have the right to work, the ability to get a Chinese bank account, and many other small conveniences. These conditions are not favorable if you want to work in a foreign country.

If you get caught working on a tourist or student visa, you can be fined, put in an administrative holding facility (similar to jail) for up to ten days, or get deported.

3. Contract Does Not Match Verbal Promise
For instance, false recruiters promise you an international school position. Still, in reality, they start you off in one school then shift you to another and another without proper reason, cause, or your permission.
JackFlexer
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by JackFlexer »

You need a BS degree to work legally in Taiwan as a Teacher but I know how to get around that. You like flying every 30 days?
MrMan
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by MrMan »

DwyaneLin wrote:
September 4th, 2021, 5:33 am
Scams about Teaching in China
1. Too Good to Be True
Cheaters may seem too eager to hire you and offer you a high-paid salary, even if you lack a bachelor’s degree, teaching experience, TEFL certificate, teaching qualifications, etc.

2. Visa Scam
If your school is ready to hire you without a work visa, that would be a major scam. In the absence of a work visa, you will not be able to advocate for unpaid wages in an arbitration court. You will also not have the right to work, the ability to get a Chinese bank account, and many other small conveniences. These conditions are not favorable if you want to work in a foreign country.

If you get caught working on a tourist or student visa, you can be fined, put in an administrative holding facility (similar to jail) for up to ten days, or get deported.

3. Contract Does Not Match Verbal Promise
For instance, false recruiters promise you an international school position. Still, in reality, they start you off in one school then shift you to another and another without proper reason, cause, or your permission.
I won't go into details, but I had a high paid job that involved teaching in a certain south-east Asian country--not 6 figures, but still good with an apartment with access to big jacuzzis, swimming pools, work-out facilities, etc., a driver, summer vacation, etc.-- and they couldn't get one of the departments to release permission for a work visa. I was on a business visit visa, flying back and forth. They paid for hotels for me and my kids, so we got these tiring mini-vacays to Singapore, and then realized we could go to Malaysia since we were not going to the embassy and did not have to use Indonesia's faster visa processing in Singapore. We stayed in a service apartment there with a big gym and a pool-- and cold tubs instead of hot tubs which was disappointing. But still it was a nice place. I even found out I had a relative who lived there and the kids got to meet and spend a little time together.

Then we got a new director and they wanted me to take a bunch of kids on a one-day visa run. It seemed unfair. Not long before I left, they got my visa straightened out because of the school's financial issues.

There was no intention to scam. But their ambitions to grow outstripped the governments ability or willingness to efficiently process visas, apparently.

In South Korea, I did not hear about as many of these issues. There were some shadier schools I might have heard about, or poorer schools who might have been chintzy on legal fees or who had problems with the government. Posters on ESL cafe would tell stories about these schools.
MrMan
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by MrMan »

JackFlexer wrote:
February 28th, 2022, 10:12 am
You need a BS degree to work legally in Taiwan as a Teacher but I know how to get around that.
What if you have a really serious four-year degree? Would they accept that?

:lol:
glanmit
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by glanmit »

Getting ready my certificates at the moment, and I'm enthusiastic about pursuing a teaching career in the future. To streamline the process and ensure everything is in order, I'm planning to reach out to nassau community college customer service. Connecting with them seems like a practical step to inquire about any assistance they might provide in handling the necessary documents.
Last edited by glanmit on January 17th, 2024, 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
yick
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by yick »

You basically need a bachelors degree for the better paid jobs and they're out there and if have that then I would try and get a masters degree in linguistics or TESOL/TEFL - this will get you in the door for the better paid jobs in the Middle East saying that though, the big giant player in today's TEFL market is China, China, China! I am here now, I am well paid, I don't do too much and I save most of my money and have a substantial sum of savings - I plan to carry on here until I can't anymore and retire to Latin America or Spain.

You don't need a degree but you will be confined to the lesser paid jobs in Latin America and parts of south east Asia. You more than likely won't have a legal working visa and you won't be well paid but you will be able to live in the local economy, expect to be treated like crap and work long hours and be subjected to whatever behaviours based on the directors whim.

Most decent schools will want you to have a university degree of some kind.

