This HA Movement is Weird

[praxis22]

I haven't done this for years, (forum life) I'd forgotten places like this existed

Strangely, I only subscribed to add a comment about James Altucher, he's very good. but having had a small look about this place is mad.

You're looking for women, yet you have a great deal of misogyny, and Avatars of women in various states of undress. Not to mention the more lurid pictures from AFA, etc.

Perhaps I should explain, I'm in the process, ZAGS permitting, I'll be married early this year to a woman with a two year old son, and I will have an instant family, that will be good.

However, this isn't cheap, no matter how you do it, it isn't cheap, it will cost you, (conservative estimate) approx $10-16K, You're going to need a house/apartment and a steady job, which given the state of the global financial system going forward may be rough.

If you are living in America, you're going to be burning a lot of money on phone calls, I'm averaging 1-2 trips a month to Ukraine, and I'm still burning through money on the phone.

Pro-Tip: you can buy a cheap SIM in Ukraine on the Life:) (the smiley is part of the brand/name, it's red.) network, which allows her to call you at a fraction of the price you call her, it cost 15gr, (12 copeks a minute) Also in country it's the best network to be on, good internet connection. Make sure you pack an Android phone, Google translate and maps are life savers. Also, you can use Google talk, (buy her an android phone) to save on SMS charges, which mount up, and then you don't have a 140 character limit.

If you're doing phone calls, you're going to have to deal with a long distance relationship, that is hard, even at close proximity like I am it's still hard, for both of you.

You need to understand the culture, there is Russian Culture, there is Ukrainian culture, for the simple reason that you can take the woman out of the country but you cannot take the country out of the woman. I had problems at the start, because I still didn't understand what was expected, so I defaulted to being a Western, "feminised" man, that only serves to get up their nose, and they are not used to men agreeing with them, at least not for an easy life like we do.

It is my contention/opinion that the reason why Western men get scammed so much is because they don't act like men, not the men these women are used to, and these women live and breathe men, if they're not married by the time they're 25 they are unlikely to get married at all. Beauty is the least of their assets, they are incredibly well educated, my Fiancée speaks three languages and is learning a fourth, they are cultured, love to read, (when was the last time you read a book for pleasure?) They are schooled in the classics from an early age. And then they are placed in front of a Westerner, who thinks he can buy her, and offers to buy whatever she looks at. She looks at you, sees you are weak, dismisses you and takes the gifts/money. And it is easy money, not only that they can go on courses to learn how to press your buttons, you're a fungible resource.

If you want the girl, you're going to have to grow up and be a man, as she understands them, because only when she thinks you're a man, will she feel safe being a woman. Otherwise it's a dog eat dog world out there and she's probably getting paid 1-2000gr ($1-200) a month, Average rent, $3-500, this is why she still lives with her family, so they can split the rent. If you don't understand this, you will be taken like a rookie. I had to fight for that insight, benefit from it, "a man is known by his actions"

A good start would be here: http://www.amazon.com/Manhood-Steve-Bid ... 0091894816 (though I think there is a newer edition)

7 steps to manhood:

'Fixing it' with your father. - Alive or dead he's all you've got.
Finding sacredness in your sexuality. - Ditch the porn.
Meeting your partner in equal terms. - Your wife is not your mother.
Engage actively with your kids. - Be the role model you wanted, play.
Learning to have real male friends. - You need emotional support.
Finding your heart in your work. - Love what you do.
Freeing the wild spirit. - Get outside, commune, forget your fears.

If you are seriously thinking of going, and statistically, only 10% that write will go, then by all means go on a tour, the first time, get a feel. But then go read "a girl like me, 2005" by Elena Solomon, (she runs Elena's models, Russian, married a white South African) you can find it for free on pdf sharing sites. Or pay for it. There was another one I paid for, "so you want to marry a Ukrainian lady" or something like that, mostly for background. You need to understand the culture.

Also understand the agency model, they know if you go to see one woman, you fail and get discouraged they lose a customer. If you're a woman, and you don't meet the guy at the airport, and watch him leave from the airport, then you can be sure he's going to see other women, kid in the candy store style, "you cannot bargain for love" nor can you audition or interview for it. If you're serious about this, do as Elena suggests, go see one woman at a time. Rent an apartment. No woman will join you in your hotel room, only prostitutes do that.

You are not buying a woman, you are looking for a wife, and the mother of your kids. (Because if you're looking for a woman of child bearing age, 19 -40, and they don't already have a lot of kids, they are going to want one, and want one with you.) If a woman came up to you in a bar, wearing daisy dukes and a bikini, you'd think she was easy, didn't respect herself. So why are you looking at/interested in profiles with public bikini pictures? I'm sure you see what I'm getting at. Sure the bikini pictures are hot, but that's a fantasy, not a real woman, not a real relationship.

For those that make the trip, however you make it, I wish you luck, the rest of you should probably go back to surfing the NSFW board.

[praxis22]

Forum substitution of Pro... to Hoe, classy

[zboy1]

Welcome to the forum, praxis22. You're itching for a fight here with your comments, so expect some feedback soon.

[RobinHood]

Welcome to the forum

Are there many people from Germany looking for women from the Ukraine? What's the entry / residency rules for them into Germany.

[praxis22]

Spoiling for a fight? Not so much. But I'm very close to this right now, it is the stuff of my daily life. ignore me if I'm trampling your ideology, most will.

Germany, indeed all 27 European countries, are covered by the foundational document of the European union called "the Treaty of Rome" It guarantees citizen of Europe certain freedoms, like the right of residency in any European country, and the right to bring immediate family, (by marriage) with them. There are formalities to be observed, but even a nation state cannot turn you down. You can take them to court if they try. So you get married normally in country, then you go to the embassy to do paperwork, two to six moths later they arrive, they get residency, and in my case, because of work, free health care.

[fschmidt]

you have a great deal of misogyny

Where?

[praxis22]

Here: viewtopic.php?t=15363
Here: viewtopic.php?t=13206
Here: viewtopic.php?t=17361
Here: viewtopic.php?t=10454

And here: viewtopic.php?t=17371

For reference here's wikipedia, (I know, I know, but it's fairly comprehensive, and easy to read) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny

Though I think of misogyny less about hating women, more of the denigrating, disliking, and objectifying, etc. That and the double standard/dichotomy of Mother/whore

Objectification is easy: Plenty of pictures of scantily clad women, there as eye candy. You could pick something other than a bikini shot, there are many images out there, but some chose to use explicitly sexualised images of women. You could of course say that I'm a prude, which is not actually the case, I'm just arguing semantics.

Denigrating: making jokes at the expense of women, talking about them mostly in a sexual context, favouring their bad side, off days, etc.

Disliking, also easy: Boycott this race/class of women, American Women, Canadian women, black women.

Boycott: "Withdraw from commercial or social relations with (a country, organization, or person) as a punishment or protest." almost by definition you don't do that to somebody or something you like, and are more likely to have bad feelings about that which you are boycotting. I personally am boycotting Sony, I won't see, hear or even steal their products. As a company, I dislike them.

The double standard is evident in the last link especially. The writer of the blog is making the rational argument that all things considered women should look for financially secure/savvy men. The same way that the NYT recently reported that the current trend amongst young metrosexuals is to ask for your credit score, since you don't want to be going out with a deadbeat, the example given was a young man asking a young woman, she did not have a good credit rating. it was almost like reading an article by the Onion.

Yet this is exactly what men like me, (and indeed all older Western men) are doing, looking for younger women in Eastern Europe, Asia, and South America. It's a trade as old as time, Youth & Beauty for stability & (financial) Security. Because if they wanted a young, poor and unstable man they could find plenty of those at home.

The Mother/Whore thing is too easy, the standard riff is that women who like sex are dirty, men who like sex, are healthy vigorous heterosexuals.

Like I said, it's not about Hate, and it's not about people, it's about behaviour, hence, "you have a great deal of misogyny" as opposed to "a large number of misogynists"

But I'm not changing anyone's mind, I'm just a killjoy out to spoil harmless fun right?

[fschmidt]

Though I think of misogyny less about hating women, more of the denigrating, disliking, and objectifying, etc. That and the double standard/dichotomy of Mother/whore

One of the common tricks of modern liberal culture is to redefine words to suit their goals. The word "misogyny" is clearly defined in any English dictionary as "a hatred of women". If you are willing to use words as defined in the dictionary, then we can have a discussion. But if you redefine words as Leftists typically do, then communication with you would be a waste of time because we aren't even speaking the same language.

[praxis22]

Guilty as charged, I am an unrepentant Keynesian Socialist, Like Krugman says, everyone know that reality has a liberal bias

[Andrewww]

Your first post is a good reality check for a lot of guys around here. I believe I said somewhere that EE women are not just damsels in distress. A lot of them are very well educated and they're not up for playing games and getting laid with the first dumb Westerner who gets off the plane.

However, I disagree with a few things you said. Before you start blaming men and teaching us the 7 steps to manhood, ask yourself this: when are women going to fix their daddy issues, find sacredness in their sexuality instead of flaunting it to as many guys as possible, stop treating men as disposable and take on their roles of child bearers to raise the kids ?

What you don't seem to understand (maybe it's because you don't live in the West) is that being a man in the West is frowned upon. There's misandry going around, there's a lot of immature gangster/guido/douchebags (aka the opposite of your 7 steps) who attract a lot of women and generally a lack of values or common sense going around.

It's not so much a problem with the men, it's really a problem with the women.