But don't let anyone tell you it is a crap life or a dead end, it isn't. I wouldn't swap my working life for the world.
MrMan
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by MrMan »

I haven't taught English in years. I am glad I got into another field of teaching. I can lecture with a bit of group work. You cannot really do that and really teach a language.

I got out of it because I had a family to support. I married an Indonesian and settled in there. Paying for school was coming up and I wanted them to learn in English.

EF had come into Jakarta, managing to pay 60% of previous salary, giving experience to teachers who would look for the better paying jobs. Language schools paid low wages. I got a corporate training job for a multinational corporation which paid nearly as well in nominal terms as a job I had there years before. If I wanted to earn a decent wage, international schools paid well but required teacher certification in the home country. I had a degree in Linguistics, so I was thinking if I had to study for two years, a masters was a better deal. I was trying to find MAT degrees. I also realized an ESL only degree would make me less marketable than being a teacher in another field at the international schools.

I went to grad school in another field, first a masters, then a PhD. I wanted education that could help me be employable in the US or overseas.

I did not study education teach now because I have a doctorate. Looking just at salaries now, ESL salaries seem so low. The dollar amount stated similar over the decades while inflation rose.

The $1600 a month I earned in 1995 in Korea is worth maybe 3100 mow. I would not want to make that now but it is an okay salary for a single university grad in a humanities or social science, field and good because of not paying rent or a mortgage and not having tobe on site all the time.

I wonder how accurate posts are in these threads nowadays. Did China kick out most foreign teachers or let their visas expire?
Last edited by MrMan on January 17th, 2024, 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
yick
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by yick »

MrMan wrote:
January 17th, 2024, 3:06 am
I haven't taught English in years. I sm glad I got into another field of teaching. I can lecture with a bit of group work. You cannot really do that and really teach a language.

I got out of it because I had a family to support. I married an Indonesian and settled in there. Paying for school was coming up and I wanted them to learn in English.

EF had come into Jakarta, managing to pay 60% of previous salary, giving experience to teachers who would look for tge better paying jobs. Language schools paid low wages. I got a corporate training job for a multinational corporation which paid nearly as well in nominal terms as a job I had there years before.if I wanted to earn a decent wage, international schools paid well but required teachee certification in the home country. I had a degree in Linguistics, so I was thinking if I had to study for two years, a masters was a better deal. I was trying to find MAT defrees. I also realized an ESL only degree would make me less marketable than being a teacher in another field at the international schools.

I went to grad school in another field, first a masters, then a PhD. I wanted education that could help me be employable in the US or overseas.

I did not study education teach now because I have a doctorate. Looking just at salaries now, ESL salaries seem so low. The dollar amount stated similar over the decades while inflation rose.

The $1600 a month I earned in 1985 in Korea is worth maybe 3100 mow. I would not want to make that now but it is an okay salary for a single university grad in a humanities or social science, field and good because of not paying rent or a mortgage and nothavingtobe on site all the time.

I wonder how accurate posts are in these threads nowadays. Did China kick out most foreign teachers or let their visas expire?
You weren't earning 2.1 million a month in South Korea in 1985 from any one job, maybe from a job, overtime, privates and working many hours etc but I still doubt it. In 2009 when I was there, the average hogwon wage was around 2.2 million won.

China hasn't kicked most foreign teachers out, they are having a massive problem in attracting teachers from the west for obvious reasons but I am here so nope, they're not kicking people out.
MrMan
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by MrMan »

yick wrote:
January 17th, 2024, 3:28 am
MrMan wrote:
January 17th, 2024, 3:06 am
I haven't taught English in years. I sm glad I got into another field of teaching. I can lecture with a bit of group work. You cannot really do that and really teach a language.

I got out of it because I had a family to support. I married an Indonesian and settled in there. Paying for school was coming up and I wanted them to learn in English.

EF had come into Jakarta, managing to pay 60% of previous salary, giving experience to teachers who would look for tge better paying jobs. Language schools paid low wages. I got a corporate training job for a multinational corporation which paid nearly as well in nominal terms as a job I had there years before.if I wanted to earn a decent wage, international schools paid well but required teachee certification in the home country. I had a degree in Linguistics, so I was thinking if I had to study for two years, a masters was a better deal. I was trying to find MAT defrees. I also realized an ESL only degree would make me less marketable than being a teacher in another field at the international schools.