And your comment about:

The Mother/Whore thing is too easy, the standard riff is that women who like sex are dirty, men who like sex, are healthy vigorous heterosexuals.

is again terribly flawed. It's really not about women who like sex. Women can have as much sex as they want as long as they are in a long-term relationship...as long as they don't sleep with 20-30 guys by the time they finish college and if women would treasure those types of relationships, then the men would comply.

[praxis22]

There was no blame intended, more an amazement that men weren't doing their research/homework/due diligence, call it what you will. I doubt most women want a White Knight to be honest. A capable man however, that's a different story.

They are not my 7 steps, they come out of the book, seemingly the only book about being a man, I know as went into a book shop and asked, they looked it up

Historically speaking men have been disposable. I read this amazing article last year, a response from a sociologist to the feminist critique/question of "what's good about men?" in it, it had the most amazing stat. That in the history of the species, 80% of all women had given birth, but to only 40% of the men. 60% of all men that have ever lived have been wiped from the gene pool. However that does mean that all men now alive are the progeny of life's winners.

Germany is in the home of the enlightenment, (Western Europe) that's the West last time I looked. Nor do I think that being a man is frowned upon, I think men are afraid, (and unsupported) to be otherwise. Though yes, women who like sex the most, generally prefer "bad boys" there is even academic research to back that up.

I must admit, that as a long time observer of the dysfunction in popular American culture, the seeming breakdown of trust between the sexes, is amazing. Brené Brown's last talk on shame and daring greatly is very good on that I thought: http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_li ... shame.html

Nor am I prescriptive about sex, everyone can have as much sex as they can handle as far as I'm concerned. In or out of relationships, your body your choice. though again science has been there too, men on average have had 4 sex partners, before marriage, women 10+ but it's either that or the Ancient Greeks, your choice.

[Andrewww]

I highly doubt women in the pre-1950s era had 10 partners before marriage. Virginity was still treasured in those days.

But if you take this scientific diarrhea at face value then it really doesn't support your first post. If women nowadays want the bad boy then give them the bad boy attitude. Treat them like crap, be a mysoginist because if you follow the 7 steps you'll most likely end up alone.

[Winston]

Praxis22,
You must be a woman. Only a feminist woman would call people "misogynist". That term is a total myth and shaming tactic. See Roosh's satire and expose of it here:

http://www.rooshv.com/what-is-a-misogynist

It's very true. No one here hates women, otherwise they would not care about them and would not be hurt by them.

In truth, the term "misogynist" is used by women who hate men for being what they are. This article I wrote about how terms are flipped upside for mind control purposes applies:

viewtopic.php?t=17075

1. Sexist/Sexism

A sexist is someone who degrades or discriminates against another sex. Angry man-hating feminists do just that. They demean, degrade and vilify men based on false assumptions. They fight for feminist superiority and tyranny, and view men as inherently evil, creeps and predators by nature. Yet in spite of all this, modern American culture does not consider them sexist.

Instead, if YOU oppose their tyranny and abuse, or expose them in any way, then YOU are branded the sexist. WTF? That is so upside down. In other words, bashing males is ok, but standing up to the unjust vilification of men is "sexism". It's a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black, while incorrectly attributing a term to others that is more true of themselves.

The truth is, men don't hate women. They love women in general, as long as they are nice and decent to them. But feminists do inherently hate men, and they show it by their actions, even if they don't say it in exact words. Ironically, although feminists hate men, they strive to be like them in acquiring masculine traits, coupled with their own neurosis, resulting in some angry hateful "thing" or beast that is neither male or female.

Posting pictures of hot sexy women is not objectifying or degrading to women. It is glorifying them. Men have desires and are heterosexual. They like beautiful women. Why do you condemn that? If you like a beautiful rose, would I say that you are objectifying or degrading it? lol

Women are judged by their beauty, youth and femininity, while men are judged by their status and resources. That's the natural way that nature has made it. Who are you to challenge what's inherent and natural?

You are nothing but a deconstructionist and brainwashed liberal feminist who degrades all that is natural.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

So the onus is mostly on us, huh? No thanks. I would never take on another man's "baby's mama" and her child just to prove to myself that I am a man. We are not about being with women on women's terms, we are about being with them on mostly our terms.

You come across as well intentioned but a bit arrogant to know that you are being duped. The things you are doing are not in your interest but it will take many years for you to understand that.

[publicduende]

So the onus is mostly on us, huh? No thanks. I would never take on another man's "baby's mama" and her child just to prove to myself that I am a man. We are not about being with women on women's terms, we are about being with them on mostly our terms.

You come across as well intentioned but a bit arrogant to know that you are being duped. The things you are doing are not in your interest but it will take many years for you to understand that.

Contrarian, I don't understand: if he loves a woman who happens to have a child from a past relationship, and is fully reciprocated, where's the problem? Any man who loves his partner and is prepared to embrace his role of stepfather straight away sounds like being more, not less, of a man in my book.