I went to grad school in another field, first a masters, then a PhD. I wanted education that could help me be employable in the US or overseas.

I did not study education teach now because I have a doctorate. Looking just at salaries now, ESL salaries seem so low. The dollar amount stated similar over the decades while inflation rose.

The $1600 a month I earned in 1985 in Korea is worth maybe 3100 mow. I would not want to make that now but it is an okay salary for a single university grad in a humanities or social science, field and good because of not paying rent or a mortgage and nothavingtobe on site all the time.

I wonder how accurate posts are in these threads nowadays. Did China kick out most foreign teachers or let their visas expire?
You weren't earning 2.1 million a month in South Korea in 1985 from any one job, maybe from a job, overtime, privates and working many hours etc but I still doubt it. In 2009 when I was there, the average hogwon wage was around 2.2 million won.
I did not say I was earning 2.1 m. I wrote $1600 a month, which would be worth about $3100 now. But I was fat-thumbing it on my phone and I put 1985 instead of 1995 by mistake.

I just saw ads on Dave's ESL cafe paying 2.5, 2.8 , and 3 million won a month. In today's dollars, I was making 10 thousand more a year back in the mid 1990s.

I didn't do private lessons because I had signed a contract that forbade it. But that seemed to be where the money was, at least in Seoul, where I was not living.
China hasn't kicked most foreign teachers out, they are having a massive problem in attracting teachers from the west for obvious reasons but I am here so nope, they're not kicking people out.
I would imagine it is quite an adventure.

I interviewed at a university in China several years ago for a faculty lecturer position. It was an interesting experience, but they low-balled me on the salary, and I took a job in Indonesia that paid wages in line with the world market wage. If I could have gotten university housing at the school in China, it would have been in the middle of campus. The place was small for my family. I injured my knuckles on the wood hitting the mattress to see if it was soft when I had a look at one of the apartments. In Indonesia, we ended up in a high rise apartment with access to four jakuzis, three swimming pools, two fitness centers, and eventually we had a grocery store and small food court in the same complex.
yick
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by yick »

MrMan wrote:
January 17th, 2024, 7:20 am
I did not say I was earning 2.1 m. I wrote $1600 a month, which would be worth about $3100 now. But I was fat-thumbing it on my phone and I put 1985 instead of 1995 by mistake. [/quote]

You weren't paid in dollars in South Korea, you would have been paid in KRW and you might have been paid between 1.3 million and 1.7 but you weren't on 2.1 million won a month in 1995.
I just saw ads on Dave's ESL cafe paying 2.5, 2.8 , and 3 million won a month. In today's dollars, I was making 10 thousand more a year back in the mid 1990s.
Except you're lying.
I didn't do private lessons because I had signed a contract that forbade it. But that seemed to be where the money was, at least in Seoul, where I was not living.
You weren't on the KRW equivalent of 1600 dollars in the sticks - you're lying.

I would imagine it is quite an adventure.

I interviewed at a university in China several years ago for a faculty lecturer position. It was an interesting experience, but they low-balled me on the salary, and I took a job in Indonesia that paid wages in line with the world market wage. If I could have gotten university housing at the school in China, it would have been in the middle of campus. The place was small for my family. I injured my knuckles on the wood hitting the mattress to see if it was soft when I had a look at one of the apartments. In Indonesia, we ended up in a high rise apartment with access to four jakuzis, three swimming pools, two fitness centers, and eventually we had a grocery store and small food court in the same complex.
Good for you, in another five years I will be mortgage free living in a lovely brand new apartment in a salubrious Latin American capital - you can keep your yank uni job. I don't go back to work until February the 28th, what about you? :lol:
MrMan
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by MrMan »

yick wrote:
January 17th, 2024, 7:49 am
MrMan wrote:
January 17th, 2024, 7:20 am
I did not say I was earning 2.1 m. I wrote $1600 a month, which would be worth about $3100 now. But I was fat-thumbing it on my phone and I put 1985 instead of 1995 by mistake.
You weren't paid in dollars in South Korea, you would have been paid in KRW and you might have been paid between 1.3 million and 1.7 but you weren't on 2.1 million won a month in 1995.[/quote]

Look at my posts. Where does this 2.1 number come in? Quote me if I said that, because I don't know what you are talking about.

I am using dollar conversions at the time and now, Most people here probably do not understand won. I might have been getting 1.2. I haven't used won in years so I recall dollar amounts for some things.

I am also converting to todays dollars using Google searches. If you will pay attention to what I wrote, I say in today's dollars.
I just saw ads on Dave's ESL cafe paying 2.5, 2.8 , and 3 million won a month. In today's dollars, I was making 10 thousand more a year back in the mid 1990s.
Except you're lying.
No, I am not. You seem to be making up numbers in your head or getting my posts confused with someone else's. I am talking about inflation-adjusted wages, or 'real wages', not nominal wages. In today's dollars, my salary back then was worth 10 thousand more per year in today's US dollars when compared to some of the salaries today.
I didn't do private lessons because I had signed a contract that forbade it. But that seemed to be where the money was, at least in Seoul, where I was not living.
You weren't on the KRW equivalent of 1600 dollars in the sticks - you're lying.
I was in Taejon or Daejon, with the unaspirated consonants, about an hour or hour and a half south of Seoul, not really the sticks. I got Seoul wages since someone from Seoul recruited me and provided me as a teacher to the school in Daejon, but paid me the wage of the teachers there in Seoul. The equivalent of roughly $1500 a month was the going rate. I'm thinking that might have been 1.2 and 1.1 or 1.3 and 1.2 million in won, but this was a long time ago, and I remember the approximate dollar rate at the beginning of the contract. I was making a little less toward the end of my term since the dollar went up toward the end of my contract.
Good for you, in another five years I will be mortgage free living in a lovely brand new apartment in a salubrious Latin American capital - you can keep your yank uni job. I don't go back to work until February the 28th, what about you? :lol:
I'm working away teaching less than two hours a day, three days a week, making a lot more than I did as an English teacher, without having to work in the summer if I choose not to.

That sounds nice, but I can't really compete on cushiness because I have to publish and do other work, though. I don't know how the conversation got turned into a competition. I was pointing out how much real wages (inflation adjusted wages) had gone down for English teachers in South Korea.
yick
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by yick »

MrMan wrote:
January 17th, 2024, 8:02 am

I am using dollar conversions at the time and now, Most people here probably do not understand won. I might have been getting 1.2. I haven't used won in years so I recall dollar amounts for some things.

I am also converting to todays dollars using Google searches. If you will pay attention to what I wrote, I say in today's dollars.


Well, I understand won, tell me what you were on in KRW - I knew loads of teachers and not one single teacher from the US, UK, Canada (loads of Canadians) was on over 3 million won - most were earning 2.1-2.2 million won, you weren't on 2.1 million won or the dollar equivalent in 1995 - you can say you were until you're blue in the face but I don't believe for one second.


No, I am not.
Yes you are.


I was in Taejon or Daejon, with the unaspirated consonants, about an hour or hour and a half south of Seoul, not really the sticks. I got Seoul wages since someone from Seoul recruited me and provided me as a teacher to the school in Daejon, but paid me the wage of the teachers there in Seoul. The equivalent of roughly $1500 a month was the going rate. I'm thinking that might have been 1.2 and 1.1 or 1.3 and 1.2 million in won, but this was a long time ago, and I remember the approximate dollar rate at the beginning of the contract. I was making a little less toward the end of my term since the dollar went up toward the end of my contract.
The sticks. So, that sounds something more like - you were on between 1.1 to 1.3 million won. We will have to drag up a historical conversion chart from somewhere.

I'm working away teaching less than two hours a day, three days a week, making a lot more than I did as an English teacher, without having to work in the summer if I choose not to.
But you work that summer anyway. :lol:
That sounds nice, but I can't really compete on cushiness because I have to publish and do other work, though. I don't know how the conversation got turned into a competition. I was pointing out how much real wages (inflation adjusted wages) had gone down for English teachers in South Korea.
How did it get to a competition again? All I was saying was I wouldn't want anything you that you have, good if you're happy.
yick
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Re: Getting a Job Teaching English Overseas

Post by yick »

I have just checked it out and you are right, 1.2 million won was about 1600 dollars in 1995!

https://www.xe.com/currencytables/?from ... le-section

I was wrong, there was a strong KRW when you was there and when I was there it was a lot weaker. I learned something new today. :lol:
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